Conservation of Angular Momentum

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I suppose all of mine has been based on my own assumptions as well. It seems if what you say is true, we went from order to disorder and then are going back to order according to Evolution.

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perhaps and then maybe the big bang will repeat itself. Or maybe a giant pink hippo race will eat my brain and destroy everything we hold dear, it is all assumption at some point.

Kadagar

many scientists have faith. To be able to support an idea you must believe in it somewhat. if an experiment fails you must have some faith to re-do it.

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Originally Posted by Zain

And where did those gases come from drone?

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Gases are elements. I think the proposal is that the elements were formed from the energy to matter conversion (E=mc^2 works both ways) of the big bang. Matter becomes energy, energy becomes matter.

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Originally Posted by Zain

I would like to ask though. If I'm wrong, nothing happens. If I'm right, I'm doing great and you are not. Do you accept this risk?

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Unless your belief structure is wrong, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemns you to the hell of the extra-spicy marinara for your heresy. :smash:

Since you obviously aren't going to be swayed (I half suspect this whole thread to be a thinly disguised troll), let me ask this question: Why do you think that just because you believe the way you do leads you to paradise and not someone that believes differently? Should a believer that acts in contempt of his fellow man deserve heaven over an unenlightened schmuck that actually helps people?

^ he never said that we would burn in hell for it merely that he disagreed. Zain obviously harbors no malice towards us drone, he seems like he really wants to understand.


tribes that "article" is not in accepted scientific format. h obviously wrote it himself. as drone has pointed out there are mistakes in the post.

asking questions is fine but why cant he ask you one back?
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:


I dont agree with him but i am going to respect his beliefs as long as he respects mine. you are not allowing for either option to occur.

Zeroth Law If two thermodynamic systems are separately in thermal equilibrium with a third, they are also in thermal equilibrium with each other.

First Law The change in the internal energy of a closed thermodynamic system is equal to the sum of the amount of heat energy supplied to or removed from the system and the work done on or by the system.

Second Law The total entropy of any isolated thermodynamic system always increases over time, approaching a maximum value.

Third Law As a system asymptotically approaches absolute zero of temperature all processes virtually cease and the entropy of the system asymptotically approaches a minimum value; also stated as: "the entropy of all systems and of all states of a system is zero at absolute zero" or equivalently "it is impossible to reach the absolute zero of temperature by any finite number of processes".

Brownian motion first proof of Atoms

299,792,458 m/s speed of light

Facts


Belief God created man

Life did not come from nothing the very fact we have a universe to exist in gave evolution a vast amount of time to evolve a being that could live in said universe.

By the way evolution is not a consious thing like a god its a process.

Proved by the mistakes evolution makes along the way otherwise no animal would ever go extinct and no part of us we evolve would ever be faulty if a designer made us.

Go check out whale and giraffe biology you can see the many problems and vestigial elements both of these mammals have.

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Originally Posted by drone

Gases are elements. I think the proposal is that the elements were formed from the energy to matter conversion (E=mc^2 works both ways) of the big bang. Matter becomes energy, energy becomes matter.


Unless your belief structure is wrong, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster condemns you to the hell of the extra-spicy marinara for your heresy. :smash:

Since you obviously aren't going to be swayed (I half suspect this whole thread to be a thinly disguised troll), let me ask this question: Why do you think that just because you believe the way you do leads you to paradise and not someone that believes differently? Should a believer that acts in contempt of his fellow man deserve heaven over an unenlightened schmuck that actually helps people?

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Okay, but where did the matter and the energy come from in the beginning?

And I believe in my bible and my God because of the evidence on Earth (Oldest tree 4,300 years old. Largest Reef 4,200 years old. Petrafied trees standing between rock layers. Comets. Biblical aging of the earth being 2,300 years from Adam to Jesus plus 2000 years since then.)

The evidence lines up. If someone else believes in a God but does not see the evidence to back it then the evidence he does see should point him somewhere.

And that somewhere is to God.

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Originally Posted by Zain

I honestly am not read up enough to be able to contradict you. Which is why I wanted to have this thread.

I will do some research :bow:

I would like to ask though. If I'm wrong, nothing happens. If I'm right, I'm doing great and you are not. Do you accept this risk?

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You are operating under a missaprehension based on the belief that understanding the origin of the scriptures automatically makes one an atheist. Most Theologians are religious, and they will happily tell you everything I just did.

After all, why would you have faith in an anthology compiled by blind scribes and priests of unknown virtue when you could just have faith in God?

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Originally Posted by Zain

Okay, but where did the matter and the energy come from in the beginning?

And I believe in my bible and my God because of the evidence on Earth (Oldest tree 4,300 years old. Largest Reef 4,200 years old. Petrafied trees standing between rock layers. Comets. Biblical aging of the earth being 2,300 years from Adam to Jesus plus 2000 years since then.)

The evidence lines up. If someone else believes in a God but does not see the evidence to back it then the evidence he does see should point him somewhere.

And that somewhere is to God.

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Oldest rocks Four Billion Years Old

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I want to learn and speak to others of their beliefs and observations.

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Thats fine.
So when you write

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So you propose there are errors in my bible?

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it raises the real question of you having any real knowledge at all of the books which you claim are the truth and which you are basing your arguements on.
Combining that lack of knowledge of scripture with a seeming lack of knowledge about the basics of the sciences you wish to dispute does not make for a good proposal for wanting to learn especially when you start off by claiming you already know the truth of the issue as it is in a book which you demonstrate you don't understand.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Zeroth Law If two thermodynamic systems are separately in thermal equilibrium with a third, they are also in thermal equilibrium with each other.

First Law The change in the internal energy of a closed thermodynamic system is equal to the sum of the amount of heat energy supplied to or removed from the system and the work done on or by the system.

Second Law The total entropy of any isolated thermodynamic system always increases over time, approaching a maximum value.

Third Law As a system asymptotically approaches absolute zero of temperature all processes virtually cease and the entropy of the system asymptotically approaches a minimum value; also stated as: "the entropy of all systems and of all states of a system is zero at absolute zero" or equivalently "it is impossible to reach the absolute zero of temperature by any finite number of processes".

Brownian motion first proof of Atoms

299,792,458 m/s speed of light

Facts


Belief God created man

Life did not come from nothing the very fact we have a universe to exist in gave evolution a vast amount of time to evolve a being that could live in said universe.

By the way evolution is not a consious thing like a god its a process.

Proved by the mistakes evolution makes along the way otherwise no animal would ever go extinct and no part of us we evolve would ever be faulty if a designer made us.

Go check out whale and giraffe biology you can see the many problems and vestigial elements both of these mammals have.

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Are you a believer? If you are, then believing in Evolution is a contradiction because death before sin by Adam never happened.

If you're not, then I respect your opinion. Although if a designer made a perfect being there would be no need for faith because we would be our own God. We wouldn't need him if we were perfect.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Thats fine.
So when you write

it raises the real question of you having any real knowledge at all of the books which you claim are the truth and which you are basing your arguements on.
Combining that lack of knowledge of scripture with a seeming lack of knowledge about the basics of the sciences you wish to dispute does not make for a good proposal for wanting to learn especially when you start off by claiming you already know the truth of the issue as it is in a book which you demonstrate you don't understand.

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I never based this argument off of any books.

I based it off of laws of science and mere observations.

I understand my bible fine. I'm not a scholar though, and never claimed to be.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I do not propose, I know. I've read it, and it most certainly was not dictated by God direct to the hands of the scribe.

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Weren't the gospels originally written in English? Sure, there may have been errors introduced when it was translated into Greek, since Greek misses many of the nuances of the English language, but we can always refer back to the original King James version.

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Originally Posted by Zain

Are you a believer? If you are, then believing in Evolution is a contradiction because death before sin by Adam never happened.

If you're not, then I respect your opinion. Although if a designer made a perfect being there would be no need for faith because we would be our own God. We wouldn't need him if we were perfect.

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I have read the entire bible several times and there is no mention that evolution is wrong in it ever. There is no mention that to believe in evolution will dam me to hell.

The bible states nowhere that it requires you to believe god created the universe it only states you must believe in god and not to believe in other gods like Thor or Bhaal.

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Originally Posted by Centurion1

^ he never said that we would burn in hell for it merely that he disagreed. Zain obviously harbors no malice towards us drone, he seems like he really wants to understand.

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Then what is this supposed to mean?

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Originally Posted by Zain

If I'm right, I'm doing great and you are not.

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No malice, I agree, but that viewpoint is very dangerous.

He has every right to his own beliefs. But if he is going to use religious belief on it's own to attack the scientific method, he opens himself up to the deluge. Science is not about belief, as much as he tries to state it.

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Originally Posted by Zain

Okay, but where did the matter and the energy come from in the beginning?

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No idea, I'm not read up on the Big Bang to remember that one. IANAP.

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Originally Posted by Zain

And I believe in my bible and my God because of the evidence on Earth (Oldest tree 4,300 years old. Largest Reef 4,200 years old. Petrafied trees standing between rock layers. Comets. Biblical aging of the earth being 2,300 years from Adam to Jesus plus 2000 years since then.)

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I know your location says Texas and all, but now it's obvious this is a troll thread. [billhicks]Fossils? My god is a prankster god![\billhicks]

I'll let PVC ruin your perception of the perfect Bible, he knows way more about it than I. Out b4 teh lock...

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Originally Posted by Zain

Okay, but where did the matter and the energy come from in the beginning?

And I believe in my bible and my God because of the evidence on Earth (Oldest tree 4,300 years old. Largest Reef 4,200 years old. Petrafied trees standing between rock layers. Comets. Biblical aging of the earth being 2,300 years from Adam to Jesus plus 2000 years since then.)

The evidence lines up. If someone else believes in a God but does not see the evidence to back it then the evidence he does see should point him somewhere.

And that somewhere is to God.

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Wow, that's kind of scarry.

The way some human beings create their own alternate reality to support their beliefs against all odds is both amazing and terryfying.

If I were bothered to write a thesis, that would be my topic.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Weren't the gospels originally written in English? Sure, there may have been errors introduced when it was translated into Greek, since Greek misses many of the nuances of the English language, but we can always refer back to the original King James version.

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The King James was translated from the original Hebrew. I take the King James as the word of God and do not entirely trust the other translations.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

I have read the entire bible several times and there is no mention that evolution is wrong in it ever. There is no mention that to believe in evolution will dam me to hell.

The bible states nowhere that it requires you to believe god created the universe it only states you must believe in god and not to believe in other gods like Thor or Bhaal.

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He also says believe in his word and in his word Genesis 1 describes everything.

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Originally Posted by Zain

The King James was translated from the original Hebrew.

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:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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Originally Posted by drone

Then what is this supposed to mean?

No malice, I agree, but that viewpoint is very dangerous.

He has every right to his own beliefs. But if he is going to use religious belief on it's own to attack the scientific method, he opens himself up to the deluge. Science is not about belief, as much as he tries to state it.

No idea, I'm not read up on the Big Bang to remember that one. IANAP.


I know your location says Texas and all, but now it's obvious this is a troll thread. [billhicks]Fossils? My god is a prankster god![\billhicks]

I'll let PVC ruin your perception of the perfect Bible, he knows way more about it than I. Out b4 teh lock...

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So when it comes down to it, the answer you don't know, you don't want to question. There are answers and to me its a very important question.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

Wow, that's kind of scarry.

The way some human beings create their own alternate reality to support their beliefs against all odds is both amazing and terryfying.

If I were bothered to write a thesis, that would be my topic.

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Please explain further instead of bashing my words. What do you believe?

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tribes that "article" is not in accepted scientific format. h obviously wrote it himself. as drone has pointed out there are mistakes in the post.

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That could be said of just about any "scientific" paper published by hovinds or many 'creation scientists.'

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

That could be said of just about any "scientific" paper published by hovinds or many 'creation scientists.'

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That can be said about any paper written by anybody. Even Darwin who's probably loving the attention his THEORY is getting.

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Originally Posted by Zain

He also says believe in his word and in his word Genesis 1 describes everything.

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Show me the verse were god said evolution is wrong and I dam you too hell for believing otherwise.

Gods laws are by his own words according to the bible in the Ten Commandments nowhere in the ten commandments am I asked to believe in Genesis.

In fact apart from the first commandment the other nine are perfectly acceptable to non believers.

Therefore am I dammed more than someone who fought in a war and killed someone even though they believed.

Anyway I am straying from the point here were talking about dynamics.

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Originally Posted by Zain

So when it comes down to it, the answer you don't know, you don't want to question. There are answers and to me its a very important question.

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I don't know, and nobody else knows either. But I do question. Did I ever say I trusted the big bang theory? Several times in this thread I have stated there are problems with it. It's a theory, not fact.

Edit->Mods must be asleep, this might get to 60. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Zain

The King James was translated from the original Hebrew. I take the King James as the word God and do not entirely trust the other translations.

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Well, that's not actually true, because many of the copy-texts they worked from were translations from Greek, not originals. No Hebrew or Aramaic originals exist for any of the books of the New Testemant either.

The King James translation suffers from bad copy-texts (we have much better ones now that were discovered in the last 100 years or so), it also suffers from bad methodology because it's a post-Medieval Humanistic work.

Also, it contradicts itself, so it CANNOT be the word of God, God never contradicts himself. Why haven't you checked the verses I cited yet, anyway?

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Show me the verse were god said evolution is wrong and I dam you too hell for believing otherwise.

Gods laws are by his own words according to the bible in the Ten Commandments nowhere in the ten commandments am I asked to believe in Genesis.

In fact apart from the first commandment the other nine are perfectly acceptable to non believers.

Therefore am I dammed more than someone who fought in a war and killed someone even though they believed.

Anyway I am straying from the point here were talking about dynamics.

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It does say that, when it says Adam brought death and sin into the world in the book of Romans. Evolution had millions of years of death so therefore the bible and Evolution conflict.

Back to subject, Where did the universe come from and how does it not break the first law of thermodynamics?

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Originally Posted by drone

I don't know, and nobody else knows either. But I do question. Did I ever say I trusted the big bang theory? Several times in this thread I have stated there are problems with it. It's a theory, not fact.

Edit->Mods must be asleep, this might get to 60. :thumbsup:

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Haha, I hope it doesnt get closed! :wall:

I believe that God made it. Its my answer. My "theory" answers that question. Cool huh? :smile:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Well, that's not actually true, because many of the copy-texts they worked from were translations from Greek, not originals. No Hebrew or Aramaic originals exist for any of the books of the New Testemant either.

The King James translation suffers from bad copy-texts (we have much better ones now that were discovered in the last 100 years or so), it also suffers from bad methodology because it's a post-Medieval Humanistic work.

Also, it contradicts itself, so it CANNOT be the word of God, God never contradicts himself. Why haven't you checked the verses I cited yet, anyway?

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Quite possibly John was a fisherman before or after he was a disciple of John the baptist? I haven't checked because I have been busy here on this thread.

The origin of the Bible matters. It's something I truly need to research. But the lack of religion has no instructions, how do you know you believe correctly without it?

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The King James was translated from the original Hebrew.

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OMG:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I really don't believe it :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
How on earth could anyone?????:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
bloody hell :dizzy2:

OK I have to leave this topic.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
creationists:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

OMG:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I really don't believe it :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
How on earth could anyone?????:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
bloody hell :dizzy2:

OK I have to leave this topic.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
creationists:dizzy2:

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Then please leave if you do not wish to lend information instead of scrutinize.

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Originally Posted by Zain

Back to subject, Where did the universe come from and how does it not break the first law of thermodynamics?

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From Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang

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Without any evidence associated with the earliest instant of the expansion, the Big Bang theory cannot and does not provide any explanation for such an initial condition; rather, it describes and explains the general evolution of the Universe since that instant.

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The Big Bang theory therefore does not care where the initial matter/energy came from, and therefore fits with the 1st law.

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Originally Posted by Zain

I believe that God made it. Its my answer. My "theory" answers that question. Cool huh?

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With this response, trollness confirmed. Enjoy life, I have dogs to exercise.