Arthurian : Total War

To see better what we need in terms of cities for each provinces, this is a list (have a look at the other one to see if all names are correct) of the provinces who need a capital :

BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - ?
- Fidach - ?
- Ce - ?
- Circind - ?
- Fotla - ?
- Fortiu - ?
- Fib - ?
- Orkney - ?

BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Regia - ?
- Sussex - ?
- Wessex - ?
- Kent (Juts) - Canterbury
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Essex - Colchester
- Colun?

BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - ?
- Mercia - ?
- Lindsey - ?
- Deira - ?

names with * are in Latin, I'd rather like celtic names if possible.

I have found some names for the Franks :
- Anstrustions : the elite of the Frankish armies, that form the personnal gard of the king, it correspond to your king's warband ~D
- Nutriti 'the feed' : young nobles that are feed and trained at the king's court.
- Scara : mean 'army'.

Some images at :
http://clionide.free.fr/Pouvoir_fonctions.htm

http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/games/ar...72EarlyFranks/

I have take a look at a few sites on the Frankish history and I think we have to decide one thing.

If we want historical accurancy for the Franks, we have to extend the map eastward and southward and add others factions like :
- The Wisigoths (or the Aquitains who replace them later) who control Aquitaine, Provence (and also Spain but it's a bit too south).
- The Burgondi who own east Gaul
- The Alemani who control actual Alsace
- eventually the Kingdom of Syagrius, who was one of the last Roman in Gaul, but beaten by Clovis in 486...

otherwise the Franks, thought staying playable, will be essentially an adversary for the continental Britons, thought Clovis allowed them to install in West Armorica in 495, Franks and Bretons became ennemis around 550.

The most common Gaelic mercenaries were Gasraidha (literally 'Rabble'); they were generally criminals who had been kicked out of their tribes. They would be ill-equipped, unreliable, but available in large number for very little; they'd also actually be found more outside of Ireland than inside. While criminals were hired sometime in a pinch, most of the time law-abiding Gaels were more than happy to just kill them, so they usually took foreign employment. There were also Babuanna ('Paid Fighters'), who were professional mercenaries; they would be much better equipped and trained, and far less likely to flee, but also more rare, and more common in Ireland than outside of Ireland. The average Celtic mercenary, in general, was a criminal, though professional bands had existed as long as anyone is writing about the Celts (such as the iron age Gaesatae of Gaul; they were professional mercenaries). However, criminals were the most common. Celtic law expelled criminals from their tribes, so they had to seek employment doing anything they could to ensure they could eat. Many of them, sometimes even MOST of them, sought employment as mercenaries. Celtic pirates were also mercenaries often, but piracy was a usual part of a Celtic war, so pirates weren't viewed as criminals (unless they were performing criminal acts to the kingdom that is supposed to be supporting them).

I was thinking about a big problem for the game : the potentiel strengh of the Domnonian faction.
They will own Domnonia, Durotrigia, Kernyw, Glastenning, Baddan, Ynis Weith, Gloui, Gwinntguic, Ceri, Celomion and Lundein in South Britain, plus eventually Gwent, Glywising, Ergyng and Dyfed in Wales ; and on the continent Brittany.

So I plan to : make Gwent as a playable faction and share Brittany between one or two Briton factions, by giving per example Cornouailles to the Gwent, plus make east territories of Domnonia difficult to defend when facing the Saxons.

Would you want Dyfed as another faction ? Hoping that we will have 21 factions slots (or more) in BI...

Finally I think we have to keep Wisigoths/Aquitaine as a faction, and so extend the map a little southward... the Burgondi, Alemani, Frisons and Syagrius Kindgom will be rebels (maybe with important armies, otherwise the Francs will be too powerful quickly). After all the mod is called 'Arthurian : Total War' ; not 'Clovis : Total War' ~D

We can also begin to think of what symbols each faction will have.

Ok, I have done a lot of search this day and completed the list of Britons cities. See https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=43 for the list.

Finally (I know I am discussing with myself for a longtime ~D ) we will keep the actual solution for the continent, featuring Britons, Franks and Wisigoths/Aquitains.
I have add Dyfed and Gwent to the faction list, Dyfed will own Cornouailles in Brittany, Domnonia will own Domnonée and Gwent will own Bro-Erec.
Franks and Wisigoths will stay playable but only a part of Gaul will be available in the map, so this two factions are only a challenge for the continental Britons, we have to keep in mind that this mod is focused on Britain... except if BI allow us to put more than 21 factions ingame but it is not even sure that there will be 21 factions slots remaining in BI (know that sucks, but there is a lot of interesting features in BI indead).

An updtated unit list, I have put the descriptions within ~:)

UNIT LIST
* Here we have to find others ideas, and to change generic names and standart unit 'heavy spearmen', an others, by more historical ones.
* I also need ideas for regional units (like Domnonian cavalry or Llydaw Blackshields)
* I added some images (mainly from DBA and Osprey) to some units. There are only here to show you an idea of those units, you can post some if you had.
Pictures will be remplaced by screenshots when the skins will be done.

BRITONS UNITS : (Agraes, Ranika, Trashaholic & Ian)
Cavalry :

https://img364.imageshack.us/img364/...chomawr0qp.jpg
Marchomawr (Heavy cavalry)
Britons were well known in the dark ages for their cavalry. In the poem 'y Gododdin', by the bard Aneurin, 300 British horsemen fought Angle invaders at Cathraeth in the kingdom of Gododdin and only one returned, Aneurin himself. The Machromawr are made up of men from the richest warrior households who can afford a good horse, a spatha, a round shield, a spangelhelm and chain mail or scale armour. These well armoured powerful horsemen make a formidable opponent, but must be commanded correctly to be truly devestating in battle.
(Very expensive, strong charge, good attack, good defense, small unit, sword or/and spear, scale or chain mail armor, spangelhem, red cloack, round shield).

https://img364.imageshack.us/img364/...acontwn3un.jpg
Marca Contwn (Contus cavalry)
The Romans, who occupied Britain before the Aurthurian period, recuited soldiers from all over their empire. Part of the Roman garrison in Britain was from Sarmatia whose heavy cavalry was of a very high quality. Some historians theorise that Aurthur and his kinghts were actually Sarmatian horse-warriors themselves. The naturally skilled horsemen of the Sarmatian steppes heavily influenced British cavalry, inspiring some soldiers to fight as an almost Carbon-copy of them. They had a long lance-like spear, the 'Contus', which, due to its length, meant they wore their sheilds on their backs. They were also wore heavy scale armour, and so were a very effective heavy shock cavalry.

https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/...gluoedd7dd.jpg
Marchogluoedd (Light cavalry)
Britain's wide variety of landscapes meant certain kingdoms, where the land was flatter and more horse-friendly, employed very cavalry oriented armies; the Marchogluoedd were the fast agile scouts of these armies. Riding the fastest horses their land could muster, these lightly armed and lightly armoured warriors would rush ahead of the main host peppering the enemies with javelins and making careful observations and reporting enemy positions to their commanders. These scouts wore no armour and carried no weapons apart from their javelins, which could of course act as improvised spears, as such they sould be kept as far away from combat as possible.

https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/...umonyna3dx.jpg
Marca Dumonyna (Domnonia cavalry)
need to control Domnonia
The wealth, fertile soil and landscape of Dumnonia (modernday Devon, South West England) allowed the locals to breed horses that weren't just beasts of burden; they bred powerful warhorses and became renowned for their horsemanship in the field of battle. Dumnonia is supposedly the setting for Camelot and their cavalry no doubt inspiring the legends of Arthur and his knights (some even claim that Arthur was a Dumnonian warlord). The Marca Dumonyna wore chain mail (or scale) and red cloaks and carried a spear, a sword, a round shield and a spangelhelm; they can only be recruited in Dumnonia.

Marca Llydaw (Llydaw cavalry) (need to control Brittany)
The Britons in Brittany, or Llydaw as it was also known, were famed horsemen and recruited powerful cavalry that were pivotal in the numerous Breton victories over the Franks. The warriors of Llydaw were known for their distinctive black shields and their cavalry for their destructive hit and run javelin attacks. The Llydaw cavalry wore white cloaks and equipped their famous black round shield as well as javelins and a sword, unfortunately for any budding emporer they could only be recruited in Brittany, meaning they must be conquered and subdued before joining any foreign nation's army, a tough task indeed.
Spangelhem, white cloack, black round shield, javelins, sword.

Teulu
Literally meaning “family”, the Teulu were the professional noble bodyguards of individual princes and chieftains. Although cavalry are generally not best suited to the rough hilly and mountainous terrain of Britain, the Teulu often rode into battle. Being of the nobility, the Teulu could afford the best of military equipment and were very well armed by Celtic standards: they wore chain or scale mail and helmets, and carried a shield and a lance, making them a pivotal force on the battlefield.

Strong charge
Very good Attack
Good Morale
Armoured
(Should be pretty expensive)

Infrantry :

Rherel (Heavy spearmen)

Gwaywffynabwre (clan spearmen)

Bonheddwyr
The Bonheddwyr were free nobles, the elite foot soldiers of a Chieftain’s armies. Before a battle these champions would often walk forward in front of their army insulting, taunting and challenging their opposition (much to the amusement of their fellows), and be accompanied by shouting and jeering from the lower ranking men, and the din of their war trumpets. The Bonheddwr were lightly armoured, and the individual carried a spear, a small round shield and several javelins into battle.

40 man unit
fast
strong charge
very good attack
good defence
armoured
good morale

https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/...wyrmawr4hz.jpg https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/...yrmawr29pj.jpg
Rhyfelwyrmawr
"Great Warriors"

Aeson Llydaw (Llydaw Blackshields)
need to control Brittany
The Brythonic nations were renowned for the ferocity and skill of their warriors, and the British exiles in Brittany, or Lldaw as it was also known, were no exception. Breton use of a combination of mobile cavalry and powerful infantry, such as the Aeson Llydaw, provided them with numerous victories over enemies like the Franks. Like their hore riding counterparts they equipped round black sheilds and a variety of weapons, and like them could only be recruited in Brittany itself.


Bêrfelawre Merionydd (Merionydd long spearmen)
The spear was the weapon of choice in Wales, with those from the North being particularly skilled in its use. The men of the Merionydd area of Gwynedd were renowned throughout for their superb ability with the spear. The general consensus amongst the Welsh was: “the longer the spear the better”, and as such the men of Merionydd carried spears as long as pikes. As well as their pikes, they had small round shields and fought in Phalanx-like formations.

60 man unit (best in deep formations etc.),
fast,
good defence
weak attack,
no armour
only available in Gwynydd

Arwrweision
Literally mean ‘brave men’, the Arwrweision are the veterans of numerous battles, they are the non-noble elite of a British Chieftain’s army. It was considered an honour amongst Britons to be drafted into military service, so all able-bodied men had a weapon and were up for a fight. Carrying similar equipment to their fellow peasants, swords, bows and shields, the defining characteristic of the Arwrweision is that, although they share their comrade’s eagerness for battle, they don’t share their eagerness to run away.

60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
very good morale

https://img373.imageshack.us/img373/...onaulue2uw.jpg https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...naulue21ru.jpg
Aulue (Town Militia)
It was a legal obligation for all men over a certain age to fight when required in Briton kingdoms, indeed most, if not all, saw it as a great privilage and were eager for battle. Many kept their own weapons so men could be rapidly form militia units (or Aulue) when their kingdom needed their service. They often fought surprisingly well, but were quick to turn tail and run if things were going badly. Briton militia units were neither well nor badly equipped and could hold their own in a fight, but a wise commander will note their limitations and not commit them against heavily armed elite troops.

Galweddyl Aulue (Gaelic levies)
need to control Dyfed, Ceredigion, Ynis Mona, Ireland or Gwynedd

Cleddyfcludwra (Sword carriers)

Milwre
'Soldiers'

Bêrfelawre (Long spearmen)
The Britons were particularly proficient in the use of the spear and those who were particularly skilled generally preferred spears of the longer variety. The tactics of these soldiers were similar to the phalanxes of Macedonia or the pike regiments of the Renaissance, tactics very effective against cavalry. The Bêrfelawre were generally part-time soldiers and due to the cumbersome nature of their weapons, their equipment was fairly basic: light armour, if any at all, and a small round shield.

Campwyrau (Champions)

Rherel Manau (Heavy Manx Spearmen)
The Isle of Man is a tiny Island that lies in a Strategic position in the middle of the Irish Sea, therefore All manner of peoples look at it with hunger. This could be seen as a downfall or a reason to flee yet Mannanan and his heirs re-worked the army, producing armoured spearmen to fend off the raiders that come from Ireland, Rheged and and Gwynedd.
These men are perfectly equipped to fight in the hills of Mann. Disciplined, well armoured yet agile, the Manx Spearmen make a living out of fighting for their existence. They are recruited from the nobles or families with enought money to buy the Chainmail and heavy spears they take into battle.


Bowmen and skirmishers :

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...aethwre6ya.jpg
Saethwre (bowmen)

Rhyfelwyr
"Warrior"
Constant in fighting between the petty kingdoms of post-Roman Britain and skirmishes with the English led to the Britons becoming accustomed to war, they became a “jack of all trades”, perfectly suited to irregular warfare. Carrying a powerful bow, that could pin a horseman’s leg to his horse, a large sword and a small round shield, the prominent tactics of the Britons were to ambush the enemy, pepper them with arrows and then charge in for the kill.

60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
poor morale

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...tonardu2ru.jpg
Ardu (Levies)

Fwnmilwre (Slingers)
The sling is one of the oldest and simplest weapons there is and was a favourite of the pre-Roman Britons. In the times of Arthur the bow was becoming more popular, but due to the simplicity of its construction and use, and the huge availability of ammunition, the sling was still widely used. In many ways a sling could out perform a bow and commanders would be foolish to ingore their usefullness on the battlefield. Other than their slings, the fwnmilwre (slingers) were lightly armed and would not last long in close combat.

https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/...nhelwyr1pb.jpg
Helwyr
"Huntsmen"
The Welsh people were keen huntsmen and used the hunt to practice the skills needed in battle. There are numerous Welsh stories and poems linked with their passion for hunting, most notably the tale of Prince Llewelyn and his greyhound Gellert. To be a good huntsman meant a men could command a powerful role in the royal courts and society in general, and could become very rich. The Helwyr equipped powerful bows, enabling them to kill the toughest of quarry, but very little close combat weaponry, thus should be kept out of melees.

60 man unit
Very Fast
Very good missile attack/ very accurate
Poor in close combat
Skirmishers
No armour

IRISH UNITS (Ranika) :

Cavalry :

Guirran
(Horsemen with javelins, and an axe/spear in melee, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
Description - Gaelic light cavalry sticks to the common methods of Gaelic combat. They are skirmishers by default, meant to ride toward an opponent, throw javelins, and retreat, ad infinitum. Training and experience has made them fairly good at this, and the Guirran (horsemen), later called hobblers or hobilars, became a staple of English and French armies as well.

Amguirran Deaisbard
(Gaelic heavy cavalry with axes/swords, and lance, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, should be a bit late period) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Deaisbard are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On horseback, they form the Amguirran (heavy horsemen); Gaels don't tend to use much heavy cavalry, but when they do, they form a powerful reserve on the field for mowing down enemy infantry.

Carpata -
Gaelic chariot; chariot models don't count (they are counted with siege engines), but it'd probably need a new model for the driver. Would probably look similar to a British Wetwang chariot in shape, but less decoration than you see on reconstructions; riders would be Sleanaghta or similar infantry, maybe even just use them, in which case no new model would be needed at all; would raise allied morale
Description - The Gaels still used chariots in this period. They were in rapid decline in use, and had rarely been much of a weapon for war outside of a few regions, where the ground was smooth and flat enough to make good use of them, but they were still a popularized possession, and it was rare for aristocrats to not own at least one chariot for formal events. In war, they were used to drop nobles off into the middle of the fight (which can't be replicated in game), and as a missile platform from which the riders would hurl javelins, and also to crush light infantry by riding over them with the chariot's substantial weight.

Infantry :

Kernbannal
('Levy Troop'; unarmored club or spear militia with darts, fight as skirmishers)-
Description - The hierarchy of Gaelic societies is a bit unusual; it lacks feudal nobles and the subsequent varying ranks of nobles and peasants. However, Kerns tend to fall near the bottom. Without much money or inherent fighting ability, they cannot afford good equipment, nor are they likely to be sponsored by an arras (aristocrat). However, that matters little. Most of the time, a kern is just a man called up to form a militia in times of strife, and fight with whatever is on hand; usually hunting spears or solid clubs, accompanied by light, small javelins, often called darts. Later, kerns would become the basic soldier of Irish armies, but in this period are only militia.

Sleanaghta
(Spearmen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather vest/coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The slea or gae (spear) is the preferred weapon of most Gaelic soldiers. Accompanied with heavy throwing spears and a solid Gaelic targe, these spearmen form the backbone of any Gaelic army. They are professional soldiers, who either bought their equipment, or were sponsored by a wealthier member of society. They are intended to hold positions, and are often placed around missile troops to defend them from cavalry and any other threats that might occur.

Tuanaghta
(Axemen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The tua (axe) is one of the oldest and most favored weapons of the Gaels. The Gaelic axe has a particularly weighty head, meant to crush helmets and smash shields. With it, like most Gaels carry, are carried two heavy throwing spears, thrown into an enemy position before a charge. The Gaelic axemen act as a kind of bridge between medium and heavy infantry.

Claiomhnaghta
(Mid-length swordsmen with javelins, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The claiomh, climh, or clom (sword) is an expensive weapon, but generally well made. Faster than an axe, and generally more wieldy than a spear, it allows the soldier using it to manuever into position for thrusts and slashes. The typical Gaelic sword is shorter than a longsword, but not a shortsword. It generally has a leaf-shaped blade, meant to offer wide, sheering cuts, and devestating thrusts that open wide, gaping wounds. It is accompanied with a heavy Gaelic targe, and three light throwing spears; these spears are favored for swordsmen, so to enhance the mobility of these soldiers, but keep them able to fight in the traditional Gaelic manner.

Gaemornaghta
(Spearmen with long, two-handed spears (not actually pikes though), maybe use phalanx, or schiltron, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The Gaemor or Gaemhor (great spear) is a lengthy spear generally used in two hands. It is used in a tight formation as an anti-cavalry and anti-infantry measure; it is difficult to manuever past a wall of spear heads. While in use for centuries, this type of soldier grew increasingly more common among the Gaels as the dark ages and middle ages drove on; a response to the growing importance of cavalrymen.

Deaisbard
(Gaelic heavy infantry with axes, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, throwing spears) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Deaisbard are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On foot, they form heavy infantry soldiers, with throwing spears, like most other Gaelic infantry, to disrupt an enemy line before charging. When defending, they use a tight shieldwall, to absorb charges.

Arras
(Gaelic general unit, foot nobles with swords, scale armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, javelins) -
Description - Gaelic 'nobility' are drawn from numerous places; everyone from the lowest chief to the high king are considered Arras, as well as indepedent, wealthy merchants and traders. They can afford the best training, the best equipment, and the best soldiers to support them. Like other Gaels, they carry javelins to throw at their enemies before charging, and form a tight shieldwall-like formation to absorb an attack. They use long slashing and thrusting swords, which are fairly rare among Gaels. The heavy Gaelic targe, good quality scale armor, and a well-made iron helmet, provide them great protection against their enemies.

Rastriagha
(Berserkers, use a cudgel or hammer, round shield, probably wearing a crucifix (they were fanatics of different saint cults, and also generally trained soldiers), no armor) -
Description - The Gaels have their own berserker tradition, stemming from pagan times, but adapted well into the Christian era. The Irish are generally very fervent people; the most fervent soldiers tend to belong to saint cults, such as the cult of St. Finbar. Their devotion to their people and the Church keeps them constantly training. Many even join monastaries and are actually monks or priests. In battle, they enter a kind of religious-inspired frenzy, and kill anyone they see as a threat to Ireland or Christianity.

Inishnaghta
(Irish islanders from the satellite islands of Ireland, with heavy cloaks, no armor, large round shield, bipenne axe (two blades), heavy throwing spears, leather helmet, painted skin regardless of faction, Ui Neill and Mumainh only; available in the western provinces of Ireland only) -
Description - The islanders of Ireland live among the many sattelite islands. They fight with a version of the Gaelic axe, with two blades, and carry heavy throwing spears. They still paint their skin, and are some of the bravest soldiers in Ireland, though they wear no armor, but a helmet, and instead use a heavy cloak as defense.

Caeisornaghta
(Gaelic macemen, with a round-headed mace {not flanged, like medieval period mace} or modified work hammer, round shield, throwing spears, leather helmet, padded armor) -
Description - The mace is an old, simple weapon. While popularized widely in Europe by the advent of plate armor, Gaels, the Irish particularly, have used the mace for centuries, with a smooth spherical or egg-shaped head, or a hammer head. They are another arm of Gaelic infantry, and fight like axe or spearmen, with heavy spears thrown before a charge. The mace is essentially a glorified club, but it is very effective against most types of armor and any shield.

Dinuadda-Claiomhnaghta
(Irish longswordsmen; using longsword in two-hands though (not a greatsword), padded armor, iron helmet, available in southern Ireland) -
Description - Southern Irish longswords sometimes accomodated longer grips, meant to be used in two hands. Longswords were somewhat rare in Ireland to begin with, and these particular weapons rarely proliferated far, but they were a favored weapon of numerous champions and wealthier soldiers, as they could be used in one or two hands. In two hands, they would be able to deal more damage.


Ruardi-Laecha
Ui Neill only, elite.
Ruardi-Laecha (Red Warriors). They used longswords, round shields, javelins, wore chain armor, painted their faces with red dyes, and wore a red under-tunic, and fought as a type of elite warrior, on foot and on horseback, but were pretty rare.

Audheran-Laecha
Dal Riada only, elite.
Audheran-Laecha were elite spearmen, fought unarmored, covered themselves in a kind of white powder, and mostly relied on agility in combat.

Corcanneitae
Mumainha only, elite
Corcanneitae were used by the men of Munster; they were 'naked fanatics', essentially. Would have an axe, shield, cloak, otherwise be naked.

Bowmen and skirmishers :

Soikernbannal
('Levy Archer Troop'; only Gaelic archers they would have, levy archers with knives, hooded cloaks, hide in tall grass, but not really much good) -
Description - Gaels rarely employ professional archers as soldiers, except mercenaries. They, personally, see little value in archers. However, when they do employ their own, they tend to be simple levies of hunters, who, while proficient with their bows, are not soldiers, and easily chased off of a battlefield if engaged not properly defended, or if engaged in a melee.

Maiobhanaghta
(Gaelic slingers with knives and a small round shield, padded armor, leather helmet, better than their archers, and slings are substantially longer range than a normal bow) -
Description - The sling is still a popular weapon among the Gaels. It is far longer range than a regular bow, and a sling bullet of clay or stone is surprisingly deadly. Slingers in use by the Gaelic often are used to harass an enemy from great distance. Further, they are professional soldiers, not levies like Gaelic archers.

PICTISH UNITS : (Spongly & Ranika)

Cavalry :

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...marchan1em.jpg
Marchan
Picts were very proud of their horses, though only the rich could afford one, and were excellent cavalrymen. These men form the retinues of the minor nobles and are a versatile force in battle, able to harass the enemy with their javelins before closing in to fight hand to hand.

(Light cavalry, unarmoured with round bucklers, javelins and spears.)

Marchan Tho
Horsemen armed with axes.

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...mormaer4xh.jpg
Mormaers
Though never shown in Pictish art, it is probable that the kings and mormaers (high nobles) went into battle armoured and heavily armed. These men form the bodyguards of royalty and the rulers of the land, and fight as heavily armoured shock cavalry.

(Heavy cavalry, mailed with round bucklers, javelins and spears or swords.)

Infantry :

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...dodaoer1ro.jpg
Ludodaoer
The sons of wealthy freeholders and minor nobles, Pictish swordsmen are fast and skilful. They are not great defensive troops, as they lack armour or large shields, but they are deadly with their bucklers and short swords when used to attack in open order, and especially when closely supported by the spears of the poorer freemen. They can also be used as effective ambushers, being good at hiding and fast runners.

(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, short swords and posher tunics than the above unit.)

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...ltron019mt.jpg
Schiltron
Drawn from the ranks of freemen, farmers and other common folk, the Pictish schiltron would form a formidable wall of spears on the battlefield. They used long spears, shields slung over their shoulders, but went otherwise unarmoured. They fought in a phalanx, and while not elite professionals can be counted upon to give a good account of themselves.

(Heavy infantry, unarmoured, with round shields slung over their shoulders and long two-handed spears)

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...gairlom1cc.jpg
Gairlom (spearmen)
'Those who carry spears'
A basic spearmen unit.

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...hodaoer4xg.jpg
Chodaoer
Some freemen fight in less of a tight formation than the schiltron, wielding short Pictish axes and bucklers. They are fierce, but they do not have the morale of professional troops. They are fast, good at hiding, and make excellent raiders. They are not so good at defending themselves or holding a line though.

(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, javelins and “T-Bar” axes.)

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...orthern1ii.jpg
Northern Warriors
The northern Picts remained pagan for many years longer than their southern cousins, and may have retained somewhat different traditions. They are usually shown with shorter spears, and it may be that the rought terrain of Caithness and Orkney forbids the use of the formidable schiltron, encouraging these ferocious warriors to use looser formations.

(Light infantry, long fringed robes, square bucklers, javelins and spears.)

Thomordaoer (Two handed axemen)
An axeman armed with a two-handed axe (attested slightly by the (possibly fake) carving of the Rhynie man.).

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...mueboai9ep.jpg
Aumue Boai
('Naked Warriors', this is their name according Saint Columba)
Those warriors will fight naked, with sword and shield. They will be very fast, with a strong attack and a strong charge and like others picts infantry units can hide everywhere.

https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...aurmarh8kj.jpg
Gai Aurmahr ('Spear Masters')
Those elite warrriors will fight with spear.

Bowmen and skirmishers :

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...huntman8lm.jpg
Huntsmen
The Picts were very fond of hunting, and it is possible that units of huntsmen would have been drawn up and used to ambush important enemies in battle. These men are fast, lightly equipped, superb at hiding in almost any terrain and very accurate. They may have used a form of crossbow (the arcuballista of the Romans), though this would not have been the armour-piercing weapon of the middle ages but an accurate hunting bow.

(Light infantry, hooded mantle, arcuballista.)

Youths
Men too young to fight in the schiltron stand at the back and support their elders with a hail of javelins. They carry shields and can fight with their short spears if pressed, but they are relatively weak and their morale is brittle. They are fast runners though, and make good ambushers.

(Light infantry, unarmoured with round bucklers and a bundle of javelins. Fight in hand to hand with a short spear.)

Cingalom (slingers)
The sling is an universal weapon, Picts should use it.

Saiogdaoer (bowmen)
Those will be elite skirmisher in a small unit.

WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.

FRANKS UNITS : (Spongly & Agraes)

Cavalry :

https://img370.imageshack.us/img370/...ustions1vr.jpg
Anstrustions (King’s Warband)
Clovis or any of his sons/brothers would probably command a bodyguard of heavy cavalry, armoured in chainmail with shields, helms, spears and swords.

Count’s Warband
Elite warriors sworn to a powerful nobleman and armed and equipped from his pocket.

Infantry :

https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/...usehold0yf.jpg
Household Troops
Footmen raised and equipped from the pockets of the powerful nobles and kings of the Franks. After they captured Soissons the Franks had access to Roman arms factories and could equip their men better than most Germans. Chainmail, shields, spears, helms and throwing axes. Sturdy heavy infantry.

Foederati
Frankish warriors who have served in the Roman army, equipped in a slightly Roman style. Chainmail, angons, helms, swords and shields. Very good attackers who throw their angons before charging.

https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/...riors011wo.jpg https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/...riors020lq.jpg
Frankish Warriors
Tribal warriors, unarmoured but armed with shields, spears and throwing axes. A fierce barbarian levy, not organised or with great morale, but fairly nasty on the offensive.

Skirmishers :

Frankish Freemen
Poor tribesmen who have few weapons – perhaps they could be two units, one with bows and one with javelins. Certainly the Franks were hunters and trappers, and could have equipped a fair bundle of bowmen.

SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS : (Spongly)
All Saxon units should wear simple trousers with the legs below the knees bound tight with puttees.

Cavalry :

https://img50.imageshack.us/img50/64...cniht016kh.jpg
Cnihtas
"Mounted Retainers"
Saxon nobles rode to battle, but dismounted to fight. There is good evidence though that they would remount to pursue the enemy. Because this is impossible in RTW, it may be worth having a cavalry unit available to the Saxons. These men are nobles, but cannot really be expected to do much fighting from horseback. They should only be used for harrying the flanks or pursuing fleeing enemies.

(Light Cavalry with richly edged tunics, painted roundshields, spears.)

Horswealas
Britons Horsemen recruited to fight for the Saxons. They had a higher Wergild than other Welshman living on Saxon land.

Infrantry :

https://img50.imageshack.us/img50/35...esith018to.jpg
Gesithas
"Companions"
These are the elite forces of the great Saxon kings and athelings. Handpicked young warriors given the very best equipment and fed from the lord’s table. They swear the mead-bargain with their lord, giving loyalty to the death in return for mead, wealth and land. It is considered the greatest disgrace to live if your lord dies, and such men will be condemned to live as exiles. As a result, these units have exceptional morale, and will fight to the death rather than retreat unless their lord orders it.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, mail shirts and helms, all decorated to mark them out from lesser units -> Decorated helms and roundshields, spears, decorated swords, mail shirts. Richly edged tunics.)

https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/...hgeneat5di.jpg
Heorthgeneats
"Hearth-Friends"
This unit represents the hearth-troops of the eorldermen of the land – these nobles are usually chosen from the veterans of the king’s gesithas, and administer land and raise their own warbands. While not as well equipped or skilled as the king’s warriors, these men swear the same oaths to their own lords. They form an elite core of Saxon armies.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, some armour and helms. Noble, but not as spectacular looking as above -> Iron helms, painted round shields, short mail shirts, spears, plain swords, richly edged tunics.)

Duguth
"Older Warriors"
Thegns are the lowest rank of landholding noble in Saxon society, and are usually either born into the role or chosen from their earl’s warband. They raise their own retinues of warriors, and bring them to battle when their lord calls. These men represent the older veterans of such a warband. They are not all that well equipped or fast, but they are stubborn and excellent at holding the line.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, lang-seaxes and helms -> Iron helms, painted round shields, spears, plain swords, leather jerkin, edged tunics.)

https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/...geoguth4ac.jpg
Geoguth
"Younger Warriors"
These men are the younger, unmarried warriors of the warbands of the land’s thegns. They are fierce and aggressive, hoping to make a name for themselves and win great rewards from their lord. What they lack in experience, they make up for in enthusiasm. They throw their javelins before engaging the enemy in hand to hand combat.

(Light infantry with painted round shields, spears, seaxes, javelins, edged tunics.)

https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/...onceorl6jl.jpg
Ceorls
"Peasants"
Ceorls are the ordinary freemen and farmers of Saxon society. They are only very rarely called up to fight, usually only in times of emergency. They are all trained to some degree, as all Saxon freemen own and practice with weapons, but they cannot be expected to hold professional troops for long. They are at their best when standing in a shield wall adding weight to more experienced troops or outflanking the enemy.

(Light Infantry with plain round shields, plain tunics, spears, seaxes, Phrygian caps.)

Wulfbyrne
"Wolf-shirts"
Since the early days of the German tribes right through to the Viking age, the northern peoples have a tradition of fanatical warriors dedicated to Woden, the god of war and slaughter. These men are utter fanatics who believe themselves invulnerable to weapons, and run into battle wearing only the pelts of wolves. They are impetuous, ferocious and almost unequalled warriors, but there are only a few of them to be mustered. They are best used for breaking enemy shield walls so that other units can pour in behind them.

(Light infantry with bare chested, wolf skins worn as cloaks with the head as a “hood”, painted roundshields, plain swords, battle axes)

Wræccan
"Wanderers"
The Dark Ages are troubled times, and many bands of freebooters, pirates and outcasts from the Germanic tribes can be found across Europe looking for nobles to serve. Saxon kings frequently employ such bands – indeed, the king’s of the Gewissae began as leaders of such freebooting bands. They are savage, having nothing to lose, and experienced, but are treacherous and difficult to control.

(Light Infantry with painted roundshields, spears, fur or leather jerkin, plain swords, plain tunics, javelins. )

Skirmishers :

https://img394.imageshack.us/img394/...ongebur4zw.jpg
Geburs
"Serfs"
Poorer freemen are mustered for battle with whatever poor weapons they have. Usually they are employed as unarmoured skirmishers, using slings. Some may also carry javelins or staff slings (possibility for more units). They are fast runners, and most live as hunters or fishermen so are quite good at using the terrain to their advantage. Their morale is fragile though, and they cannot be expected to fight hand to hand – that is work for men of noble birth!

(Light infantry with tatty tunics, perhaps bare legged and footed, javelins or slings, no shields, seaxes, Phrygian caps.)

Others :

War Hounds*

MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS : (Ranika, Spongly, Agraes)

Frison Pirats*

Juts Warriors*

Wræccan
(Anglo-Saxon)
The Dark Ages are troubled times, and many bands of freebooters, pirates and outcasts from the Germanic tribes can be found across Europe looking for nobles to serve. Saxon kings frequently employ such bands – indeed, the king’s of the Gewissae began as leaders of such freebooting bands. They are savage, having nothing to lose, and experienced, but are treacherous and difficult to control.

(Light Infantry with shields, swords, helms and javelins)

Gasraidha
(Irish)
Gasraidha (litteraly 'rabble') were generally criminals who had been kicked out of their tribes. They would be ill-equipped, unreliable, but available in large number for very little; they'd also actually be found more outside of Ireland than inside. While criminals were hired sometime in a pinch, most of the time law-abiding Gaels were more than happy to just kill them, so they usually took foreign employment.

Babuanna
(Irish)
Babuanna ('Paid Fighters') were professional mercenaries; they would be much better equipped and trained, and far less likely to flee, but also more rare, and more common in Ireland than outside of Ireland.

Horswealas
(Briton/Saxon)
Britons Horsemen recruited to fight for the Saxons. They had a higher Wergild than other Welshman living on Saxon land.

Here some suggestions for factions symbols :

FACTIONS SYMBOLS
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia -> Red Dragon or Black Bear (in reference to Arthur)
- Rheged -> A Boar
- Powys -> An Eagle
- Gwynedd -> a War Dog (in reference to Maelgwn, 'Great Hound')
- Gododdin -> a Black Raven
- Strathclyde -> a Griffon
- Ebrauc -> a Late Roman Symbol, like this
http://truth-about-jesus.johreiki.net/chi-rho.jpg
- Elmet -> A Horse (in reference to Gwallawc Marchawc Trin, the 'Battle Horse')
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel -> Manx flag, in a more archaistic version (without plate armor ~D )
http://fp.fullfathom.f9.co.uk/images/manx%20flag.jpg
- Gwent & Glywysing -> A Bull
- Dyfed -> A Triskell

IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada

PICTS
- Picts -> A Pictish symbol, maybe like this one :
http://www.electricscotland.com/ston.../ddoublzed.gif

GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans) ->
- Angles (Pagans) -> Odin's Knot
- Juts (Pagans) -> White Horse on Green Background (emblem of Ceint)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
- Wisigoths (Aryans Christians)

The Saxons could have the dragon of Wessex as their banner, and the Jutes should have a white horse on a green field - the banner of Hengest's kingdom of Ceint.

Ok, I have update my previous message ~:)

Spongly, can you give me cities names for the Germanic provinces (I don't know if all exist in 480, correct me) ? Also for the Pictish if you know somes (thought we can't find all for the Picts, we will use the suffix -ichean like Ranika tell me to do).

I have just made a map showing the territories of each faction (Britons and Saxons for the moment). I know it is very bad quality, I will made a better one later ~D

https://img316.imageshack.us/img316/...ms040ft.th.png

Frankish warriors :

http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...0184_thumb.jpg

Saxons :

http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...8873_thumb.jpg

Britons and Picts :

http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/images2/britons1.jpg

Britons and Saxon :

http://members.aol.com/skyewrites/images2/britons2.jpg

Picts :

http://members.aol.com/scothist/images/picts1.jpg

Images from Osprey books ~D

Hi, I helped do the research for the Kingdom of the Englisc in AOVAF:TW I could post some info on early Saxon armies, kindoms, and federations if you'd like.

Well if you want a West Seaxon faction the start date will have to be after 514.

If you want to keep your start date then there should be only one Germanic settlement, the Jutish one of Kent set up by Hengest and Horsa.

As for banners, someone suggested the Dragon of Wessex, such a thing did not yet exist, and Thors hammer for the Angles is silly.

As for a Jutish, Seaxon and Anglish cavalry unit, one should not be included as these peoples always fought on foot and did not breed horses enough for such a unit to exist.

Anway, King arthur is meant to have existed in the first half of the sixth century. By then you could have the settlements/kingdoms of Diera (southern part of what was to become Northumbria), Weseax, a small part of the south-east of what is now England would be under Frakish controll. Basically there would be quite few raiding parties also based in the east. This period will be hard to put into MOD while keepng historical accuracy, because basically the Germanics were just small bands of adventurers with only two established kindoms.

Hi! Sorry i've been quite inactive lately, first i'm helping Britain: Romanorum Incursio and secondly i went on holiday...so Agreas? is there anything you wish me to do?
p.s i can also create maps...which is what i'm doing with B:RI, the map i'm using for that mods should be exactly the same as the one for this mod, all i'd need to do once i'm finished with B:RI is change the provinces...unfortunalty the mapwork on that mod is going to take time because it's my first crack at doing it for a mod, plus i'm always here as your man for the Ynys Manau Faction!!!

I have been away for a week and Im just coming back ~D

Bopa, it will be very kind of you to help us with the anglo-saxon ~:)

As I have read, at the starting date they were very few angles and saxons settlements in Britain, mainly the ancients foederati who will join Hengist revolt later. Some Kingdoms that I have made saxons in my province list were only taken later in the VIth century, but we have to deal with some facts :

- the starting date is 481. I have choose this date because I believe (it's only one theory between a lot) that the beginning of Arthur reign was around this date, with the culminance at the Battle of Badon (in 496 or in 516) and the end at Camlann in 536 or 542. In Gaul it's also the beginning of Clovis reign (that's why I have changed the date to 481, not 480). The date can be put a little later. When I have conceived the mod project I was thinking to make it start at Arthur's death, but I think a lot of people want to play with Arthur ~D
- the end date will be in the VIIth or the VIIIth century. At this period the different anglo-saxons kingdoms have merge, and as far I know the Juts weren't as powerful as that to be the only one saxon kingdom :dizzy2:
So if we can't put Mercia, Bernicia and others at this date we can put Angles, Juts and Saxons in the regions were there were foederati settlements. We have to pray to have more than 21 factions slots and to play with events such as merging factions.

So Bopa, you can give us a more appropriate starting date (the best will be before 496 but don't know if possible) and we will choose between this one and 481. You can have a look at our provinces list and tell us if it is good, and help us with saxon units :book:

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help ~:)

It seems that we will only have 17 factions in the BI campaign... hoping we can keep our 20 factions. If not, some suggestions of factions we will keep and of what we may make rebels.

BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia -> To keep
- Rheged -> To keep
- Powys -> To keep
- Gwynedd -> To keep
- Gododdin -> To keep
- Strathclyde -> To keep
- Ebrauc -> eventually rebels
- Elmet -> eventually rebels
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel -> eventually rebels
- Gwent & Glywysing -> To keep
- Dyfed -> eventually rebels

IRISH (Christian) -> all to keep
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada

PICTS
- Picts -> To keep

GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans) -> To keep or Saxon-Jutish faction
- Angles (Pagans) -> To keep
- Juts (Pagans) -> eventually rebels or make a Saxon-Jutish faction
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis) -> To keep
- Wisigoths (Aryans Christians) -> eventually rebels

I was also thinking to make campaigns later, focused on certain kingdoms/factions : the battles of Arthur, the struggle between Britons and Franks in Brittany, Urien Rheged, the fight between Picts, Scots, Strathclyders and Northumbrians... but all of this will only be made when our mod will be out ~D

The original game will still be on there, we dont need to get rid of any factions, there will be enough slots.....

Ranika and Trashaholic have helped me to complete the Britons unit lists. Now all names are in Brythonic, and Britons got the better selection of units. Now everyone can help me to complete units descriptions or give me ideas of specefic units (the better will be one or two unique units per faction).

See https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...0&postcount=86

For the Ynys Manau and galwyddel faction (if you saw my above post and are keeping them)
how about;
Mooar Shleiyder (heavy Spearmen)
or....
Mooar Marksleigh
Heavy Cavalry, i'm sure these have an actual name, other than heavy cavalry, i'll find them....all the names are in manx gaelic
EDIT; I found the Manx name for the Isle of Man, it is Ellan Vannin

Little issue for the Manx, about their language at the period. I have read that during the early VIth century the population was mainly briton, so I suppose Manx language doesn't exist yet (neither do Welsh, Cornish or Breton, wich were the same language at the time).

I think we can give for the Manaw and Galwyddel faction 2 units : a Manx unit (the spearman fits well) and a Galloway unit (maybe an axeman).
Don't know yet if those units will be recruitable only by their faction or by the briton faction that will control the area.

Anyway, can you describe those units a little ?

Ok, i was using a old manx translator on the internet (old Language, not old translator)
and i'll post in a minute.....so do you want me to find Manx Spearmen and Galloway Axemen in Breton then?

Quote:

---

so do you want me to find Manx Spearmen and Galloway Axemen in Breton then?

---

I think it will be more accurate, but can you quote your sources mentionning the manx spearmen ?

It was at Castle Rushen, in my town, and it said; The Manx Celts, at this time, had brilliant spearmen that held of Irish and Briton Raids for many years. These heavy spearmen, armoured in chain mail, were reformed by Manannan......
thats what i can remember, and it goes on to say stuff about the vikings so i stopped reading

Thinking about it for a bit, I think that the best way to deal with the Saxon, Angles and others given the early start date would be to include the homelands on the map – northern Germany, Denmark, and southern Scandinavia. With a fair number of boats at the start, they could harass the Britons before assembling enough troops to make a landing. You’ll just have to make British lands more prosperous to motivate the Saxons to invade!

Other than that, I’ve got a list of the armour and weapons and clothes that various Saxon units should have, assuming the “shield wall” formation in BI will use secondary weapons like the phalanx formation:

All Saxon units should wear simple trousers with the legs below the knees bound tight with puttees.

Family Members: Decorated masked helms (Sutton Hoo style – prevents the weirdness of identical family members faces), long mail shirts, splint arms and leg protection, decorated shield and sword. Richly edged tunics and arm rings.

Gesithas: Decorated helms and roundshields, spears, decorated swords, mail shirts. Richly edged tunics.

Hearthwerod: Iron helms, painted round shields, short mail shirts, spears, plain swords, richly edged tunics.

Duguth: Iron helms, painted round shields, spears, plain swords, leather jerkin, edged tunics.

Geoguth: Painted round shields, spears, seaxes, javelins, edged tunics.

Ceorls: Plain round shields, plain tunics, spears, seaxes, Phrygian caps.

Geburs: Tatty tunics, perhaps bare legged and footed, javelins or slings, no shields, seaxes, Phrygian caps.

Cnihtas: Richly edged tunics, painted roundshields, spears.

Wulfbyrne: Bare chested, wolf skins worn as cloaks with the head as a “hood”, painted roundshields, plain swords

Wraeccan: Painted roundshields, spears, fur or leather jerkin, plain swords, plain tunics, javelins.

Here are some pics of Saxon wargear for the use of any modellers we manage to find:

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/...utton_king.gif
A slightly cartoonish picture of the Sutton Hoo treasures, but this is roughly what the family members should look like.

http://www.siue.edu/~ejoy/Sutton%20H...%20Replica.jpg
A reconstruction of the masked Sutton Hoo helm, definately the sort of thing Saxon family members should wear.

http://albion-swords.com/images/armo...ld%20front.jpg
A typical Saxpn shield.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/csugg/o...tton%20hoo.gif
The sort of boar crest that might be present on top a Saxon iron helm.

http://www.saxonviolence.co.uk/photo...ield1small.JPG
A plain Saxon shield.

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/...on_shield2.gif
Half of the beautifully decorated Sutton Hoo shield. It's round so you can guess what the other half looks like!

http://www.regia.org/images/wargear/ImageI77.jpg
Another finely decorated masked helm, a possibility for Gesithas or family members.

http://www.regia.org/images/wargear/ImageI3.jpg
The Coppergate Helm, a 7th century Northumbrian piece, good of hearthwerod or gesithas.

http://albion-swords.com/images/armo...osaxonhelm.jpg
A plain iron spangenhelm of a type common in the Dark Ages.

http://manningimperial.com/catalogue/230main.jpg
The Pioneer Helm, another nice fairly plain Saxon helm, with the boar crest so often mentioned in Beowulf.

http://www.regia.org/images/wargear/...axonSwords.jpg
Some nice plain early Saxon swords such as might be carried by Duguth or an Eorl's Hearthwerod.

http://www.ancientedge.com/images_products/183_big.jpg
A beautifully decorated Saxon sword, good for family members, captains, gesithas, officers and so on.

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid5/teach...es/0000/21.JPG
The decorated pommel of the Sutton Hoo sword, giving an idea of the richness of noble wargear.

http://www.regia.org/images/linewargear/Seaxes.gif
A selection of seaxes. The ones carried as weapon would look like these but be about 2 feet long and used for hacking and stabbing.

http://www.darksword-armory.com/images/IM-105.jpg
A nice example of a Seax.

http://www.romeomodels.com/Immagini%...RM%2054-44.jpg
A good picture of a gesitha or hearthwerod thane. Also useful for officers.

http://chain-mail-armour.co.uk/asset...E_FULLSHOT.JPG
A short mail shirt that might be worn by less wealthy nobles.

http://www.saxonviolence.co.uk/photos/SplintfattySV.JPG
A form of splint armour that would be used only by the wealthiest (family members). Made to cover the lower legs as well.

http://www.ancientworlds.net/aworlds...038719_000.jpg
A cniht

http://www.regia.org/images/combat/War13.jpg

http://www.eventplan.co.uk/photos/Co...ge%20loRes.jpg
A warrior in an edged tunic.

http://www.hz-forum.de/portal/a_seit...Anglo-Sax2.jpg
A chieftain or gesith

http://www.lilliputmodel.com/galeria/garro/garro8_1.jpg
A thegn, a good figure for an officer or man of a hearthwerod.

http://www.heorot.dk/burnett-mess-e.jpg
Cniht

http://www.regia.org/images/combat/War21.jpg
A warband of duguth with their thegn

http://www.travelpublishing.co.uk/co...uf0047.tif.JPG
A family of ceorls

http://www.chen-la.com/gallery/gorobey001/sax01.jpg
A ceorl with seax and shield.

That should do for now. I'll scan in some Osprey stuff as well if that's OK, over the next few days.

Agraes asked me to write a couple of unit descrptions for a couple of the Briton units, these are works in progress:

'Marca Llydaw'

The Britons in Brittany, or Llydaw as it was also known, were famed horsemen and recruited powerful cavalry that were pivotal in the numerous Breton victories over the Franks. The warriors of Llydaw were known for their distinctive black shields and their cavalry for their destructive hit and run javelin attacks. The Llydaw cavalry wore white cloaks and equipped their famous black round shield as well as javelins and a sword, unfortunately for any budding emporer they could only be recruited in Brittany, meaning they must be conquered and subdued before joining any foreign nation's army, a tough task indeed.

'Aeson Llydaw'

The Brythonic nations were renowned for the ferocity and skill of their warriors, and the British exiles in Brittany, or Lldaw as it was also known, were no exception. Breton use of a combination of mobile cavalry and powerful infantry, such as the Aeson Llydaw, provided them with numerous victories over enemies like the Franks. Like their hore riding counterparts they equipped round black sheilds and a variety of weapons, and like them could only be recruited in Brittany itself.

'Aulue'

It was a legal obligation for all men over a certain age to fight when required in Briton kingdoms, indeed most, if not all, saw it as a great privilage and were eager for battle. Many kept their own weapons so men could be rapidly form militia units (or Aulue) when their kingdom needed their service. They often fought surprisingly well, but were quick to turn tail and run if things were going badly. Briton militia units were neither well nor badly equipped and could hold their own in a fight, but a wise commander will note their limitations and not commit them against heavily armed elite troops.

Quote:

---

Thinking about it for a bit, I think that the best way to deal with the Saxon, Angles and others given the early start date would be to include the homelands on the map – northern Germany, Denmark, and southern Scandinavia. With a fair number of boats at the start, they could harass the Britons before assembling enough troops to make a landing. You’ll just have to make British lands more prosperous to motivate the Saxons to invade!

---

I have also think about that. Thought it will be a nice solution, there is two majors problems to deal with :
- To include those regions, we will have to extend the map eastward and so we need to include others factions like the Frisons, the Burgondes, the Alamans and others, but we don't have enought factions slots. Maybe we can put 'desert regions' to keep separate the Franks and the Saxons.
- The differents germanic tribes maybe rather like fight each other and not go to Britain. I hope a better IA for BI...

Anyway, nice work Spongly and Thrashaholic, I will update the unit list a bit latter.

I have updated the unit list with the last changes.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...0&postcount=86

I'm am also thinking with Spongly to add some new pictish units,
- An axeman armed with a two-handed axe (attested slightly by the (possibly fake) carving of the Rhynie man.).
- One or two champions units. Maybe a nude warrior armed with sword + shield ? There is no real evidence for the VIth century and later Picts to fight nudes (except interpretations of some drawings on the stones, and by quoting Gildas) but maybe their champions can fight naked ? With a lot of tattooes, to frighten ennemies.
- Bowmen (kept to a small unit size and used more as skirmishers than all out battlefield archers) and/or slingers
- Another cavalry unit with axe or sword
- A basic spearman (a southern version of the "northern warrior").

Some interesting screenshots from the BI demo. I think it is going to be good (thought I can play it until I get my new PC), with intereting models but we will need to reskin a lot of units.

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo59.jpg
Sarmatians auxiliaries : maybe useful for one of our britons cavalry, thought i dont like their helm and armor.

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo58.jpg
Coastal levies : maybe useful for our ardu (militia).

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo57.jpg
Bowmen.

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo56.jpg
Warlords and general : the warlords looks a bit strange, with their lorica segmantata... the general is quite interesting, thought it can look better.

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo55.jpg
Monks : I dont plan to put units like monks or priests on the battlefield.

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo54.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo43.jpg
Those saxons swordmen sucks...

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo44.jpg
The saxon cavalry looks like normans knights of the XIth century...

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/bi-demo42.jpg
This warlord looks not so bad for a northern briton or pictish general (with good reskinning).

https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8980/img236mh.jpg
Bucellarri.

https://img227.imageshack.us/img227/750/29014cn.jpg
https://img118.imageshack.us/img118/664/img192bi.jpg
Saxons in schiltron formation.

https://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7610/img227ea.jpg
Good thought need some reskinning and another helm.

https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2088/img205ub.jpg
Saxons hunters : interesting for our Geburs.

https://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4011/img110nw.jpg
Interesting for Briton infantry.

https://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6748/img175mx.jpg

Also a list of interestings units in BI :
Francisca_Heerbann
Saxon_Hearth_Troops
Celtic_Crossbowmen
Celtic_Kerns
Saxon_Hunters
Celtic_Slingers
Golden_Band
Hounds_of_Culann
Noble_Cavalry_Alamanni
Frankish_Paladins
Cavalry_Alemanni
Noble_Warriors_Frank
Chosen_Archer_Alemanni
Night_Raiders_Alemanni
Saxon_Mounted_Nobles
Noble_Clansmen_Celt
Burgundian_Lancer
Frankish_Raiders
Saxon_Sea_Raiders
Scotti_Chariots
Druids
Alemanni_Warhounds
Celtish_Wolfhounds
Alemanni_Onager
Frankish_Ballistae
Chosen_Warlord_Alemanni
Frankish_Paladin_Bodyguard
Saxon_Warlord
Spear_Warband_Alemanni
Hillmen
Mountain_Men
Levy_Spearmen_Frank
Gothic_Warriors
Celtic_Spearmen
Goth_Raiders
Sarmatian_Armoured_Archers
Sarmatian_Noble_Cavalry
Alan_Noble_Cavalry
Steppe_Lancers
Gothic_Lancer
Gothic_Warrior_Nobles
Alan_Horse_Archers
Gallowglass
Saxon_Keels
Axe_Heerbann
Romano_British_Monks
Graal_Knights
British_Legionaries
Coastal_Levies
Imperial_German_Bodyguard
Imperial_Household_Bodyguard
Sword_Heerbann
Carriage_Ballistae
Praeventores
Roman_Priest
Equites_Sagittarii
Hippo_Toxotai
Foederati_Cavalry
Equites_Auxilia
Sarmatian_Auxilia
Chosen_Axemen_Alemanni
Scholae_Palatinae
Equites_Catafractarii
Equites_Clibinarii
Auxilia_Palatinii
Bucellarii
Plumbatarii
Foederati_Infantry
Comitatenses
Comitatenses_First_Cohort
Legio_Lanciarii
Limitanei
Western_Archer
Clibinarii_Immortals
Clibinarii
Cataphracts
Mountain_Slinger
Arian_Priests
Mounted_Arian_Priests
Gothic_Horse_Archers
Western_Peasant_Alemanni
Western_Peasant_Frank
Western_Peasant_Saxon
Western_Peasant_Celt
Noble_Warriors_Frank
Celtic_Warlord
Herdsmen_Sarmatian
Peasant_Vandal
Runaway_Slave_Spearmen
Goth_Raiders
Sarmatian_Noble_Cavalry
Alan_Noble_Cavalry
Sarmatian_Warlords
Goth_Warlords
Western_Peasant
Roman_Onagers
Roman_Ballistae
Romano_British_Warlords
Generic_Rebel_General
Barb_Rebel_General
Amazon_Chariots
Merc_Herdsmen
Merc_Foederati_Infantry
Merc_Veteranii
Merc_Gallowglass
Merc_Kerns
Merc_Graal_Knights
Merc_Alan_Noble_Cavalry
Merc_Sarmatian_Auxilia
Merc_Foederati_Cavalry
Merc_Hippo_Toxotai
Merc_Equites_Veteranii
Merc_Onagers
Merc_Ballistae
Barb_Horde_Peasants
Hun_Horde_Spearmen
Hunnic_Archers
Merc_Bucellarii
Merc_Alan_Horse_Archers
Barb_Horde_Raider
Barb_Horde_Chosen_Swordsmen
Hun_Horde_Chosen_Warriors
Merc_Hounds_of_Culann
Merc_Golden_Band
Barb_Horde_Spearmen
Barb_Horde_Hunter
Roman_Heavy_Onager
Merc_Vandal_Raiders
Merc_Wolfhounds
Roman_Repeating_Ballistae
Roman_Scorpion

Now we have to see all models...

I've done some some Briton unit descriptions:

'Marca Dumonya'

The wealth, fertile soil and landscape of Dumnonia (modernday Devon, South West England) allowed the locals to breed horses that weren't just beasts of burden; they bred powerful warhorses and became renowned for their horsemanship in the field of battle. Dumnonia is supposedly the setting for Camelot and their cavalry no doubt inspiring the legends of Arthur and his knights (some even claim that Arthur was a Dumnonian warlord). The Marca Dumonyna wore chain mail and red cloaks and carried a spear, round shield and spangelhelm; they can only be recruited in Dumnonia.

'Fwnmilwre'

The sling is one of the oldest and simplest weapons there is and was a favourite of the pre-Roman Britons. In the times of Arthur the bow was becoming more popular, but due to the simplicity of its construction and use, and the huge availability of ammunition, the sling was still widely used. In many ways a sling could out perform a bow and commanders would be foolish to ingore their usefullness on the battlefield. Other than their slings, the fwnmilwre (slingers) were lightly armed and would not last long in close combat.

How much units the mod will have ?

At this time we have :
BRITONS (11 factions) :
20 'standart' units + 5 'unique/AoR' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign + 1 mounted enseign

IRISH (3 factions) :
12 'standart' units + 5 'unique/AoR' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign

PICTS (1 faction) :
7 'standart' units + 1 'AoR' unit
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign

ANGLO-SAXONS (3 factions) :
10 'standart' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign

FRANKS (1 faction) :
6 'standart' units
+ 1 general + 1 captain + 1 officer + 1 enseign

WISIGOTHS (1 faction) :
not done yet

MERC/REBELS :
5 units

TOTAL : At least 92 differents skins, and if we choose to make differents skins per faction 336 skins.

Lot of work for ours skinners/modelers ! (of course if we will find one).

Is anyone here good on ancient British Languages, cos i looked everywhere and i couldnt find what they called the Manx, the Isle of man is Ynys Manau so manx spearmen might be "word for spearmen" Manau.

p.s i dont know the Welsh word for Spearmen

A good mercenary or potentially recruitable unit for the Saxons might be "horswealas" by the way, if they're too lacking in cavalry. Basically, they're Welsh Horsemen recruited to fight for the Saxons. They had a higher Wergild than other Welshman living on Saxon land.

Rherel Manau literally Heavy Manx Spearmen
The Isle of Man is a tiny Island that lies in a Strategic position in the middle of the Irish Sea, therefore All manner of peoples look at it with hunger. This could be seen as a downfall or a reason to flee yet Mannanan and his heirs re-worked the army, producing armoured spearmen to fend off the raiders that come from Ireland, Rheged and and Gwynedd.
These men are perfectly equipped to fight in the hills of Mann. Disciplined, well armoured yet agile, the Manx Spearmen make a living out of fighting for their existence. They are recruited from the nobles or families with enought money to buy the Chainmail and heavy spears they take into battle.

Still need to find another unique unit for the Manau and Galwyddel faction, any ideas?

Do you want me to write some faction descriptions?

Gaels at this time still used chariots sometimes, and also used longswords with two-handed grips sometimes.

I have updated the unit list with those suggestions.

Spongly, can you make the descriptions for your horswhealas and the Saxon battle hounds (if they are not too fanzy), and our new pictish units ? Ranika may help to find pictish names (or gaelic if they lack). Eventually you can try to find others ideas for unique/AoR units for the Picts and the Saxons.

Ian, I think we have to wait to make the descriptions till BI is out, because as I have read in the FAQ we will have to use the BI campaign to have the new features available (like religions or loyalty), so I don't know if we will keep all of our factions (but it looks like so).
A Galwyddel axeman will be a fine idea, maybe you can ask Ranika about it.

We have to find differents uniques/AoR units for : Gwent, Rheged, Ebrauc, Powys, Dyfed, Elmet, Gododdin and Strathclyde (maybe others for Penines, Ceredigion, ...).

We need ours first skins !

Ian, you are the one who know the most people on the org, can you ask your friends if they can help us in modeling/skinning ? And eventually recruiting on the forums or PMing skinners ?

New Pictish units (more complete descriptions will come)

Saiogdaoer (bowmen)
Those will be elite skirmisher in a small unit.

Gairlom (spearmen)
'Those who carry spears'
A basic spearmen unit.

Cingalom (slingers)
The sling is an universal weapon, Picts should use it.

Thomordaoer (Two handed axemen)
An axeman armed with a two-handed axe (attested slightly by the (possibly fake) carving of the Rhynie man.).

Marchan Tho
Horsemen armed with axes.

Aumue Boai
('Naked Warriors', this is their name according Saint Columba)
Those warriors will fight naked, with sword and shield. They will be very fast, with a strong attack and a strong charge and like others picts infantry units can hide everywhere.

Gai Aurmahr ('Spear Masters')
Those warrriors will only fight with a spear and no armor.

EDIT : Ranika helped me with some names ~D

Are we going to do this for Vanilla Rome aswell as BI, we might attract more members if we are doing it for vanilla first, seeing as it'll take some time for people to get BI
BTW are you PMing skinners? I thought i heard you say that, good idea! RTW King from Brittania:Romanum Incursio might help, as he's a AMC brother....pm him, cos he can skin and is quite good at it

Quote:

---

Are we going to do this for Vanilla Rome aswell as BI, we might attract more members if we are doing it for vanilla first, seeing as it'll take some time for people to get BI

---

I don't think so, because BI provides us a huge number of interesting features and new models that will make our work easier. The mod will be out one or two months after BI in the better case I think, so people will have enought time to buy it. For the skinners and modelers they don't need BI to work first (thought they may have some difficulties to transfere their work from vanilla to BI).

Quote:

---

BTW are you PMing skinners? I thought i heard you say that, good idea! RTW King from Brittania:Romanum Incursio might help, as he's a AMC brother....pm him, cos he can skin and is quite good at it

---

I will do it ! Maybe this evening ~:)

Ian, if you want you can begin to work on the map.
http://img162.echo.cx/img162/3163/map49oj.jpg
This is for the region featured. We need a very good scale and details, showing rivers, mountains, etc... Try our best.
If BI allow to have more than 20 factions, the map will be extended southward and eastward, to have the Alamans, the Frisons, the Burgondes, the whole Aquitaine and maybe the Saxony and Jutland. But we will do it latter if possible only !

Ok i'll do the map...but remember this is my first try, so it might not be as good as you hope :)

Well, try your best and take your time ! Maybe anoter modder will help you.

Some suggestions for AoR/unique units for the Britons :
- Gwent : maybe christian fanatics. There was a lot of monasteries in this area.
- Dyfed : a Brytho-Gael elite soldier.
- Powys : elite archers.
- Ebrauc : an elite soldier with good romans weapons.
- Elmet : ?
- Rheged : a mountain warrior, maybe mounted
- Gododdin : special cavalry, or brytho-pict unit
- Galwyddel : axemen maybe
- Strathclyde : a kind of pirat ?

What do you think of them ?

only browsed through the thread, but for the non-saxon areas, the dark ages in mainland Britain was known as the age of saints. Look forward to the mod.

Also wanted to say some good research is being done here, I'm an archaeology student at one of the Tribal/Roman civitas towns and live in the area so will look forward to seeing a good map of the area!!
MORIDVNVM [DEMETARVM] (Carmarthen, Dyfed), so its of great interest.

Hi Dragoon, and welcome to the .org!
Perhaps you could help us with a problem I'm having with research, could you possibly find out anything you can about galwyddel (galloway) specifically the armies as i need to know what AoR unit they will be getting.
thanks

Right

FACTION LIST
Playables
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia
- Rheged
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel
- Gwent & Glywysing
- Dyfed

IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada

PICTS
- Picts (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)

GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Juts (Pagans)
- Bretwalda (Pagan)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)

As you can see i got rid off the Wisigoths, at the moment i need to have a Senate/three factions thing so i went with that...For cultures i think we should do this....

Saxon (Roman)
Angles (Julii)
Saxons (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)

Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Ebrauc (Macedon)
Manau and Galwyddel (Greece)
Elmet (Thrace)

Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)

Southern British (Eastern)
Dumnonia (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)

Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (British)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Germania)
Picts (Scythia)
Strathclyde (dacia)

Middle Britons and Brittany (Carthaginian)
Gwent (Carthage)
Dyfed (Numidia)
Llydaw (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)

hopefully thats alright, what do you think?

Hi!
First pics from the Camp Map are in....
Not finished yet but heres the overall layout of the map...
https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6096/image23xs.th.jpg
and here's Wales with my first go at making mountains
https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/6802/image31ad.th.jpg
Please let me know what you think....and give me tips as to what i should do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ian_of_smeg16

Hi Dragoon, and welcome to the .org!
Perhaps you could help us with a problem I'm having with research, could you possibly find out anything you can about galwyddel (galloway) specifically the armies as i need to know what AoR unit they will be getting.
thanks

---

I can see what I can find, but I won't have access to my univerity library for another couple of weeks ( disgustingly long summer holidays ).

I will have a look around the net in the mean time.

http://www.tartans.com/articles/antoninewall.html

This site gives a description of the antonine wall ( north of Hadriens ).
The Scots/Picts/Irish it says learnt the value of Plunder...this could imply that later periods of Scottish based troops would have like a mercenary look to them, incoperating elements of roman armour.

Perhaps they could have a Romano-British/Scandanavian/Saxon look.

This is conjecture for now....but i'll keep digging.

@Ian

Quote:

---

As you can see i got rid off the Wisigoths, at the moment i need to have a Senate/three factions thing so i went with that...For cultures i think we should do this....
Saxon (Roman)
Angles (Julii)
Saxons (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)

Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Ebrauc (Macedon)
Manau and Galwyddel (Greece)
Elmet (Thrace)

Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)

Southern British (Eastern)
Dumnonia (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)

Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (British)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Germania)
Picts (Scythia)
Strathclyde (dacia)

Middle Britons and Brittany (Carthaginian)
Gwent (Carthage)
Dyfed (Numidia)
Llydaw (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)

---

Well, I thought we will use the BI campaign, not the vanilla one, except if there is a way to include all of the news features into this one. As I have read there will be factions slots remaining in the BI campaign, and eventually the possibility to put more that 20 factions... we will see it later !

We talk a lot about the Wisigoths... anyway there will be wisigoths troops as rebels so no real matter.
Your bretwalda idea is a good one, but it may be a bit to hard to code at the begin. We will see if we kept it if we use vanilla campaign.
You have also add Llydaw as a playable faction. What I have think firstly was to share Brittany between Domnonia, Dyfed, rebels, maybe Gwent, because it will put another challenge to those factions.
Maybe we will finally keep a breton faction, or 3 (if possible : Kernow, Domnonée and Bro-Erec) or put them as emerging factions...

For the map, can't you up the scale to the max you can ? It will need a lot of work then, but it will be very fine.
The borders are ok ~;)
For the mountains, is it the height shown there ? Wales have a lot of provinces so we need passages ~D
If you have some satellites photos to help it will be very fine !
Anyway, continue this way, I don't know lot of things about mapping :book:

@Dragoon : nice to see another historian with us !
About the Dal Riadans and the others Gaëls, Ranika have done a lot with them, and I got a good idea of them after seeing some skins of Age of Vikings and Fanatics (they got the same units as us for the Gaëls).
For the Picts, as shown on their stones wich much carvings, they will fight unarmoured, except for their elite who will wear chain/scale mail and helmets ~:cheers:

I have some information about certain tribes of North Britain.

Firstly, Strathclyde was a Brythonic/British Kingdom, not a Goidelic/Gaelic one.
Secondly, next to nothing is known of the Picts, however, they were not thought to be Gaels but they may have been brythonic. There is evidence of Saxon migration into Pictish lands from the continent, so perhaps they may also be slightly saxon in their ways. We don't know much about their language, but it is thought also to be a British language by many.

Quote:

---

Firstly, Strathclyde was a Brythonic/British Kingdom, not a Goidelic/Gaelic one.

---

Ok about it, I guess that Ian put them with the Gaels only to put them with a culture !
It might be an option to put some saxon mercs in a part of Scotland ~D .

Some news about AoR units, with Ian's help and Ranika comments :

- Gwent : maybe christian fanatics. There was a lot of monasteries in this area. -> Christian fanatics would likely appear anywhere where Christians in the region felt threatened by outsiders

- Dyfed : a Brytho-Gael elite soldier -> this works fine; I'd recommend the Galwyddel Ymyll from St. Columba's 'Deithronnbagh', where he described some Welsh soldiers; they carried a Gaelic axe and shield, and wore bronze scale armor, but dressed like Cymrians (Welshmen); mind you 'Galwyddel' just means 'Gaelic'; the region of 'Galwyddel' was so called for the large Gaelic speaking population

- Powys : elite archers - this seems alright

- Ebrauc : an elite soldier with good romans weapons -> such soldiers were present in most of Romanized Britain as a type of quasi-elite

- Rheged : a mountain warrior, maybe mounted

- Gododdin : special cavalry, or brytho-pict unit -> Gododdin had famous longspearmen called 'Aumabellu'; perhaps that'd work, but I know little of the details

- Galwyddel : axemen maybe -> nobles from this region used two-handed wood axes sometimes, though they'd be decorated a bit

- Strathclyde : a kind of pirate? -> a swordsmen who used a longsword in two-hands would be good here; not greatswordsmen, but Strathclyders sometimes used swords with elongated grips

So I will add some of them tommorow.

Yeah, Agreas the reason i put in the Bretwalda Idea is because i need to edit the Descr_strat file while doing the map, therefore the Senate thing is hardcoded.
@Malcolm Iput the Strathclyde factin in the Gaels + Picts culture because i needed to find a culture for it, but i am in the process of finding out how to change a factions culture, so it won't be a problem....I think sombody in the Scriptorium asked about changing culture so I'll look in there

Hello ATW Team. I was asked if I could do some skins for this mod, but I'm kind of busy just now but I'll try and do a couple. Theres a Pict Militia unit I made, theres a picture of it in the Britannia: Romanorum Incursio Skins thread. It might be suitable for ATW. That units still in development though.

Well, good news at all !

I will receive my new PC next week, then I will be able to scan images and I will create a ftp server to put our work online.

Thrashaholic have lot of work to do yet, so maybe someone can complete the descriptions of the following units ?


Galwyddel Ymyll
Need to control Dyfed.
The Galwyddel Ymyll from St. Columba's 'Deithronnbagh', where he described some Welsh soldiers; they carried a Gaelic axe and shield, and wore bronze scale armor, but dressed like Cymrians (Welshmen); mind you 'Galwyddel' just means 'Gaelic'; the region of 'Galwyddel' was so called for the large Gaelic speaking population

Saethwre Powys
Need to control Powys.
Composite bow, sword, coat, leather scale armor.

Rhyfelwyr Rheged
Need to control South or North Rheged.
A mountain warrior.
Sword, round shield, chain mail, throwing javelines.

Aumabellu
Need to control Gododdin.
Gododdin had famous longspearmen called 'Aumabellu'
Long spear, round shield, scale mail, coat.

Galwyddel nobles axemen*
Need to control Galwyddel.
Nobles from this region used two-handed wood axes sometimes, though they'd be decorated a bit.
Two-handed wood axes, chain mail, helmet.

Strathclyder Swordsmen*
Strathclyders who used a longsword in two-hands would be good here; not greatswordsmen, but Strathclyders sometimes used swords with elongated grips.
Sword, round shield on the back, leather cuirass, spangelhelm.

Having a more careful look at the factions, I guess it will be better (if we use vanilla factions) to do with :

Saxon (Roman)
Saxons (Julii)
Angles (Scipii)
Jutes (Brutii)
Bretwalda (Senate)

Northern Briton (Greek)
Rheged (Seleucid)
Gododdin (Macedon)
Ebrauc (Greece)
Strathclyde (Thrace)

Frankish (Egyptian)
Franks (Egypt)

Middle Britons (Eastern)
Elmet (Parthia)
Gwynedd (Armenia)
Powys (Pontus)

Gaels and Picts (Barbarian)
Ui Neill (Germania)
Mumainha (Gauls)
Dal Riada (Britons)
Picts (Dacia)
Manau and Galwyddel (Scythia)

Southern Britons (Carthaginian)
Domnonia (Carthage)
Gwent (Numidia)
Dyfed (Spain, need to find out how to change a factions culture)

Ok that sounds better, BTW i need info on the provinces of Brittany and the rest of France, any ideas Agreas?

I think you have all you need for Britain and Ireland there : https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=43 ~;)
Maybe you will only need to know the location on some towns.

I have included in the list the provinces of Gaul occuped by the Britons.
GAUL, Britons :
- Kernyw - Carahès (Carhaix) -> Dyfed province (the first rulers of Kernyw were of Gwent and Dyfed origin)
- Poher - Castel Conomore -> Domnoniuan province
- Domnonée - Alet -> Domnoniuan province
- Bro-Erec - Aula Regia (Auray) -> Gwent province
- Darioritum - Darioritum (Vannes) -> rebel province (until Waroch of Bro-Erec conquest it in the late VIth century, or early VIIth, I cant remember ~D ).

A little map of Brittany that I have just made with paint ~D

https://img303.imageshack.us/img303/...tany0wb.th.png

I have put differents files on a ftp server. This ftp will allow us to upload images, screenshots, files, tga... to work on the mod and to share this work much easily.

For this time I'm uploading images for our skinners to work, concept arts and others. They are in the 'art' section.

You will need a ftp client to join it (like SmartFTP or other) :

Adress : ftp.membres.lycos.fr
Login : subliminaltpe
Pass : please PM or MSN me if you want it ~D

I have found some very nice images at DBA online :

http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1182_face.jpg

Britons.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_82_figure_1.htm

Picts.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_67_figure_1.htm

Saxons.
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_75a_figure_1.htm
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_75b_figure_1.htm

Welsh :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_92_figure_1.htm

Late Romans (West) :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_77a_figure_1.htm

Late Wisigoths :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_80_figure_1.htm

Patrician Romans :
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_81_figure_1.htm

DBAs Irish and Scots never look appropriate; they tend to make them look like Gauls or early Britons, which is badly inaccurate, or they exaggerate things like the size of levies'/light horsemen's cloaks (giving them full-length cloaks when they should be much much shorter), and depict them with beards (which wasn't very popular at all until the viking invasions, and even then only in a few regions).

I take note of that and I edit my previous post ~:)

The most appropriate depiction DBA has of a Gaelic soldier is probably the 'warband', but the problem there is that average Gaelic soldiers in this period (and most others) mostly used axes, not swords; he looks more like lower aristocracy, and the length of his cloak is far too great for him to be a 'warband', and the beard was mentioned. The 'psiloi' they give them are all wrong; they look like Britons, and not at all Gaelic (which would look like the 'warband', but with trousers as well, a slightly shorter shirt, and a much much shorter cloak, and a sling and knife, or spears and javelins). Additionally, Gaels in this period need neck torcs (Celtic units in EB have neck torcs; they can be seen in previews and the like)

I have edited the unit list after adding some images (for Britons, Picts, Franks and Saxons).

I just borrowed "The Age of Arthur A History of the British Isles from 350 to 650 AD" its about 650 pages of research archeology and information on the post roman briton world including all the areas in your mod if you wan i can start posting information from the book if it would be helpful

I planned to buy this book but I need to command it on the net, so eventually if you have already it and if you want to work with us, you are welcome ! ~D

It's a useful book for reference, but most historians consider his conclusions to be deeply dubious- the author has a tendency to stretch paper thin evidence to breaking point in attempting to reconstruct post Roman Britain.

I borrowed it from the library, but lucky my library allows you to keep things indefinetly as long as you call every 2 weeks to tell them you want to take it out another 2 weeks. Well whats needed most? factions, faction borders for 481 AD, names, rulers, units types buildings and fortifications. Im gonan start on faction borders if you dont mind, cause this is where the author mentions alot of archeology, grave goods ect.... So it should be quite accurate. Ill get some research out later today.

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Well whats needed most? factions, faction borders for 481 AD, names, rulers, units types buildings and fortifications.

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You can give us :
- faction descriptions and general history to be included in the mod.
- faction borders will help to make the map.
- ok for units type if you have, this will maybe help adding new units or complete the descriptions of the existing ones.
- for buildings, I think we will work later on it, thought you can search after it.
- for the differents rulers, it is not a priority at the moment.

I have found some Frankish stuff on the web :

https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/...lderic16tg.jpg

https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/...ilderic0cb.jpg
Childeric, the father of Clovis.

https://img399.imageshack.us/img399/...helmet38hm.gif

https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/...helmet23hf.jpg
Frankish helmets.

https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/...nksword6al.gif
Sword pommel and piece of scabbard from the Childeric' grave.

https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/...roboots9lo.jpg
Merovingian boots from the VIIth century.

I update also the unit list with more Frankish units.

Mounted Antrustions (King’s Warband)
For ages, the power of the Franks tribes relied on infantry. But when they arrived in Gaul, they had to face the powerful cavalry of the Wisigoths, and of the Alemani. Then the Frankish elite begun to learn how to fight on horseback, to became centuries later the powerful frankish knights.

Gallic light cavalry
Frankish army is not only made of Frankish warriors. They can also raise some Gallo-Romans soldiers, such as those horsemen.
Few Franks are good riders, so those Gallic are a good complement to their army.

Infantry :

Antrustions
The Antrustions are the elite warriors of the Franks, and the bodyguards of the kings and princes.
Those footmen are raised and equipped from the pockets of the powerful nobles of the Franks.
After they captured Soissons in 495 the Franks had access to Roman arms factories and could equip their men better than most Germans with chainmail or scale armor, shields, spears, helms and throwing axes.
Sturdy heavy infantry.

Foederati
A lot of rankish warriors have served in the Roman army and are equipped in a slightly Roman style with chainmail, angons, helms, swords and shields. Very good attackers who throw their angons before charging.

Frankish Warriors
Tribal warriors, unarmoured but armed with shields, spears and throwing axes. A fierce barbarian levy, not organised or with great morale, but fairly nasty on the offensive.

Miles
'Miles' means 'soldiers' in latin. Those warriors are raised from the gallo-romans cities and equipped in the roman way with spear, helm and shield.

Frankish champions
Among the ranks of the frankish troops, some warriors are from the best, experts in the way of war, and of the usage of the franscica.
Chainmail, shield, franscica, coat.

Skirmishers :

Frankish Freemen
The poorest tribesmen have very few weapons and no armor. They throw javelines and then can fight with their seax, but their poor moral keep them as a skirmishing role.

Frankish archers
Thought it wasn't the weapon of the nobility, the usage of the bow is attested by his presence in a lot of frankish graves.
Frankish archers use the powerful hunnic bow, and can be very deadly but vulnerable in melee.

Good news !

I have just received my new PC, and I will install it this evening, so then I can work harder on the mod ~:)

Hi Guys,
Are we still making this for BI?
If so i see no point in me working on the map as for all i know the files could completely change in BI, i leave it up to you...

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i know the files could completely change in BI, i leave it up to you...

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As I have read in the BI FAQ, files will not change, but it still a risk that we can't use the same, thought I think there is no problem for the tga. Lot of mods team who begun work on vanilla have planned to work on BI and have always done their map, so... you can wait if you want, but you can go, it is as you wish ~D

Got a lot of problems with RTW Graphic...

But I have updated the unit list with more images, and scanned some plates from Osprey.

Here 'Pictish Warriors' :

http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltp...t_shiltron.jpg
Picts versus Strathclyders Britons, maybe the battle shown on the Aberlamno stone.

http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltp...t_warriors.jpg
Pict Mormaer and Pict pikeman.

http://membres.lycos.fr/subliminaltp...t_weaponry.jpg
Pictish weaponry.

Hey, We could use the banner the Strathclyders are holding as a banner for strathclyde, Green dragon on a white field

This is a PM bdh send me on TWC :

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i don't know if you've heard or not, but i've been working on a map for rtr and imperia romana that is 5x the size of the current rtw map, but due to a small error the map became 25 times the size of the rtw map.
if you like, i could give you the map_heights.tga part of the map that contains britain. it is vairly complete and rather nice. i could even modify it somewhat so that the mountains stand out more (in the original they were downsized to be in comparison with other larger mountains)
from there you could do all the other parts of the map based on that fairly quickly

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...82&page=4&pp=20
heres a pic if you would like to see
the main map is at the bottom of the thread.
if you need britain bigger, i have lots of data i can use to remake a bigger one fairly quickly

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So Ian, I guess he will make a very good map for the scale and the heights, then all you will have to do is to add the provinces and such things, the task will be much easier for you !

yes, tell him yes!!!!

I have done a better province map, but not included irish and gallic provinces yet.

https://img388.imageshack.us/img388/4999/map033ee.jpg

Will Ireland be divided up further? Ulster needs to be cut up to have Dalriatta/Orgallia (the eastern coast of Ulster, controlled by Dal Riada), with the rest being appropriately divided and under the control of the Ui Neill; at least 2 provinces, with Ard Macha (Armagh) and Emain Macha (Navan). Mide could just be one province maybe, but should be a bit larger, and have Teamhaidh (not Tara or Teamhair; those names weren't used yet). The Mumainha only controlled Munster, but it was divided in three/four regions; Tuadmumu (Thomond/northern Munster), Urmumu (southern Munster), Desmumu (eastern Munster), and Ogaillon ('Galway'). Laigin (Leinster) was divided in two to three regions depending on the time (Orriagh in the northwest, Laigin in the south, and Roirragh/Bregan in the northeast). Connacht was divided into a few regions as well, Ard Mammo (Mayo), Amroi (southern Connacht), Inista (the islands), and Ogaillon ('Galway'; sometimes, actually more often under control of Connacht).

Yes, I plan to PM you about it for the location of the differents irish provinces, this is the curent list we have :

IRELAND :
- Ulaidh – Raithmor
- Oirgaillia – Ard Macha (Armagh)
- Ui Neillia – Cenell Neill
- Cenell Riada - ?
- Laigin - Dun Ailinne
- Connaght – Cruachu
- Tuad - Killardan
- Midhe - Teamhaidh
- Desmumu - Caiseal
- Eoghanaght – Orliglin
- Inisharanna - Inishmhor

It seems that you have more provinces in your previous message, or the more provinces we had, the better it is ! For the Britons, I have add some provinces/kingdoms that don't exist at the start date (like Bro-Erec, Caer-Wenddoleu...) but will help have a lot of provinces.

So can you list all the provinces like this, with their cities, and made a very simple map to show me their location ?

Here a map background :

https://img250.imageshack.us/img250/6057/ireland5hb.jpg

Those are all fine provinces; I'll see about making a rather simple map. Dividing up the larger regions would be nice (considering the size of British provinces); so cutting Connacht in three would be nice. However, on that map, you don't have the isles, so I don't know if you'd intend to use it as a province.