Barry Bonds Home run record

[King Kurt]

Sporting greatness or tainted shadow on a once great game???

What do people think?

From this side of the pond, it stinks - last season, he was the villian, tainted with steroids, nobody liked him. Suddenly, he has approached and then yesterday passed a historic sporting milestone and most people seem to have forgotton the chemical enhanced years that brought him to this moment in time. Do American sport's fans really have such short memories or are they such a nation of hero worshippers that anything is celebrated, no matter how that was achieved??

[Peasant Phill]

But every county has its tainted heroes they still worship. I can't think of a British example right now but Lasse Virén (retired runner) is still a very popular figure in Finland in spite of continuing rumours of blood boosting. The same goes for Belgium where Johan Museeuw ( retired bicycle racer) is still immensely popular despite his confession about using doping.

People need heroes and most of them prefer to ignore things that discredit those heroes.

[Odin]

Sporting greatness or tainted shadow on a once great game???

The games been tainted for sometime, he just happens to be the current face of the taint.

Do American sport's fans really have such short memories or are they such a nation of hero worshippers that anything is celebrated, no matter how that was achieved??

hhhmmmmm that sounds rather unpleasant depiction of american sports fans but since your asking let me take a stab.

Most fans here dont like bonds because of the roids, however they respect the fact that prior to his physical enhancements (noticable) he was a great (if not the best) baseball player.

Stats:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Holds record for most home runs in a career (756)
Holds record for most home runs in a season (73)
Holds record for most walks in a career (2,540)
Holds record for most MVP awards (7) and consecutive MVP awards (4); (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04). Note: the current version of the MVP award has been given since 1931. Prior to that year, the League Awards were only given to a player once (from 1922-1929) and sometimes not at all (from 1915-1921).
Holds record for most pitchers homered off (446)
Holds record for most consecutive games with a walk (18)
Shares record for consecutive plate appearances with a walk (7)
Holds record for consecutive seasons with 30 or more home runs (13), 1992-2004
Only player in 400 home run and 400 stolen base club
Only player in 500 home run and 500 stolen base club
One of four players in 40-40 club (40 home runs and 40 stolen bases)
Holds record for most consecutive seasons with .600 slugging percentage or higher (8), 1998-2005
5-time SF Giants Player of the Year (1998, 2001-04)
14-Time All-Star (1990, 1992-98, 2000-04, 2007)
7-Time Baseball America NL All-Star OF (1993, 1998, 2000-04)
3-Time Major League Player of the Year (1990, 2001, 2004)
3-Time Baseball America MLB Player of the Year (2001, 2003-04)
8-Time Gold Glove winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-98)
12-Time Silver Slugger winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-97, 2000-04)
Led the Major Leagues in home runs (1993, 2001)
Led the NL in batting average (2002, 2004)
Led the NL in on base percentage (1991-93, 1995, 2001-04, 2006)
Led the Major Leagues in slugging percentage (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
Led the Major Leagues in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
Led the Major Leagues in on base percentage (1992, 2001-04)
Led the NL in runs (1992)
Led the NL in RBIs (1993)
Led the NL in walks (1992, 1994-97, 2000-04, 2006)
Led the NL in intentional walks (1992-98, 2002-04, 2006)
Led the NL in runs created (1992-93, 2001-02, 2004)
Led the Major Leagues in total bases (1993, with 365)
Led the Major Leagues in runs created (1993, 2001-02, 2004)
Led the NL in games (1995)
Led the NL in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
Led the NL in at bats per home run (1992-93, 1996, 2000-04)
3-Time NL Hank Aaron Award winner (2001-02, 2004)
Led the Major Leagues in batting average (2002, with .370)
Listed at # 6 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Baseball Players, the highest-ranked active player, in 2005.
Named a finalist to the Major League Baseball All-Century Team in 1999, but not elected to the team in the fan balloting.
Rating of 352 on Baseball-Reference.com's Hall of Fame monitor (100 is a good HOF candidate); 9th among all hitters, highest among hitters not in HOF yet.
With his father Bobby, leads all father-son combinations in combined home runs (1,088) and stolen bases (975) through August 7, 2007.

Alot of those achiements were done prior to alledged steriods, and those that were accomplished with steriods were concievably done so against competitors with the same enhancements.

I have 4 of his rookie cards as at one time in my life I collected sports stuff. I am indifferent to the record of homeruns and am more impressed with him when in the 90's he was winning gold gloves, and stealing hundreds of bases.

[King Kurt]

Well I suppose I was looking to get a reaction. The whole affair seems sordid and baseball's authorities seem the biggest failure. Most other sports have had the courage to come down on drug cheats, even at the risk of ruining the sport - this year's Tour de France shows that. But baseball's authorities stood by and watched a few players suddenly increase their ability overnight by using steroids, smashing records by incredible amounts - I read a good article online today that equates Macquire setting the most HRs in a season as somebody suddenly doing a 3 minute mile - and they did nothing about it.

However, the thing that gets me is that last season everybody in the media was down on Bonds - they all seemed to want him to fail and with his injury plagued season it looked like he might retire and the record was safe. This season, he has come back and has broken the record and large sections of the media love him - Yahoo - my main source of baseball info - suddenly had a display on their home page tracking the run in to the record. He even made the BBC TV sports news - with no mention of steroids at all, just the record.

As a Brit, I really enjoy baseball and feel it has a deep and fascinating history. A competition which lasts all summer long is a much more satisfying experience than the normal flash bang quick result that American sport can be. The subtle tactics of the game and its nuances remind me of cricket and its quality has given birth to a rich literature immersed in the tradition and feel of the game. But the whole Bonds thing leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth - it feels like baseball has really let itself down.

Finally - I was not getting at American sports fans - I suspect that the vast majority feel similar things to me - I was really getting at the whole circus that surrounds the sport - they have let this happen despite a lot of public wringing of hands.

So - back over to you guys??

[drone]

Considering that steroids weren't even banned in MLB until 2003, the league itself shoulders most of the blame. This is what you want, this is what you get.

I'm not a Bonds fan, even without roids he was a great player and a total .

[Lemur]

America is all about better living through chemistry. Woman! Bring me my Viagra and my bovine growth hormone!

[Devastatin Dave]

I just feel bad for Hammerin' Hank.
He will always be the HR King.

[KukriKhan]

It may be a record, but it's doomed to forever have an asterisk (*) and footnote in any baseball record book.

It remains to be seen if, ten years from now, in the post-steroid phase of Major League Baseball, a "clean" batter can equal or best Bonds' record.

[Stig]

Shadow? Bad for the sport?
Nah that's all bullcrap. If you don't control on doping, or do it badly, don't complain afterwards.

Bonds might have used some, hell maybe every sportsmen takes some. But that's beside the point.
The worst is the role of the press in something as this. Take poor Michael Rasmussen, the guy was winning the Tour, deserved it. But what did the French do, complain till they got him out. I read L'Equipe, if you do it as well you might have seen the articles, outragious.
Not to mention the ASO, wanting to take the power from the UCI.
Or what they did to Armstrong, yeah he won the Tour 7 times, and the greatest cyclist ever (Merckx) only did this 5 times, but is that the proof they need to say he uses doping, for the French it is. I'm not even beginning about that Richard 'dopage' Virenque of theirs. Yeah but he was French.


I'm sorry to say this Louis, but you French are a sad bunch of people indeed.


[/rant]

[seireikhaan]

Personally, I despise Barry Bonds as a human being. First off, he is in court, actually, though not for 'roids. He's there because he LIED to the court. Gee, Barry, that probably wasn't smart, in retrospect. One other thing that really set me off was a couple years ago. It was right at the start of the season, iirc, and he apparently was fed up with the media. So what does he do? He drags his son out to sit by him, and then goes on this spiel against the media, saying "well, congratulations, you've won. You've finally hurt my family enough." You know what, Barry? Most people don't give a damn about you're family, to be honest. Its YOU, not them, the media's after. And stop trying to make the media the bad guy, you've brought this crap upon yourself.

Also, guys, its not just the power hitters who are/were roiding. I forget the guy's name, but a couple years ago, a shortstop for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays was caught using roids. He'd been in the league about 6 or 7 years. Wanna know how many career home runs this guy had? Two. That's right, two. Even the lead off hitters were/are roiding, which tells me that pretty much most baseball players were/are on the juice.

[Odin]

Even the lead off hitters were/are roiding, which tells me that pretty much most baseball players were/are on the juice.

Agreed, all the more reason to celebrate this achievement it truly is monumental considering he had to do it against guys who were using performance enhancing drugs.

Aaron or Ruth never had to do that.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Note: I have been a baseball fan -- and regrettably a Phillies fan 10k and growing -- for longer than many of you have been alive.

Bonds has accomplished, in its context, an amazing thing. Incredible skill, persistence, and the luck of continued good health all play a role in such a career achievement. It is my sincere belief that hitting a small round leather ball that has been thrown towards you in excess of 70mph (and usually at a trajectory that deviates from the absolute norm as a result of that balls seams) with an even narrower-diameter round wooden bat within a 90-degree arc for a distances in excess of a soccer (football) field's length is arguably the most difficult of all sporting tasks. Bonds has accomplished this repeatedly for his teams. Kudos to him!

As to the perception of "taint:"

No sporting event/league/etc. has ever been free of taint. All of them, throughout history, have reflected the fixations, blind spots, and inequities of their cultures. Baseball is no different.

Helots were not invited to compete at the Olympic games, nor were any of the sons of Cyrus. The most popular event reveled in eye-gouging and arm dislocation. Were those who competed any less champions because their society never thought to make the competition truly open?

Roman charioteers would feed almost ANYTHING to the horses if they thought they could get a win for their leek greens over the hated blues -- and competitors actively attacked one another during "races." It seems likely that many such teams were "doped" to the extent possible with then extant technology. Does this make all of the races "unfair."

Baseball, in the USA, was actively racist for half a century -- since blacks did not play should we discount everything that occurred from 1882-1947?

In the 1880s through the turn of the 20th century, it is distinctly possible that any number of the players were imbibing cocaine -- a popular component in quasi-medicinal tonics of the day -- must all of this be discounted?

Modern players benefit from a radically different medical/nutritional background than players from the "golden age." Does this prevent any comparison or render the efforts of any player invalid?

To look at sports as being somehow "pure," and untainted by the society around it is -- I submit -- inaccurate.


As a baseball fan, I concern myself over differences in the style of the game itself -- makes for lovely what if discussions -- but revel in its consistencies over time.

Bonds may or may not have knowingly broken a rule at some point in his career (and steroids were on a banned substance list long before any testing program was instituted), but absent proof of Bonds having broken those rules, I will simply enjoy his achievement -- and go back to tensely focusing on my Phillies and my hopes that they can pass the Mets and Braves and take their division.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Bonds will reap what he has sown. He himself has stated that this home-run chase was the hardest thing he's ever done. Outside of San Francisco he is still mostly reviled. Yes, he'll have the record, but he'll also have the terrible memories of his pursuit. And he'll only have the record itself for a few years.

Alex Rodriguez, a clean player, just became the youngest person to hit 500 homers. In a few years, ten at most, he will pass Bonds. And he, unlike Bonds or Aaron, will have the overwhelming support of the baseball community behind him.

So enjoy it while you can, Barry. In a few years watch and see how easy A-Rod gets it.

and go back to tensely focusing on my Phillies and my hopes that they can pass the Mets and Braves and take their division.

[Crazed Rabbit]

It's still Hank Aaron for me.

Oh, and GH - I know one rainy city where the fans won't be so happy with A-rod.

CR

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay - outside Seattle, Arlington, and San Fran then.

[Boyar Son]

Sporting greatness or tainted shadow on a once great game???

What do people think?

From this side of the pond, it stinks - last season, he was the villian, tainted with steroids, nobody liked him. Suddenly, he has approached and then yesterday passed a historic sporting milestone and most people seem to have forgotton the chemical enhanced years that brought him to this moment in time. Do American sport's fans really have such short memories or are they such a nation of hero worshippers that anything is celebrated, no matter how that was achieved??

well damn Kurt... if ya dont see ppl on tv 4 a while... ya sorta forget... sheesh... callin me a hero worshiper...

[Papewaio]

If he was found to have used steroids then it should void his stats. If a sport star can't act with integrity and uses drugs then he doesn't deserve any more admiration then a drug user shooting up in a backstreet alley. I don't think pointing out that others cheat makes his success any more admirable, two wrongs don't make a right.

Anti-hero worship away. But a great man is not one who has access to a better medical cabinet. It is also sending mixed messages to the kids, hey look at this guy he does drugs that are illegal in his sport and we admire him. So why not legalise all drugs across the spectrum?

It would be better to glorify the pharmaceutical companies... better still invest in them , they are making records all of their own .

[master of the puppets]

All i can say is

756*

[Strike For The South]

Ted Williams is still the greatest hitter of all time. Besides If had to put a top 25 man roster of all time together, Bonds wouldnt even been on it. He was a great player but defintly not the greatest

[Don Corleone]

The man cheated to attain a goal. He has no honor, nor do any of his extollers.

[Devastatin Dave]

!

As to the perception of "taint:"

Mine's sigh...

[drone]

All i can say is

757*

Fixed it for you. Another one went swimming last night.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

All i can say is

756*

The irony of this when combined with your signature quote from TR is delicious.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Ted Williams is still the greatest hitter of all time.

I emphatically concur. Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Wagner, and yes, even Bonds, are all wonderful hitters. The "Splendid Splinter" bests them all.

Maybe we should thaw him out and get his take on the whole thing.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The man cheated to attain a goal.

Prima facie evidence suggests that this is true.

He has no honor,

As ethics are a central component of honor, I agree.

Bonds also has a miserable rep as a player vis-a-vis interaction with fans, selfishness, and team spirit.

nor do any of his extollers.

This might be a touch harsh. For those few saying "Who cares about the steroids thing, it's just the way things are" you may be correct.

I remember people doggin Aaron during the '70s as he approached the Babe. He's not worthy, he took too many at bats, he never won championships for his team, etc.

All I'm saying is, absent proof, Bond's achievement stands. All-in-all, I'm more worried about whether the Phils can pick up 4 more games against the Mets in these last weeks.

[KukriKhan]

I emphatically concur. Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Wagner, and yes, even Bonds, are all wonderful hitters. The "Splendid Splinter" bests them all.

Maybe we should thaw him out and get his take on the whole thing.

I'm all for that - tho' the cryoprotectant solution used by his current caretakers, might be deemed a 'performance enhancer', like steroids.

[Proletariat]

Screw Barry. The guy's a complete jerk, always has been, and he's a cheater. Barry, Sheffield, Giambi, McGwire, Sosa and any of these other bums who we know now are roid-monkeys can go play in a microwave as far as I'm concerned.

[master of the puppets]

but what if we enlarged the feilds and made a seperate league where steroids were MANDATORY, now THAT would be baseball (jk)

[Devastatin Dave]

and go back to tensely focusing on my Phillies and my hopes that they can pass the Mets and Braves and take their division.

The Braves will win the Division... The Philthies don't have the pitching. Ryan Howards and Jimmy Rollins are juicers!!!
TAINT!!!!

[Strike For The South]

I emphatically concur. Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Wagner, and yes, even Bonds, are all wonderful hitters. The "Splendid Splinter" bests them all.

Maybe we should thaw him out and get his take on the whole thing.

Ted and Patton are the two people I honestly look up to. He was a true American He

Played in MLB
Killed Commies
Cheated on his wife
Drank like a fish
didnt give a damn.