How on earth is a picture of Jonas Gahr Støre shaking hands with a PLO-leader going to "rip up open wounds"...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Do you really think it's something that is kept secret...?
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How on earth is a picture of Jonas Gahr Støre shaking hands with a PLO-leader going to "rip up open wounds"...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Do you really think it's something that is kept secret...?
Well these camps on that island where that massacre took place was kinda creepy. And that is all I want to say about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
The Utøya camp won't stop because of what happened in 2011. That would be silly. Things at Utøya are back to normal, with things going on like they always have. Except for a ceremony on the 22nd, nothing has changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Because the best way to deal with terrorism is not to be terrorized and hence stiff upper lip and keep moving forward. Sure put in remembrances and worthwhile security measures. But otherwise pursue happiness and don't let the terrorists dictate your lifestyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Was kinda hinting at the group activities here, the people who visited. What happened in 2011 isn't creepy it's horrifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Full stop now
They do look a bit like Soviet "summer camps", but then I spent my summers learning how to kill people with machine guns - which is much more "creepy" in retrospect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Personally - I would tear the camp down and leave it fallow for a century - much better than the daft plan to cut a hole in a cliff.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
The group activities are the same now as they were before. As they should be. Political debates, lectures, playtime and invited guests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
It's a lot less creepy than you think it is, and that may be because you'v never attended one. Basically it's a week's gathering with the people you work with on a daily basis the rest of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Do not forget that the majority of the attendants are active politicians, several of them elected members of local governments. It's not a random bunch of kids who gets indoctrinated, it's a teambuilding excercise for young professionals.
The hole is actually not on the island, it's on the mainland. Further, it is the express wish of the survivors to continue the camp as normal. It would be a lot dafter to disregard the opinions of the survivors IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Fair enough I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
And again the ceasefire is broken by the Palestinians. Just like every other time. A ceasefire is nothing more than just enough time to get more rockets.
Hey I can make this post again. Once again the need to kill was too strong, ceasefire once again broken by people with culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
They are both conflict-soaked cultures. When personal identity is defined, in part, by your being an enemy of "those people," it is difficult to parse the particulars and generate meaningful agreements.
Fragony do the Jewish people not have culture?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Name the largest terrorist attack in Israel/Palestine.
Worst is probably the schoolbusQuote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
But again 200 missiles fired yesterday
91 people were killed in the biggest terrorist attack in Israel/Palestine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Could be, but attacking a schoolbus is sooooo cynicalQuote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
And there is that redefinition of boundaries to excuse one side and make one side look bad and the other good. BTW Frag, what do you think Israel will look like if all the leftists, ie. liberals and socialists, moved out of there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
That is a completily valid point of course, but also something that can easily waved for being an distraction of what is really going on. Hamas does not want peace, how many peace-have been broken by now? 10 or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
And where's the evidence that Israel wants peace? Neither side wants peace. Both sides are as bad as each other, and if I had my way, anyone who goes anywhere near that region gets disowned by their native country, whether they be Muslim, Jewish, or Martian. But you're the one who keeps excusing Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
At least 10 offered cease-fires being broken is kinda an indication on who does whatQuote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
And the landgrab in the West Bank? AFAIK territorial disputes is the most common, and usually considered the most deserving, cause of war in history, with the people whose land is being taken considered to have an automatic right to expel the invader by whatever means possible. What is your opinion of the Israeli settlements in the West Bank? What are the rights of the West Bank Palestinian authorities wrt these settlements in your view?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Settlements should stop I'd say but the west bank isn't Gaza. Both are Israeli territory in my opinion but that's just my opinion, was taken in a war they never started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
You are correct that Gaza is not the west bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
The West Bank has kept at peace with Israel for years.
Gaza has been at war with Israel several times in the last years.
The results?
Tons of settlements in the West Bank.
No settlements in Gaza.
An interesting way of rewarding peace.
If we were talking about Israel in general that would be debatable. Gaza and the West bank, however, were grabbed in the six-day war which opened with an Israeli first strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I know it's unfair. But lets be honest the majority isn't even from there, mostly refugees from the civil war in Libanon. Not building settlements would be a courtisy I would apreciate.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I fully agree that the vast majority of the settlers are not from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I didn't know that, but it's hard to consider something a first strike when war has been declared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
So what. It's perfectly possible to have an opinion on Hamas without even thinking about the settlements. I don't like that either but worse things happen, not something I can get all that upset about when you think of what IS and Boko Haram are doing, why are we so upset about such a tiny conflict? And why is it so much more important?Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
ISIS has its own thread, you don't have to bring it up all the time. Boko Haram possibly deserves its own thread, but what's there to say about them? They're bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Do I bring up Isis all the time, really. Try finding it. Within context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053610515
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053607569
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053607483
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053607241
Summary: you think we should all stop criticizing Israel because we never talk about ISIS, which is worse.