The more I read this, the less I like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
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The more I read this, the less I like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Anything specifically about it?
I guess I'm just not seeing the bait in those posts, making your characterisation seem rather forced and, thus, defensive.
Vote:Abstain
Why? Now I just have to read through all of these posts. Where are all the nonsensical joke posts? :no: I'll be back when I read through all of this.
Every post by or addressing Double A, who, incidentally, is not a player but a substitute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Yeah, that's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
How many mafia/wolves are we assuming here? 1/2? It's been a while since I've played a game like this. Depending on the answer I might vote Visor.
12 people in the game if I recall correctly so 2 mafia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
For the sake of being fully transparent GH did PM after out initial convo saying he had no intention of keeping his vote on me, so I tend to believe him there hence the lean.
And, no I have no intention of rescinding my claim.
I am exactly what I say I am.
Visor keeps referring to a pair of mafia, but it's not all that unheard of to just have one mafioso in a game this small. Three would almost certainly be excessive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
Three is too much without power roles.
Two is a perfect amount. I point you to El Bartos last games where there were two mafia with similar player numbers.
Hmm if that's the case then unvote:, Vote:Visorslash I don't see how you aren't a liability for the town. Especially considering how you revealed your role.
I mean, I guess I should have expected this. The Org is the least friendly board for claims that aren't town.
I am never a wolf and I literally cannot be a PFK with this many players.
In what way does voting me accomplish anything but a wasted day? You are no closer to any alignments of importance, you will basically begin d2 as d1 because you have no town/mafia lynch d1 to discuss.
Well, lynching you is the only way we can contain you if you are a threat to the town, i. e. if you're lying. Sure, you could be scanned by a cop or roleblocked or tracked or whatever, but so what? If you are who you say you are, you still aren't inherently pro-town, and, like I said before, playing as a helpful townie is a guaranteed path to a nightkill. You don't seem in a position to help the town much.
You've sparked quite the discussion, so this day certainly wasn't wasted. In fact, this is probably one of the most productive first days I've seen. I'll humor you, though. Who's the better option? How are you reading everyone who's going after you?
Can I actually post somewhat frequently if I don't contribute anything to the game like normal?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Barto
I'll explain my vote better now that I have the time to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
I assume you are the role you say you are. I believe everything you posted in your initial reveal. The problem to me is revealing, almost instantaneously, your role with no prompt or reason. Also, the fact that you have no alignment to either side. You've left yourself open to being easily manipulated by the baddies. I think your reveal was an advertisement to the mafia to contact you, because that gives you the best chance to fulfill your win condition. You have a fighting chance to reason with townies not to lynch you. The same can't be said for being killed in the night randomly. It's a risky play, but it would be well worth if it worked.
That's my reasoning and whether or not it's correct I don't honestly know. Either way my vote stands as is.
Player list, just in case Double A has confused you:
1. GeneralHankerchief
2. Visorslash
3. BSmith
4. Ishmael
5. seireikhaan
6. vote:Winston Hughes
7. Kagemusha
8. Csargo
9. vote:johnhughthom
10. Montmorency
11. landlubber
No, and if you keep up with your silly antics I'll remove you from the substitutes list. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Double A
Psh, fine. I guess I'm blowing this popsicle stand. Hell, I don't even like popsicles. They're usually mediocre and wood adds absolutely nothing but a gross feeling.
Well no, thats not true and pretty dishonest. Lets say there are no other power roles in this game and my role was put in this game because there was an even number of players (my hypothesis). None of the reasons for voting so far stand on any reasoning that could be taken as scumhunting or what have you. I've claimed a role which whilst maybe not verifiable is a role that is not only NEVER claimed by mafia (mafia would claim something that would let them live and also never claim with their first post of the day). You can cling to the worst case scenario where I am lying about claiming a survivor role on one the most hostile to third party claims sites that play mafia an HOUR after the day began.Quote:
Originally Posted by landlubber
Now lets look at that in detail because I think that is pretty important. If you believe I am a survivor this is a GOOD thing if you are town. Because you know that the playerbase is narrowed and that the wolves can be found easier. (example, at f5 you would have a 2/3 chance of randomly voting a wolf rather than a 1/2). So my continued survival is useful for that point.
The other argument is that I claimed an hour into the game. Now, I don't live in the timezone that most do besides Ishmael here so unless you are suggesting I am mafia with the people who posted before I did which is you or Winston. Now, both you and winston are against me so that doesn't seem likely.
To quash this silly belief especially from winston: Unless you think I claim as a neutral survivor without talking to my teammate/s an hour into the game, the evidence is OVERWHELMINGLY likely that I am telling the truth about being a survivor.
I am in an excellent position to help town. My unique position means my opinion can be trusted moreso than most with respect to reads. I have every reason to be open and transparent and solving and I believe I have done.
So you believe I am NOT a mafia. Survivor typically win with anyone as long as they are alive at the end - I included that for completeness sake. And no, I don't think I can be easily manipulated by the baddies, not sure what that argument is about. And why on earth would the mafia contact me? If they think I'm telling the truth the best thing to do is leave me alone and for the game sake more than anything. Mafia will never contact me here saying hey I'm mafia. That is a terrible play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
The best chance for me to win was to reveal immediately because with this lineup I get nightkilled early. It is as simple as that.
The rationale behind both your votes doesn't make too much sense.
Been a while since I wrote that much in a post.
Let's go through the scenarios:
One: I am mafia. Rare but for completeness sake. I decided to claim an hour into the game presumably without talking to my partner unless they are Winston/Landlubber. I also decided to claim a role that will often get lynched due to the Org hating all third parties. I also gain my partner ~zero equity when I flip mafia because the suspicion on me comes from a position of perfect information - so winston or landlubber should be defending me not suspecting me because otherwise the flip reeks of PIS. I don't help my partner get through the game at all.
Two: I am town. Less rare but still. I decided to claim a role that typically gets lynched very early on in the game, presumably to get some discussion going day one. This is a reasonable move but would have been rescinded by now if I was town.
Third: I am exactly who I say I am. I claimed an hour into the game as soon as I read my role PM. I have been transparent and open to discussion from all players and have acknowledged all concerns.
We can see that option three is obviously the most likely.
Now we can look at what this means.
For the town - a narrowing of suspects, plus some information with how people have reacted to my claim.
For mafia - narrowing down of power roles if any. Has one less mislynch available technically.
So you can see my survival is actually beneficial to the town. And I already intend on attempting to solve this game - like I said earlier, that is the fun part for me.
Even if all that EVIDENCE doesn't convince you, I am asking you to ignore my claim then and focus on my tone/words/etc.
Do I sound like I am coming from a position of perfect information? Do I sound guilty?
I am doing my utmost firstly to get these terrible votes off me - next will come the examination of the players as they stand so far. But that will happen tonight, I'm taking a break for now.
In that case:Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
unvote; vote: GH
His weak accusation wasn't setting a trap for scum; it was opening an approach to get the neutral guy onside.
I mean, I can't exactly announce that I'm setting a trap as I'm doing it, as that would defeat the entire purpose of said trap. Otherwise I'd've made it more clear.
Actually, I have a better idea.
Unvote: BSmith
Vote: Kage
Everyone else has chimed in so far. This isn't going to be a Mafia X redux, at least not when I have any say in things.
Very strange GH are you bit rusty? ;) I have indeed chimed in and voted Monty because of his subtle ways, which he did not want to comment in any way. I have no such problems old friend. I am watching at this point and you can be sure that i will contribute more as i have something to base a case.
That's what I said. One person contacts you and says vote this way or you'll die tonight. It's as simple as that really. You don't do it and you get killed, or you reveal who sent it and you get killed. You'd obviously choose survival over revealing considering your role. Why wouldn't they? The risk is negligible considering your role. It'd just give them an extra vote in the game. How is it a terrible play?Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Why would you think that?
Wait, seriously? I guess I must be, I completely missed this. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Unvote: Kage
Vote: BSmith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
If I was a 3rd party role such as Visor is claiming, and scum contacted me in the manner you described, I would tell the town. I'm not in a team, stuff the win, threaten me, I'll take you with me. I think a lot of other players would do the same. Unless you're Askthepizzaguy, most players sympathise more with the town than scum in such a position.
Probably.
First of all, there isn't an even number of players in the game, there are eleven. Second, you keep saying that the town can trust you and that you'll be helpful, but, as I've said before, the mafia would not want such a person alive. And the "mafia would never do this" defense really isn't working for me, because I can't imagine anyone playing like this under any circumstances. Your insistence on clearing yourself to the town while avoiding nightkills by the mafia just isn't true. Either you lay low and the mafia see no reason to spend a night killing you, or you play well enough as a pseudo-townie that you put a target on your back for the mafia.
My vote stands, as Visor hasn't convinced me and, while some others seem a little strange to me (GH and Monty stand out), no one even begins to reach Visor's level.
Maybe you are right and I'm not saying Visor wouldn't do the same. His role makes him dangerous if such a situation arises later on down the line. It could shift the balance of a potential game winning/losing vote as numbers dwindle. I don't really want to take that chance, so I'd rather deal with it now and avoid the possibility later on. It makes Visor potentially dangerous, and that's a good enough reason for me to lynch him now.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
No one else seems to be responding to my posts, but I won't change my vote. :soapbox::end:
Indeed, what self respecting scumbag would keep such a thread dominating distraction going?Quote:
Originally Posted by landlubber
unvote; vote: Visor
Has to be.
I really think that lynching Visor is a bad idea.
Consider the following assumptions/statements/whatevers:
1) Visor is, I believe, one of the most active remaining mafia players here across multiple fora, and is thus very much in tune with the metagame.
2) He has to be aware that the .Org is notorious for being twitchy with claimed third-party roles, thus, it wouldn't benefit him too much to claim something like that without reason.
3) Considering Point 1 above, he could be considered a likely kill target and this may - intentionally or not - be a way to remove that by deliberately attracting more suspicion towards himself (this is what I've been doing after all)
4) If he has the option to align with scum, as some people have said, and this is his way of putting himself out there, wouldn't that be unbalanced for a game of this size?
Feel free to pick apart.
It's bit startling that I'm going to lose this game immediately, I think I've done pretty much everything I can to convince you of my alignment. Gone above and beyond the call of duty here.
" Either you lay low and the mafia see no reason to spend a night killing you"
I refuse to lay low.
I would be looking at those who only considered me, not peoples reactions to me tomorrow for a lynch. Those people could easily be trying to lessen their interactions.
I mean I'm the easiest mislynch of all time here and yet nobody seems to be considering what I am saying.
I would any of those who actually recognise voting me is not voting a mafia to vote elsewhere. Voting me gets you no closer to finding the mafia, and in fact is in direct opposite to your win condition.
You are throwing away a lynch because of the some of the stupidest reasoning. I have posted plenty of evidence why I am who I am, none of it has been refuted.
I just get ignored and voted because lol fuck third parties amirite
The Org meta in this way is so unhealthy. You guys need to actually think about the scenario. Where are the mafia in this game? No townie has a clue because the discussion is about me when it should not be. I made my claim which is absolutely moronic for a mafioso as you can see and it narrows the pool down for scum.
DO SOME WORK instead of taking the easy option. When/if you lose this game come back and quote this post, because here is where you lost a lynch you could've used.
Well I'm not putting myself out there for scum - I always play to the win condition specified in my role PM. Unlike some people *cough SW town cough*.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Mostly everything said here is correct. Most of plays only make sense from the survivor pov. And I assume most of finally bloody beleive it by now which means you should be focusing on finding the mafia rather than this discussion which went on for far too long because I had to defend myself against stellar accusations like Montys.
Why would they kill me? Its moronic from the mafia perspective to kill someone they can win with and I'm never going to be blackmailed or threatened in doing anything I don't want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
I'd reveal them instantly.
The mafia don't want me alive so you're voting meQuote:
Originally Posted by landlubber
good look there
if play well enough there might be a target on my back, I can accept that
but thats the way the cookie crumbles
Days over in what 3 hours or so?
I doubt I can convince enough of you remaining and I don't even know what the tally is
Vote: landlubber
I'd also like to point out that NONE of my voters even addressed the whole fuckign walls of text I put up. Its brilliant to be ignored when your game is on the line, but there ain't much I can do about plays like that
If I don't make it back to change my vote, I'd like you all to know once more how terrible your votes are and how poor your reasoning is, etc.
FWIW Visor's acting a lot like The Frenchman right now, a role in Pirate Ship II where he felt unjustly persecuted after aligning with town and agreeing to work with that game's Captain. I'd give him a pass.
It's a threat nothing more. You just said you always play to your win condition why wouldn't they use that against you. You reveal whoever contacted you and you die. It's pretty simple to me, even if it's stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visorslash
Why would they threaten me in the first case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
They threaten me, I reveal them, its a 1-1 trade with someone who isn't town and doesn't conflict with their wc
makes zero sense
@GH
They killed Arjos!
My posting style has gotten more aggressive thanks to being around 2+2/MR a bit more.
It's mostly the frustration shining through at this point.
Okay, I can't do the "talking to myself" schtick anymore. W/e
So here's the thing, Visor. You admitted the mafia have no interest in killing your role. That is correct. Therefore the likely result of your roleclaim is you make to a theoretical end game by virtue of announcing your role. Which means, if you *are* a ballsy mafioso, if your claim stuck, you'd basically not have to defend yourself past day 1. I don't think it's *likely* that you're a mafia making this claim, hence why I'll keep my vote on Bsmith. But, I have seen less likely things happen. Do I think this is the best lynch? No, not on probability. But I don't begrudge it because at the end of the day, it spares us from a potential last day phase where we toss a coin on whether you fake claimed, so I don't think this is even the worst result either.
Also, don't complain about the round being all about you when *you* made the round all about you by claiming a role on day 1.
DAY ONE
Visorslash was lynched. He was a Survivor!
Csargo: landlubber
Visorslash: Montmorency; landlubber; Csargo; Winston Hughes
Winston Hughes: Ishmael;
BSmith: seireikhaan; GeneralHankerchief
Montmorency: Kagemusha
seireikhaan: BSmith
landlubber: Visorslash
Abstain: none
Not voting: none
Player list
1. GeneralHankerchief
2.Visorslash, Survivor, Lynched Day One
3. BSmith
4. Ishmael
5. seireikhaan
6. johnhughthom
7. Kagemusha
8. Csargo
9. Winston Hughes
10. Montmorency
11. landlubber
It is now NIGHT ONE.
Time remaining:
I guess some things never change. :laugh4:
NIGHT ONE
Kagemusha was killed. He was a townie!
Player list
1. GeneralHankerchief
2.Visorslash, Survivor, Lynched on Day One
3. BSmith
4. Ishmael
5. seireikhaan
6. johnhughthom
7.Kagemusha, Townie, Killed by Mafia on Night One
8. Csargo
9. Winston Hughes
10. Montmorency
11. landlubber
It is now DAY TWO.
Time remaining:
Vote: GH
Oh boy.
https://i182.photobucket.com/albums/...psloyvtexa.png
I'm inclined to put my vote back on Bsmith. Still not a fan of his posturing, nor of the OMGUS vote upon receiving pressure.
Vote: Bsmith
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
No reason.
Unvote; Vote: khaan
I'm confused by Monty so far, I'm not quite sure what he's thinking. It seems like he's somewhat overeager to vote for people who have already been accused by someone else. Could be an attempt to lay low and avoid saying something potentially incriminating.
I'm also puzzled by Winston's switching from Visor to GH and then back to Visor. With or without Winston's vote, Visor would have been lynched, and it meant abandoning his vote on GH, which had some merit. Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Hmm.... let's test this. FOR SCIENCE!Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Quote:
Vote: khaan
Why?
For one, khaan is definitely scum. This will become clearer over the course of the day.
Well landlubber, I was the first to seriously vote Visor, and khaan is in the top 5 for least-pressured players so far - as are you and I.
It looks like Montmorency is doing his usual shtick, so I can't really deduce much from him yet. landlubber has also continued in much the same vein as yesterday, and given that I thought he was leaning town then I see no reason to change my mind yet. I somewhat agree with Montmorency that 'khaan is worth keeping an eye on, since he (and GH, actually) is coming off as confident and relaxed in his posting, and that makes me nervous.
And of course, I then find myself agreeing with GH and 'khaan in finding BSmith to be suspicious for the combination of hedging his bets, seemingly trying to actively give off a vibe of 'townie analysis,' and the highly defensive OMGUS vote in response to pressure.
To give an example, this post in particular came off rather strongly as positioning himself against the Visorslash wagon whilst still giving himself room to lynch Visorslash later on should he survive D1. Also:Quote:
Originally Posted by BSmith
Again, this comes off as somebody very deliberately trying to keep their options open.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSmith
So, for want of anything better:
vote: BSmith
1. I was keeping my options open because I didn't like any of the ones in front of me.
2. OMGUS is not the scumtell it used to be. I would certainly avoid it if I were actual scum simply because of the knee-jerk reaction it tends to provoke.
3. I really do like my vote: khaan and think I will do it again.
4. I am posting from my phone.
:p
I'll have to be somewhere on Caturday IRL so I've moved the deadline forward by a couple hours.
Time remaining:
Interesting move from mafia. Can i keep posting while dead, as i did not see anything about it in the rules?
No you need to keep me comfy.
Let us huddle for warmth.
Vote:GH
Because reasons.
I didn't see any chance of GH getting lynched and, by that point in the day, figured it was best just to make sure the Visor lynch was locked down. Even though it was clear by then that he really was telling the truth, lynching Visor was a far better outcome than lynching a townie, which was the most likely alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by landlubber
For the time being, I'm going to go with vote: GH once again. As I said yesterday, his private dealings with Visor are deeply suspicious to me, and I still fail to see how his original accusation could possibly have trapped a scumbag, making the characterisation he gave of it seem quite implausible.
That said, I'm interested to hear Csargo's reasons for the same vote, which must presumably be different to mine (or else he would have said so, right?).
I don't think there is much point looking to deeply at yesterday's voting, it was clear early on, pretty much from his roleclaim tbh, that Visor was going to be lynched. Scum had plenty of time to decide whether popping an easy vote on him to hide with the crowd, or putting a vote somewhere meaningless was the least conspicuous route.
"Private dealings"
Here's the extent of my communication with Visorslash from the first day phase:
Honestly I thought we had put the issue of Visor's identity to bed when it was revealed yesterday, but apparently not.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
What was the point? I don't understand at all.
I wanted a D1 that was something besides 11 random votes for a change. Visor got the ball rolling, I wanted to keep it going.
I mean why did you contact him? I can understand why you put the vote on him initially. I don't understand the PM.
But, GH, why tell him you weren't planning keeping your vote on him?
I'm struggling to think of a townie reason for doing so. By contrast, it's obvious why scum might want to cozy up to him.
Also, this 'fishing for responses' thing... People were always going to react to Visor's claim. It was the only thing anyone had to talk about. It's notable that the rest of us who pushed on Visor all provoked a response (indeed, I think every one of us caught a vote as a direct consequence), but your accusation got nothing at all until you retracted it. Looking back, it's not hard to see why. Far from demanding a reaction, your accusation was so hedged it would be hard to pick any solid point to address from it. At the time, it looked townie enough. But that's the idea, isn't it? Only when you tell me it's supposed to be provocative does it stop making sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csargo
:bow:
It made sense at the time?
Look, I don't have a better defense than the above. I haven't played a single game of mafia in nearly three years, I'm not exactly running at peak efficiency here. If you hold me to the same standard as you did in the glory days you're going to be sorely disappointed.
Well, no. I'd rather have a possible replacement, btw, but everyone so far seems to be interested in actually playing. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
No posting after death? Crap, now I need to work harder to save myself.
GH's constant undermining of his skill is hard for me to get my head around. Most of us, like GH, played many games several years ago. Myself, I hadn't played a mafia game since 2011 until this one. You're still a good player, and yet you never admitted to messaging Visor until he revealed it. That's worrying to me.
This, though... I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but it sounds like, "OMGUS isn't a scumtell, but it would make people think I'm scum." That's pseudo-logic. I'm not buying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSmith
Vote:BSmith
So, is there anything of substance here? If I was going to switch from GH to someone else, it'd be a toss up between you and the guy you're accusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
@BSmith
You gave me townie vibes on D1, and I buy your line on the OMGUS thing. But today's contribution has been lacking. The way things are going, you're getting lynched sooner or later, and if you don't start putting yourself about a bit more, then we're not going to learn much from your death.
That could be said for a lot of people here. I don't know when the last time I played a game was.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
I'm definitely suspicious of you, but that's mainly based on the PM. Your behavior in the thread is much less so imo. There have been one or two posts that sort of pinged my radar, but for the most part seems fine. That being said I don't find BSmith to be that suspicious either. I find both khaan and Montmorency suspicious, so I'll just unvote:GH, Vote:Montmorency
Vote: Monty
Hasn't really made a lot of sense so far, and I'm still waiting for something to become clear.
Or even murky.
DAY TWO
BSmith was lynched. Believe it or not, the cellphone-poster was a Townie!
BSmith: seireikhaan; Ishmael; landlubber
seireikhaan: Montmorency; BSmith
GeneralHankerchief: WinstonHughes
Montmorency: Csargo; johnhughthom
Not voting: GeneralHankerchief (1×)
Player list
1. GeneralHankerchief
2.Visorslash, Survivor, Lynched on Day One
3.BSmith, Townie, Lynched on Day Two
4. Ishmael
5. seireikhaan
6. johnhughthom
7.Kagemusha, Townie, Killed by Mafia on Night One
8. Csargo
9. Winston Hughes
10. Montmorency
11. landlubber
It is now NIGHT TWO.
Time remaining:
NIGHT TWO
Csargo, a Townie, was found dead in the morning. The mafia had killed him to death.
Player list
1. GeneralHankerchief
2.Visorslash, Survivor, Lynched on Day One
3.BSmith, Townie, Lynched on Day Two
4. Ishmael
5. seireikhaan
6. johnhughthom
7.Kagemusha, Townie, Killed by Mafia on Night One
8.Csargo, Townie, Killed by Mafia on Night Two
9. Winston Hughes
10. Montmorency
11. landlubber
It is now DAY THREE.
Time remaining: