Safety vs Freedom: Should Adults be Forced to Wear Seatbelts?

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

No!

It was for money and control.

It was not an outcry from the people no the insurance industry.

The seatbelt laws are state laws which provide and excuse to stop individual automobiles after the Supreme Court said that random stops were an infringement on individual liberty. It was a convenient excuse and pushed by law enforcement agencies. Go and check.

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Did you know, that in the 70's, the CIA installed radio-transmitters in peoples mouths when they went to the doctor, so they could hear everything people said? Go and check!

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

When you apply for a driver's licence are you not undertaking to obey the rules of the road.

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Don't know what rituals you guys go through, but I did nothing like that when I got my license. The application form was basically name, address and ticking the boxes that said "I don't have any court orders prohibiting getting a license" and "Yes, I'm applying for a license".

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Don't know what rituals you guys go through, but I did nothing like that when I got my license. The application form was basically name, address and ticking the boxes that said "I don't have any court orders prohibiting getting a license" and "Yes, I'm applying for a license".

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They don't give you a license just by filling a form Horetore thats just to apply for your driving test to obtain your license.

In order to pass the test you have to learn the rules of the road and successfully show you have learned them and if you break them they can take it from you.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Did you know, that in the 70's, the CIA installed radio-transmitters in peoples mouths when they went to the doctor, so they could hear everything people said? Go and check!

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Some states (Virginia being one of them) have not wearing seat belts as a secondary offence, which means they can't pull you over if they see you without a seat belt on, but they can fine you extra if they notice it during a stop for something else. Sane policy really. Other states allow the police to pull you over straight up for no seat belt use. It's a great way to give out DWBs.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

No!

It was for money and control.

It was not an outcry from the people no the insurance industry.

The seatbelt laws are state laws which provide and excuse to stop individual automobiles after the Supreme Court said that random stops were an infringement on individual liberty. It was a convenient excuse and pushed by law enforcement agencies. Go and check.

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So what you just said was that special interest groups (the police unions and organizations) used government to increase their own power. Hmmmmm, sounds exactly like what I just said.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I would assume that there are transportation purposes better suited for a more mobile, two wheeled single person vehicle just as there are transportation purposes better suited for an 18 wheeler. I haven't ridden a motorcycle or am at all knowledgeable so I can't list any such reasons off the top of my head. Ask the Harley-Davidson forums?

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If you are on your own and don't have anything large to carry, then the reduced congestion and fuel usage makes it far more practical to ride a bike.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

They don't give you a license just by filling a form Horetore thats just to apply for your driving test to obtain your license.

In order to pass the test you have to learn the rules of the road and successfully show you have learned them and if you break them they can take it from you.

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No, they didn't give me a license because I filled out that form, but it was the only form I filled out during my drivers education.

But no, they don't get to take it away "because I have agreed not to break the law". They get to take it away because that's what the law says. "Living in this country" is the way I "let the government know I agree" with that.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

So what you just said was that special interest groups (the police unions and organizations) used government to increase their own power. Hmmmmm, sounds exactly like what I just said.

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You said the people wanted it.

Law enforcement and government agencies are not the people.

But have it your way. You are saying that as long as the laws are passed and signed it is okay to bribe, bully, or coerce the legislators , it is the appearance of a free and democratic process that is important and whether or not a law infringes on individual rights and liberties it is irrelevant.

Most anything can be accomplished to limit your rights in the name of public safety or for the children and so on.

All it takes is a bit of compliancy and the belief that government has your own good in mind.

What they have in mind is their own good, their own power, and holding on to it.

I'm with BG, Hosakwawa and others that link responsibility and freedom (aka authority for self-determination). Authority and responsibility are two sides of the same coin and cannot be logically separated in any decision making process.

I used to agree with the "no seat-belt laws crowd". It is a little galling. If the government passed a law that required us to wash our hands after using the toilet, that would really irritate people too, but it just makes sense.

In an effort to get away from whether unsecured motorists (or passengers) potentially pose a danger to others, we could purify the premise of the argument and shift it to a question of whether the government has the right, and even the obligation, to prevent suicide?

I think the arguments on the libertarian side are fundamentally flawed in one way. In framing these arguments, personal liberty & freedom is assumed to be an absolute right, or at the very least, a right of higher standing than others. But as members of a collective society, we have a responsiblity to each other as well. My freedom to harm myself ends where that harm may impact you as well.

So yes, the government has a right, and an obligation, to prevent 10's of thousands of needless deaths on the highway each year. And yes, the government has a right, and an obligation to find ways to bring down the problems with morbid obesity that the country faces. If you really feel that you have a desire to eat 4K calories a day of fat, salt, sugar and starch to get yourself to a BMI of 30+, then remove yourself from the society that will be charged with the responsiblity of taking care of you and your failed organs when diabtetes leads you to dialysis, or heart disease leads you to hover-arounds and oxygen tanks.

Maybe fatherhood has changed me more than I thought. Or maybe I need to move back to North Carolina. My God, I'm becoming a.... centrist.... :help:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Maybe fatherhood has changed me more than I thought. Or maybe I need to move back to North Carolina. My God, I'm becoming a.... centrist.... :help:

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Soon you are going to be a socialist too!

It's not a matter of freedom and liberity when you are using government roads and government money/ services (when you splat)

The government has a right to be in this relam.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Soon you are going to be a socialist too!

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In soviet Russia, socialism makes YOU!

Seatbelts are mandatory here; it doesn't feel like I'm living in a dictatorship. Then again, maybe I'm used to being oppressed by the evil government that forces me to wear a seatbelt so that I don't even realise how much freedom this law takes away from me. I probably don't even know how much joy and real freedom driving my car on the highway without wearing a seatbelt gives me. I've never felt that satisfaction and I'll never experience the freedom of flying through the front window of my car. Evil Belgian dictators :mean:

Meh, if seatbelts are not mandatory for the sake of freedom then the free insurance companies should not cover the damages suffered by the occasional moron who refuses to put on his seatbelt. I hope he has fun paying for the cost of his handicap with his own means. The occasional moron will love to see how his loved ones will have to work their butts off to pay for his lack of responsiblity, all for the sake of freedom (tm). At least he experienced flying through the front window of his car. What a lucky moron he is.

Imo, a government has a responsiblity towards its' citizens. If there are enough people stupid enough not to wear their seatbelts, then make it mandatory, to protect them against their own stupidity. It's not that intrusive really. It's an action that takes less than a second. I also fail to see how it limits your freedom. You can still drive your care, right? I don't notice any difference between driving with or without seatbelt, so why should you make a fuss about something as trivial as that. Having to put on your seatbelt doesn't have any effect whatsoever on your freedom (tm).

There are better cases to fight for your precious freedom.

And before you go all "but where do you draw the line" on me, the answer is simple: not here.

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Originally Posted by Andres

Imo, a government has a responsiblity towards its' citizens. If there are enough people stupid enough not to wear their seatbelts, then make it mandatory, to protect them against their own stupidity.

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Now you're just trying to thwart natural selection. :no:

Ajax

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

Now you're just trying to thwart natural selection. :no:

Ajax

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I would enjoy it if we humans at least tried to act as if we are above animals, letting the sick, stupid and elderly die off quickly to promote a better "gene pool".

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

Now you're just trying to thwart natural selection. :no:

Ajax

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Humans are not the only animal that intervenes between natural selection many species care for sick or elderly members.

Honestly, if you don't want to wear your seat belt, then don't.

Then, when you get pulled over by the police, pay your fine of $25 or whatever it is these days and where ever you are.

Just consider it the fee you pay towards the future clean up bill when they have spray down the road and pick up your little scull fragments after you fly out your windshield and skip along the pavement.

Continuing within the context of "Unlocking Safety in 8 Hours: The Ultimate Confined Space Training Guide," this section delves into the procedural aspects of confined space entry. It lays out a step-by-step guide for safely entering such spaces, stressing the adherence to protocols and utilization of proper personal protective equipment (PPE). The focus is on equipping readers with a comprehensive understanding of the necessary precautions.