Mel Gibson's drunken tirade against Jews and the fallout

To those who've been asking, "Why is this news?" I'd like to give a partial answer. When Mel did his Passion, there were some things stuck into the film that aren't in the Gospels. Satan doesn't walk among the Jews in any of the four Gospels. The high priests don't attend Jesus' scourging, wringing their hands in glee. And the whole blood curse line, which was never cut, just taken out of the English subtitles, only occurs in one Gospel.

Anyway, with all of this, a lot of people asked whether or not Mel was an anti-semite when the Passion came out. Mel denied it vigorously, and went on all the obvious daytime TV holes to declare his ant-anti-semitism.

According to the police reports, Mel's intoxication level was at about five beers, for a man of his height and weight. That isn't crazy piss-on-yourself-and-declare-undying-love-for-the-stop-sign drunk. That's a mellow, low-grade sort of drunk, unless you're a complete pushover, which hard-drinkin' Mel probably ain't.

So you have a guy who is mildly intoxicated, declares that he owns the local police, repeatedly insults the cops, makes broad anti-semitic statements, and the record then gets muddled because it's possible some of the cops are covering up for Mel.

It's a tiny bit of a scandal. And yes, Spino, we don't really give a flying Org about actors and such, but Mel made his Passion into a cultural and curch-centered event. He pushed his beliefs and theology a little more deeply and fully than any actor or director in a while. It's worth noting, if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

I'm not saying Italians have been persecuted through the centuries in the same way Jews have. I'm saying that based on the logic used, they should have been.

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That does it. I'm going to burn down my local pizza parlor. That will show those Christ-killing Italians we mean business!

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Funny, I dont remember seeing his statue last time I was at Church... Seriously though, other than his celebrity status, he doesnt wield any more influence than anyone else- he doesnt set policy or shape thinking.

Shot through with anti-semitism? :rolleyes:

I dont get it either- the "hollywood crowd's" opinions are no better (and often worse) than everyone else. I dont really care what they have to say.

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When I watched "Munich" I had a really hard time reminding myself that Steven Speilberg is Jewish. He seemed to be saying that if the the Israelis have to use violence to defend themselves, then Israel doesn't deserve to exist.

I find many of the comments coming out of the American media way more anti-Israeli and indeed even anti-Jewish then what Mel said. I think the difference is tone. There's a world of difference between going on Tim Russert and calmly saying "At the end of the day, all problems in the Middle East are due to Israel and their heavy-handed responses to minor issues" as opposed to shouting in a drunken rage "f-ing Jews cause all the wars. Are you a Jew?"

I also think it's a double standard in the American media that the only people that can safely criticize Israel are Jews.

Don, when I watch a movie I usually put into perspective the political beliefs of the director or actors in order to see it through a "bias filter" if you will. When I watched the Passion, several times, I never considered it a antiSemitic movie. But now that Gibson has "expressed" his views on the jewish condition in the world I have to question his purpose for his film.

BTW.. It wasn't the Jews or the Romans that killed Jesus, it was all of us. Like all things that are pure and beautiful given to us by God, our condition always finds a way to #### it up. Thankfully the sacrifice has been made, the perfect sacrifice, that is free to all who want it.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

BTW.. It wasn't the Jews or the Romans that killed Jesus, it was all of us.

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Honest, yer honour, I never touched 'im.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

BTW.. It wasn't the Jews or the Romans that killed Jesus, it was all of us.

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Hilarious.

People speak their minds when they're drunk. Big deal. I'd like people around me to speak their minds sober, but most people don't really have the stones for it. So Mel Gibson raved about the ZOG machine. I don't know the guy. I don't care. It's hardly a taboo subject to me, either, as it seems to be here..someone add that to Div's thread.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

BTW.. It wasn't the Jews or the Romans that killed Jesus, it was all of us.

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Oh, fine, go ahead, be serious about it. I think you're just trying to get the Italians off the hook. First they kill Jesus, then they win the world cup. I see a connection.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Oh, fine, go ahead, be serious about it. I think you're just trying to get the Italians off the hook. First they kill Jesus, then they win the world cup. I see a connection.

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Don't worry, I'm not letting them off the hook...
####ing Italians!!! They've cause all the cholesterol problems in the world with their yummy pasta and spicey meatballs!!! Are you Italian?:laugh4:

Gibson only hurts his own credibility and career with such outbursts. He was not drunk but he'd had enough to oil his prejudices, and reveal his deep-seated Catholic 'Christ-Killers' complex which was there for all to see in 'The Passion'. Nice guy? Not.

His only decent film IMO was Mad Max I, and he barely spoke in that.

Now, now DC. You can re-write the gospels if that will make you happy ~;) .

The Romans were merely doing their duty. They crucified criminals all the time in horrific fashion; it was the law of the day. I suppose everybody blames the authorities in American states where criminals are executed as murderers? The Jews are portrayed as engineering and gloating over Jesus' death in Gibbo's film. I think he over-stepped the mark (even compared to the gospels) and that reflected his own prejudice, but that is just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

When I watched "Munich" I had a really hard time reminding myself that Steven Speilberg is Jewish. He seemed to be saying that if the the Israelis have to use violence to defend themselves, then Israel doesn't deserve to exist.

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Going off on a tangent, but one of the things I liked about "Munich" was that it took a complex moral conundrum and did not seem to try to "say" anything in a simplistic sense. The issue was not reduced to one of the legitimacy of "violence" - fighting in the 1973 war was presented in an uncomplicated light. Rather it was one of what are the limits to violence - in that specific case, does it extend to assassinating "civilians" in foreign countries? With all the possiblilities of faulty intelligence, "collateral damage" and furthering a spiral of violence that it may entail. But the general issue is still a live one for Israel at the moment and arguably for the US in its so-called "war on terror".

"Munich" was characterised by the all the nuances, ambiguities and uncertainties that are so absent in Mel's movies.

Whoever combined my thread with Don's, Don gets the credit for the title and the main discussion. Could a mod please give him the credit by having his name as the author of the discussion...:help:
Thanks

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Whoever combined my thread with Don's, Don gets the credit for the title and the main discussion.

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An honourable request but the posts of two merged threads get sorted in chronological order - and yours came a couple of minutes earlier ~;)

I chose Don's thread title for the combined thread as it was more descriptive

This wouldn't be so much of an issue if Mel hadn't stated he didn't hate jews after The Passion; as it stands it shows him to be something of a hypocrit and it does put that work in a different light. That combined with his additional status as producer and famous actor means his views can be shown in a persuasive fashion, when his views are potentially anti-semitic.

Having said that, I agree with econ21 about the lack of subtlety in his movies. In particular both Braveheart and The Patriot were unnecesarily simplified and painted the brits in an unrealistically evil light. I can't take them particularly seriously.

I also agree with the statements that being drunk doesn't make one into a different person with all-new views; while drunkenness does amplify emotions and opinions, those opinions must have been there to start with.

For what it's worth, here is Mel Gibson's official statement/apology:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movi...ent/index.html

I think I saw that he had a 0.12 BAC when they tested him, so definitely in the DUI range, but hardly blotto.

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Originally Posted by Red Peasant

Now, now DC. You can re-write the gospels if that will make you happy ~;) .

The Romans were merely doing their duty. They crucified criminals all the time in horrific fashion; it was the law of the day. I suppose everybody blames the authorities in American states where criminals are executed as murderers? The Jews are portrayed as engineering and gloating over Jesus' death in Gibbo's film. I think he over-stepped the mark (even compared to the gospels) and that reflected his own prejudice, but that is just my opinion.

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Well if you read Mark, as I did before posting, you'll see that it doesn't paint the priests in a good light, in fact for most the gospels Jesus is pretty venemous. As to Satan walking among the people, it could be metaphoric and it doesn't say the priests didn't watch his torture.

As Far as I can see, in itself, the Passion is not anti-Semetic. It may be that Gibson had anti-Semetic views beaten into him, or that he blaims Isreal for the way it acts.

My father has been all the war around the world and has come to the conclusion Black people aren't as smart as white people. I don't believe that but I was brought up with the bias and occasionally it slips into my thinking.

If I was drunk I might come out with something pretty nasty that is normally forcably burried, I don't conciously believe it but the prejudice has been built into my subconcious.

As to Mel's level of intoxication, if he just fell off the wagon after being sober a few beers could well hit him very hard.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Whoever combined my thread with Don's, Don gets the credit for the title and the main discussion. Could a mod please give him the credit by having his name as the author of the discussion...:help:
Thanks

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Much appreciated, but completely unnecessary. As Ser C pointed out, you got the drop on me. Besides, is starting new threads really a creditable activity? I always sort of thinking of it as raising the next turn in the conversation... continuing on with the whole tavern metaphor...

To my mind drunk driving is a far more serious offense.

drunk driving is the only legal offense here - except for maybe the destructive nature at the precinct. Who cares, deep down most of us don't like general groups of people. Sure we might like individuals, but i think it is safe to say that many of us secretly like groups of people less than others based on a multifaceted reasoning.

if you run into a certain group of people with very similar beliefs who seem to generally have opinions that are very far removed from your own, wouldnt it be fair to say that they irritate you as a group? maybe one on one they are okay, but as a block of people, thier interests run counter to yours. they are, for all intents and purposes, your enemy. Add all of these little personal offenses done by a particulat block of people and resentments/hatreds arise. Makes sense to me.

i say those types of things all the time to my friends and people i talk to (many of them jews). If that makes me a bigot, then so be it, but i will not condemn mel for my own practices. I can condemn him for letting those opinions out to police and sounding like a maniac, tho. ah well

Can't add much to the discussion, Don, Xiahou, and Lemur pretty much hit everything I would've.

It certainly is disappointing, as a Christian and a Catholic, to see someone who represents us (although appointed as representative mainly by the media and his acclaim as an actor/director) behave so disgracefully. Driving drunk, then being rude to the police officer and of course his comments about the Jews.

However, it doesn't warrent the ruckus the media is making over it. I read in the paper that some in Hollywood are calling for a boycott of Gibson on "moral grounds" or something like that. As if Hollywood really cared about morality and not the bottom dollar.

Whats really upsetting is that he has to cancel the production of Passion 2: Christ in New York.
I seriously wonder if any of the arresting officers had Jewish sounding names, and perhaps Mel was trying to goat them because he thought he was being pushed around or something, and it all just escalated from there. Had the guy not been making these comments while also acting violently, he could at least shrug it off as locker room humor.

This is obviously just another conspiracy by the Jews to hurt people they don't like, and its no accident this happened in the same state governized by our president's sister. It's also an attempt to gain symapthy for Isreals invasion of Libya. Mel gibson was not saying "Jewish" and "Jews" he was saying "Newish" and "Noobs", as in Rumsfield in a "Noob."

Oh, come on, his films should be shunned because they are over-hyped, poorly acted s***e. I've seen corpses with more charisma than Mel and a greater range of acting ability.

It's strange to see the moral relativism of Gibson's fanboy defenders at play here, especially amongst those whom I would expect to abhor such a stance. ~;)

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The blows came as the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department released an unusually soft-focus mugshot it took of Gibson, 50, after he was arrested for speeding through Malibu while drunk, with a bottle of tequila in a brown paper bag on the back seat. It also emerged that the sheriff’s deputy who arrested Gibson — before the actor’s now infamous antiSemitic outburst — was Jewish.

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link

Why was the original statement amended? That smacks of a cover up. :inquisitive:

Who cares if he likes jews. Why isn't everyone talking about him driving when drunk.

I think thats a given, its clearly stupid.

I'm still not convinced he's anti-Semetic and it seems like a shot from the Jewish establishment. I thought this was interesting.

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Originally Posted by Article

“I don’t take pride in hurting Mr Gibson,” said Deputy James Mee. “What I had hoped out of this is that he would think twice before he gets behind the wheel of a car and was drinking. That would be my hope that this would accomplish that. I don’t want to ruin his career.”

Mr Mee added that he did not take any of Gibson’s comments seriously, saying: “That stuff is booze talking.” The sheriff’s department continued to withhold Mr Mee’s report, although it has confirmed that Gibson asked the officer: “Are you a Jew?” then blamed all wars in the world on the Jews.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...295455,00.html

Maybe the guy looks Jewish? Some people do, just like some people look French. In fact if the deputy was Jewish that lowers the anti-Semetic quota again, if he'd been black or Italian maybe Mel would be mouthing off about them.

Its a real non-issue as far as I'm concerned, I think the Jewish establishment; and lets face it, America has one, is over sensitive. I also think they want Gibson's scalp for the Passion, which is no more anti-Semetic than the Bible.

Also Why would an anti-Seminite be making a series about a Dutch Holocaust survivor?

Does Holocaust denial make you anti-Semetic?

Or does it just mean you don't want to believe it could happen?

It seems to me that if you're white anything you say about any other racial group will be construed as racist.

Because he wasn't driving drunk, it's a Jewish conspiracy against him. There was also an attempt on his life during the filming of The Patriot, a fellow by the name of Tyrone Epstien. Tyrone was 1/3rd Jewish and worked for the Jewish Department in the CIA.

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Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall

It seems to me that if you're white anything you say about any other racial group will be construed as racist.

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I find this comment to be very racist and offensive. :boxing:

All kidding aside, there is certainly some truth in that... that here in the land of the overly PC, different minority groups are engaged in a contest to see who can out thin-skin the others.

Several black politicians, at various levels (including my gal Cynthia McKinney), have taken offense to: 'call a spade a spade', (which actually refers to labor practices); the term niggardly (which does NOT have a cognate with the oft used racial epithet); and God forbid you call the wrong person black, African American or 'person of color'. They seem to switch the preferred the term amongst themselves at the NAACP convention and forget to tell the rest of us.

On the Jewish side, we've had Jewish folks take offense to: the term "miserly", A Christmas Carroll (I never knew Scrooge was a Jewish name), any deptiction of the Passion of Christ (the biblical story, not Mel's movie), nativity scenes anyplace (even on church grounds) and the term 'heebie-jeebies'.

Homosexuals have a pretty long list of things that offend them. I think they have a conference about it every year in Provincetown, though this year, the tables got turned on them and some people actually filed some discrimination charges against homosexual only bed-and-breakfasts.

And God knows, white Christian America can certainly get it's knickers in a knot over expressing things they might not like. Try discussing our treatment of the Native Americans, or mention that in reality, the original Minutemen were really guerilla fighters and you had better duck. Point out some of the nastier aspects of the American slave trade, try discussing evolution or mention that the Inquisition was probably in the top 3 of all time acts of intolerance and you see people bristle.

My point is, yes, everybody in America gets offended about something, and when they get offended, we have to add a new line to the now multi-volumnious PC code. Nine times out of ten, it's a silly offense that even if it has disparaging roots has lost them.

But in this particular case...

Mel didn't say "F-ing Israelis", he said "F-ing Jews". There's an important difference there. There is a large paranoid conspiracy theory out there that Jews are secretly plotting behind the scenes controlling all the conflicts in the world to get goyam to fight and allow the Jews to control the world by pulling the strings. Hitler articulated the clearest vision of it, but it predated him (why do you think Dreyfus was the fall guy?) It is alive and well today, though it's encoded in terms like 'neo-con'. But the lie, that Jews are secretly plotting against the rest of the world and formenting all the trouble the rest of us face... it's one of the main reasons Jews have faced such persecution over the centuries and here's Mel, a very public and influential figure, publicly espousing it. I agree with whomever above said that at BAC 0.12, you shouldn't be driving, but you're not talking to your ancestors yet either. This level of booze just loosens your tongue, it doesn't plant alien thoughts.

Surprising isn't it? How many people hold racist views, yet we're not fully aware of it because the politically correct machine puts a gag on them. A problem is never solved by simply telling people "you're not allowed to say that", they'll still think it, so you've just driven the problem underground not lessened it.

Saw the end of some film in which Mel is ageing really fast or something, after having reappeared from being presumed dead? Also starring JamieLee Curtis and a young Elijah Wood. It was crap.

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some people actually filed some discrimination charges against homosexual only bed-and-breakfasts

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OT I know, but I's got to know: how does a homosexuals only B and B CHECK?

EA Hi, I phoned earlier to book a room.

Homosexual B and B Hmm, your clothes look kind of, lame. Are those Levis? You aren't one of those straights are you?

EA, (laughs nervously,) No SIR, bent as a nine bob note, me, damn damn damn, I meant, I'm queer and proud.

H B and B, OK, well, if you are gay I guess you wouldn't mind just telling me the name of Dorothy's dog in the Wizard of Oz?

EA (sweats) er, Tonto, no, no, that's the Lone Ranger, I knew that, man what a gay icon they were, ha, easy mistake to make eh, Toto, that's it.

H B and B What's your favourite quiche filling?

EA Umm, Mushroom? No? Ham? Wait, I'll get it, sundried tomatoes and roasted shallots?

H B and B, name three Barbara Streisand albums.

EA Hey, was that a Travel Inn I saw down the road?