The Way of the Samurai [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by Glenn

Also awaiting some sort of correspondence or order from pevergreen since I have only suspicions and he seems to have some intelligence of who is guilty and most worthy of the lynch.

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Todays lynch is either whatever is voted for, or you.

I want the strength claims people.

14 claims wanted. I have 9.

Better than I thought.

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

I think it's you, obviously, the request was rhetorical. :wink:

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And yet someone reading this thread knows precisely what I'm talking about because they were the one's who sent Diamondeye the message I referred to. :P

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My take on what happened: Diamondeye went to people to try and get a vig hit on me. It would take down a non Mafia (myself and the Mafia know this, you should too, but I don't expect your belief :shrug:). However, DE, for whatever reason (a good one is that he is Mafia or becoming Mafia or some other kind of badguy) pulled out. Then he went public that he knew that people wanted to kill me (probably mad that Yaro and Skooma didn't try and kill me, I had pretty tough defenses by the way :beam:). Perhaps so he can distract the town with the lynch of two more 'innocents' (I use that term in a very specific sense in respect to pever; frankly, I hope both Yaro and Skooma die before the game ends, they were willing to kill me, that is reason enough).

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You know, Pizza and pever had theorised that of the two mafia, one might have a low strength value as a twist; DE would certainly fit in with such a theory, by setting up two townies for the lynch rather than taking the risk to fight them and possibly lose.

It's like the WIFOM guy in The Princess Bride; why fight with a sword when your wit and cunning are much sharper?

Beskar is being pretty quiet.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Beskar is being pretty quiet.

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I like it though. Let's make it even better tonight? :idea2:

Orders start tonight.

But yes, those that don't claim will be killed.

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

My take on what happened: Diamondeye went to people to try and get a vig hit on me. It would take down a non Mafia (myself and the Mafia know this, you should too, but I don't expect your belief :shrug:). However, DE, for whatever reason (a good one is that he is Mafia or becoming Mafia or some other kind of badguy) pulled out. Then he went public that he knew that people wanted to kill me (probably mad that Yaro and Skooma didn't try and kill me, I had pretty tough defenses by the way :beam:). Perhaps so he can distract the town with the lynch of two more 'innocents' (I use that term in a very specific sense in respect to pever; frankly, I hope both Yaro and Skooma die before the game ends, they were willing to kill me, that is reason enough).

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Just putting a second explanation up here for later when everyone knows it's the absolute truth...

Diamondeye is extremely annoyed at the way pevergreen and Reenk are running the show, and is briefly overcome with loathe for it after reading the RR-Secura debate. He posts a "If I could vote RR twice I would" and sens Secura a PM which says "should we try a vig hit on RR?". Then, he runs off and when he returns to the game, he's over his annoyment and realizes that as a good townie, we have to behave in accord with peverNaritsugu's whims. To Skooma Addict's awfully vague suggestion that there might be a vig group on RR, he answers as follows...

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You can expand upon what this includes without revealing the identities of your compatriots. I am not certain what I will choose.

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Since Skooma's PM strongly suggests that he is not merely a vigilante (he calls the group a "band of outlaws"), I don't want to touch it, ever, as it would betray my victory condition. Instead, I stall him to win time.

Next time I log on, the night is over (I don't know this yet as I begin talks with pever). I see that I have a PM from Skooma, basically "it's just me an Yaro" (revealing your mate? Fine), and one from Yaropolk saying "So are we attacking RR or what?".

Here's the catch - pevergreen can confirm this part - I contact pevergreen and suggest that I agree with the two guys and then, secretly send in orders to defend RR instead, thus eliminating two threats in one swoop, instead of having to rat on them. But pevergreen says no, you'll follow orders, and besides, night is already over.

Diamondeye goes to threat and rats out the two scummymcscummies and is bandwagoned to death.

The end of this will prove me wrong. Now, farewell cruel world! Tell the geisha that I will miss them. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Romanic

:creep:

I feel like one of your favorite suspect in every game. Leave me alone Sasaki! I'm just a poor ghost! :laugh4:

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What about me :shame:

We should all be given a random, generic name at the beginning of each mafia game (If we could).

Politics and other similar byproducts of the human body are starting to ruin these games for me.

Some other forums use dedicated smurf accounts, so you can't tell who is who in the actual game.

But that just isnt how we play. :beam:

Secura: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post1673928

Before your time, but it makes my point.

Round ended. Commencing write up

Day 5 summery

When the votes were counted off, samurai Diamondeye had the most vote.
Handsome looking Samurai with pretty eyes was brought in front of Lord Naritsugu.

Lord Naritsugu looked happier then ever. Perhaps he has something for handsome men. Perhaps because the writer of this story is feeling happy and has the energy to write.

Lord Naritsugu hugged the handsome men with pretty eyes.
"DIAMONDEYE!" said Lord Naritsugu. "Oh men, you don't know whats going in my head right now."
"Ugh... Thank you my lord... for hugging me?"
"No problem... Now Diamondeye. Have I ever told you about your beautiful eyes?"
"No my lord."
"Its pretty. It reminds me of... Diamonds."
"Ah huh.."
"Diamonds are bad. It supports civil war, it supports child labour.. It supports bad working condition for the miners."
"Ah huh.."

"BUT BAD IS GOOD! Fair is foul, foul is fair! I love war! I love child labour! I love bad working condition and hungry peasants!"

Diamondeye raised his eyebrows and gently protested.
"With all due respect my lord as a samurai who live by the way of the sword I must disagree with that point of view. I use my sword to help people. Not for violence or for fear."

Now it was Lord Naritsugus turn to feel disgusted.
"What? Don't you think its fun to watch people cry and scream?"

"Frankly sire.. I do not."

"Hmm... Hmmmm.... HMMMM!!!" Lord Naritsugu drew his sword and sliced up unprepared Diamondeye.
Blood splattered all over Naritsugus body. He laughed hysterically as he decapitated Diamondeye.

While Diamondeye looked straight into Lord Naritsugus eyes as he was getting chopped up. Sadly. Full of humility.

Lord Naritsugu panted. And left, without watching the duel.

With out lord Naritsugus presence duel was practically pointless. But the two nominees stepped forward for the sake of their pride.

.................................................................................................... ...............


On one end there was Csargo. Or better known as Lord Naritsugus right hand man Kitou.
He sat down quietly and meditate to prepare for the coming battle.

On the other hand there was Yaropolk. Finally revealing his mysterious veil.
The soldier who like old stories shouted. "Is that... MUSASHI!!"
"Serious? We have Sasaki and we have Musashi as well?"
"MUSASHI SAN! MERRY ME MUSASHI SAN!!"
"NO SASAKI SAN IS BETTER!"
"NO WAY! MUSASHI SAN IS!"

One guy sitting in the corner.... Theres always at least one of these kind... Calmly commented
"You guys underestimate Kitou san. Look at his face."

Indeed Kitou kept on meditating calmly, while Musashi slowly took out his sword and checked his form.

The analyzing guy commented again.
"Musashi san in his best form is better then any samurai... Spare Kojiro san. Kitou san is good, but his not the best. But right now Kitou san has the chance. It looks as if Musashi san havn't been doing his work out recently. Lets see if he can beat his age."

So when Csargo finished the meditation and Musashi checked that he can actually move, two bowed to each other and started fighting. Two who knows the way of dueling started slowly. Testing each other with quick but weak strikes. Learning each others movement, the distance.. slight preference of the sword movement. The two took a step away from each other. Another step, then another. Then went at each other.

How Kitou moved was just as Musashi predicted. But unfortunately his body couldn't follow his orders.
Kitou noticing his victory withdrew his sword just before hitting him.

Musashi sighed and cursed his old body, while Kitou gained a very important experience.

Players 14/28
pevergreen
secura
Glenn
Yaropolk (Musashi!)
Beskar
Sasaki Kojiro (Playing as Sasaki Kojiro)
Seon
Skooma Addict
YLC
Reenk Roink
autolycus
slashandburn
Nightbringer
Csargo

Lynched 3/28
Romanic
Subotan
Diamondeye

Killed 11/28
Renata
Chaotix
robbiecon
Lord of Lent
Askthepizzaguy
God Emperor
Kagemusha
Chimpyang
Cecil XIX
Captain Blackadder
Classical Hero

Start Night 5

Night ending in 24 hours from now. Anything after the dead line won't be accepted

This game is completely devoid of all reason. Which is why it is so entertaining.

All we need now is ninjas flipping out and killing people randomly for no reason, but with great care and precision.

Every player has their orders.

If you don't carry them out, it is assumed you are anti town.

If you all follow orders, only one person will die tonight, and that person did not send a strength claim in.

I'm out :bow: Hopes the innocents have the brain to get rid of Yaro. Good wind!

Round ended. Commencing write up

Night 5 summery

Most of the soldiers moved according to Lord Naritsugus orders. Most of them knew that the whole thing was a joke. But they had to do it properly.

"So I attack you first yea?"

"No no.. I attack him first then you come."

"Ah I see."

So Secura playfully chased around Besky, who was chasing Seon (shouting Ginga Shonen!) who was chasing Reenk Roink with a spear, who was chasing Secura.

Them running around in circle was a cheerful sight to watch.

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Meanwhile, Csargo or Kitou san was meditating.
Meditating won't make him any stronger, but Csargo thought otherwise.
Maybe... Just maybe he could learn the force some how by meditating.

Csargo was disrupted by two men.

"Master Kitou. Well met."

Master sword man was standing in front of Kitou, with his partner beside him.

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201011/11...13_9293290.jpg

"So you are the man we've been looking for." said Kitou. Looking straight at the man. "I can't say I didn't expect it."
"I have a lot of respect for you Kitou san. You seem to be a very brave samurai who live by the way of the sword. You'll understand why we are rebelling against Lord Naritsugu. Lord Naritsugu is a brutal lord, who wants nothing but chaos and anarchy from the world. Imagine the horror, the agony, imaging the collapsed world if Lord Naritsugu takes over the role of Shogun. Peace. Prosperity that all the previous Shogun has built will shatter. Lord Naritsugu must be stopped."

Kitou shook his head and replied. "That may be so. But Lord Naritsugu is my lord nonetheless. And it is Samurais duty to serve the lord."

The attacker sighed. "It seems your alignment won't change. It must end this way."
He unsheathed his sword and pointed straight at Kitou.

The two samurais charged at each other. The two were completely equal. But the advantage of having two were slowly taking its effect. Kitou san found him self on a defensive end.

It seemed that his fate was sealed. When suddenly another two figure appeared. This time to help out Kitou san.
One was Skooma Addict. He took on the other attacker, Glenn. While Sasaki Kojiro took on the master swordsman autolycus.

Now it was three vs two. Autolycus and Glenn knew there was no victory in this battle. But they fought bravely none the less. Slice thy opponent. May it be friends or men you respect. If they stand in your way it is your enemy. The deed must be completed. Lord Naritsugu must be slain. No sword then punch to kill. No arm then kick to kill. No legs then bite to kill. Even if your life and soul is completely lost, make them step on your bones to help your allies complete your deeds.

Glenn was the first to go. Despite being just as strong as Skooma was, he fought outstandingly well, actually managing to injure Skooma.

Autolycus took on three for quite a long time, but eventually he fell.
On his last moment.. He cried.

.................................................................................................... .........................................

"All rebels are slain my lord. Upon searching the room of the criminal, autolycus we found out that Lord of Lent was also part of this crime. Glenn must have joined later. We have few more weeks until we take off to the trip, so we must be cautious for the possible second raid."

"Again Kitou." said Lord Naritsugu, gently smiling.

"What sir?"

"We must do this agian. So this is war! This is the battle of life and death! This is great! This is great! When I become Shogun I will rage war on every single rebelious country warlords who refuse my orders. Its going to be fun Kitou! Its going to be fun!"

For the first time, Kitou couldn't stop him self.

Slap.

Kitous right hand slapped Lord Naritsugu in the head.

Lord Naritsugu astonished. Soon raged.
Kitou sighed and prepared to cut his stomach open.

.................................................................................................... ......................

"Never thought I'll see you again Kojiro" smiled Musashi.
"God must have some sense of humour. I mean, letting us meet each other again."
"Wonder whos stronger? right now" said Kojiro.

Musashi laughed and said "you probably. Your the man of the hour."

Slashandburn jumped in and hugged them both. "Hey don't forget me!!"

Kojiro and Musashi laughed and headed back to the party.

The end

This is why you should listen to me.

Basic plan was to force everyone to appear in the writeup, bar enough protection on me to withstand a strength 10 attack (plus my strength 1, would equal at least 3 attackers).

Glenn, Skooma, YLC and Csargo did not claim.

Csargo was my right hand man, I knew him to be innocent from the start. I was meant to be able to choose, but Beefy forgot, so Reenk wasn't Kitou.

Since Glenn didn't claim, I got Skooma and YLC (other non claimers) to attack him. Any of their deaths would have been fine. I'm particulary happy with Glenn's though.

Sasaki was tasked with attacking autolycus, who had claimed strength 5. From that, and knowing that the only things that high would be special roles or mafia, I used Sasaki-san to attack him. Sasaki being basically confirmed pro town.

Good call on that Lord of Lent lead, Sasaki. It was my pleasure to put him to the sword.

Well done, team. :bow:

Oh yeah, and how come Sasaki was so strong? He ate pizza for breakfast on the first round. Yeah, that's right. It's all about me. /sarcasm. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

This is why you should listen to me.

Basic plan was to force everyone to appear in the writeup, bar enough protection on me to withstand a strength 10 attack (plus my strength 1, would equal at least 3 attackers).

Glenn, Skooma, YLC and Csargo did not claim.

Csargo was my right hand man, I knew him to be innocent from the start. I was meant to be able to choose, but Beefy forgot, so Reenk wasn't Kitou.

Since Glenn didn't claim, I got Skooma and YLC (other non claimers) to attack him. Any of their deaths would have been fine. I'm particulary happy with Glenn's though.

Sasaki was tasked with attacking autolycus, who had claimed strength 5. From that, and knowing that the only things that high would be special roles or mafia, I used Sasaki-san to attack him. Sasaki being basically confirmed pro town.

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Hey pever, what did the five fingers say to the face?


SLAP. hahahaha

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Originally Posted by Csargo

Hey pever, what did the five fingers say to the face?


SLAP. hahahaha

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:laugh4:

You realise you're dead, right?

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Kitou (Csargo) your right hand man is confident that couple rebellious Samurais are after your head. Finally its getting fun. Though Kitou is planning to get you out of Aki as soon as possible and assimilate the position of Shogun fast, you won't get satisfied unless those man who oppose you dies.

Major Victory: Two Original mafia dies and survive 15 night phases
Minor defeat: Failure to have both mafia dead
Major defeat: Death.
Ability:
Your identity will be announced at the start of the game
You may change the lynchee on your own will. This can be done by sending a pm during the day and your choice will outweigh all the votes.
Also you get to choose the duelists
Csargo will help you win. You can trust him

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Even though he was meant to be my right hand man in organising the town, we never spoke. No contact whatsoever.

Did anyone think that I was confined to posting smilies? :beam:

Sasaki, Slashandburn, Yaropolk was our three ronins. They were neutral with defensive abilities, they could choose alignment if they wanted to. They started with 3 strength points. Sasaki and Yaropolk getting that role was pure luck. It would've been awesome if they did the duel too.

Chimpyang I believe also started with 3, Kitou with 4 and autolycus with 5.
Lord of Lent had 2 to start with. He had the ability to post anonymous messages, check out faction strength balance each night, investigate players alignment etc.

I was hoping for a fairly balanced game, but it ended in a confident victory for townies so I should've made the mafia a bit stronger. Lord of Lent lynch early on was a bit unfortunate.. He could've spreaded paranoia everywhere.

It didn't work out as well as I wanted to, but I hope you enjoyed the game. If not... Ostracism is starting any minute now and that is going to be my revenge game :D

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

:laugh4:

You realise you're dead, right?

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Worth it.

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Even though he was meant to be my right hand man in organising the town, we never spoke. No contact whatsoever.

Did anyone think that I was confined to posting smilies? :beam:

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I didn't realise my role until RR PMed me the last day phase. I looked back at my role PM and figured out my mistake. After that it was pointless since you already had your plan in motion. Forgive me :bow:

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Originally Posted by Csargo

I didn't realise my role until RR PMed me the last day phase.

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Classic Csargo.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Good call on that Lord of Lent lead, Sasaki. It was my pleasure to put him to the sword.

Well done, team. :bow:

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I love how the vigilante attacks actually turned up a mafioso. :P

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Originally Posted by Secura

My gut reaction when I'd seen that Kagemusha had died was that it was specifically a mafia attack to keep Pizza out of the game; if my source regarding the killer is correct, then it was definitely autolycus. Bit of a low move no matter who it is, though.

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Someone was really scared of Pizza, huh? :laugh4:

My hat goes off to Chimpyang for confirming my suspicions about autolycus and stating he'd be keeping a close eye on him (though I still haven't solved your second cryptic message!) and to Beskar for bringing forward the information about auto's attack against Kage, which at least gave us some suspicions to work on; had pever allowed to attacks to continue, he would most certainly have been a target... so, good call on both counts, gents! :3

And of course, because failing to mention Naritsugu would mean execution... a good job by pevergreen! :P

I suppose that now the game's over, I can reveal some things that went on behind the scenes?

Mechanics question/ small complaint.

"Night action: All players are given the option to protect or to kill. They don't have to coordinate the attacks or protection. It will be automatically calculated. If town member does not send in their order, they will automatically protect Matsudaira Naritsugu.

If the strength of attack is below the victim and its protectors attackers will die and vice versa. If the strength of both faction is equal, no one dies. "
So the three attack sets are me and Glenn vs. Csargo, Skooma and YLC vs. Glen, and Sasaki vs. me.
Those rules say to me that Csargo and Glenn should each fall to their attackers, and I should stave off Sasaki.
If what you meant was that that all orders involving a person would stack, rather than "all attacks on a person stack" and "all defenses on a person stack", you should have said so, because that changes strategy. :(

With LoL's early death, though, my team was in big trouble. LoL got strength tallies of our team, so through duels, we could confirm if someone had converted. Without that, we had no way of identifying converts. Just out of curiosity, how many of you would have flipped and charged with me if I'd just claimed and declared a charge last night, and how many would have protected pever.


Here's the QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/WrfTypWPmYJ

I dont know if YLC sent in orders. I think since you were attacking Csargo, maybe his strength was added.

Or maybe beefy realised that it would have taken at most I could have ID'd you in another 2 nights.

Beefy: The game was good, but my tactic combined with my role made the town unbeatable.

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Originally Posted by Beefy187

Sasaki, Slashandburn, Yaropolk was our three ronins. They were neutral with defensive abilities, they could choose alignment if they wanted to. They started with 3 strength points. Sasaki and Yaropolk getting that role was pure luck. It would've been awesome if they did the duel too.

Chimpyang I believe also started with 3, Kitou with 4 and autolycus with 5.
Lord of Lent had 2 to start with. He had the ability to post anonymous messages, check out faction strength balance each night, investigate players alignment etc.

I was hoping for a fairly balanced game, but it ended in a confident victory for townies so I should've made the mafia a bit stronger. Lord of Lent lynch early on was a bit unfortunate.. He could've spreaded paranoia everywhere.

It didn't work out as well as I wanted to, but I hope you enjoyed the game. If not... Ostracism is starting any minute now and that is going to be my revenge game :D

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Beefster - I already deleted my role PM, but I don't recall having any defensive abilities in there.

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

I dont know if YLC sent in orders. I think since you were attacking Csargo, maybe his strength was added.

Or maybe beefy realised that it would have taken at most I could have ID'd you in another 2 nights.

Beefy: The game was good, but my tactic combined with my role made the town unbeatable.

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Only if I kept ignoring your orders, which I wouldn't have. Csargo had to die, because it was obvious he was permanent innocent. I was planning on waiting one or two more days, then claiming in thread at night and hoping other people had flipped during that time. What was your strength, and how would you have id'd me if after csargo's death I followed your orders to the letter until the night I struck?

hah, LoL was mafia and there was mafia in that vig group night 1! Of course I had privileged information on that since I'd killed robbiecon that night.

I was a pure survivor which is pretty neutral, I figured I would kill people off for no reason because it made it more likely for me to survive.

I had a 1-shot lynch immunity, would have killed one person on the wagon too.

I missed sending in a kill the night classical died, but I would have killed classical sooo...

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Just out of curiosity, how many of you would have flipped and charged with me if I'd just claimed and declared a charge last night, and how many would have protected pever.

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I would have, had plans about it since I dislike these breaking strategy things. I'd hoped diamondeye would get some people together to kill reenk and that there would be enough vig groups out to weaken pever's protection.

But it sounds like pever was almost unguarded last night? Hmm?

Actually, I was about to send in orders to protect yaropolk last night figuring that would screw up the pever plan. But then I saw that auto was calling for role claims from everyone in council, and had refused here, so I figured I get a chance to fight a mafioso one on one.

I'd like to offer some post-game thoughts on vigilantism and its value to the town.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

During the game, a number of people were not enthusiastic about the vig killings, even members of the vig squad itself. The thought I kept bumping into was that town really shouldn't be assisting the mafia in destroying townies, or townies felt uncomfortable about taking matters into their own hands.

The sentiment is nice, but lynches are basically the same thing, except more democratic. Meaning more susceptible to mafia changing the votes to make it a bad lynch, or people giving bad arguments to switch the lynch to someone innocent. Because of town's divided nature, it's easy for lynches to go wrong. Still, it is usually the town's best weapon.

If a town neither lynched nor performed any vig kills, every death would likely be a mafia killing a townie. A 100% chance of innocents dying. If a town lynches, as they should, not every death is guaranteed to be an innocent, and that is usually how you must win. Still, the mafia ALWAYS have a say in who gets lynched, so it is more inaccurate.

Vigilante killings, when directed by mafia, will be highly likely to hit townies. However, a townie knows he is innocent, and a basic townie is willing to die for the good of the team. If even a basic townie takes the initiative and decides on vigilante deaths, that means there is in fact a chance of mafia dying, and there is less chance of the mafia overturning such an action. They either have to direct the vig killings themselves (high risk), convince the director to attack someone (still risky) or directly sabotage the group attack itself (very risky and could involve too much mafia manpower). I would argue that vigilante killings, when used properly, are town's most effective weapon besides investigations and roleblocks. In some cases, more effective, since investigations can be false, and roleblocks might hit an inactive mafioso, and in such a case, they don't prove anything.

Death is of course the best proof of innocence, and if not innocence, at least not being a threat anymore. Life is quite absurd, and death's the final word, you know.

In this game I admit there was room for other options; the defensive strategy pever and I believe Reenk advocated was actually quite impressive and a good refutation of the idea that vigilantism was the way to go. It could be done without it, in this game. I don't believe that will usually be the case, but it works here, very well it seems.

This goes right along with my recent attitude change towards serial killers; if discovered early, they can be forced vigilantes, acting under town's will, and they can be destroyed at any point in the middle to late middlegame. If they follow orders, they become a huge threat to the mafia, and might take some of them down, or get killed by the mafia. It really does kill two birds with one stone, or in some cases, three... But they are still an endgame threat and have to die before then.

If there is a game with a serial killer and a vigilante, coordinating their attacks and having known townies direct those attacks is almost game-breaking. Here, multiple vig kills were not only possible, they happened regularly. It obliterates mafia very quickly, with good odds of success. In the CoV game, there were many moments in the game where there was a known serial killer and a known vigilante running around somewhere, and the effect of using both under town direction would have been absolutely devastating, and it was in several cases.

Town ends up having more voting members, more bodies, and more kills than the mafia itself, and the mafia ends up being forced to whack the serial killer, the vigilantes, the doctors protecting them perhaps, and they only have so many rounds to do it before they get killed themselves. Vigilantism is not something a serious town should shy away from.

In case it interests anyone:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Okay, I predict that Subotan will die for the lynch.

You're stuck on Lord of Lent, and although I usually detest focusing on newer players so early, because I find it advantageous to get a baseline reading of their mafia or townie play, in this circumstance 2 rounds will have passed so he had a chance to play.

Additionally I know nothing about Lord of Lent, strength or whatever. I could vig him and no one would know other than the vigs, yourself, and pevergreen.

Seeing as there seem to be no objections, and there are a lot of people involved, I'll count that as having some sort of democratic/town consensus. If it's a bad move, at least it was as a result of town attempting to win. I prefer to lose through trying to win, rather than from apathy.

This way you'll have someone to vote for besides LoL tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

him dying by lynch and us vigging LoL is just as cool with me.

I'm far from sold on LoL but it's like having 8910J in poker, you just go for the straight no questions asked.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Since subo was scum, I don't want to kill LoL. I doubt scum so much as fos'd each other with only two of them. We can provisionally put all of subotan's vote choices and everyone who voted him on a no-vig list.

Haven't looked through it yet to see who I'd like to go after, maybe there isn't any strong candidate.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Wait, Subotan was scum? In what way was he scum?

Please direct me to the post which says so. I read his death, I didn't see any outward indication...

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Ehhh, I remember him saying a few things that sound like a confession.

And that bit where he was tied for the lead and said "diamondeye, you'll die unless you vote for slash".

And complaining about there "wasn't really any evidence".

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

All could be townie things to say.

I've already sent the orders to everyone regarding Lord of lent. Unfortunately such a massive coordination effort does not allow for nimble changes on the fly based on snap decisions.

This stuff has to be decided during the day phases. This is basically like Capo, where everything had to be decided before the lynch was even happening, or else, guaranteed, I'd be missing at least 3-4 people.

There is no reason currently not to suspect Lord of Lent, correct? As such he's as viable a vig as any.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Ah, killing lord of lent is fine, sure. That can't be called back what with attackers ending up dead.

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Anyway. When used properly, vigilantes, serial killers, and the lynch can allow up to 3 deaths per day to be directed by known townies. If more deaths are caused by townies, the odds of successfully destroying mafia increases by quite a bit. If more deaths are caused by mafia kills, every one of those deaths will be wrong. Although there will be fluke circumstances where the town will miss them all completely, the odds are just stacked against that happening, especially if a little thought is put into who dies and why.

That kind of pressure also causes the mafia to focus on whacking the vig and the SK, possibly leaving investigators and doctors alive, especially if the vig and/or the SK have claimed. It just adds up to a nightmare for the mafia. With detectives, you can use the pre-emptive counter claim, the post-claim counter claim, or just bluff and suggest they're an insane or naive detective, to some effect sometimes. Roleblockers, the solution is simple, you randomly decide not to kill on certain nights, and that causes the blocker to think he's blocked a mafia when he likely has not. There are possibilities of enduring such roles, but vigilantism is something that you can't really argue against, can't really bluff away, and being inactive doesn't solve. It is the best weapon townies have, double edged sword though it might be.

There are some instances where it shouldn't be used. In the Star Wars game I hosted, for example, the longer everyone lived, the more powerful the town became in comparison to the mafia. Letting people live, or even attacking defended people on purpose, to prolong the game, were better options. But in general, vigilantism truly is the way to go.

/end rant.