Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play
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As to outside protests in general against America, try to see it from this perspective: it is not America and Australia that went into Iraq. It is America that went to war, with Australia supporting it. That is the crucial bit, the assymetry. That is why Australians are protesting against Bush instead of Americans protesting against Howard. (Howard who? Of where? You mean he's the president of Australia then?)
Washington decides about Australian lives, not the other way round. Hence Australians protest at the American president if they disagree. It is not about controlling the US. It is protesting against decisions that will affect Australians. America has by default, by its sheer size and weight, a tremendous impact on Australia - which is, and this is often misunderstood as well, also not the same as trying 'to control' Australia.
That's a cop-out. They should hold their leaders responsible and not act as though they can't do anything but go along with the US.
If the US carries weight in Australia, then those against being in Iraq should bring more weight to bear on their government...if they can.
CR
Re: Re : Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play
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Originally Posted by CountArach
Because the opposition have failed to present an electable alternative, except in his first election race. BTW this is his 4th Term, with an election probably in November.
So regardless of the misery of war, the no WMD, the imperialistic leanings of the alliance with the U.S. and the distaste for Iraq on 10/9/2004 the liberal party holds its coalition with the national party.
The cat was out of the bag on Iraq before then, and the best you have is the opposition didnt have an electable alternative?
At least that gives you 3 more years (and counting) to blame someone else for your governments (and the voters) choice for going to Iraq. Why not aim at Bush, who knows kick that dead horse long enough and its leg might move.
Not buying it mate, Italy got out, so did Spain, you aussies get to own your piece all by yourselfs.
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A newspoll was taken a few weeks back that showed that the majority of Australians don't support the war. Many never did. I don't see why we should have to take responsibility for actions we didn't choose.
I guess thats the one part where americans and australlians differ? We arent happy either, but we take responsibility and vote in new people that we think will make a change no matter how bad they maybe.
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I am openly critical of our Government very often and I believe that Iraq has been a debacle that never should have happened. Why should I have feel that I have a responsibility towards keeping this war running.
I feel the same way, and I dont think you personally have to feel any responsibility but your country does. Your country chooses to be there.
Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play
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Originally Posted by Papewaio
Not at all, I've worked in mining with international companies (with Americans) and in IT for and with American companies.
When (as in not all the time) they say something dumb (and bosses and employees do both) we are not expected to keep quiet... we aren't expected to say that it is dumb in front of clients, but we are expected to make sure that a project doesn't go ahead based on opinion. We had an American manager state "I am the boss, you are the resource and you will do exactly as I tell you." this despite the course of action he wanted would not have meet the scope of the engagement nor would it have made the client happy. He also would refer to all his superiors as sir and expected his subordinates to do the same... something that we don't do out of school or the military here.
The guys from stateside were certainly far more specialized and rigid in their approach to both IT and hierarchy... with variation from state to state it seemed... get along very well with the Texans... I found it ironic that it was the Hawaiian that was most rigid (but in fairness he was a) ex-airforce and b) next home was in Florida for his retirement)... generally it was more relaxed with the West Coasters, as for the ex-military guys the green berets and marines seemed to be far more relaxed in civilian life then the air force guys... the most relaxed and laid back guy I have ever met (from any country) was an ex-US army vet from Vietnam who could drink anyone I know under the table (when Kafir posts, its this guys face that pops into my mind).
In general I found a lot of the American's just more rigid in employee-boss relations compared with the way Aussies, Kiwis and Brits approach the same dynamics.
Fair enough, my impression that you might be emblishing was wrong then.
Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play
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Originally Posted by Odin
and the best you have is the opposition didnt have an electable alternative?
Actually, Odin, yes the choice was between Coalition Government led by Howard that had experience even though they were pro-war or a Labour Government led by Mark Latham, who was inexperienced and disorganised. It was like a choice between the lesser of two evils.
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Italy got out, so did Spain, you aussies get to own your piece all by yourselfs.
Fair enough, but I think Howard ignores public opinion to a certain extent. We had large protests at the start, but nothing happened other than an increase in the numbers there. And here in Australia the general attitude is a laid-back "she'll be right" attitude about most things, so people usually don't get too worked up about this stuff in general.
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Originally Posted by Odin
we take responsibility and vote in new people that we think will make a change no matter how bad they maybe.
Well I'm sure we'll take responsibility in November.
Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play
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Originally Posted by Rythmic
Actually, Odin, yes the choice was between Coalition Government led by Howard that had experience even though they were pro-war or a Labour Government led by Mark Latham, who was inexperienced and disorganised. It was like a choice between the lesser of two evils.
Similar to Italy Spain and the U.S. Sadly were the only ones out of the three that screwed it up and didnt put Kerry in.
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Fair enough, but I think Howard ignores public opinion to a certain extent. We had large protests at the start, but nothing happened other than an increase in the numbers there. And here in Australia the general attitude is a laid-back "she'll be right" attitude about most things, so people usually don't get too worked up about this stuff in general.
Okay I'll lay off the throttle as long as when we are both drinking from the same troth your not bitching about my backwash, after all you lowered your head to drink too.
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Well I'm sure we'll take responsibility in November.
Hopefully, we are right behind you. Any Libertarians running down there?
Re: Australian Public School Shows Anti-Bush Play
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Originally Posted by Odin
Fair enough, my impression that you might be emblishing was wrong then.
Well its a numbers game, for every Aussie there are 15 Americans... so when traveling I've generally meet a similar ratio out there... or another way to think about it for every Aussie you meet in the workforce (as an ex-pat) I've meet 15 Americans, and when it comes to Mining in the Southern Hemisphere it is dominated employee wise by the Tri-Nations (Aus, South Africa, NZ), Britain and the US... so plenty of oppourtunties to meet (for instance my Dad works for Alcoa, and bro for KBR). While in IT the US dominates that sector so it's not hard to meet lots of Americans.
