Bandits and Mercenaries

I'd like to sign up as a Mercenary, I've always liked to be defenders =P. I also like the idea of this new way of playing multiplayer.

Also? Will there every be huge events? Like instead of one Merc and one bandit and 100 peasents, there will be lik 1000 peasents along with about 3 merc and bandits? I know it'd be hard to set up, but it would make it more interesting. I'm just wondering, why can Mercs not be Muslims? I have taken a personal liking to their units, Though using the Ghaza might be expensive with their tendencies to fight to the last man. I can understand why Bandits should having Muslims, as mass Turcomer Horse Archers would make quick work of the peasents, but why not Mercenaries?

Wellcome Tiger,
Good to have you, we still need some more Mercenaries.
This should be a different type of defending, more like escorting really. But hope you will enjoy it nonetheless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
Will there every be huge events? ...like 1000 peasents along with about 3 merc and bandits?

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Later in the game, shure, why not. I have started with a simple 1v1 mission but intend to move to bigger missions soon. And yes, there could also be an occasional scenario where others come in as "guest charakters" just for one huge event http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif Good idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I can understand why Bandits should not have Muslims, as mass Turcomer Horse Archers would make quick work of the peasents, but why not Mercenaries?

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There is another reason that has to do with the rules for upgrading armies as players "level up". For Europeans the rules are simple : no knights, CMAA or gunpowder troops at the start, sais it all. But which Muslin unit do you classify as knights ?

I simply dont know enough about these factions to decide which units to allow for level 1, 2 or 3 and enven if I did, I think it could make for a pretty complex set of rules. And my brain is just not big enough for that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-blush.gif . So for the sake of simplicity I decided to leave them out for now.

I agree with Dio and think the 5000 should be lowered a bit. If I scrape I can probably still get 16 units with 3.5 k too though. :) Not very good ones though. As of now..I can get a decent v1 army with 5000 and 16 units. I'll play with it later tonight, and try to see how many different combos I can get under 4k, 3.5k, and 3k.. and see which works best in the context of the game?

Besides that... surely there must be some Bandit scum out there that thinks this delivery is worthwhile to attack... I know, Amatsu's name is feared across the land for his ferociousness of attack and cunning in defense. Still, if a Bandit does not step forward, I understand.. I wouldn't want to face me either. An easy journey through peaceful land is enough for me to handle... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

*Looks forward to it......*
Do we declare a faction and stick by it?
i was thiknig of SAP (swiss armoured pikemen) but they're exclusive to the swiss.

Yes, youd have to declare a faction and stick by it.

Don't see how it could technically work online with having Highlandmen, SAP and Vikings all in one army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif

Other than that, there's nothig wrong with choosing the Swiss if you want them.

3.5k florins sounds good - nothing wrong with smaller battles to start off with. Am I allowed Polish retainers? If i was the english, would i be allowed turcopoles?

- might be an idea to post a list of those factions which are acceptable, just to avoid confusion.

In the scenario above, i'm taking it its up to the players to be honest when (if) the peasant unit gets to the other side of the map (unless there's a special game type we could adapt to get the peasant unit into a certain target location) - guess if the peasant unit does get to the other side its up to the bandit to withdraw, or carry on bashing the mercenary (or vice-versa).

Also taking it that the mercenary can't just withdraw the peasant unit and get 400 florins for the effort

Oh, and what are the rules for troop maintenance (eg: how much will different troop types cost to maintain at the end of each game month)? I'll need to think about this before i choose an army.


Once i know the above, i don't mind getting wasted by Amatsu - as long as he isn't nasty and wipes out my units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-furious3.gif

Ama, my Byzantine Bandits do not fear you, or your peasants.

We'll see you on the field.

Hi KyodaiSteeleye,

I guess I should put a list of the allowed factions as an appendix to the manual. Will do that when I make the next version. Just trying to collect a couple of points, so that I don't issue a new version for ever little change.

For now, the factions you can choose are : Danish, English French, German, Itaian, Polish, Spanish, Aragonese, Byzantine and Swiss.

You can use any unit of your faction, that does not fall under the "level restriction". If I can avoid it, I'd rather not make huge lists with every permitted unit listed individually. I thinnk it would be rather tedious for players to read through http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif (and for me to make, of course). But if it becomes necessary, I will make it.



As for reaching the end of the map, this can be prooved with the battle replay file or/and a screenshot (Prnt Scrn + paste into any paint program to save as jpg). But on the whole I would hope players here are honest enough not to cheat each other.

In another post Kongamato has written a very good sentence which I like to quote here:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
.... the player mindset has to be to play along, not to exploit the system.

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In that sense, instant withdrawing to get a risk-free 400 Florins would also be an exploit. Dang, I am paying them mercs to get my goods to the market. If I catch them running without even trying to put up a fight, they won't see a single penny from me.

As for the support cost of troop types, they are the ones from the Single Player game for v0 units plus 20% for each additional valor point. I have a huge Excel list called "Full Unit Data By Faction.xls" which I downloaded from the Sword&Pistol tavern, which unfortunately does not exist anymore. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif
I can email it to you or upload it here as soon as I figure out how to do it. But maybe the file is still up for download already.

Meanwhile, I can tell you that, when I test-calculated some armies of 3k to 4k, they typically came out between 500 and 700 Florins per month. So if you leave that much in reserve, you should be fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Once i know the above, i don't mind getting wasted by Amatsu - as long as he isn't nasty and wipes out my units

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I take that for a "yes, sign me up" then
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif

Good luck and happy hunting.


Edit:----------------
Ooops Dion,

Seems you were crossing my post as I was typing it.
Well, if KyodaiSteeleye wants, he has technically signed up before you. So its his choice and you may have to bash Amatsu some other time.

If I could I would route both Bandit armies with an arm tied behind my back to boot I may be a mercenary fighting for the highest bidder, but I know not to steal that which does not belong to me. My old code of Bushido dictates such, as I fought for many Daimyos in Shogun... I will not disgrace them. Filthy Bandits, don't deserve to own an army... and when I destroy it... I'll back my words. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-argue.gif

Hehe, out of character.... Nigel, should we declare the armies we will be using here? Or will there be something seperate? I assume after we choose our armies, we are stuck with them until funds say we can upgrade (or downgrade, as the case may be), and so forth. I am willing to go with 3.5k to start... and putting aside 500 of that for maintenance seems easy enough to do?

Do you have a website in the works mate? It could be very helpful. It could give a list of how much we spend, and then it's corresponding maintainence costs... lists of the armies others are using, who has done what against who (a history of missions), maybe a private message board... so on and so forth... Just wondering if any of this is in the works.. as this will un-doubtedly need to become more organized as it gains speed.

Also, post-battle, do we need to send you a log-file so you can figure out the correct amount of pay for the Bandits, seeing how many peasants they killed? Or is it left to the players to record the results and send them in? A log-file system would be helpful in ransoming, and seeing if any units are eliminated from that army. (I think you said the full unit need be killed, but, it makes more sense to me that if 2/3 of a unit is killed, then it should be taken out of the army. Otherwise, a unit could escape with 1 life left and come to fight another day. We could say that the remaining 1/3 become so disheartened with their casualty rate, and lack of apparent leadership of their bandit/merc commander, that they abandon hope and leave the army. This would also force a player to be much more careful with battlefield tactics, and balls to the walls assaulting will not yield much.)

Just some thoughts/ideas I've been having. I think some of this need be addressed before we take the field for sure. :) Until then, to the drawing board I go... planning out a 3.5 (3.0)k army... and a 5k army.. if we still decide to go that route... neither seems official yet, unless I am mistaken?

Umm, I've looked around your thread, and I've found no reference to which era you are going to use, whether it be Early, High, or Late. This is crutial to picking my faction, so I need to know this little detail you've forgotten. Otherwise, haven't you talked about you yourself managing the peasents? If you did this, cheating would be nonexistent.

Brave words, Amatsu, brave words. May you live not to regret them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

But thanks for your input. Much food for thought here. But first off is seems that there is a consensus here that 3.5k is a good amount to start with.

I hereby officially declare the starting money for each player to be 3500 Florins.


I'll update the players list shortly. Now to your other questions.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Do you have a website in the works mate?

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You are talking a big project here. For me anyway. I am no web master and a website like this will be way beyond my computing skills I'm afraid http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif Nonetheless I have made the experience that there is a lot you can do just with forums. Some time ago a few friends and me ran an entire MP Campaign through the email and a single thread at a forum. It worked really well and this game is designed for that, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]should we declare the armies we will be using here? Or will there be something seperate?

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Post your army here. I will go and update it in the Player list. That place will become the main info screen for the game and I will keep updating it regularly as missons are played and the player info changes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Also, post-battle, do we need to send you a log-file

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Post-battle it will be good if you can send me the log-files (or the replay, or a screenshot of the end screen). You may still want to record the result yourselves in case the log-file gets corrupted (has been known to happen).

I'm not so sure about your 1/3, 2/3 suggestion. Could be hard workt to monitor that. I'll give it some more thought.


Ohh and Tiger, this will be Late Era, as the game is set in the dusk of chivalry. Thanks for pointing that out.

Well, lots of things still need to be organized. But we'll get there. Just one step at a time.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-clown.gif

Do you mind battle replays? I know how to upload them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif

In battles where a special unit is required (eg the val 4 peasants), I assume the player will get sufficiant extra fl to buy them for his army for that mission, so he does not have to pay for them out of his own pocket? So Amatsu will get 125 (or whatever) extra fl to spend on the val 4 peasants, right?

Also, I now have my army. I'll be playing as English. I have 15 units, and 284 fl left. The mercenary leader will be named Hugh Fitzjohn (mead hall readers will understand). You say no knights, are mounted sergeants allowed? The rest of my cavalry may be hobilars, but I'm not having The Rabid Duke riding a hobby horse Also, I assume feudal men at arms are allowed.

No, Axeknight, special units, like the peasants do not need to be payed for by the mercenaries.
Their pay comes out of my own hoseholding purse.

The way it will work in online battles is that you start them with an overkill of Florins anyway, and just buy the units which you should have for that game, not spending the rest of the money. No point cheating here, because it is easily checked by looking at the logfile.


If you have your army sorted, post it here. Mounted sergeants and feudal MAA are allowed.


Ohh and if you dont mind posting a link to that little insider story about Hugh Fitzjohn and the Rabid Duke, I am sure we'd all love to share a laugh and a good story http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

I have made my beginning army selection. I will be playing at the Italians.

3 v0 w0 a0 Mounted Seargants (One of them being my general)
3 v0 w0 a0 Italian Infantry
3 v0 w0 a0 Feudal Men At Arms
2 v0 w0 a0 Archers
2 v0 w0 a0 Pavise Arbalests

So a total of 13 units, with 200 Florins left over. (I haven't figured in the amount I get for taking the mission yet. Pending also, is if I succeed or not. :) )

Any Bandit hoping to attack me and get away with the loot... All I have to say is this...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif = Amatsu

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-furious3.gif = Bandit

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-argue.gif = Battle

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-book2.gif = Amatsu Reading

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-zzz.gif = Amatsu sleeping due to ease of battle

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif = Victory Drinks for my Mercenary army

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif = Bandits running from the field

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-gossip.gif = Word of my heroism spreads

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-toff.gif = I become rich

Nigel, I might set up a simple web-site, by your own permission soon. We'll still use this message board for planning, and all that... but the site will have a listing of participants and their current armies, their florin amounts... and maybe a brief history of missions. Having it all in one place and not spread through several pages will be helpful. No promises though, my website skills are rusty. :) I'll see if I can get anything going though, if you think it is a good path to take, that is....

I declare myself the faction of Polish, my Army list is:
v0 w0 a0 Polish Retainers
v0 w0 a0 Lithuanian Cavalry
v0 w0 a0 Lithuanian Cavalry
v0 w0 a0 Pikemen
v0 w0 a0 Pikemen
v0 w0 a0 Pikemen
v0 w0 a0 Pikemen
v0 w0 a0 Halberdiers
v0 w0 a0 Halberdiers
v0 w0 a0 Halberdiers
v0 w0 a0 Pavise Alabesters
v0 w0 a0 Pavise Alabesters

Florins left = 250

Just head on down to the mead hall. The new thread is called Fitzjohn. I've written two parts, and part 3 is coming soon.

My army:

Mounted Sergeants v1 (General unit - the Rabid Duke's personal bodyguards)
Hobilars v0
Hobilars v0
Hobilars v0
Urban Militia v1
Longbowmen v0
Lonbowmen v0
Feudal Sergeants v1
Feudal Sergeants v1
Feudal Men at Arms v1
Feudal Men at Arms v1
Highland Clansmen v0
Highland CLansmen v0
Highland Clansmen v0
Highland Clansmen v0

- Amatsu

first off, if you want to make a website for this game, I say GRAET http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
If you can do that it will be a lot of fun and can help us a lot.

However, and please dont thake this the wrong way, in the past I have learned that these campaigns should not become too dependent on the support of a single dedicated website. Some years ago, a friend of mine supported a campaign we were doing on a website of his. It looked brilliant, it grew, became big and bigger. Then all of a sudden it collapsed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...embarassed.gif. The files got lost and everything broke down beyond repair. We all held out breaths back then and the whole thing nearly died, if it had not been for Lord Tigger, who offered us some space at his Sword&Pistol forum and we could keep it alive.

Ever since then I am a firm believer in campaign games which can run in the format of a forum.

That said, if you want to make a supporting website, to help out, showing additional information in an easy to find way and give us some nice eyecandy that fit the theme, I think that's cool and it will be most wellcome. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif



- Tiger and Axeknight

Thanks for submitting your army composition here.
I will go and work out the support cost and update the site shortly.

And Axeknight, nice story http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif

Very good idea Nigel. Websites are fine, but if you do not have a backup then you are "dead in the water" if the site goes away.

If you can describe what you would like to have on a website to make this campaign more enjoyable, then let me know. I believe I can find some room on my Ugli Campaign website I am using for the 2 Campaign games you have been watching. :) Any secondary type of info. which might add flavor to the game would be good. Stories etc. You could also ask Olds to use the Ugli.org site as an upload/download of any battles/missions of note.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Nigel @ May 09 2004,23:41)]And Axeknight, nice story http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif

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Thanks, Nigel Although Fitzjohn would need to be about 70 (my story's set in the 1260's) to fight this campaign, we'll gloss over that detail http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

.... gah, minor details, Axeknight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif



I have now updated the player list to show your armies etc. Go to page 1 to check it out.


Have to say, you guys are cutting it pretty close with the payment for your troops. None of you has left enough in their treasure chest for a month's payment. I did say it would be around 500 and 700 Florins, no ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...embarassed.gif


Well, you'd better get some good missions soon.
I'll see what I can do
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-clown.gif

Gah Duke Fitzjohn doesn't worry over such minor details as army payment One good rage should set them all right

"You want money, eh?"
"Y...Yes, Sir."
"YOU WANT MY MONEY?"
"Er... No, no, not really. I'll, erm... Be off now."

But yeah, some more missions would be great. Mind if I put in a request to take the next one?

Ok after much thought I declare my army :
The French
2 units pf v0 Turcopoles
2 units of v0 Hobilars
1 unit of v1 Militia Seargents
2 units of v0 Genoese Sailors
1 unit of v1 Pavise Arablasters
1 unit of Swiss Pikemen
2 units of v0 FMAA

Sorry about the mispicking.

The new florin count is

2896 spent and 604 left....yes i have a lot left....

Ok, time to declare.

Assorted English & Scots dogs under Guillame the Colt

All units W0, A0

1 V0 Mounted Sergeants (General)
3 V1 Mounted Sergeants
4 V1 Feudal Men at Arms
2 V2 Highland Clansmen
2 V0 Archers

Cost - 3289
Chest - 211

BTW - who got the first bandit mission?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (KyodaiSteeleye @ May 10 2004,13:50)]BTW - who got the first bandit mission?

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You did http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

If you want it, that is. Otherwise it will go to Dion.


ohh, and Chimpyang,

sorry, but you cant have CMAA just yet. Those elite fighters will only follow a Mercenary Commander, someone who can offer them the comfort of a fortified mercenary camp. You don't have that yet.

My army: Spanish under me me me

4 mounted sergeants valour 0
2 feudal sergeants val 0
1 pikeman val 0
4 feudal men at arms valour 0
3 arbalesters valour 0

625 florins left (should be able to pay wages)

Maybe its a good idea to make the rule: pay your army before the battle.... This way everybody is sure to at least start with an army about similar? After first games, armies will start to change... just a thought.

Its oke for me to not do that, but ill be reinforcing then probably.

Sulla

Ok, Amatsu, i guess we should be getting this show on the road. So when is that shipment of silk coming through again? so i can arrange a welcoming committee.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

I'm away weds, thurs this week, and tommorrow prob's isn't great. What about friday night? I'm England, so GMT.

Steeleye.

I really suck at time conversions, hehe... I'm in the eastern time zone. I can probably be available Friday-Sunday 10pm and after? Possibly earlier... hehe. Let me check a time conversion, that will make it easier.

Ok, GMT for me is -5. So let me know times that you can make it, and we'll go from there. :) I'm typically available at any time during the weekends (during weekdays too), but, my parents like to use the computer also... so that makes things tricky sometimes. That's why the later it is here, the better chance I have of actually showing up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...-2thumbsup.gif Accomdations can be made though.. I'm sure. Plus with such low valor units the battle probably won't last too long... hehe.

Chirotera@aol.com is my e-mail addy... drop me a line on your available times. And I'll see what I can do to show up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-curtain.gif

We've got our first mission starting, GREAT http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-balloon.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-balloon.gif

I just realize I should probably issue some more details about the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-blush.gif
Well, here we go :

Name : bul1_practice
Season : Spring
Arcitecture : Eastern European
Time limit : 60 min
just to make sure Amatsu isn't camping on some hill (as if he would http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif )

Needless to say all games will be Standard Unit Size, Morale on, Fatigue on, Limited Ammo on, Restricted Camera on.

Anything forgotten ?

Edit : of course something forgotten. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif


Mercenaries : Attackers side
Bandits : Defenders side

Mercenaries have to set up roughly in the back half of their deploy area, so they will have some space to cross and can't go half the distance just by deploying up front.