Mel Gibson's drunken tirade against Jews and the fallout

I've heard people say some pretty stupid things while drunk in my time, hell I've said some pretty incredible ###t myself while under the influence of liquid courage, but I believe that many times we say what we truly believe most of the time when we're lit.
This leads me to Mel Gibson. I remember a couple of years back I defended his film, the Passion, while many called it anti-Semitic. Well, after his "f###ing Jews" comment and his comments about all the troubles in the world are caused by Jews during his recent run in with the law, I have to reconsider my position. The Passion was a wonderful movie and depicted the sacrifice of Christ in a very respectful and glorious way. But now, I'm not sure. Now knowing Gibson's beliefs, which he can apologize all day long for to which he can receive forgiveness from Jesus, but not me, I can honestly see the anti Semitism in the Passion.

So, heres my question. After his tirade, has Gibson lost credibility with you, if you ever found him to be a credible actor/director? Or do you believe that he was sincere in his apology and didn't really mean what he said, "the alcohol talking" explanation?

Well, it would appear that Mel's rant the other night is going to cost him. ABC is dropping their Holocaust mini-series project that his production company, Icon Productions was supposed to make. Influential talent agent, Ari Emmanuel, is calling for a permanent boycott on working with Mel Gibson in any capacity. Disney (parent company of ABC) is pretty mum on whether they intend to distribute Apocalypto (Mel's movie about the decline & fall of the Mayan empire).

In the meantime, it's been revealed that despite his publicsts statements, Mel has not checked into rehab (the time honored way in Hollywood to save some face). The 'long term treatment' the publicist referred to was just attending AA meetings on a regular basis.

Just curious what orgahs think about this. Here's my 2 cents. I certainly have said things when I was drunk that I wish that I hadn't. Did some part of me, deep down inside hold as true what I was saying though? Well, yes. When I was overly inebriated one night, I told my father that all he'd ever done in my life was hold me back. (mind you, I was 19 at the time) The next morning, he called me on it. Well, in truth, my father had a very hands-on approach to parenting, literally and figuratively. I did resent at times not being empowered to make some of the more critical decisions in my life without his involvement. BUT: even then, I certainly didn't feel that this was a defining characteristic of our relationship. Alcohol may bring about 'what somebody really thinks', but it also amplifies it to a point of distorting that truth.

Does Mel feel that Israel is unjustified in it's current actions. I'd say that's pretty clear. But is he a confirmed anti-semite? I don't know. As I said, alcohol amplifies, and I would really have to judge him more heavily on what he has said (and what he hasn't) while sober. If he secretly repudiates his father's theories on the holocaust and in the past hadn't wanted to publicly contradict his father, I'd say he has certainly lost that luxury. NOW would be the time for him to come clean and say outright what his feelings are. Now if he actually agrees with his Dad, then obviously he should keep that to himself, and frankly he deserves to be shunned.

But, in conclusion, I want to make 2 points. If Mel was just an actor, I would have far less concern about his anti-semitic views. But as a director and producer, he wields a lot of influence and I don't care to view any of his work until he publicly annonces that he is not a holocaust denier. Second, I am deeply bitterly resentful of him for this action. 2 years ago, when the Passion came out, I could never express to the secular left on this board that a Christian belief IS NOT compatible with anti-semitism and true Christians DO NOT fault the Jews for Christ's crucifxion. I swear, when I read about the comments Mel made, I could almost hear Jag and Idaho snickering. Well, I still hold that no true Christian could be an anti-Semite, but I do understand that my uphill fight on this point has gotten even harder.

Jinx! You owe me a coke.

Seriously, Dave, do you really think the Jews were potrayed any worse than the Romans? I'd say the scene of Jesus being flogged by the Guardsmen was the most horrible I've ever witnessed, and they were Italians, not Jews. Being of Italian descent, I didn't take the scene as an affront to my ancestors.

I did take it very personally. Some habits die hard, even when you leave the Catholic church. I forced myself to remember every bad thing I could think of while I watched it, and reminded myself it was these very acts that required all of that. You'll be amazed how easy it is to keep your sinful desires in check after watching the movie in that frame of mind once or twice.

Jinx! You owe me a coke.

Seriously, Dave, do you really think the Jews were potrayed any worse than the Romans? I'd say the scene of Jesus being flogged by the Guardsmen was the most horrible I've ever witnessed, and they were Italians, not Jews. Being of Italian descent, I didn't take the scene as an affront to my ancestors.

I did take it very personally. Some habits die hard, even when you leave the Catholic church. I forced myself to remember every bad thing I could think of while I watched it, and reminded myself it was these very acts that required all of that. You'll be amazed how easy it is to keep your sinful desires in check after watching the movie in that frame of mind once or twice.

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Well, it would appear that Mel's rant the other night is going to cost him. ABC is dropping their Holocaust mini-series project that his production company, Icon Productions was supposed to make. Influential talent agent, Ari Emmanuel, is calling for a permanent boycott on working with Mel Gibson in any capacity. Disney (parent company of ABC) is pretty mum on whether they intend to distribute Apocalypto (Mel's movie about the decline & fall of the Mayan empire).

In the meantime, it's been revealed that despite his publicsts statements, Mel has not checked into rehab (the time honored way in Hollywood to save some face). The 'long term treatment' the publicist referred to was just attending AA meetings on a regular basis.

Just curious what orgahs think about this. Here's my 2 cents. I certainly have said things when I was drunk that I wish that I hadn't. Did some part of me, deep down inside hold as true what I was saying though? Well, yes. When I was overly inebriated one night, I told my father that all he'd ever done in my life was hold me back. (mind you, I was 19 at the time) The next morning, he called me on it. Well, in truth, my father had a very hands-on approach to parenting, literally and figuratively. I did resent at times not being empowered to make some of the more critical decisions in my life without his involvement. BUT: even then, I certainly didn't feel that this was a defining characteristic of our relationship. Alcohol may bring about 'what somebody really thinks', but it also amplifies it to a point of distorting that truth.

Does Mel feel that Israel is unjustified in it's current actions. I'd say that's pretty clear. But is he a confirmed anti-semite? I don't know. As I said, alcohol amplifies, and I would really have to judge him more heavily on what he has said (and what he hasn't) while sober. If he secretly repudiates his father's theories on the holocaust and in the past hadn't wanted to publicly contradict his father, I'd say he has certainly lost that luxury. NOW would be the time for him to come clean and say outright what his feelings are. Now if he actually agrees with his Dad, then obviously he should keep that to himself, and frankly he deserves to be shunned.

But, in conclusion, I want to make 2 points. If Mel was just an actor, I would have far less concern about his anti-semitic views. But as a director and producer, he wields a lot of influence and I don't care to view any of his work until he publicly annonces that he is not a holocaust denier. Second, I am deeply bitterly resentful of him for this action. 2 years ago, when the Passion came out, I could never express to the secular left on this board that a Christian belief IS NOT compatible with anti-semitism and true Christians DO NOT fault the Jews for Christ's crucifxion. I swear, when I read about the comments Mel made, I could almost hear Jag and Idaho snickering. Well, I still hold that no true Christian could be an anti-Semite, but I do understand that my uphill fight on this point has gotten even harder.

the news of this "rant" that Mel Gibson threw hasn´t reached me....so I can´t comment......I´ll try to look it up latter when I get home.

I was a little shocked to read of his tirade, but not really surprised. The man has always struck me as crude in his behaviour and views, and the films he appears in often seem correspondingly crude in their "message(s)" (I may be biased as they are often anti-English ones). I really don't get the idea of not wanting to publicly contradict your father on a litmus issue like this. Mel's his own man and his opinionated father should be big enough to take it if they disagree.

look at this says alot.

In vino veritas.

I never saw "The Passion", so I'm not going to make any judgements about the potential anti-Semitic aspects of the film itself. But if descriptions of Mel's tirade are true, I'm willing to believe that he is not a big fan of the Jews. Should make for a few laughs, an perceived anti-Semite trying to make a living in the Hollywood business.

Alcohol has the disturbing tendency to remove inhibitions, so I would say that Mr Gibson's tirade is indicative of what he really thinks. Since his father is a card-carrying Holocaust denier whom he refuses to condemn, this is further evidence.

He's big in the Catholic world too, and sadly that Church is still shot through with fundamental anti-semitism. However, as you rightly say Don, this is completely wrong in a Christian context. I'm pretty anti-religious, but I would entirely accept your position.

I hope his career is, as he claimed in a moment of lucidity, f*****.

(Moreover, I'd love to have seen him try this stuff if he'd been pulled over by Eclectic. Somehow I doubt if the arrest report would have been altered quite so much )

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

exactly.....I like the guy because I enjoy lethal weapon....and mad max....and Payback is one of my all time favorite movies.....don´t particulary care what he says or does in his personal life or as a director....didn´t bother to see the "passion" as the subject matter didn´t interest me in the slightest.....


I just did a quick search and found out the guy was arrested for drunk driving and mouthed off to the police officer some.....so a guy got drunk and said some pretty stupid discusting remarks.....so what?....the world moves on...

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

It's news because movie makers can influence people's opinions. Look at the other thread where some external views of the US were skewed out of reality by watching Hollywood's version of life there.

Movies can be more than entertainment, and those responsible for making them need their views examined for motivation, just like any opinion former.

When you are into alcohol, your emotions and ideas get stronger and astray, they don't change 180 degrees. It is obvious that Gibson is not a fan of Jews.

Whoopdeedoo, a another star implodes in a brilliant flash of light and energy.

Who cares what Mel said? Who cares what Mel thinks? In fact, who cares what most actors, musicians, etc. say or think? Regarding artistry it is the creation that counts, not the creator. Talented or not most modern artists are insecure, attention whoring monkeys who will do or say anything so long people keep paying attention to them. Fuel them with alcohol or drugs and you get pathetic outbursts like this one. Speaking as someone who works in the entertainment industry if I believed in such a thing as an immortal soul I firmly believe most actors do not have one.

I really hope this doesn't prevent Gibson's film 'Apocalypto' from being released. Not that I think it will be great (I thought Passion of the Christ was mediocre) but when is the last time anyone made a film dealing with the Mayans?!?

You know I hate to point this out but in reference to the Passion, it was Jews that engineered Jesus' execution, he was betrayed by a Jew. However, that does not make Jews evil, since Jesus was also a Jew and so were his diciples.

Regardless, Jews were responsible for his arrest and execution, but not the Jews. So denying that Jews, and the Jewish establishment of the day, were not involved is as false as blaming modern Jews for the crucifiction of Jesus.

Tony Blair decided to take us into Iraq, does that make me responsible for the mess there now? Will it make my decendants responsible in 2,000 years.

As I recall Gibson's defence at the time was that it was the Gospel according to Mark.

Mark 43-65 clearly levels the blame at Judas and the Priests.

So I suppose that makes the Bible Anti-Semetic, except that the Gospels are reputed to have been written by Seminites.

Jews had Jesus crucified because he threatened the establishment but the fact that they were Jews is irrelevant in the context of racism because pretty much everyone in the whole book is a Jew.

Get over it.


So that leaves us with:

"F*****g Jews... The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world." Gibson then asked the deputy, "Are you a Jew?"

If thats all they've got its not much. Maybe Mel thinks we're at war with Muslim Extrimists because they hate us because we support Isreal.

Hardly major concrete evidence of anti-Semetic sentiments.

So maybe Mel is a Jew hater, or maybe he got drunk and launched into a tirade on the Middle East situation, which he blames Isreal for, as do the Arabs.

He should have stuck with slagging off the English. The officers would probably have given him an escort home for that.

As for anti-semitism, I have been hog whimperingly drunk on many ocassions (which is to say, rather more drunk than being still able to drive suggests) and although I have had some pretty terrible ideas as a result, they have mostly involved "ladies with nice personalities". I can honestly say drunk or not it has never occured to me that the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world. So yeah, I'd say this was pretty suggestive that Mel has issues. just as well there are no jews in the entertainment industry, eh?

Actually, most Americans have a very pro-British attitude. You're confusing our own ego and pride spilling over when watching the Patriot with an actual negative view of yourselves.

Hog whimperingly drunk... I'm going to have to remember that one.

I'm sorry DC, but that doesn't quite wash. Surely, you know of the history of Jewish persecution by Christianity? You know that for centuries they were portrayed and accused as 'Christ-killers'? You know that Gibson is a member of quite extreme Catholic sect?

Equating Jews with Italians in this context is just plain wrong.

Well equating Romans with Italians is just wrong too. They did get it right about truth in wine. I don't know. This guy had a Jew hating father and depending on how drunk he was maybe he was echoing his statements.

When a person gets to a certain point of drunkenness they stop speaking truth. As the brain continues to shut down, the layers peel away and you can find some nasty stuff that's been burried down there..

Okay. We'll rewrite the gospels for you Red Peasant. From now on, the Sanhedrin will be described as 'conservative religious leaders who were not Jewish'. Judas Iscariot will be referred to as "a right-wing idealogue that wasn't Jewish". The temple guards will be referred to as "the right wing military machine that was not Jewish". Will that make you happy?

Look, I can't speak for why the Catholic church has called Jews Christ killers for centuries. I CAN and I DO speak out against statements like that, highlighting the fact that Peter, John, Mary and in fact, Jesus himself, were ALL JEWISH.

In fact, the Romans were the ones who put Jesus to death. To blame modern day Jews for the treatment of Jesus, one would need to hold Italians equally responsible, if not more so, as they held the administrative authority in Jerusalem at the time, and what's more, it was Romans, not Jews that I) signed the execution order II) dragged him up to Golgotha III) nailed him up to the cross and IV) ran a spear through his side to speed things up. The same book that people use to condemn the Jews makes these very same points.

I'm not saying Italians have been persecuted through the centuries in the same way Jews have. I'm saying that based on the logic used, they should have been.

Mel Gibson has been going seriously downhill ever since he stopped playing Mad Max. This is just another step down.

you know, i never knew Mel hated Jews.

Originally Posted by The Spartan

look at this says alot.

also by this Mel loves the "f" word.

To take any action against him would, in my opinion, be overreaction. I do not
care about his views, nor would I be influenced by the views he might advocate
in his films.

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Actually, most Americans have a very pro-British attitude. You're confusing our own ego and pride spilling over when watching the Patriot with an actual negative view of yourselves. .

Hmm, well that's the Patriot taken care of, but he still owes me for Braveheart.

Maybe someone should tell him that Jewish terrorists ran a campaign against the British in Palestine between 1945-48? He could make a film about the bombing of the King David Hotel. I'm sure he'd feel a lot more positively about jewish people if he thought of them killing the English...

(All of this probably sounds as if I care a lot more about Mr Gibson's views than I do. Still, Mad Max 2 was quite good, wasn't it?)

Mel's Good Films:
Patriot
Braveheart
Lethal Weapon Seires
Ransom
theres more but forgot
(didnt watch Mad Max)

"Let He who is without sin kick the first ass."

(Family Guy, Season 4, on Mel's new film, Passion 2: Crucify This).

oh yeah! with Christ and Chris Tucker!

"What do you think you're looking at, sugar tits?"

Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

He's big in the Catholic world too, and sadly that Church is still shot through with fundamental anti-semitism. However, as you rightly say Don, this is completely wrong in a Christian context. I'm pretty anti-religious, but I would entirely accept your position.

Funny, I dont remember seeing his statue last time I was at Church... Seriously though, other than his celebrity status, he doesnt wield any more influence than anyone else- he doesnt set policy or shape thinking.

Shot through with anti-semitism?

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I could care less what he said, as far as I'm concerned his only purpose is to entertain me through movies. It's weird that this is news

I dont get it either- the "hollywood crowd's" opinions are no better (and often worse) than everyone else. I dont really care what they have to say.