Disgusting...

OMG guys I know any problems with the game, whether it was due to lack of testing OR lack of "time" to fix the bugs, is mostly or entirely the fault of Sega or whoever the "suits" are that make the decision.

Either they didn't allow them time to test, or they didn't allow them time to fix what they knew was wrong. It's irrelevant to me since the result is the same. I did not mean to say or imply that I had anything against the developers (or testers) themselves, b/c I know the boss(es) tell them what to do.

The point of all this is to voice my dissatisfaction with the decisions made (regardless of who made them or why) and let them know if it doesn't get fixed soon and stop happening, I will stop talking on the forums and start talking with my wallet. Hopefully the people who call the shots will get wind of this post and other posts which is they are made.

P.S. When people respond with "Its ok, stop complaining, the game is fun anyway and the mods fix those problems" all it does is encourage those decision makers (who don't care about the finished product) to keep cutting corners are putting out half baked products.

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Originally Posted by Satyr

Yeah, the other 90% are 12 years old and too blinded by the pretty soldiers to notice the bugs (I pre-apologize to all you really bright 12 year olds who kick my butt online - and post here).

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So....pretty....

A large number of people complain here to make themselves feel better, and it just ends up as a flame war.

The solution for some people is go back to RTW...but in that cav can run the entire battlefield just charging and charging. The campaign map and not good looking models make it unplayable for me.

Then there are the people that say RTW with mods is the way to go.

What mods? RTR gold? RTR PE? EB? SPQR:TW? Ive tried them all, yet i cant stop playing M2TW.

The fact is, if you look at it, (forewarning, this is quoting another member, i do not know 100% for the following to be true)

Shogun was revolutionary. Medieval was same engine, Rome was revolutionary, Medieval 2 was same engine... All signs look towards new engine for new game (not xp pack for medieval 2)

Going by the multiple threads all over the net, Pike and Musket era, with sea battles like trafalgar will be the most popular.

We will see, but please, to the new people who come here and their first post is complaining on the game, dont. We have enough of these threads.
I think Simon(econ) should just lock everyone of them, but that is only one members opinion.:shame: :no:

- As far as worrying about graphics v. gameplay, I am about 25/75. I don't want to feel like I am playing a game that is 10 years old, but as long as it looks decent, its good enough. A game that is pretty but not fun will not last anywhere near as long in my dvd-rom drive as one that looks pretty good and is a lot of fun.

Games that don't last long in my dvd-rom drive dont have their xpacs/sequels purchased. I don't buy games just to play them for a few days before I'm done. It needs to have more life than that. The shortest game I have ever enjoyed that I would continue buying in the series is Hitman.

- Going back to RTW? Maybe. Usually once I'm done with a game, I am done with it. I quit RTW to play this, so its unlikely that I will go back (well actually I had slacked off a lot on RTW in favor of Hitman and Oblivion off-and-on).

- I hope the next game is revolutionary, but I am mostly concerned with whether or not the game will be finished when it is released. After this game, if its not, I will retire the TW series for good and I would rather not have to do that.

- I really like the late era with pikes and professional armies and gunpowder One of the biggest things missing from this game IMO is the ability to start in the High and Late eras.

- I don't know if you are referring to me or not, but if you check my registration date, you will see I am not exactly new. I was here a good while before that too under another name, but I forgot the password and the email account I used to register it was no longer active.

- Good forum moderation is minimal moderation. No one likes it when mods are constantly editing or removing posts that someone may not like. A forum is a place where people can go to discuss their views and opinions openly. Heavy censoring does not further that goal. It is true however, that in todays society, there are a lot of sensitive people that are offended by words, phrases, and topics. Also the anonymity of the internet encourages people to be a lot ruder and bolder than they would probably ever be IRL. So there must be mods present to clean up "smut" and curb flames. However, it should never be allowed to spill over into deleting posts that have any negative views or censoring people who are new any more than older members. A person's registration date or number of posts does not make their opinions any more or less valid.

So . . . am I the only one who can play a game with a shield bug, and still have fun?

Or who thinks that every game released in the past ten years has gone through this exact same thing as a nigh-inevitable consequence of games becoming more rich and complicated, and that talking with my wallet would inevitably lead to giving up gaming altogether?

No, a lot of people are playing. I still play with mods, but less and less.

Its been said in this thread alone multiple times that every game does and will continue to have bugs. I don't think I have played a game in the last 10 years without bugs either.

The problem is that the bugs in this game are so large and serious. It would be like if a first person shooter had a bug that wouldn't allow half of the guns to hit the target at all, or a fighting game that wouldn't allow you to use a large portion of half the character's moves.

Most bugs in other games are relatively minor and/or only occur under certain circumstances. The few times there are serious bugs like this, they have been fixed almost immediately. I can't recall offhand any game I have ever played that has had this many serious bugs.

i agree whole heartedly with what you are saying. i too have played every singel TW game and have been a fan for about 6-7 yrs. this is the only game that i can say is mediocre, that is all it is and if they dont fix this problem thene i wont buy anymore TW games and the new gaming comp i got will just rot.

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Originally Posted by TopHatJones

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The problem is that the bugs in this game are so large and serious. It would be like if a first person shooter had a bug that wouldn't allow half of the guns to hit the target at all, or a fighting game that wouldn't allow you to use a large portion of half the character's moves.

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While I can see that as an analogy for the two handed animation problem that has been fixed (for the time being), it rings a bit false for shields. The units still work, they just don't do something they are (allegedly) supposed to do. It's more of a balance issue, than anything else. It's common in this sort of game, and you just have to roll with it, plan around it, and re-evaluate your tactics when they fix it.

I agree with the need for better support. Having another patch right now would be nice, but I’m not going to hold my breath, or threaten them with money I might not have given them anyway, for all they know.

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I can't recall offhand any game I have ever played that has had this many serious bugs.

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Really? This game works out of the box, is compatable with common video cards, and is decently stable. That's more than I can say for some of the games I've bought. I've spent weeks trying to get some games just to start up right.

That last statement rings true.
Took me 2 weeks to get Starwars battlefront 2 to work.

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- I don't know if you are referring to me or not, but if you check my registration date, you will see I am not exactly new. I was here a good while before that too under another name, but I forgot the password and the email account I used to register it was no longer active.

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No I am not referring to you, just voice-ing my concern over the amount of people who sign up here and bag the game.

I admit, there are some bugs, but its still fun.

The modding here is excellent, i just dont want this turning into a spam war, as many other threads of this nature have.

Now if you'll excuse me, ive got to convince another person to not post how much they think this game is bugged/crap/worthless

The two bugs that really affect gameplay are the 2H bug and the VnVs and retinue characters. Now, there are tons of fixes for that one. as for VnVs, i honestly dont mind, and if i did, there are aquite a few fixes for that too.

As for the shield, the game is balanced taking in account that bug, soit doesnt change anything. some units are underpowered, but you simply have to learn who they are and how to use them.

I'll make an analogy with Battlefield 2, an FPS on which i spent countless hours.

this game had so many installation/patching bugs got me, i had to take a break of about 4 or 5 months before they released a new patch (with a new installer) that i could instla. the patches before that required me to unpack the patches and run a dos command to make it work.

Yet, that game was still awesome. why? because i had lods of funs playing it. sure, there were these annoying technical bugs; yet, i always came back for more. (For the record, I have now switched to Battlefield 2142, its sequel, because i prefer its gameplay, and the installation works proprely for that one.)

And now your telling me that gameplay bugs that only change the real value of a small number of units and are easily fixable (or avoidable) makes you feel this game is total crap?

I've been disappointed as well.

When I buy a game, I want to play a finished product. I don't want to have to hunt around on forums downloading tidbits here and there to fix each problem that pops up.

Now, no - most of the bugs posted about on these forums, I didn't know they were there until somebody did some testing and figured out what was wrong. But I knew SOMETHING was wrong. I don't want to have to decipher cryptic behavior patterns behind how each unit works. If a unit is listed as "Spearmen", I want it to be able to kill horses. If a unit is listed as "Pikemen", I want it to poke things that can't reach it. If a unit is listed as "Two-Handed Whatever" I want it to dish out tremoundous amounts of pain to anything and everything.

I don't want to have to sit around wondering why my units with bigger numbers than the foe, can't beat them. I want these things to work intuitively.

I want to spend my time figuring out clever ways to use my units and my armies and my agents. Not spend it trying to figure out what exactly it is my units do, because the numbers and descriptions attached to them are useless.

When I bought the game I was excited - I played the game a good deal for a couple weeks - I started constructing guides for various portions of the game... but the more I played it, the more I found things not working the way I instinctively expected them to work. I got frustrated. I didn't know what was wrong - I just knew things weren't working correctly. I haven't played the game in a month or more now.

I'm hoping the second patch fixes these issues. And if it doesn't, I'm hoping they're already making plans for a third one that will. I'm simply very frustrated. I spent 50 bucks, and I want to play a finished game. I want the game to make sense. I don't want to have to install a patchwork of mods.

CA, Sega, whoever - finish the damn game would you?

I'm not going to make stupid claims - I'll probably still buy the expansion and the next Total War game. I just wish I didn't have to wait until six months after I bought it to get an enjoyable experience.

Message to whiner: Grow-up.

[Oh boy, I am so asking for it. :D]

Just because there are a handful of gameplay bugs doesn't mean the game isn't finished. It IS finished, it just needs so fine-tuning, as most strategy games tend to.

You want to see what an unfinished game looks like? Check out Enter the Matrix, where the last level can be beaten by holding the mouse button down and setting still.

Try Star Wars: KOTOR 2, a game that stalls on the beefiest computers, has a plot that actually stops before the end of the game, and only got one patch before the P.O.'ed developers gave up on the game entirely.

Take a look at almost any licenced game ever published by EA, outside of the sports genre, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Malkut

Try Star Wars: KOTOR 2, a game that stalls on the beefiest computers, has a plot that actually stops before the end of the game, and only got one patch before the P.O.'ed developers gave up on the game entirely.

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Thanks, you just stopped me buying it :laugh4:

Message to whiner: Grow-up.

[Oh boy, I am so asking for it. :D]

Yeah, you are. Dont bag people, especially when a mod has Told everyone to keep it civilised, no calling of whiners, saying that they should stop crying.

And triple so because you havent been here this long.

Be veeeeery good for the next few weeks :shame:

it already says enough that a game needs to go to patch 1.6...

I'm sorry, but all those people that call other people whiners just because they espect something good for their money is rather stupid... When I buy a game I atleast expect that they gave a full hundred percent to make it as good as it can... and I don't doubt the developers... I will immediatly believe that they tried that, but the bosses only concern is to get it out for christmass...

WELL I BOUGHT THE GAME ONE DAY AFTER NEW YEAR! BACK AT YA... buncha*&%^$#@!!

Atleast half these bugs could have been discovered by giving the game for betatesting to a 1000 coveting gamers, they prolly wouldnt even ask money for (well $50, a free game)... just a month more time... just a month...

Well one obvious thing is, if the in game descriptions and guides do not match the actual in game abilities of the units, the product isn't finished.

And if the game takes 6 months to make work the way it was advertised... not counting a bug or two or a few bad units, but just have its general components and categories work together the way they should... by the time 6 months is up the game will be on the shelves for $20-30. Having purchased it at $50, and having to wait til the price drops for it to play as intended... yeah I will feel a little cheated if that turns out to be the case. Not only does it feel like we are helping to finish beta test the product we bought, but then it'd feel like we paid extra for the privilege to do so.

And to be honest, I'm more aggravated because I like the game, and I like TW games; most games that have given me issues anything like this in the past have ended up thrown out. CA is spending their credibility with me for the moment... and to be honest, til things are more complete I can't in good faith recommend this game to a friend. And I'd really like to. I'm hoping after the 2nd patch I'll be able to. If I recommend it to a friend but to not feel like I'm misleading them I have to say "But the halberds and pikemen can't fight horses, the peasants trounce spears, oh and the extra defenses you buy for your castles won't work..." I've just lost CA a sale by telling them that.

And it is a bit like an FPS where half the guns don't work... and then having a bunch of players say it's ok it's like that because half the enemies can't attack you either; obviously it's "balanced". ~D

@A.Smith:

The problem with your last line is that in reality it isn't JUSI a few units, I think peasents are the ONLY unit in the game somone HASN'T found a bug for, and I wouldn't be suprised if a bug turned up on them at this stage.

@SMZ: You hit my thoughts on the head. I really, really, really, enjoy the game, but it's covered in massive bugs.

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

Thanks, you just stopped me buying it :laugh4:

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Well, the beginning is kind of slow, and the end is made stupid by omission, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the middle. Can't say I felt too cheated, since it's still on my hard drive.

No, what really tore me up about that game is what's inside the game files. The cut content.

That last planet with no plot? It was going to be freakin' EPIC. Betrayal, love, death, revenge, redemption, an all HK-47 level, for pity's sake . . . . why didn't Obsidian just personally come to my house and spit in my face? That would be better than cutting anything regarding HK-47! :furious3:

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Well one obvious thing is, if the in game descriptions and guides do not match the actual in game abilities of the units, the product isn't finished.

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That's an odd standard for completion to suggest. Especially since guides are often wrong on some of the details, being written, as they often are, from pre-release versions of the game.

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CA is spending their credibility with me for the moment

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This is what really annoys me, however. CA is owned by Sega, now. Sega decides when to put out the game, not CA. I doubt the game makers suddenly decided that they hate you personally and wanted to hurt you on purpose by releasing the game before all of the kinks had been worked out.

The only part of this I can see CA being culpable for is removing the 2H animations when fans complained. They should have spent less time listening to people whine on the Internet, and more time fixing the game for the final release, moreso now that people are complaining about their attempt to fix something that was never actually broken in the first place more than they were about the inital problem. That they're willing to do something that obviously stupid for you should give you an indication about how much they care about their fans.

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And it is a bit like an FPS where half the guns don't work...

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No, it's not. The only units that don't work are the two handed weapon ones, and that's been fixed. The rest of them do work. There may be some tactical balance and formation issues, but they can kill and they can die, so they work on most of the levels I need them for. It's certainly not worth going into histrionics over, and I can't see why so many of you are doing just that.

My money has not been wasted, because M2TW has become the first TW game that I have not bought and have no intention of buying. The state of RTW on release was a shock to someone who had played STW and MTW, and the patches that were supposed to fix it were also poor. Now, with RTW clearly "disowned" in terms of ongoing support and updates, there are still at least three noticeable, significant hardcoded bugs, all of which were introduced by the patches rather than being solved by them!

I made up my mind after that that I wouldn't buy M2TW unless it was clear that CA had done a more professional job this time. It seems clear they haven't, so this seems like a good point to stop following the franchise.

I appreciate that they have publishers and that publishers call many shots, but that excuse is wearing a bit thin after going through two different publishers. While CA did a great job on STW and MTW, I believe they are just too small a team to achieve their grandiose dreams where RTW and M2TW are concerned. They dedicate such a massive proportion of their energy and manpower to shiny new graphics that they have none left over to concentrate on ironing out the eye-poppingly big bugs in gameplay. I gladly give CA credit for the early development of what was a fantastic franchise, but that means they also have to take some of the blame for its decline in quality.

Dont worry fellow orghians, for I shall rise up and work for CA one day, then all the gameplay problems will be fix-ed!

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No, it's not. The only units that don't work are the two handed weapon ones, and that's been fixed. The rest of them do work.

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Please read around. The_Foz_4 has pointed out the shield bug, Dopp has pointed out the Pike bug, and after fixing all 3 issues I’ve found that 2-handed swordsmen are also bugged with a too slow attack animation. the ONLY UNIT in the game WITHOUT A BUG is peasants, and that’s because they don't have pikes, 2-handed weapons or a shield

Am i the only person here who can still have fun playing a game that isn't perfect?

I judge value for money based on fun, not on perfection...

Oh, and Zuraffo and others; let's not go back to flaming - keep this civilised.

Well, a lot what has already been said makes a lot of sense. Sure, there are quite some bugs in the game, but I can still have a good time playing it. Knowing tons of mod's fixing quite a lot of not-so perfect things in the game are released, or are still in the making, doesn't make me regret buying the game at all.

Plus, having played 1.0 Rome, Medieval, and all of the expansions. I can say that in my opinion the vanilla version of M2TW beats that of Rome by a long shot. Anyone remember the load / save bug (or whatever the name was?) or the Egyptian faction ? Now those are game breaking factors which I believe outweigh the ones seen in M2TW by a lot.

That said, I wonder how many people here (especially those who seem to dislike the game, as it is) consider the last thing I said (Rome vanilla <. M2TW vanilla) as true, or untrue ?

Because if one finds that true, then we can only conclude CA did listen to us on numerous occasions, like one can gather from the credits shown in M2TW.

Not saying they made the perfect vanilla game, but in my opinion they did do their best to improve it.

:balloon2:

@Mal Yeah and the castle defenses don't work... the 2h and shield units aren't working correctly... those are entire classes of units, and together compromise the majority in the game. It's a LOT like I said. You act like it's one thing, it's not. Bribing doesn't work. Alliances are either bugged or nerfed. The list is actually pretty long and extensive.

And for the record, read my WHOLE sentence Mal, I said "in game descriptions and guides", which I shouldn't have to tell you refers to the ones... you know... in the game. That is, being actual portions of the game itself the things they describe and recommendations they give SHOULD be accurate as they weren't print ahead of completion. I am familiar with printed manuals having differences from finished games, I've been a computer gamer since the 80's. But not having in game description and tutorial match the in game realities is just... sloppy. And downright unprofessional.

I just found the game crashes if I switch programs during video play... Now THAT is a bug, and if it went unfixed I could really care less; it's generally inconsequential to actual play. Not so with these other things.

This isn't like "avoid kerns because they can't throw missiles without getting stuck in a loop" or a bug with a single particular unit, it's entire categories that are apparently incomplete/bugged. And for the record, 2h is NOT "fixed". No patch has fixed it yet. Only community mods have negated it, but it isn't "fixed" as CA/Sega haven't released a fix yet. You can't defend CA/Sega on that one, as they have little to do with anyone using fully functional 2h in game... yet.

Like I said, if I have to wait until the game's price has dropped before the majority of units work as intended, then I do feel a bit cheated.

Well, I'm also one of those people who can enjoy the game with bugs, tbh. Shield bug schmield bug I say. Didn't even notice the damn thing, and to be even MORE honest, I hardly zoom in while battling, so I don't really notice the 2h bugs and other faulty stuff THAT much. See it was a way of ignoring things to keep your cool.
I don't enjoy the "constant total war" aspect (bad diplomacy) and some other stuff too, like bad sprites. I didn't know horses could strafe-run, ya know. And so fast too! Heck, they can even FLOAT just above the ground! They must be magical horses. And most units seem to have some kind of chameleon power, I dunno. Do they change color so they'll be better noticed? :beam:

:whip: Fix the sprites, CA.

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Originally Posted by TopHatJones

- I hope the next game is revolutionary, but I am mostly concerned with whether or not the game will be finished when it is released. After this game, if its not, I will retire the TW series for good and I would rather not have to do that.

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Are you sure about that? I can very well imagine people thinking this, but usually when it comes down to it they'll just get it anyway :P

You cannot have a good tactical warfare game if certain bugs or apparent bugs effect what would be reasonable tactical decisions, you can still enjoy the game but look how far we have moved away from MTW1.

I must admit that I agree with the OP. I bought MTW2 on release, and was initially very impressed, as the graphics are much better than R:TW.

However, I quickly became frustrated with the units not doing what I expected them to (charging badly, engaging the enemy in dribs and drabs, a peasant crossbow unit massacring three units of spear militia in close combat, billmen being useless). I also found it annoying that the Inquisition slaughters my generals and priests with ease (regardless of my status with the Pope) and seem immune to assassins (and if this is a feature it is an ill-considered one).

The first patch doesn't seem to have sorted much of this, although I haven't had any CTDs since I installed it. I hope the second one does.

Having said all that, I was frustrated with R:TW when it first came out but I now enjoy playing v1.5 very much. There are still some issues, but nothing major. Perhaps this will prove the case with MTW2.

For me, the key issues are two-handers (which spoils the tactical game) and Inquisitors (which spoil the strategic game).

Which is why I hardly use 2h units, and if I have 'em, I don't want to see 'em. I just use 'em as filler. But I am FINALLY going to try out Lands to Conquer now that I've seen a versio 2.0.

How can you use Varangian Guard as filler, How can they say that the best byzantine unit is Varangian Guard. What is the point in playing as the Byz when one of their coolest unit isnt working properly. How can you not notice that your Varangian Guard is getting beaten by spear militia?

Just saying they improved is already good enough would only work if they were already above standard. RTW was indead worse than M2TW but that doesnt mean that M2TW is great. Its like the first time you buy an apple and its totally rotten and you go back and buy a new one, oh this one is only half rotten, well thats an improvement... ill just eat them both... I want a non rotten apple. And if the overal taste is good i wont mind those little spots...

Saying that you dont zoom in during battles that much, and that you do that to not get pissed of and just ignore the bad things to keep it cool is totally stupid... Not that you are being stupid or whatsoever... but then they might as well not made such cool graphics because people dont zoom in anyway because due all the bugs they wont enjoy the game anymore... so than whats the point of all those graphics?

The fact that u will not use a unit because it is broken is already a reason to complain, when it is only one unit its accepteable... BUT EVERY UNIT EXEPT PEASANTS ARE BUGGED...

Well, I never play Byzantine, so I wouldn't care. Though, in terms of product(ion) quality and community support I'd care. I might try them out, the Byzantines.

Anyway, I usually not have many 2h units in my armies, . I try to have as many spears and swords as possible, missiles, and cav. But now I'm anxious to try out the 2h bug fix by zxiang. Never bothered to install a fix :P

The point of those graphics? The nice graphics are there to be a feast to the fools' eyes. It's as simple as that. There are enough people who get carried away by graphics, and additionally they might not even notice bugs because of it.

It's not that I'm not mad or angry, or that I don't complain (actually I'm quite calm with these matters, unless it's about M$ and Apple).... it's just necessary to ignore certain aspects and relocate your attention to be able to enjoy the game.

Anyway, take it easy, Stranger. Think about your heart and try to enjoy the game :bow:

:P I'm easy... im totally relaxed...

:fool: