Miserable Player
lol
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Miserable Player
lol
As we have already pointed out over at the .Com.
There are plans, nay more than plans, actual work, afoot to significantly improve the MP experience.
Here is the link: http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic...ck.html?page=1
This is a post I made over there about 6 months ago.
"Hi guys
Thanks for all the feedback. Keep it up, but keep it constructive. If you can, describe clearly what the issue is and why.
As others on this thread have so clearly and concisely said: the more specific, coherent and defined the feedback is, the more likely we can evaluate it properly.
We are aware there are technical issues with MP that need addressing and although I can't answer for CA-OZ (I'm sure the OZ guys are doing work for Kingdoms), we here at CA-UK are most definitely looking at trying to resolve as many issues as we can, as a matter of course, for the next big TW title. We are actually at this time working on the next (full) TW title and we're rebuilding the MP section from the foundations up. There were a number of unfortunate limitations that the Rome and Med2 engines placed on us that should, fingers crossed, be less of an issue this time around. How well much we manage to fit in is still subject to the slings and arrows of outrageous games development, but we really are going for it.
As I mentioned to Toxic elsewhere, we have a very, very big list of new features, bug fixes and game improvements. Anyway to quote myself and save my fingers for work:
"Unfortunately, despite us having an amazing bunch of people working long and hard on producing a world class game, there just aren't enough hours in the day or the infinite amount of time we would like to do all the work we would like. This has meant that inevitably some game features have, in the past, had to take a back seat to others. This isn't what we want or ever have ever intended, but game software development has a terrible capacity to throw curveballs out of left field. Often, they hit you on the back of the head when you're looking the other way. "
So guys please don't despair but be aware that rebuilding code isnt a "quick fix". It takes time. But we hope you will think it's worth it. "
So to all the MP fans, we are doing what we can to resolve as many issues as possible and at the same time add more features. There will be a Q & A as well as magazine (on and offline) articles that will talk about this. We have several months worth of info to release, please be patient.
Is there any word yet on copy protection that will be included in Empire?
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Very good question. :yes: Securom or any other malware and bye bye Empire. :rtwno:
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We are actually at this time working on the next (full) TW title
Does this refer to the Rome Total War II of rumors? :beam:
No. As I said that was a quote from post that I made before we announced that Empire was the next TW project.Quote:
We are actually at this time working on the next (full) TW title
Does this refer to the Rome Total War II of rumors?
Quote:
"This is a post I made over there about 6 months ago."
No info as yet on what kind of copy protection we are using on Empire.Quote:
Is there any word yet on copy protection that will be included in Empire?
I've heard these promises and a very similar speech before, hmmm just trying to think when and where..... oh yes, by CA right before MTW2 came out :drama3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Sidekick
Not saying you are a liar, just I have been promised these things before and all that has happened is MP has been made steadily worse since MTW times. But if you want me to wait and see, I will
Also you say the post was made 6 months ago...... What has changed in Mp since then? if you don't mind me asking :)
Nimble
@Intrepid Sidekick
No doubts, it all sounds very promising and Im looking forward to play the game BUT:
What are you actually planning to do? Like... what kind of multiplayer features? Are there going to be things like proper friend lists? Clan support? Ladders? Quickmatch features? Decent maps?
And how are you planning to fix the massive lag we had to bother with during the past few years?
Please name a few things. That would be appreciated more than just "empty promises", many people from the mp community just find it very hard to believe, cause they have been dissapointed a lot during the past few years :juggle2:
And why the sudden interest in mp at all? . There is a huge singleplayer community so why spend money on mp if nobody plays it?
Many questions no answers :yes:
Oh gawd!!! A dream comes true!!! A TW with good MP.
Bu it is ships!
lol
There will be both land battle and naval battle MP in Empire. I'm not quite sure where you've got the idea it would just be naval battles.
@Denali, more will be revealed in time, for now we've already revealed the following:
http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?p...l&nav=/en/6/8/Quote:
A brand new multiplayer component will include player rankings, leagues and ladders and completely new gameplay modes.
I appriciate your patience and your replys here. I just mention few issues.
Ok, fair enough. One question. Do you remember what MP elements Shogun had?Quote:
A brand new multiplayer component will include player rankings, leagues and ladders and completely new gameplay modes.
Why I'm asking this? Simple answer. I expect to see all those MP elements also in Empires and much more like capture the flag possibilities and so on.
Games with good MP support can be your guide. If that statement above is correct then I guess that in lobby there will also be no lag problems and no desync issues.Quote:
A brand new multiplayer component will include player rankings, leagues and ladders and completely new gameplay modes.
We have discussed all this for far too long and we also hoped for too long. Now simply is time for acts. We are all aware how high expectations are. Since RTW they were not realized. We will see how it will be this time.Every men patience has its limits.Thank you for interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lusted
Lol that's ironic. You ask me where I get that idea and then post a link for Denali and that link has 5 ETW screenshots all of them being ships!
http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?p...l&nav=/en/6/8/
I haven't seen a single screenshot for ETW which was land battle yet.
And look at this:
http://www.totalwarblog.com/
About 15 Q-A and all of them are about naval battles.
I heard there will be land battles but looking at the info floating around, I get the impression that those land battles will be just for some added flavor to the naval battles which are the main stream of the game.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Kyo
Yes you are. Land battles will be a key part in Empire just like in all Total War games. We have just shown naval battle pictures, and released mostly info on naval battles so far given the fact they are the major new feature in Empire and we want to show them off. You'll see pics of land battles, and more info about them soon enough. But they will not be a side show, they will be a major part of the game like in every Total War game so far.Quote:
I heard there will be land battles but looking at the info floating around, I get the impression that those land battles will be just for some added flavor to the naval battles which are the main stream of the game.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Let's be fair guys! :bobby2:
Naval battles were virtually non-existent in Total War hitherto. I had taken the chariot warfare as a prequel to possible future naval warfare during the days of RTW. Honestly, I don't know any good strategy games with decent naval battles as of yet. Age of Sail series were reportedly over-buggy, Port Royal screwed up a potentially good system in sequels (thus losing me for one) and about Imperial Glory I haven't heard much glorification. Therefore, CA have all the right to promote the naval battles of their next game.
Developing, improving and, yes, repairing and completing the existing mechanics isn't necessarily contradictory to implementing a new, yet for long missing feature. I'm with you in urging CA to complete and perfect the existing, inherited strategy, diplomacy, land battles and all incarnations of the AI; yet naval warfare finally being implemented is what predominantly makes me have expectations about this game, if not solely.
:bow:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lusted
Ok that is good to know. But then we are worried that those land battles will be dominated by guns. The conventional skill required, tactical depth game play won't be there. One will bring his guns and click on enemy. The battle will be resolved according to who has the better guns. Like the guns of late era of MTW2. They just dominate the game. You bring other type of units (cav, swords, spears, etc) just to hold enemy troops while guns are doing the job.
Well actually I can't blame CA. Afterall the gameplay must be enjoyable and easy; "hey look at that daddy...my elephants killed all his army". Add some good graphs and music on that and you are done. Total fun.
Otherwise it won't sell millions. :idea2:
Oh btw do not get me wrong. I am an employer who is 35 years old. I know about marketing and finance and I do not expect CA to sell less to fulfill veteran players needs for game and stay as a small company. That would be stupid. What makes me upset is that there are ways of satisfying both groups (veterans who like the tactical depth of the game and like to share that online with real people and the single players who do not care about that all) but CA ignores the first group. Let's say they had to do that with RTW because there was no other way but how about MTW2?
They just did not care solving lag issue and even though there was a team gathered together for making a reasonable balance (they did their job), CA did not implement that balance to the game. It is a mod now (Retrofit). CA says "get your mod and play as an isolated community please" where it would do no harm to them to implement that balance to the game (mtw2 could be patched to retrofit balance with the kingdoms expansion) and now we are expected to believe that ETW will be a perfect TW for MP. Lol?
RTW was a disaster for MP. That did not change with MTW2. Still lags like mad and the balance is laughable. Well Kingdoms balance is not bad but CA decided it should be 4 seperate games (that was the most brilliant decision in their history) so noone plays it.
Now it is ETW. The TW which will make MP community happy. Well I heard that before both for RTW and MTW2 and for their expansions as well.
"Trust us...This time we are gonna manage it with ETW..."
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/positive6.jpg
That is a common misconception of combat of the period. It most definitely was not just standing in lines and shooting at each other. Manouvering for the best ground, use of skirmishers, artillery to bombard positions, cavalry flanking, dealing with enemy cavalry, artillery and infantry, infantry manouvering, firing, and bayonet charges. This era is all about tactics. If you tried to just stand in line and just shoot, you would soon find yourself outmanouvered, flanked, battered and losing.Quote:
Ok that is good to know. But then we are worried that those land battles will be dominated by guns. The conventional skill required, tactical depth game play won't be there. One will bring his guns and click on enemy.
That all depends on the game design and how players get on with it.Quote:
Ok that is good to know. But then we are worried that those land battles will be dominated by guns. The conventional skill required, tactical depth game play won't be there.
If you read historical reports of medieval or ancient battles then you won't see much tactical depth beyond lining up, charge and the occasional flank charge. It is only because TW games use independent units and a quick resolve of who wins a combat between two units and that is stark contrast with the inflexible battlelines that could keep fighting on for hours but in sharp resemblance with the tactics of Napoleonic battles. Of course the latter are out of Empire's timeframe but seeing how far CA took her freedom to create the battlemechanics for the older TW titles they should do so now too.
We did our best to create good gameplay for NTW2 and if played against players with the right mindset it can be great fun to position your units at the right positions, weaken the enemy at a spot that you are determined to break through after a few close range volleys. Timing becomes so much more important because you cannot afford your men to stay idle in front of the enemy. On the other hand with the wrong players you might just as well get a battle where there are no charges and units just continue to fire at each other. But you should realize that the fault then lies with the game design and players and not the period.
Hell Yeaaaa!! Artillery!! That is the key dude. Key to the perfect tactical depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lusted
I cannot believe you come here and post "etw will have a perfect tactical depth with artillery".
This is like a bad joke!
Notice how I also mention cavalry, infantry, the use of terrain, forgot to mention the use of buildings, and other things, not just artillery. Artillery was a key part of armies in this time period though, but as part of a combined arms approach. Could you please not misquote me as nowhere did I say:Quote:
Hell Yeaaaa!! Artillery!! That is the key dude. Key to the perfect tactical depth.
I cannot believe you come here and post "etw will have a perfect tactical depth with artillery".
This is like a bad joke!
This is what I said:Quote:
"etw will have a perfect tactical depth with artillery"
Quote:
That is a common misconception of combat of the period. It most definitely was not just standing in lines and shooting at each other. Manouvering for the best ground, use of skirmishers, artillery to bombard positions, cavalry flanking, dealing with enemy cavalry, artillery and infantry, infantry manouvering, firing, and bayonet charges. This era is all about tactics. If you tried to just stand in line and just shoot, you would soon find yourself outmanouvered, flanked, battered and losing.
Oh whatever. We all can predict what ETW will be like. Final nail in the coffin for the MP community and I really have no idea why CA hates us that much.
Anyway I had really good time online during mtw and vi and it seems "every good thing has an end" rule applies to TW too. Nothing will change that.
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Pointless and arrogant discrimination. I'm a single player who has never played any game online (uhm... I believe I did once on MSN) but I'm a veteran in all senses of the word and vouch for tactical and strategical depth. ~:handball:Quote:
(veterans who like the tactical depth of the game and like to share that online with real people and the single players who do not care about that all)
Single players have much more to complain about than online battle players; the lack of strategic depth or realism, the absence of I in AI, diplomacy unfeature and a heap of bugs and nuisances on tactical level, mostly even stronger felt absence of the I of the AI.
As long as players keep forming cults and glorifying their cult at the expense of derogating other players, it will be impossible to form a solid fanbase capable of affecting the developers. :no:
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Totalwar.ORG: Troll Invasion. How come this one has been lurking for three years? :gah:
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Don't you agree SP Rocks mate? :laugh4:
I guess decent manners are not everybody's cup of tea, eh?
Oh, well...
I'd like to point out that comments and updates from CA staff are always welcome here and are appreciated by the majority of the community ... and hopefully the willingness to provide these updates is not stifled by members who apparently do not respect opinions of other community members either
Obviously not everybody is happy with everything that CA is doing and constructive and/or civilised criticism should also always be welcome and respected.
Pure trolling is neither appropriate nor helpful.
:bow:
Did anyone here played NTW2? If so you know that tactical depth is perfectly possible with the armies of time period. In fact I dare to say it has the best MP since Shogun *bows towards Duke John*, and I always thought that it is a shame that NTW2 is just a mod. It has everything you need for a good game light, heavy cavs, light, medium, heavy infantry, strong but not overpowering arty. It is brilliant.
TBH honest I did not think that CA would dare to make a napoleonic game after NTW2 as it is hard to come out on the top in comparison with NTW2. If CA can (re)produce the balance of NTW2 then it will be a brilliant game. If they can get just close to it it still will be good. Of course there is no guarantee for this and the last CA releases had the etendency to have at least one game breaking bug (blobbing, pushthrough) which were ironed out only for the expansion packs (i.e. too late). If CA can get the first release without such a bug then it has the potential to be a very good MP (and ofc solves the lag, has better maps, etc as promised). If not it is the end for MP ... this is the last, last chance ....
ps. forgot to ask from the CA devs: have you guys played NTW2? If not, please do so ASAP!!! :yes:
Hey, CTF in an RTS (as opposed to an FPS) - that's a good idea! I very rarely play Total War MP, but if Empires has CTF, then you can count me in!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aonar
Maybe we could also have MP historical battles, as well as "hold building/area x for 10 minutes" (or King of the Hill, if you like), and "kill the enemy general" modes?
Seconded. And can we ban this guy? We've got a thread with a CA member replying frequently ATM and he might ruin it for all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
Whats NTW2? And by the way, I've never played multiplayer either, and I've been playing the TW series since MTW, never got bored.
But each man to his own views, yet I do not think it is correct to despair.......why maybe this time ETW might actually meet you requirement and more...........wait for the game mates.....
After all it is the TW isn't it? One of a kind.....! :beam:
Well, the wolves are know for their *khm* "unique style" but it would be a bit harsh to ban Kyolic. He has a point here and there. ~;)
Also, NTW2 is a mod for RTW, called surprisingly: Napoleonic Total War!!! :inquisitive: :laugh4: Made by the Lordz, led by Duke John (correct me if I am wrong).
It is basically made for MP and you can play the major powers of the era, French, Russians, Brits, Austrians. It has a very good, well balanced play.
I would suggest everyone to try it before continuing the debate about balance. NTW2 is the proof that it can be done.
Big question ofc whether CA can do it too? ~;)
I think you are so locked up in your (apparently lost) MP world, you are forgetting your history:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf_Kyolic
"Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl." (Frederick the Great)
By the time of Napoleon, artillery was the main killer in battle. It is no coincidence that Napoleon was an artillery officer - his skilful use of that arm at Toulon and elsewhere helped propel him to power. It was also the most demanding in terms of officer training. That's one reason a smart but disadvantaged student like Napoleon could shine in that branch.
Historically, warfare in the period had lots of tactical depth. Not just artillery, but also infantry combat (linear, shock, skirmish) and cavalry vs infantry interactions (centring around the square). Those complex historical tactical elements will make modelling it in a game more challenging - both in terms of balance and more especially in terms of the AI. But the latter is one thing MPers don't need to worry about.