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The Byz have a lot in common with the Selecids. Surrounded by enemies on the eastern fringe of the map. With the added bonus of being squarely in the crosshairs of Hun squared (Mongols and Timurids). The Russians are slow building but can become very rich and strong.
Apart from the vardariotai there is another good unit that the byzantines heve.The byzantine cavalry is a good all around unit that can turn a battle in your favor if u use it wisely,timely and in groups of 2-3 units together(they have descent armour and can stand in melee)
GAH!
No self-respecting Russian wannabe would play as the Russians without taking at least a swig or two of icy vodka each turn. Do that, and playing as the Russians will be a lot of fun. GAH! Vanya surrounds Himself with polka dancers, vodka vats, loony pseudo-religious visionaries, and the plundered wives of His neighborhood just to add a little flavor to each turn. And when things don't go right? He fires His wet musket--soaked in a tub of vodka, no less--at a random passer-by for kicks.
A jolly good time, young chaps!
GAH!
I think the Russians are great. A bit more boring than the catholic factions due to lack of crusades and popes missions, but I guess you dont have to deal with inquisitors (even though I never did) The units look cool, and theyre really actually very good units. Particularly the fact that they practically all shoot arrows, like the Dvor, they are excellent heavy infantry, and they shoot arrows, then there are the Dvor cavalry, same thing, and very well armoured. The Tsars guard look awesome, the Berdiche axemen tear ppl up, and the cossack musketeers you should have everything you need to recruit them by the time gunpowder comes up (just a huge stone wall in a city) and theyre alot better than arquebusiers, they can even fight in melee!
All in all a very good faction to play, am having a breeze dealing with my neighbors, and am pretty safe from attacks seeing as how im isolated in the corner of the map. The only thing is the lack of heavy charging cavalry (meaning no lances) but they still do well on the charge against infantry, and theyre charge isnt bugged!! But you will have to be ready for whichever of the Hordes decides to show up in your eastern border!
A cool faction, I was always looking forward to opening up the game by playing as the HRE first, then as the Russians. Not sure what Im going to do next, could be practically anyone, thinking about Hungary, Denmark, France, England or Byzantium.
Please do :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander: The hellenic empire
Also, in accordance with the other posts here, I think the Romans SHOULD get the chance to train gunpowder units. This IS a game of changing history (come on now, the Moors vs. Aztecs!?!), so most definitely the Romans should get gunpowder units in their roster. And from what I've been reading, a patch IS definitely needed for the Varangians and some of their troops (i.e. infantry) need to be beefed up. Are you telling me that an empire thats been around for way over 1000 years, cant get any good spearmen units!?!?!?!
THAT has to be changed.
The medieval aged Romans are an interesting faction to play. I hope CA doesnt ignore these calls of reforms, so the Romans don't carry this view of decadence around that most people seem to believe.
:2thumbsup:
Regarding crusades being called on Constantinople, read the first post in this thread: Diplomacy thread
I'm playing as Byzantium and saw my relations with the Papacy drop from Reasonable to Terrible in a very short time while fighting the Hungarians and Venice. The sacking/extermination of catholic cities and castles combined with demanding ransom for prisoners didn't help I'm sure.
Now, following the very useful advice given in the thread linked above I've got the Papacy on a 100 florin per turn for 15 turns which has rapidly increased my standing with the Pope. I also gift them some map information and occasional 500 florins every now and then. In just four turns I'm up to Reasonable again! That should save me from any crusades right? I've also decided to bribe the HRE hoping that they will maintain our alliance so that I don't have to deal with them at the same time as the Mongols are going to start appearing...
byzantium units looks awful id rather play the turks or egypt.
It is true, such an empire should have better armies.
Its a pity.
I hope CA do something about it.
Anyway can you please specify whats wrong with the Varingian guard because I have never got them yet. How can I get them?
And why are they not well done? Whats wrong with them?
:duel:
Yeah, Byzantium is basically a watered down version of the Turks, only without muskets.
You build them in the highest level barracks in a huge city. What's wrong with them is two things, a minor problem and a major problem. Both problems are related to their attack animations. The minor problem is that their attack animation is vvvvveeeerrrrrryyyyy sssssllllloooooooowwwwwwww. As a result, while they kill a lot of enemy infantry on contact during a charge, the enemy kill about 2-3:1 after the contact because they attack faster. The major problem is they don't attack mounted troops AT ALL after the initial charge. The unit leader model will attack, but the rest of the unit won't. They aren't the only one with these problems. Pretty much all 2-handed weapon units that don't use swords, pikes, voulges, swordstaves or halberds have this issue. I had a Varangian Guard unit vs a mongol horse archer unit while defending a bridge crossing in my Byzantine campaign. I lost 76 out of 90 in the unit, and killed zero...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander: The hellenic empire
I think it makes sense that the Byzantine infantry arn't up to much. From what i've read, although there were a lot of them, they were basically support troops for the cavalry, and then they were mainly archers.
Anyone else get a bug where some Latikon don't have arms? for me, some have the full set, some seem to get one, and some don't get any. Regardless of how many arms they have, they still all have hands though, like Rayman. It happens with mounted and dismounted, and is most distressing.
Also, who else wants to see a special Byzantine Snatch Squad unit? Works like an assassin or a spy, but you get to kidnap the Pope and brainwash him/ransom him/force him to convert to Orthodoxy! That would be awesome, AND historically accurate!
Got a screenshot of that? I too am playing the Byzantines on VH/VH. Its a tough one. Ive managed to buy off Venice to secure my west front while I deal with the Turks. Its already Turn 69 so the Mongols are not far away. I am pretty much screwed when that happens since I dont really have an army to match theirs. All I can do is capture some of the Turk fortresses as quickly as possible and prepare for the worst. And my economy seems to finally be moving again. So yeah, in the course of history, my Byzantium isnt going to last very long.
M2TW is not Civ4 so you don't have an equal chance to makeover every faction you play. You can't, for example, play as Aztecs and make them discover gunpowder first, like you can in a Civilization game; M2TW is primarily a war game and limited in this respect. Thus most factions fit into set "types", based on what CA felt was most "characterful" of their military systems, borrowing a bit from RTS concepts of "boomer" and "rusher" armies. Some, like the Spanish, start with weak infantry and get strong professional armies later. You can cover for this some with merc spearmen and dismounted knights but the main idea is that you play to your strengths and use Jinetes and knights until you get pikes, muskets and swordsmen. Byzantium is pictured as an empire in decline and will stay that way even if you conquer the entire map. You cannot combat your units' gradual slide towards obsolescence because it would go against the faction's established "type" as a fading power in the world. Byzantium in MTW was a rusher too. You had to win early game before your enemies got their late game units and you lost the ability to produce your more powerful units (Varangians disappeared in the Late Period), using your superior early-game units. And while CA is known for taking certain, err, liberties with historical accuracy, even they must be hard-pressed to invent musketeers for a faction that never had a chance to employ them in battle, hence the whole nonsense about the "ancient military lineage" of the Byzantines keeping them from adopting gunpowder.
Ah well, at least I can build carracks from Constantinople now.
Don't know if its historically accurate though. Did they really??Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshwa
But it would definitely be interesting to use such a group. ~D
That pope is frontin' too much. :yes:
The russians are great. No stupid pope telling you what to do. No threat of excommunication. No inquisitors. And armour piercing boyar sons to boot.
BoyarSon! Show me, shoot the troops!
BoyarSon! Show me, charge the Flank!
Russia is pretty great. Dismounted Boyar sons/Druhzina take out feudal foot knights one on one, and dismounted dvor take out chivalric foot knights one on one. Berdiche axemen are extremely cheap, a militia unit, and pack one heck of a punch without any upgrades, not to mention with some armor and experience. One of my favorite parts about russia is the cavalry, especially cossack cav and dvor cav. Tsar guard are also about on par with gothic knights, only cheaper and upgradable. When gunpowder hits, you'll have Cossack musketeers and cannon all the way up to basilisk.
Just about the only things I don't like about russia is the lack of any good archer in between peasant archer and dismounted dvor (made at fortress), and the fact that priests feel nearly useless after converting population because you don't have a papacy to steal.
Some people might be put off by the small unit roster for Russia, but the difference between russia and most western catholic factions is that you'll end up using most of the units on your roster with a smile, as where catholic units tend to replace each other (leaving you with overall about 3-4 units in the end anyways).
If that isn't cool enough, you wont be bored as russia either. Poland will attack you, the mongols are on the way, and not being roman catholic will guarantee yourself quite a bit of fun on the western front. Plus, their color is awesome and all of their units look great.
I'm playing as Russians right now and would echo what Paulta says. My only problem is the uselessness of dismounted druzhina. Since you get dismounted boyar sons first, there's no reason almost to build the dismounted druzhina, since it's a lot easier to manage stacks using only dismounted boyar sons (can combine depleted ones, etc.). I never lack dismounted boyar sons when I want to build them.
I'd also like to add that I love boyar sons. They're there from the start and I've used them the entire game. They're one of the few cavalry units that don't become weak in sieges, since their missile weapon is still very good in city battles, unlike the archer units. Not to mention that the javelins are very, very good against bodyguard units.
I captured Stockholm early so I didn't have that much money problems midway through the game. It's turn 111 and Stockholm is generating 8710 per turn for me. Venice only hit 6k or so during my Venice game and Constantinople, Nicaea and Thessalonica were below 6k (Thessalonica might've hit 6k).
I had a little over 7000 per turn in Constantinople playing Byzantium, so that's a REALLY good money generator there. I had a merchants quarter, docklands, and merchant guild HQ built in the city, too. Must be proximity of other trading ports up there in the Baltic.
When I played Venice, both Nicaea and Thessalonica were better than Constantinople.
I have a merchants' guild hq in Stockholm as well. It's still not at full population. It's at around 30k with 1% growth still. I have 2 farm upgrades and maybe 1-2 public health upgrades left. The extra population will probably add a bit more. I'm upgrading the 2nd to the last merchant upgrade right now and that's probably going to push me above 9k. Stockholm is exporting for around 1900 to Thorn (citadel), 1800 to Stettin (large city, i think) and 1700 to I think Riga (huge city).
Considering people are saying the Russians arnt that bad is there AI retarded or something because in every single campaign ive played as england there always the first or second faction to be eliminated. And there only second because i eliminate scotland so its normally a race to see who dies first. Another reason im asking is the Russian AI thick as ***k is because in my latest campaign i wanted to get a good battle going against Russia (ive never fought them before so i dont even know what there units look like). So i though i know to keep them alive ill give them some money, so basically i cheated and gave myself the maximum amount of money possible 9999999. As soon as i got the money i sent a diplomat over to the russians and got them to allie with me and i gave them all that money. Thing is the stupid russians in the whole game only ever owned 8 to 10 provionces and in the end got there selfs wiped out by the venetians. I just couldnt understand it why with maximum money would the russians do sod all and get there selfs wiped out, is there AI that bad ?.
p.s. Has anyone actually seen the Russians doing anything in a campagin when controlled by the AI.
ive never seen the russians do that badly - they always seem to possess the aproximate borders of modern russia
I overexpanded as the Russians and had to fight Hungary, Poland and Denmark at the same time. I only lost Iasi and was able to retake it later. I barely pulled it off as well. Also, Russia starts only with 1 province so the AI might be taking over the wrong provinces and losing money. At least for Denmark, taking Stockholm is a no brainer and it's very, very rich so the AI does well as Denmark.
The autocalc also underestimates missile cav in field battles. I build missile cav heavy armies with Russia and send my missile cav over and have them shoot up the enemy and cause casualties before having the bulk of my force attack. I bring a lot of them to shoot the AI army from behind. The AI either sits tight and absorbs casualties or chases them around and gets tired.
In my first game as Venice, the Russians were actually doing well at the start and had Poland as a vassal kingdom at one point. They were slowly getting conquered by Hungary when the game ended, though.
Been replaying Russia from the start with two turns a year. I enjoy it a LOT. Nice accents too :)
Those archer units are pretty good, and I agree about the melee/missile combination. It's like you got a two-in-one unit.
It'll be a long time before I get to gunpowder, lol. But I can't wait :)
Speeches are very short as expected, but still they sound quite fun, and emotional.
What I don't like about the Russian campaign is that the regions are big, like in North Africa. This has advantages and disadvantages.
So anyway I had to build watchtowers everywhere along those borders in the rights spots to make sure somebody - whoever(!) - can't make a sneak attack on me :P
Very fun faction to play. I'd recommend it.
Yeah, you end up spending a lot of money on watchtowers to detect rebels and enemy armies... but you also have big territories to "bleed" enemy armies in before they can reach a settlement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijo
And you have lots and lots of horse archers :D
Are the rebel units from one of the Eastern Russian Territories still available to bribe or marry in MTW2?
I can't remember what territory or what the unit name was, but I saw them in MTW 1. I do remember that they were similar to Katatanks, were some type of Royal Bodyguard and were followers of Judaism prior to bribery.
Of course I found it odd that a band of Royal Bodyguards were living out in the middle of nowhere in a rebel territory though. :inquisitive:
I tried playing as the Byzantines, and I thought they should have had an annoying Patriarch as a thorn in their side.
Here are three Emperors particularly attacked by the Church.
Leo the Wise got a warning of excommunication from the Patriarch for trying to remarry after his wife died.
Nicephorus Phocas got told point blank while on military campaign against Jihadist forces that he and his men still shed blood, and therefore could never be considered martyrs and that the best they could hope for is being forgiven, and when the campaigns ended and Nicephorus Phocas returned home to ask for the Church to change it's position he was refused, and shortly got killed by an angry pro-Church mob.
Constantine Paleologus while trying to organize a defence of Constantinople by luring Western Soldiers to defend the city by appeals to christian solidarity and offering to begin talks of reconciliation if the siege was won had to deal with Gennadios who caused some riots and very high unrest.
The full list is much longer, but as you can see the Patriarchate was a very annoying thing Byzantine Emperors had to deal with, and it would be fun if Byzantines had to deal with it in the game.
Yeah, true. Oh, and how I'm gonna bleed 'em :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashi
Horse archers are nice, unless the enemy has 'em too. Poland is bugging me with those Polish Nobles who are VERY ANNOYING. I hate it when the enemy uses missile cavalry. So I just group two or three units of my own missile cav and have 'em charge and overwhelm theirs. Pretty nice how they shoot while charging at them. Or is it: pretty nice how they charge while shooting at them? lol :)
I'll toss in a quick note about the Russians.
Personally, I'm having trouble seeing ANY weakness in them, apart from the starting position. They have good line infantry (Spearmen, granted they aren't spectacular, but still), good shock troops (Berdiche Axemen), good backbone infantry (D Druzhina, D Boyar Sons), quality ranged units (Crossbow Militia, Dismounted Dvor) and one of the best gunpowder infantry units in the game, Cossack Musketeers.
Combine solid infantry with a frightening selection of cavalry types (4 types of HA's, quality melee cav) and cannons (Basilisks), you have a devastating selection of troops. The only thing Russia lacks are Serpentines imo. Even the campaign starting position can be overcome by aggressively expaning to Scandinavia.
I actually consider their starting position rather good, because if you expand fast enough you can end up with 6-8 territories without having to fight another faction. Being surrounded by rebels = good.
I was just looking at stats in the custom battle setup, and I felt the need to point out that while many people have been talking about how Vardaratoi are immensely powerful, Russian Dvor are actually even scarier. The same defense, but one point better in melee attack and ranged attack.
And Russia has other good units to back them up, as opposed to Byzantium's lackluster lineup...