There's really no need to juice up at all when you're playing at the Phillies' park.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
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There's really no need to juice up at all when you're playing at the Phillies' park.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Excellent point and that brings up the next part of the whole "tainted" affair. Parks are a LOT smaller than they were when my main man Hank was smacking balls out of stadiums. I can only imagine what Hank could have done with the smaller parks, juice, and the lack death threats from rednecks.
I do need to take to task the originator of this threads characterization of Americans' opinion on Bonds. Just because ESPN hangs off this cheaters jock strap like George Michaels in a public restroom doesn't mean that the average baseball fan does the same. I was at the Gateway Grizzlies (Pioneer League, good baseball BTW) game when Bonds hit 755. Everyone boo'd and I mean EVERYONE. Bonds hit his 756 in front of his San Fran-sicko fans. Thats why he got all the cheers. Of course its fitting that he plays in that morally depraved cesspool of a city anyway where there is probably the same amount of bath house attendance as there were in the stadium that night. So no, I would say the majority of American baseball fans weren't to thrilled seeing Barroids hit that jack.
Barry should go die in a fire.
Sincerely,
An American baseball fan.
lol. Yall make it sound like the roids made Bonds a player! He was an automatic 1st ballot guy even before he started jacking them! I also think yall are pretty naive about anabolics. Why does no one talk about Ripken? Or Farve? Guys who play for 16 17 years straghit and dont get hurt! What a miracle! Allot more guys are on these drugs and just be taking anabolics dont not make you better it increases test levels and aids in recovery time but you still hafto bust balls. Sportwriters with an axe to grind are not your best place to get roid info and neither is the news but hey its on TV so it must be true right?
Ripken sucked, Strike. Farve was an admitted drug abuser. Bonds is a sanctimonious cheater. All three, can go jump in a fire.
Sincerely,
Joe Shmo paying 50$ to be at the yard
Ripken played 2358 straghit games and had 3000 hits me lady. Frave is amazing and Joe Shmo wants to see 450 ft home runs not the good ol game. We want to see great athletes they want to stay as long as possible. Supply meet demand
This why I hate sports. That and the bordom of trying to watch them played.
He was a member of the 40-40 club before the steroid scandel...it takes a lot more than steroids to make you a good player. People give him to much **** for it. If the giants had one the world series it would be more of an issue, but this is just a number.
If someone is taking steroids to gain an unfair advantage in a competitive sport then they are cheating and therefore not great. I want to see how well a person can do not what a chemist can make happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
If you want a steroid even then it is no longer sport, it might be entertainment... but since the wrestling guys can't even beat a Panda :laugh4: , I find it hard to respect them too.
They will never win with Bonds and no team he goes to would ever win it either. I saw an intervue of him back in 93 (man, his head looked normal then!!!) with Peter Gammons. He talked about ever since t-ball, he had never won the big one. Since the guy was 4!!! He is a cursed man and would explain possibly his attitude regarding his attitude towards teammates, the media, and the fans. He has only himself it seems. In a way its sad but I don't have much compassion for the man. Anyway, Bonds is a one demintional player now. When he was with Pittsburg he was an exciting 4 out of 5 tool player (his arm sucks, see Sid Bream beating out his throw from left field in 92... Go Braves!!!) and a blast to watch. He's as boring as Mark McGuire now and barely worth watching. God I miss 80's baseball like when the Cards had Coleman, Ozzie, and Willie. That was exciting ball. Homeruns were special then.:no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Great to see that the benchmark for sporting standards is so great. :2thumbsup:Quote:
"Say what you want about Bonds, but he's not a murderer, or even an attempted murderer," San Francisco Chronicle reporter and co-author of Game Of Shadows Lance Williams wrote in Sunday's edition. "The only thing I believe Bonds did was inject himself with Winstrol, Deca-Durabolin, insulin, testosterone, synthetic testosterone, testosterone decanoate, human growth hormones, Norbolethone, Trenbolone, Clomid, and possibly commercial racehorse laxatives, all in order to make himself a better athlete. Not to allow himself to gut-shoot a gentleman's club bouncer, but to become a better athlete. A better athlete…it doesn't seem so bad when you think about it like that."
"It's a relief of sorts to see someone putting performance first," Frank Deford said in a New York Times Magazine editorial Sunday. "I think we all believe that Barry has taken steroids, and that they made him into a hulking monster who rewrote the record books. But they didn't turn him into a hulking monster who drugged his wife and children into unconsciousness before strangling them to death and hanging himself from a weight bench. And in these troubled times, Bonds' performance is one we can all reluctantly applaud."
I think he is one of the greatest baseball players of all time as I said in my initial post. By your logic I would have no honor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I also find it odd how none of the detractors here post thier evidence of his cheating.
Its dishonorable to accuse someone on circumstantial evidence no matter how overwhelming it might be. In addition to that it is dishonorable to dismiss that persons achievements with one broad brush based on the same assumption.
Bonds maybe the villian but having a good knowledge of steriods and thier ability to enhance myself, I know his achievements, not just the homerun record, are monumental on any barometer, even the ones held by those on the highest of moral pearches.
Again, the people playing against him were doing just as many steroids as Mr. Bonds.
Dave, Prole: And I'd like to see YOU hit just ONE home run. You may use as many steroids as you wish in pursuit of this goal.
The thing I don't like is that people seem to forget that he is one of the best home run hitters of all time with or without steroids. He doesn't deserve the all time record but records aren't important anyway.
I think the thing that galls most folks is being unable to tell where his natural abilities (impressive; hall of fame caliber) left off and his "enhancement via cheating" (which seems generally acknowledged though no formal hearing has confirmed this) takes over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Yes, he is the one who put the sweet spot of a round bat onto the sweet spot of a rapidly moving round ball all those times -- as I have suggested above, I consider this the most difficult of sporting skills. Steroids would have little to do with this.
Steroids would also have little to do with a majority of his home runs. After all, in a majority of instances it matters very little if the ball travels 415 feet or 625 -- its scored the same way.
However....how many homers did he hit that went 365 feet that might've traveled only 338 and been caught as an F9 instead of added to the total. Ruth and Mantle may have been drunks and distracted by celebrity syndrome, but they weren't enhancing their performances thereby. Was Bonds? How much did it matter? We'll never know, and that is vexing.
I guess the thing that makes Bonds look most odd is that he peaked in slugging ability at age 36-40, about 5-8 years after the typical "golden" period for most players. Impossible without enhancers? Off course not. But it just doesn't follow the historical pattern -- and baseball has no problem coming up with historical records.
In the long run, the steroid era accomplished its goal. People are now back at the park and watching games. They even have a nice argument to natter on about -- as baseball wonks love to do. They can point to Ruth's having 7 of the top 25 slugging seasons while Bonds has only 4 and all the other fun minutea of a baseball argument. And all will be good.
Until the next strike malfs it up.
Uh, are we talking about the same sport here? If poor Michael Rasmussen would not have lied about his whereabouts, but would have made himself available for drug testing like he is required to do, then perhaps his Dutch team wouldn't have felt the need to fire his sorry arse halfway through the Tour, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
As for the French complaining...we would complain, wouldn't we? What with his Danish national cycling committee suspending him even before the Tour, but failing to inform the Tour direction about this. Followed by his Dutch team recalling him halfway through the Tour. The French / the Tour direction had little to do with either, except for being outraged at the Danish cycling union for not informing the Tour that there was a suspended Danish cyclist participating, thereby macking a mockery of the most important cycling event of the year.
Armstrong, Armstrong.... No indeed there is no definitive proof he used, let's say, unnatural means. There is no proof that Bonds used some either. (I think?)Quote:
Or what they did to Armstrong, yeah he won the Tour 7 times, and the greatest cyclist ever (Merckx) only did this 5 times, but is that the proof they need to say he uses doping, for the French it is.
I'm sorry to say this Louis, but you French are a sad bunch of people indeed.
Did they use some? Maybe we'll never know but I think I'll join the sad bunch of people who think they did.
On a more positive note, virtually all of Armstrongs competitors have been caught using dope, or have confessed to having done so. So there is no case of Armstrong cheating on his competitors in this respect. So Armstrong IS the greatest cyclist of his generation, with or without doping. He would've been if everybody was clean and he would've been if nobody was clean.
Just like coffee has different effects on different people so do steroids. Also the range and plethora of enhancements available and the covering up agents (which have their own range of side effects) means that it is highly unlikely that they are using the same cocktail of drugs.
Alls fair in Love and War, sports on the other hand should be done on a level playing field (either all have access to the same range of drugs or none), otherwise you might as well have different sets of rules (a handicap system would be cool)... otherwise it should be labeled as entertainment only like a soap... and really when it comes down to it unless you grow up with a sport or a religion it is very hard to understand why people can become primal in their fandom of an athlete... luckily I was exposed to Union, League, Football (Soccer), Cycling, American Football (Gridiron, Rice and Montana :2thumbsup: ), Australian Football (Aerial Pingpong) and quite a few other sports... I understand that they are rough and tough sports, but ever since the Seoul Olympics I can't stand watching track and field because with each record broken you get your hopes up and then you think hmmm I wonder if the chemists can figure out if they are doping or not... strangely though while I find the athletes in The Tour who cheat disgraceful, I am gaining in admiration for the way the officials have gone out of their way to find cheats (unlike the vast majority of professional sports) and I am also gaining in admiration for the sponsors who are yanking out their sponsorship to athletes caught cheating... I would probably support a company more that actually sponsored the anti-doping drug agencies...