Puberty at 13, sex at 18?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well, the thing is, what you believe doesn't really matter, we still cannot punish two 13-year olds for doing each other, that would be madness.

---

It happens though. There is even a 9 year old sex offender who had sex with a 7 year old girl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

It happens though. There is even a 9 year old sex offender boy who had sex with a 7 year old girl.

---

Seriously. Branding him as a sex offender? Is that really necessary. I doubt either of them knew what was actually happening.

If another Aussie would be kind enough to clear it up, if minors have sex here and they are within a certain age range (2 or so years) of each other isn't it considered "ok"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

This right here. Just because a 13-14 year old girl might be capable of having sex and thinking she's in love and all that does not mean she's of sound enough mind to make the right decisions. Until you're an adult, and have lived and worked in the real world and dealt with real-world responsibilities, you just don't have the mental background needed to be capable of these decisions. Not to say that's always true, but it's true enough.

---

Just make sure they use protection, what responsibility do they have? Go to school, do you best, enjoy the rest no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

This right here. Just because a 13-14 year old girl might be capable of having sex and thinking she's in love and all that does not mean she's of sound enough mind to make the right decisions. Until you're an adult, and have lived and worked in the real world and dealt with real-world responsibilities, you just don't have the mental background needed to be capable of these decisions. Not to say that's always true, but it's true enough.

---

Like they said in American Pie:

It's not a space shuttle launch. It's just sex.

If both kids are roughly the same age, I have no problems. At all. Sex isn't dangerous or forbidden, sex is positive and good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Yeah, it's all fun and games 'till someone gets pregnant. :oops:

Lots of teenagers who have sex are not stupid, and use protection, and it's all well and good. Honestly as long as the education regarding protection and STDs are in place, minors having sex with minors is hardly a problem.

The problem is with young'uns (13, 14, 15, whatever) having sex with adults. This is sheer irresponsibility on part of the adult, because he/she should know, with absolutely no uncertainty, that the teenager in question is hardly on the same mental wavelength.

---

:2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

If another Aussie would be kind enough to clear it up, if minors have sex here and they are within a certain age range (2 or so years) of each other isn't it considered "ok"?

---

As with most things, the laws are all over the shop in australia. ACT allows it if both are above 10 and within 2 years of each other, but in NSW it is illegal for 2 kids under 16 to have sex. Wiki article

So, I'm the only one who thinks there might be an age when parents should protect their children from making difficult decisions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Seriously. Branding him as a sex offender? Is that really necessary. I doubt either of them knew what was actually happening.

---

He is on the sex offenders register. I think he was accused of raping her as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

So, I'm the only one who thinks there might be an age when parents should protect their children from making difficult decisions?

---

Sounds like it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

So, I'm the only one who thinks there might be an age when parents should protect their children from making difficult decisions?

---

It's difficult to make a meaningful cut off point though. The examples I gave in my earlier post were to show that you can't really pin an age on these sorts of things, some people will just mature quicker than others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I still think 13 is defniately too young, I'm pretty sure Rory will tell you the decision making part of the brain is pretty under-developed at that age.

---

In Estonia 14 year old girls can have sex with who ever they want and how much they want.
But whether they understand all the consequences of their actions is another story.

There are unfortunately many under 18 year old girls who have kids because they slept with someone without using protection just because the guy didn't want to use it or because they were afraid being dumped if they don't have sex. :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Seriously. Branding him as a sex offender? Is that really necessary. I doubt either of them knew what was actually happening.

If another Aussie would be kind enough to clear it up, if minors have sex here and they are within a certain age range (2 or so years) of each other isn't it considered "ok"?

---

Varies from state to state like miotas said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miotas

As with most things, the laws are all over the shop in australia. ACT allows it if both are above 10 and within 2 years of each other, but in NSW it is illegal for 2 kids under 16 to have sex. Wiki article

---

Yeah. 16 up here (apart from taking the back door, which is 18), but honestly, I had a kid confess to me two weeks ago how he started having sex at 13. With both genders.

Hes 15, he had a girlfrien, cheated on her 12 times in 2 months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

It's difficult to make a meaningful cut off point though. The examples I gave in my earlier post were to show that you can't really pin an age on these sorts of things, some people will just mature quicker than others.

---

Which is absolutely no reason to abdicate responsibility over the issue. I think 14 is, on average, too young and 18 too old, so 16 would seem fine to me. Below that age prosecutions for a small age gap shouldn't usually be brought, and often aren't in England and Wales.

Childhood used to a time when children were protected from having to make all the difficult and heart-rending decisions adults make. When to have sex can be about the most serious decision you ever take. If I have children I will probably tell them I don't think they should have sex before 18 because they probably aren't ready.

As a parent you have rights and responsibilities over your children. The responsibility of care should trump some vague libertarian idea of individuality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Which is absolutely no reason to abdicate responsibility over the issue. I think 14 is, on average, too young and 18 too old, so 16 would seem fine to me. Below that age prosecutions for a small age gap shouldn't usually be brought, and often aren't in England and Wales.

Childhood used to a time when children were protected from having to make all the difficult and heart-rending decisions adults make. When to have sex can be about the most serious decision you ever take. If I have children I will probably tell them I don't think they should have sex before 18 because they probably aren't ready.

As a parent you have rights and responsibilities over your children. The responsibility of care should trump some vague libertarian idea of individuality.

---

WHY IS NO ONE THINKING OF THE CHILDREN! IF WE DON'T CODDLE THEM HOW WILL THEY GROW UP PROPERLY WITHOUT A CLUE OF THE DIFFICULTY AND CHALLENGES OF REAL LIFE?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

WHY IS NO ONE THINKING OF THE CHILDREN! IF WE DON'T CODDLE THEM HOW WILL THEY GROW UP PROPERLY WITHOUT A CLUE OF THE DIFFICULTY AND CHALLENGES OF REAL LIFE?

---

This is the second time you've abused me in debate, please stop it.

Are you suggesting 2 year-olds be given the vote, or the right to choose their own medical treatment? Growing up is about be handed responsibility as you become able to manage it. I don't think the majority of people can handle the decision of what sort of sex-life to have before at least 14. Looking back, I certainly couldn't.

I don't think I knew what sex was at 14.

Girls were pretty though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

This is the second time you've abused me in debate, please stop it.

Are you suggesting 2 year-olds be given the vote, or the right to choose their own medical treatment. Growing up is about be handed responsibility as you become able to manage it. I don't think the majority of people can handle the decision of what sort of sex-life to have before at least 14. Looking back, I certainly couldn't.

---

You don't have the ability to grant or hold onto that responsibility for him. The child has that responsibility from the first day he hits puberty. There is absolutely no way you can ever stop a person from doing something with his/her own body. Laws, parents, nothing. What are you going to do, wrap that bubble packaging over his private area to physically prevent him from having sex?

EDIT: Also I did not realize you were the last person I had did that to. Sorry if you got the impression I am deliberately picking on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

You don't have the ability to grant or hold onto that responsibility for him. The child has that responsibility from the first day he hits puberty. There is absolutely no way you can ever stop a person from doing something with his/her own body. Laws, parents, nothing. What are you going to do, wrap that bubble packaging over his private area to physically prevent him from having sex?

EDIT: Also I did not realize you were the last person I had did that to. Sorry if you got the impression I am deliberately picking on you.

---

I hold that responsibility until he/she is an adult. As a parent I have Ward until either I surrender it or the Law compels me to do so. Until then their actions and welfare are my responsibility.

As far as I know, puberty is being hit early on due to all the chemicals in food as mentioned in Rhyfelwyr's earlier post . I can't tell ya how many times I was suprised to find out a girl was 13-14years old after asking when I was a bit younger (like 16-18). That is why we are seeing girls' bodies maturing earlier and man childs walking all over.

And just because they are physically ready does not mean they are mentally. A lot cannot tell the difference between what "love" and lust is at the ages they are having sex! In my opinion it falls onto the parents shoulders to teach their kids these things and prepare them for adulthood. Sex should be the least/last thing on their mind during the high school years.

As for the age limit, I'd personally move it to 18 or around the time they get out of high school at least. Not for the underage for having sex but for the sexual predetor types.

I think a few people are over-estimating this maturity that suddenly appears at age 16 (I'm gonna use the UK law). Adults are often just as unwise in their choices of sexual partners as minors, the fact that most of you get laid is testament to this. A 15-year old can have the emotional stability to deal with sex while some women can get to their mid-20s and still be bedding the same guys and complaining when they don't call.

Plus, there are occasions where girls can reach this magical age having not reached puberty. Should they be any more 'legal' than the under 16s that have?

However, it's too difficult to legislate things like this and a specific age-limit seems the only way to even nearly protect anyone, even if it is problematic.

I agree with the current laws on the books as far as minors engaged in intercourse. For many of the same reasons Craterus just mentioned.

Yes that may be true to a certain degree. I've seen it myself, but there are a lot of factors that are not taken into account; their parents' relationship(s), their friends if they allow themselves to be easily influenced, ect... It all adds up overtime and the same could be said for the youth. Instead of accepting that kids are going to be having sex and "maturing" around 16/18 (which is all absurb imho), they need to be taught otherwise and also maybe given a chance to mature if possible. It's not like I'm saying we can get them alll to stop, what I'm getting at is that the entire society needs to be educated in this regard and not just the kids/youth. I was taking a human sexuality class and a woman said she had no idea her 12 year old daughter was already on birth control pills. She found this out when she went to the doctors with her daughter, and the doctor did not even notify her otherwise. In of that is another problem altogether. Other girls in the class already had 2-3abortions or had kids at 16 and putting their life on hold to have the kid, yet, all were okay with that like it is normal!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I hold that responsibility until he/she is an adult. As a parent I have Ward until either I surrender it or the Law compels me to do so. Until then their actions and welfare are my responsibility.

---

I'm sorry to say but...you don't. It does not matter if legally you do have the power, it is a hollow authority because even the strictest parents when it comes to sex can't stop the teenager sneaking out or in for a fun time.

Don't get me wrong, it sucks for the parent, but realistically the parent has no ability to stop their teenager unless they bar the windows and lock the door every night. The only reasonable way for a good parent to act is educate, educate, educate their teenager and explain to them why they should not have it, going over all the dangers, what to do if they decide to have it and not to be afraid to come for help or advice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Which is absolutely no reason to abdicate responsibility over the issue. I think 14 is, on average, too young and 18 too old, so 16 would seem fine to me. Below that age prosecutions for a small age gap shouldn't usually be brought, and often aren't in England and Wales.

Childhood used to a time when children were protected from having to make all the difficult and heart-rending decisions adults make. When to have sex can be about the most serious decision you ever take. If I have children I will probably tell them I don't think they should have sex before 18 because they probably aren't ready.

As a parent you have rights and responsibilities over your children. The responsibility of care should trump some vague libertarian idea of individuality.

---

So.

I was one of them criminals(or sex offender?) who had sex before I turned 16.

Please, do explain what my exact punishment would be in your theocracy. And what the punishment would be for the woman I had sex with. She was roughly a month younger than me IIRC.

This reminds me, there is a cervical cancer caused by STD's, and they wanted to make it mandatory for 12 year old girls to have this vaccine against it and the soccer mom brigade got all up in arms, because it some how meant the government suggests their kids are having sex at the age of 12 (opposed to when it is the easiest early time for the government to do it)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Yeah, it's all fun and games 'till someone gets pregnant. :oops:

---

They don't get pregnant, we teach how to strap on rubber at a very early age and teenage pregnancy/teenage abortions are virtually non-existant. Might seem odd to you to teach 12 year olds stuff like that but it's the result that counts.

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/l...cle5208865.ece

Author got a little ahead of himself but in general it sums it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I'm sorry to say but...you don't. It does not matter if legally you do have the power, it is a hollow authority because even the strictest parents when it comes to sex can't stop the teenager sneaking out or in for a fun time.

Don't get me wrong, it sucks for the parent, but realistically the parent has no ability to stop their teenager unless they bar the windows and lock the door every night. The only reasonable way for a good parent to act is educate, educate, educate their teenager and explain to them why they should not have it, going over all the dangers, what to do if they decide to have it and not to be afraid to come for help or advice.

---

You can't completely stop them, but you can, and should, make it more difficult and punish them for sneaking out. Merely "Educate, Educate, Educate" doesn't work. You also have to instill a moral compass that encourages them to make careful choices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoreTore

So.

I was one of them criminals(or sex offender?) who had sex before I turned 16.

Please, do explain what my exact punishment would be in your theocracy. And what the punishment would be for the woman I had sex with. She was roughly a month younger than me IIRC.

---

None, if you read my post. Also, this has nothing to do with theocracy - not in the way you understand it, certainly.

On the other hand, if I felt you have manipulated and taken advantage of my daughter you'd have things other than the law to worry about.

I do not like the idea of parents having too much power over their children once they get into the teenage years.

In any case, I think educating people on this topic is overrated, the education system practically encourages us to have sex these days, and its left a clear legacy with teenage pregnancies here in the UK. As for me, my parents never said a word to me about it (thank the Lord) and guess what I never got anyone pregnant.

Parents should try to be a healthy influence for their children, but not control them. When I have children, I will just say, you can get married if you want when you turn 16, if not you know I don't approve of anything, but it's up to you. Hopefully I will raise them well so they will just be sensible (a solution often overlooked these days). But if they ever want an abortion then they're out my house. :whip:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

None, if you read my post. Also, this has nothing to do with theocracy - not in the way you understand it, certainly.

On the other hand, if I felt you have manipulated and taken advantage of my daughter you'd have things other than the law to worry about.

---

So....

You support minors having sex with each other then? What's all the fuzz about then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

In any case, I think educating people on this topic is overrated, the education system practically encourages us to have sex these days, and its left a clear legacy with teenage pregnancies here in the UK.

---

Alright, let's say that's true. With this in mind, please explain the situation in the Netherlands.

Sex should be encouraged. It's healthy and fun, what's not to like? We shouldn't be saying "don't have sex, but if you do, wear a condom", that's the wrong kind of education. The correct education is "feel free to have sex, and use a condom".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You can't completely stop them, but you can, and should, make it more difficult and punish them for sneaking out.

---

If you don't want them sneaking out make sure they don't have to, what do you prefer, some sleazy alley or the back of a car or the comfort and safety of their own bedrooms.