The Nazis or the locals ?
Despite sensationalist tabloid reports of drug crazed maniacs I dont see the Wehrmacht being the efficient fighting machine it was after bogarting the Dutch stash :2thumbsup:
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The Nazis or the locals ?
Despite sensationalist tabloid reports of drug crazed maniacs I dont see the Wehrmacht being the efficient fighting machine it was after bogarting the Dutch stash :2thumbsup:
Read a mention in the Jerusalem Post, but it's up on Wikipedia here.Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
The lawyer, Khaled Kasab Mahameed, was to say,
Quote:
The Holocaust did happen and that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's position of Holocaust denial is wrong. 'Everything that happened must be internalized and the facts must not be denied . . . It is the obligation of all Arabs and all Muslims to understand the significance of the Holocaust. If their goal is to understand their adversary, they must understand the Holocaust.' ... According to Mahameed, ... 'The naqba [disaster] the Palestinians experienced in 1948 is small compared to the Holocaust, but the political implications of the Holocaust have made its terrors a burden on the Palestinian people alone'.
The germans didn't really think it over, once they learned about our tax rates they fled away as far as they could get, and sadly didn't got past Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by monkian
Poor guys, such cool uniforms and still pwned.
Clearly that's why we annexed Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by monkian
Airdrops on the Iranian army will consist of opium. And notes telling them of who controls the supply.
I am having a difficult time understanding how the Holocaust can be denied. I understand why some may want to deny it but I don’t understand how it can be denied without ignoring an overwhelming amount of information.
Ahmadinejad (or Ajay among friends) is regularly updating his blog while at the conference. Evidently, they’re out of dip and David Duke is drunk and abusive.
Not that overwhelming really, if someone can answer some of the questions asked in this 1 hour documentory then please do because I kinda need them.Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdachi
http://reportersnotebook.com/video/d...resolution.wmv
Kinda sounds like the book,"1984", doesn't it? A little rewrite in the history department and ...all gone. Ahmad is just preaching to the choir and won't be making many converts to this story.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
Next up on the convention schedule, "The Myth of the Iraq War" by G.W.B.
Hey, two can play this game.
Haven't got the time to watch that right now (and probably can't be bothered anyway), but it's fairly obvious that 60 years afterwards most of the evidence is from written records and such. However believing that the Holocaust was simply a huge conspiracy set up by the Allies (wich is the only real conclusion if you think that it didn't happen) is ridiculous. People who believe in the so-called Holocaust-hoax are amazingly selective in what bits of written history they want to believe. They're often the same people that believe that the ancient Egyptians where white, that the Carthaginians were Indo-European, that the Romans had a doctrine of racial superiority et cetera. They accuse the mainstream of simply believing what they're told, while the same thing is true for them as well- and they've picked the wrong kind of "historians".Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Welcome back, Hosa :jumping:
Know that's a Christmas surprise ~:)
Well I am not going to allow myselve to be be forced into a position on all this, but it does make for a few valid questions, such as why there was never found any trace of gas in the socalled deathcamps. That is strange, and so is a whole lot more. Honestly, maybe Iran has something here. Mentioned the Anne Frank diary earlier, whose authenticity cannot be questioned, that is weird since some parts are written with a ballpoint, which wasn't commercially introduced untill 1950. I don't know, would prefer a world where somthing like this isn't possible. But I kinda doubt some aspects now as well after reading some of their arguments. I'd say watch the video.
If the premise is correct -Anne Franks diary was written partially with a type of pen that didn't exist at the time- then the conclusion -the diary is fake- is also correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Has it occurred to you though that whoever said that it was written with a ballpoint might be lying, or simply be off-track? How do you determin that anyway, the composition of the ink (unlikely) or handwriting (unreliable)?
I'm also sceptical about the supposed lack of gass traces, but I can honestly not be bothered to look into either of these. I know what sort of people these arguments generally come from.
Very strange people, I was curious about all this and went to a nazi site, you probably know which one, no pleasant company I might add. As it is it is still true, there aren't any gas traces, as was investigated by an canadian chemist that got jailed for his conclusions. Many of the revisionist arguments make too much sense to me, not going to say that they are all nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
Well one could put forth the argument that all Zyklon-B gas was impounded by the Allies upon discovery. Volatile chemical agents are not the kind of thing one leaves lying around, especially if it has any kind of military application (Albert Speer himself cited Zyklon-B's effectiveness as a weapon, during tests it successfully penetrated all Allied gas mask filters of the day). I also believe Zyklon-B is a non-persistent agent which means if left exposed or stored in an unreliable container will eventually dissipate into the air, leaving virtually no trace. That's just my incredibly amateur opinion on the matter though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
As to Anne Frank's diary well even if it's an hoax I fail to see how its lack of credibility could disprove the existence of the Holocaust. It's not as if the Holocaust was an isolated incident that took place at precise place and time. There are simply too many incidents, eye witness accounts, smoking guns, etc. to be found in Nazi occupied territories to dismiss it altogether. And how does one explain the sudden drop in the Jewish and Gypsy populations during the war?
What about photo and video material showing people who are not much more than bones? Are they volunteering actors who decided to starve in order to make some fake pics and movies?
What about huuuuge lists full of names of killed people? Did the allies write them within a few days after the war?
What about tons of Nazi propaganda saying how bad jews were? Did the allies also make that during the few days after the war? And what about the many german survivors, did they maybe help in making themselves look bad and behave as if all that fake stuff really existed?
Those theories are about as believable as saying the Nazis were an early form of teletubbies, please Fragony, don't disappoint me, it can't be that hard to see the truth.~;)
No surprise that Frag managed to find the bollox about ballpoints on a nazi site . Its quite common with those sort of sites .Quote:
If the premise is correct -Anne Franks diary was written partially with a type of pen that didn't exist at the time- then the conclusion -the diary is fake- is also correct.
Has it occurred to you though that whoever said that it was written with a ballpoint might be lying, or simply be off-track? How do you determin that anyway, the composition of the ink (unlikely) or handwriting (unreliable)?
On your next visit there Frag could you ask one of the loonies exactly what the two pieces of loose paper written in ballpoint were ? what part of Anne Franks diary they were ? and why they don't seem to have much in the way of braincells considering they are the master-race ?
It can be questioned , and has been . But of course if you question it in print or broadcast then you can face legal action .Quote:
. Mentioned the Anne Frank diary earlier, whose authenticity cannot be questioned
And so far those who claimed it was fake have had their posteriors handed to them on a platter by courts , historians and forensic scientists
Well, I must be of poor taste also, coz that made me laugh... :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by monkian
Look what I've found while looking around for Zyklon B (didn't know that it was hydrogen cyanide for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Our seemingly "brilliant" scientist making those tests
Someone can confirm these wiki comments if they want to, don't have time atm.
And Spino, there's a lot of gas-canisters of Zyklon B found in the camps. Not even denied by the deniers (although the claim it to been only used for a desinfectant.
Auschwitch
Dachau
Majdanek
But read the above link anyway
I thought I'd heard that Otto Frank made some edits to Anne's diary before it was published. Perhaps he used the ballpoint pen.
EDIT: Wikipedia states otherwise, that the ballpoint stuff was found on two pages added to the diary by investigators. The handwriting is also different.
Thats completely ridiculous.Quote:
It can be questioned , and has been . But of course if you question it in print or broadcast then you can face legal action .
It also makes me question the diary more, as now Im wondering why the government of that country would go to such lengths to keep the text from criticism.
Eh, seems healthy to me. If everything about the Holocaust is such a given, then it can't be such a problem to refute the things they will have discussed at this convention.
I suddenly had a mental image that compared this to an anime convention. I wonder if there was SS cosplay.
Thing is, it's not being held for our benefit, but for the Islamic world. Many, maybe the majority, of Muslims will believe whatever this convention decides is the 'truth'. They would rather believe their own people than the Western or Jewish versions. It's only natural, and who can blame them if they see us as the enemy? Of course, there are many intelligent and knowledgeable Muslims who will see through a verdict that purportedly de-bunks the Holocaust, but I think they will be in a minority or their voices drowned in the uproar of anti-Jewish sentiment. They won't care if some Westerners try to refute the findings of 'their' judgement on the Holocaust.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreBag
This has got nothing to do with the truth, but Politics and Ideology.
Nope it is not ridiculous at all , it is normal .Quote:
Thats completely ridiculous.
It also makes me question the diary more, as now Im wondering why the government of that country would go to such lengths to keep the text from criticism.
If you wanted to publish some rubbish for example saying george Bush is a lying scumbag and he molests chimps . Then you can be taken to court where you will either have to prove that what you have written is true or face the legal consequences .:yes:
But since you seem to think that people being sued for writing bullexcrement is a reason to believe the bullexcrement more it does make me wonder how your mind works ?????????:dizzy2:
This is pure conjecture, but I would guess that the guy has a narrow definition of "Aryan" in mind and therefore must cream his jeans when he hears "Land of the Aryans"... :yes: :2thumbsup: :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBob
I guess you dont live in the US.Quote:
Nope it is not ridiculous at all , it is normal .
If you wanted to publish some rubbish for example saying george Bush is a lying scumbag and he molests chimps . Then you can be taken to court where you will either have to prove that what you have written is true or face the legal consequences .
I can go to Borders and find about 30 books filled with lies and distortions about the Bush administration. Google Michael Moore.
In the same store I can find books that suppose all manner of things related to WW2 with little to no backing other than conjecture.
^Which is why I find it strange that one could be prosecuted for questioning the authenticity of a diary.
Facts should speak for themselves in a historical debate. Government prosecution should never be used to prevent certain opinions. Isnt that oddly nazi-esce?
Yep and the publisher will have gone to great lengths with its own legal advisors that anything contained in those cannot be fought in a court action.Quote:
can go to Borders and find about 30 books filled with lies and distortions about the Bush administration. Google Michael Moore.
If they do discover anything that they missed before printing that could lead to a lost law suit then they pulp the whole edition .
edit to add .Which is why I find it strange that one could be prosecuted for questioning the authenticity of a diary.
They are not prosecuted for questioning the authenticity , they are prosecuted for falsely claiming they had proof it was fake .
Can you see the difference ?
Then this is hardly news - Jews hate Arabs and Arabs hate Jews. The record's been looping for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Peasant
:laugh4: Thanks Dâriûsh. That was hysterical. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dâriûsh
Welcome back Hosa! :2thumbsup:
Apart from the additional pages being added after the fact. And that there was fairly explicit pages of Anne longing over a man which her father edited out of the original publication. As for the existence of ball point pens... they were used by the RAF crew during WWII as they were better at high altitude...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
As for the gas... even the manufactures of it admitted to suppling it. Also not finding traces of it in the walls of the gas chambers... is that the one where they took samples from the recreated gas chambers because the original ones were demolished?