I'm hosting a game!

[landlubber]

It doesn't seem logical to me that you'd be so willing to claim early. It's a big risk to draw this much attention to yourself, and the payoff is... what, exactly? Hoping to earn our trust so that we won't lynch you? Why didn't you just wait until you were in some kind of danger before claiming?

[Visor]

It doesn't seem logical to me that you'd be so willing to claim early. It's a big risk to draw this much attention to yourself, and the payoff is... what, exactly? Hoping to earn our trust so that we won't lynch you? Why didn't you just wait until you were in some kind of danger before claiming?

Because I am a pretty good townie and I never make it to endgame.

Basically what this does is narrow the pool for other players, and keeps me out of harms way. Its playing to my win condition.

[Visor]

I've literally never claimed this early ever

so its already likely that I am telling the truth, plus it makes no sense from any perspective for me to claim this role.

I can link you to every scum and third party etc game I've ever played.

[Visor]

*any other perspective to claim this role

I should say.

[landlubber]

I've literally never claimed this early ever

Pretty much every mafia player in history could say that, given that you've claimed well before night 1. I wasn't going to vote for you because this strategy is so dubious as mafia, but your defense of calling this much attention to yourself (which, surely, you should have expected) is so flinchy and unprepared that I'm having second thoughts. Novelty is not a defense, and saying you're a good townie isn't either, given that you could easily win with the mafia. Why shouldn't I vote for you? The town doesn't need you to win.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I wonder if Double A's going to continue to thank all non-El Barto posts in this thread.

[seireikhaan]

Yes, that's probably correct. It's pretty darn suspicious that someone would reveal a role like that on day one. A jester? ....Nah, that would be against The Rules, you're silly. I kinda think we should leave him for the mafia to dead him. But... well, I suppose that's possible. Nah, I'm leaving him unless you can come up with a better argument than that.

Then, it's a question of whether GH is mafia trying to capitalize on him. Wait, yeah, you're right. GH wouldn't jump out that hard on day one over something silly like that if he was mafia, he'd play it a bit more low key.

Of course, then it gets pretty random who we vote for. Any suggestions?

Wait, what do I call him? Oh right....

Vote: Ishmael

Not a bad suggestion, yeah. That'll work. Maybe.

[Ishmael]

I'm inclined to believe Visorslash for now, given that claiming as he's done would seem to entail more risk than reward were he scum. Of course, the same holds true if he's town, but one tends to be more willing to take risk in town games, since you tend to get more of them and thus have less to lose.

So, pseudo-random vote then:

Vote: Csargo.
I don't trust people whose names begin with silent letters.

I don't trust landlubbers. I bet you've never even hunted a great white whale.

vote: landlubber

(OMGUSing 'khaan was tempting, I'll admit, but his 'Call me Ishmael' won me over).

[Ishmael]

Ooh, thanks for the excuse to link to one of my favorite philosophical concepts that relates to Mafia!

Problem of induction

Scumcatch and Hume on D1, it's like I never stopped playing.

Also, GH, thanks for the half hour detour through Wikipedia .

[Double A]

Of course! From which deli?

Hm, know any good Jewish ones?

I wonder if Double A's going to continue to thank all non-El Barto posts in this thread.

I'm not thanking john either.

[Montmorency]

Vote: Visorslash

Lynch him now or we'll just end up lynching him tomorrow.

[Winston Hughes]

unvote; vote: Visorslash

Booo! Those cornball antics may play in the sticks, but this is Capital City!

[Ishmael]

unvote; vote: Winston Hughes

Seems a much better option than landlubber, actually.

[Winston Hughes]

How's that, then?

[Ishmael]

The combination of a vote without any real reason evident, on a person who has made a controversial claim leaves open the possibility that you were looking to slip onto the bandwagon without having to attract too much notice. At the very least it would be nice if you could elaborate if you're voting for Visor because you think his claim is scummy (e.g. GH, landlubber), because you think he'll be an ongoing distraction otherwise (e.g. Montmorency), or for a third reason.

Plus, having looked over landlubber's posts he seems sincere. I would have moved my vote off him sometime today anyway.

EDIT: And of course, the host removed the suggestion to vote from you between the sign-ups player list and the game start player list. Clearly that's a subtle hint that he doesn't want his mafia killed off too soon. johnhughthom, you're next.

[Visor]

Vote: Visorslash

Lynch him now or we'll just end up lynching him tomorrow.

Yeah this makes no sense. Either you actually believe I'm mafia with the ~stupidest play of all the time, or you're just seeking to waste d1. Not all of you can actually be scum, and I'm sure there is a townie amongst you, and any of you that are town would be wise to put some effort to actually looking at other players rather than going for the easy low hanging fruit each round.

unvote; vote: Visorslash

Booo! Those cornball antics may play in the sticks, but this is Capital City!

You're smarter than this Winston. I suppose me saying this gives you an easy opportunity to keep your vote on me, but we'll see.

Pretty much every mafia player in history could say that, given that you've claimed well before night 1. I wasn't going to vote for you because this strategy is so dubious as mafia, but your defense of calling this much attention to yourself (which, surely, you should have expected) is so flinchy and unprepared that I'm having second thoughts. Novelty is not a defense, and saying you're a good townie isn't either, given that you could easily win with the mafia. Why shouldn't I vote for you? The town doesn't need you to win.

Well besides the fact that voting me is pretty much against your win condition as I am not mafia and by voting me you have no intention of actually solving the game or finding wolves. If I get lynched you guys go into basically day 1 round 2 because you don't have a town flip to check motivations from and scum can easily hide under a lynch all non town persona because that plays into their wincon of not getting lynched and reducing the pool of players even though I could technically win with them.

In any event I will not be siding with the mafia as I don't feel that it is very fun and I feel I should have just been a VT rather than a survivor, though I guess me claiming survivor probably puts a huge and easy arrow on my head for a lynch.

[Winston Hughes]

The combination of a vote without any real reason evident, on a person who has made a controversial claim leaves open the possibility that you were looking to slip onto the bandwagon without having to attract too much notice. At the very least it would be nice if you could elaborate if you're voting for Visor because you think his claim is scummy (e.g. GH, landlubber), because you think he'll be an ongoing distraction otherwise (e.g. Montmorency), or for a third reason.

Okay, that's a decent enough explanation. What you suspect is pretty much the mirror opposite of how I actually play the game, but you're not to know that.

The reason for my vote is that I think Visor's claim is very boring, but only if it's true. At this stage, that's all I'm going to say on the matter. There's a long time left until the end of day.

[Visor]

I'm basically a bulletproof townie for all intents and purposes. No mafia is going to PM me and say hey me and x are the mafia don't vote us k thanks. And I guess from the town perspective its sorta suspiscious as if the claim is successful I will be making it to endgame unopposed basically.

If there is some sort of cop I guess I would request a scan of me simply to prove I am who I say I am though I that is a bad scan and actually pretty selfish but it secures my victory if they out the scan at some point.

I would ask that you give me at least a days grace and that you read me based off my words and actions and less of my claim. You can read the previous two games el barto hosted here where I was mafia and both and note a distinct difference in playstyle. If you have any idea of how I play you probably already noticed a difference in tone.

[Visor]

Okay, that's a decent enough explanation. What you suspect is pretty much the mirror opposite of how I actually play the game, but you're not to know that.

The reason for my vote is that I think Visor's claim is very boring, but only if it's true. At this stage, that's all I'm going to say on the matter. There's a long time left until the end of day.

I agree completely. I wish I was a vanilla townie. Being a survivor is fun in the sense that I have to manage town to not fear/paranoia lynch me and mafia not to kill me but it sorta takes the fun out that I don't have to solve the game.

But I signed up to play and I like solving games so I will be attempting to find out who the mafia is.

[Visor]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ame-signups%21
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...a-Game-1/page7

Last two games on here that I randed mafia.

A much different approach.

[Winston Hughes]

Either you actually believe I'm mafia with the ~stupidest play of all the time, or you're just seeking to waste d1.

Firstly, I think you'd fancy yourself to get away with the '~stupidest play of all the time' defence here.

Secondly, if it would be so stupid a claim for scum, wouldn't it be even more stupid for a survivor?

Thirdly, as above, I think the claim is just boring if true, and I don't see you taking the boring option.

You're smarter than this Winston.

Apparently not.

I suppose me saying this gives you an easy opportunity to keep your vote on me, but we'll see.

Now this I find interesting. Do you really think I'd vote for you as an easy option, whatever my alignment was?

[Visor]

Firstly, I think you'd fancy yourself to get away with the '~stupidest play of all the time' defence here.

Secondly, if it would be so stupid a claim for scum, wouldn't it be even more stupid for a survivor?

Thirdly, as above, I think the claim is just boring if true, and I don't see you taking the boring option.



Apparently not.



Now this I find interesting. Do you really think I'd vote for you as an easy option, whatever my alignment was?

I didn't really think about the claim but I honestly figure myself for an early nightkill target so I figured I would claim immediately as it was my best chance.

And yes whilst it is boring and I don't like boring I also like to play to my win condition and I figure being upfront about this gives me the best chance of success.

And potentially I think you might (depends if you keep the vote), because getting rid of me gets rid of a potential threat, narrows the player pool and takes any sort of heat of you and a potential partner if mafia.

There are arguments both ways but I think lynching me today is inherently pro mafia.

[Visor]

How likely do you think it is I am telling the truth Winston?

[seireikhaan]

Hey, that's actually a pretty good point. If we leave him around, the mafia would leave him alone until the last day, and then we're forced to just chit chat about him all of that round. He might distract from who the real mafia target would be.

Wait, that's also true. If he *is* mafia, and there's a backup plan, this wouldn't actually be a half-bad ploy. Rile up discussion on himself and get his partner to sail through scot-free. What do we call that? It was some chess term... yeah, that's the word! I did one of those once, if I recall. Anyways, I still kinda feel like this is generally too stupid to be a legitimate mafia ploy.

Wait, but if he's mafia and we accepted that logic, he skates free to the last lynch almost certainly. Hey, this aint a bad ploy at all... hrm.... Yeah, it is a tough one. Still, I think for now I'll keep my vote where it is for the time being, how 'bout you?

[Winston Hughes]

How likely do you think it is I am telling the truth Winston?

<50%

How likely do you think it is that I'm scum?

[BSmith]

Dammit Visor. You are making me actually think on D1. Why can’t this just be a lazy random vote day?!

I am inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt for now, though I agree completely with Winston that you would be more than capable of pulling off the WIFOM ploy precisely because it would not be the boring approach.

[Visor]

<50%

How likely do you think it is that I'm scum?

:(

Its hard for me to come to a conclusion on that yet. I sorta need everyone else to weigh in so I can judge the responses. I guess I sorta lean town for now based on you keeping your position.

Dammit Visor. You are making me actually think on D1. Why can’t this just be a lazy random vote day?!

I am inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt for now, though I agree completely with Winston that you would be more than capable of pulling off the WIFOM ploy precisely because it would not be the boring approach.

My meta is working against me!

Wait, that's also true. If he *is* mafia, and there's a backup plan, this wouldn't actually be a half-bad ploy. Rile up discussion on himself and get his partner to sail through scot-free. What do we call that? It was some chess term... yeah, that's the word! I did one of those once, if I recall. Anyways, I still kinda feel like this is generally too stupid to be a legitimate mafia ploy.

Wait, but if he's mafia and we accepted that logic, he skates free to the last lynch almost certainly. Hey, this aint a bad ploy at all... hrm.... Yeah, it is a tough one. Still, I think for now I'll keep my vote where it is for the time being, how 'bout you?

I'll entertain this hypothesis: If I was mafia this is a terrible self sacrifice because I don't gain any equity for my partner in this scenario. I'm all for self sacrificial plays and have done them in the past but they're all designed to pull out a win quickly generally.

And if I'm mafia and you take me at my word I will indeed probably skate by to end of game.

Its a risk I guess. That is why I am asking you to read me based off my posts at this stage rather than my claim because that should give you a better indication of my alignment.

[Visor]

A question before I go Winston, If you do think I am lying, do you think I am lying from a town perspective or a mafia perspective?

[BSmith]

Given the general negative knee-jerk reaction to claims like this (“ZOMG He is not town! LYNCH HIM!!!!”) regardless of what the actual claim is, a ploy like this would have extremely long odds. So extreme that it would be highly unlikely for an actual scummer to make that bet.

What the claim has done though is take all the air out of any other case that might be made. Given that D1 is usually random votes it might be too much to expect a decent discussion on alternatives, but I certainly hope we can start.

Of course as I write this I am struggling to not just go random myself…

[Winston Hughes]

A question before I go Winston, If you do think I am lying, do you think I am lying from a town perspective or a mafia perspective?

The fact I'm voting for you would seem to answer that.

In any case, the '~stupidest play' defence isn't working for me.