There is no mitigation. I repeat ALL terrorism is evil.
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There is no mitigation. I repeat ALL terrorism is evil.
I feel the same way, it's a bit silly for me to be fearing immigrants since my entire mom's side immigrated here around the 1900s. But they were evil Polish, who didn't know how to observe proper the proper Western way of life, of course. :dizzy2:Quote:
Do you think as an immigrant who is married to an immigrant, who is the son of immigrants, who is the grandchild of immigrants that I am at all intimidated by immigrants?
My dad's side is so confusing, I can't tell heads or tail, but you don't get a English, French and German without immigration.
Oh, Apache, I agree wholeheartedly. :bow:
Time for a proper reply to this bit now .
The only concern I have with the declining cultures is that if we give immigrants the vote, then they can change our culture in fundemental ways.
I dont think the spanish over here would, but the muslims have some very different takes on the world that I dont think real europeans would appreciate being forced on them.
So Panzer you wish to remove citizens rights to vote because of their religion . But of course removing their right to vote wouldn't be enough , you would have to ban them from holding any governmnet job , just in case they had any influence , ban them from teaching as well , ban them from practicing law or medicine , ban them from operating in the financial industry .
You must be thorough in your clampdown !!!!
To make sure they don't slip through the net make sure they all register and stamp all their identification papers with the letter "I" for Islam , I was going to suggest "M" for Muslim but I think we should keep that letter free for when we get round to clamping down on the Mexicans .
Furthermore , to make sure they cannot influence anyone who hasn't asked to see their papers , lets make them sew a nice crescent onto all their clothes so we can easily identify them .
:help:
Gawain ; Since the article is almost identical from the last one you posted on the subject , though of course taken from a right wing ex con this time instead of from a neo-Nazi .
Could you explain something to me , as I cannot really understand this racial purity bull ... What exactly is this WHITE CHRISTIAN RACE you are on about , what shade of skin counts as white ? what Christian counts as a white Christian ? What is your position of Christians who are not white or people who are white who are not Christian ?
Or are you just a ****** ******* ?
Oh my someone needs to drink some ale and forget about his outrage at another's post. Looks like someone is atrolling - does it notQuote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Now someone has gone beyond trolling into something else.Quote:
Gawain ; Since the article is almost identical from the last one you posted on the subject , though of course taken from a right wing ex con this time instead of from a neo-Nazi .
Could you explain something to me , as I cannot really understand this racial purity bull ... What exactly is this WHITE CHRISTIAN RACE you are on about , what shade of skin counts as white ? what Christian counts as a white Christian ? What is your position of Christians who are not white or people who are white who are not Christian ?
Or are you just a ****** ******* ?
Because you misunderstand me. Its not the biological but the ethics of western civilization Im worried about losing. There is a battle going on now between us and radical Muslims who would change the world to resemble the middle east. Now if you see nothing wrong with that and believe that their society is just as good as ours and dont mind it replacing ours then what can I say? I dont care what race you are but I do care what your basic moral codes are and how they may effect me and mine in the future. I dont fancy facing Mecca 5 times a day. Peaceful invasion is the most succesful. Again thats really what brought down Rome.Quote:
Could you explain something to me , as I cannot really understand this racial purity bull
Ohh a holocaust reference. That must have taken a lot of thought for you to come up with. ~:rolleyes:Quote:
So Panzer you wish to remove citizens rights to vote because of their religion . But of course removing their right to vote wouldn't be enough , you would have to ban them from holding any governmnet job , just in case they had any influence , ban them from teaching as well , ban them from practicing law or medicine , ban them from operating in the financial industry .
You must be thorough in your clampdown !!!!
To make sure they don't slip through the net make sure they all register and stamp all their identification papers with the letter "I" for Islam , I was going to suggest "M" for Muslim but I think we should keep that letter free for when we get round to clamping down on the Mexicans .
Furthermore , to make sure they cannot influence anyone who hasn't asked to see their papers , lets make them sew a nice crescent onto all their clothes so we can easily identify them .
Non-assimilated immigrants can pose a threat to a democratic society if they dont share the same values of that society.
It's not going to happen. A couple of generations, once the ties are severed (and it will happen, even if it has to be helped along the way - like in Denmark, although I personally don't think that's too great an idea), and people are pretty well integrated. This terrorism stuff isn't helping, but it will happen.
In Denmark there are very strict controls on people marrying outsiders and then living with them in Denmark - which I can see the reasoning behind (stops arranged marriages etc) but strikes me as an infringement of rights. If I want to marry a foreigner, they should be able to live at home with me.
You know I used to think of myself of a conservative... (hell I voted for Thatcher 3 times) but reading the cons from the USA ...I think I fall into the liberal camp...ohhh the ignomany..... ~:eek:
Actually I even agree to some extent with that statement (surprise, surprise ~:) ). While I do not buy into the fear that "Western Christian culture" will be destroyed by immigrants, we certainly should take care that immigrants show more willingness to integrate into the society they physically became part of (however, I also think that the society they come into should also show the willingness to integrate them).Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJager
I love and enjoy cultural diversity - but cultural diversity should mean that we have various cultures that live together and share their distinctive features (without completely giving up to many) - it should never lead to the development of ghettos and various cultures living in parallel worlds with limited contact, forming sub-societies within a country.
That would indedd be a threat to a democratic society.
the ira is evil, and they are horrible for the acts the commited, but at least the dont want the world to bow before them.
And how exactly do you think that they are going to do this? At the moment they can kill people. They can't all force us to convert to their twisted version is Islam. So terrorists can't 'replace our society'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I know when I came to America and wanted to be a citizen I had to know more US history and civics than most US kids know.I was really impressed.Quote:
Actually I even agree to some extent with that statement (surprise, surprise ). While I do not buy into the fear that "Western Christian culture" will be destroyed by immigrants, we certainly should take care that immigrants show more willingness to integrate into the society they physically became part of (however, I also think that the society they come into should also show the willingness to integrate them).
I love and enjoy cultural diversity - but cultural diversity should mean that we have various cultures that live together and share their distinctive features (without completely giving up to many) - it should never lead to the development of ghettos and various cultures living in parallel worlds with limited contact, forming sub-societies within a country.
That would indedd be a threat to a democratic society.
Is it the same way in Germany and the rest of Europe? If i remember right, i saw on german tv there was a small contraversy over that kind of thing, but I may be wrong.
To my knowledge this is not the case in Germany - but to some extent such a thing might actually be a good idea, especially learning the language should be mandatory as it is not only the key to successful integration but also an indicator of how willing a person is to integrate (and learning a language does not mean that you are going to give up your own culture).Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJager
There has indeed been some controversy in Germany and our conservative oarty, the CDU/CSU invented the term "Leitkultur" to which immigrants should adhere - I do not want to insinuate any motives here, but IMO (and a lot of other people's opinion as well) this term was a very poor choice, as it somehow has a very old-fashioned touch that might evoke some negative connotations (i.e. it provokes associations with a certain period in our history ~;) ) - and as always, a poor choice of words distracts from the actual, and necessary, discussion (typical for Germany).
I do think that learning a language that the country you live in is very important. It is difficult to get a good job when you can't speak the same language that everyone else does, it's just common sense. It is fine if they continue to speak and teach their children their language, but it's just logical to speak the same langauge as everyone else wherever you are living.
I would definitely agree with you on that point. Learning the country's language is vital for integration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
I thought you were an Indonesian muslim with multiple wives. Which is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson
Forcing people to learn English is racist. Just ask La Rasa!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
Este es una pais hispanico, y ustedes, los gringos, necesitan aprender este!!!
One question I've always had for La Rasa, and other "USA is a Latino country" groups... isn't it equally racist for them to not make their website and literature available in Russian, Chinese and Arabic, let alone English...
Redleg Looks like someone is atrolling -
Does it ?
Oh my someone needs to drink some ale
Wrong country , you cannot get decent Ale in this country , but I will be drinking Ale next month , until then I shall stick to the Porter ~:cheers:
Ohh a holocaust reference. That must have taken a lot of thought for you to come up with.
Is it a holocaust reference Panzer , or is it a comparison of what you are proposing by denying citizens of a country their rights based solely on their personal religion ?
Because you misunderstand me. Its not the biological but the ethics of western civilization Im worried about losing. There is a battle going on now between us and radical Muslims who would change the world to resemble the middle east.
Then what is the relevance of declining birth rates Gawain ?
Or for that matter what is the relevance of any of the points (most of which are entirely spurious especially the sewage system and emptying landscape) in the article to radical Muslims ?
Yeah! My pitiful 3 years of very lax high-school Spanish have paid off! I vaguely understand! W00t!Quote:
Originally posted in Spanish
Este es una pais hispanico, y ustedes, los gringos, necesitan aprender este!!!
Ahem. Don, you are right as ever. Not that it'll change much. ~:handball:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Gawain; Rebuttle?...
Or do I admit that I am right?
Being in Florida, there is always a problem with Mexican Immigrants (aliens cought)
There are Mexicans who are legal. It's the illegal ones I'm worried about.
They come to this country, speaking Spanish, and work in the fields all day, then go home with an american dollar in their pockets.
Well, the problem is that they don't become citizens, so they don't speak English , and if they get in trouble, they can't speak for themselves, they also exploit the system by sending their children to schools, and have the tax payers of America send their child through.
So support bill 997, now in the House of Representatives :D
Anyway, the illegal immigrants also have a effect of the votes. They can waltz up to a voting booth in Texas, say "I'm American Citizen" vote for the guy who gives you rights that your not entitled to, such as driving permits, etc. The voting authorities can't do anything about it, and the politicians are exploiting a demographic.
Thats also why I support the volunteers along the Mexican Arizona/New Mexico/ Texas/ California border. If you want to become Americans, ask. Otherwise, go to your leader, tell them to "go to hell", and form your own demographic to influence the vote. Then form your nation into a land of milk and honey, and be content.
I'm not forcing everyone in the world to speak English, I'm simply saying that if you are going to live in a country, then you should at least have basic communication skills sufficient to integrate into the society in a reasonable way. And I'm not saying that you have to know English before you enter the country, just that you should make an effort to learn it at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
contributing to your economy, and presumably paying taxes (if they are not, then you really should be prosecuting them)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
Do you not actually check whether someone is registered to vote before letting them? Becuase if you don't, then you really should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
In Texas, I believe it is against the law to ask if someone is an American citizen. (I may be wrong)
Aliens and outsourcing seem to be the economic problems of America.
Aliens, Indians, and Chinese all work for less. Thus the buisnesses decide to employ them.
Aliens will work for squat, to be a bathroom cleaner, janitor, etc. while the rest of America will work for a certain wage, unions, etc. The influx in southern california (Los Angeles) has created a large group of Mexicans who join gangs (maybe a sterotype) and then they can stay in America, and the police can do little to stop you.
Maybe the Mexicans can be depoted to France, and work for squat, and add to the population!
I'll probably be called racist for "hating mexicans" or being "anti-mexican"
Hey, your opinion.
You're not allowed to ask them if they are a US citizen? It sounds a bit stupid, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
There Texans! All they care about is
a)cattle
B)ranch
c)BBQ
d)hot chicks
e)good old America
Which is what many believe in as well.
Anyway, a election monitor, or whatever at a polling place cannot ask anyone if they are a United States citizen.
Sorry unlike you I have to go to work to feed my face and pay the rent.Quote:
Gawain; Rebuttle?...
Or do I admit that I am right?...
I dont. Hey how many Romans do you know? Once your population drops below a certain level you will dissapear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
=Gawain of Orkeny]And when the last couple has the last kid then what?
What is this the high school debating club? We both know that's neve gonna hapen.
Because of immigration? Go ahead give me a few.Quote:
He didnt say it effected all of Germany .
Well then that's called *cherry-picking*. Anyone with half a brain can just pick 2 or more towns(not cities) and say they have sewage problems in any country of the world.
Well from judging your posts here I must say yours seem to be sadly lacking but thats not Im talking about. My point is you have no understanding of what makes christains tick.Quote:
Obviously your not a christian.
So what? Only are allowed to have family values?
Well thats not how it was when I grew up and thats certainly not what christains are taught. There has never nor will there ever be a theocracy here yet what you say will never happen used to be the norm.Quote:
Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Isn't that the way we have always lived? Seriously. Has there ever been theocracy in the US, because that's the only way what you just described could have been prevented.
The only thing I can deduce from this is that basicly your just a miserable person ~DQuote:
I'm miserable enough with one brother, any more and I would be suicidal. To think of all the money that could have been spent on me instead of him is mind-boggling.
It means were dissappearing. There is a good chance our way of life could dissappear as well. Geez if we were spotted owls you would be all worried about how to save us.Quote:
Then what is the relevance of declining birth rates Gawain ?
You are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
COuld you explain, and inform the general public.
Well first you will have to address what exactly you were refering to about asking for citizenship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
I work in Texas and as part of my job - I interview people, and on the application it states are you a citizen of the United States, if not do you have a legal right to work in the country?
Then when you get a driver license - last time I did anyway - you had to provide a social security number for the driver license. Which while not a direct way to ask and not fool-proof - because there are fraudlent SSN out there - it is an indirect way to ask someone their citizenship. Motor Voter is activitly pursued in Texas - and yes any legal immigrant can get a diver license and sometimes if the clerk is not paying attention they get a voter registration card also.
And finally when I went to vote - you must show your voter registration card - or if it is not in your procession - you must show a valid photo identification.
You can't just use any examples to prove anything. Modern Japan is nothing like the Late Roman Empire. Japan has no immigration, there's never gonna be another group of people taking over so eventually when their population drops enough, they will beomc poor and start rasing it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain
I was raised Christian, but I have grown to hate the whole concept in the last year, and I have become Atheist. It may have been all the radical philosophy I've been readin the past year or it may just have been my personal enlightenment(or a compbination), but I feel great and liberated nontheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain
Umm the article is still wrong. I guess you could believe everything some random person, in this case an ex-con is telling you about the world, but I'm 18 and even I know it's waaay more complicated then anyone can deduce with a bunch of "cherry-picking" examples and poor knowledge of countries economics and cultural identities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain
If every couple only has 1 child there is no way you can survive. Eventually you will have the last man and woman if your lucky because as soon as you run out of 1 gender its over. Sooner or later your going to have to raise the birth rate.Quote:
You can't just use any examples to prove anything. Modern Japan is nothing like the Late Roman Empire. Japan has no immigration, there's never gonna be another group of people taking over so eventually when their population drops enough, they will beomc poor and start rasing it again.
Why. I hate to say it but in that case your giving atheists a bad name. Most here seem to have the same values as the religious peeps here for the most part. But you seem very self centered and callous. Certainly its good to face reality but Im afraid you look at the darkside too much young grasshopper. The darkside is strong.Quote:
I was raised Christian, but I have grown to hate the whole concept in the last year, and I have become Atheist.
No its correct. You can deny were a dissappearing breed all you like. The facts speak differently.Quote:
Umm the article is still wrong. I guess you could believe everything some random person, in this case an ex-con is telling you about the world, but I'm 18 and even I know it's waaay more complicated then anyone can deduce with a bunch of "cherry-picking" examples and poor knowledge of countries economics and cultural identities.
Umm that makes no sense to me. Could you give me reason why they would NOT eventually raise their birth rate again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
LMAO! Then they are not really atheists. Atheism means belief in nothing to do with religion. I'm nihilist to boot, don't expect to agree with me on anything in this manner, I probably won't even consider is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Precisely. My nihilistic nature doesn't allow me to think about others in a way that doesn't affect me. I am confortable with it though, more then Christianity to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I don't believe in Star Wars. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I don't believe in evil either.
I don't deny that we are dissapearing(the white race). I am making an argument as to why the article you posted is wrong in it's evidence, to support the viewpoint you (and I) want to project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Just to clarify: I agree that the white race in crtain continents or parts of continents will eclipse because we have lower birth rates then other nationalities from poorer nations. But it is because they have a low standard of living that their birth rates are high. This is my opinion which I believe to be absolutely correct.
It was you who claimed that they wouldnt go extinct if they only allowed one child per couple not me.Quote:
Umm that makes no sense to me. Could you give me reason why they would NOT eventually raise their birth rate again?
Really. How do you know?Quote:
LMAO! Then they are not really atheists.
No it dosent.Quote:
theism means belief in nothing to do with religion.
Quote:
It means were dissappearing.
And what the hell has that got to do with radical Islam ?
What is it you are on about ? Are you trying to link birth rates to the war on terror now ?
so what is your topic about the preservation of the "white race" whatever you think that is , or radical Islam taking over the world .
Or is everything connected to fundamentalists in your mind .
As for your reply to Byzantines thing about the "sewage problem" in Germany....Because of immigration? .....rubbish , that is just another example of spurious points in the original article , it has nothing to do with immigration , it is (specific to Germany) connected to re-unification , and general rural decline as evident in any modern country . It is internal migration due to changes in work practices .
No, I think Gawain's point was that immigrants don't flush the toilet. foreign heithens. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Nice work Gawain, you've convinced me. ~D
No, I think Gawain's point was that immigrants don't flush the toilet. foreign heithens.
Well since sewage systems don't really develop problems with under capacity , only over capacity , unless of course they are faulty in the first place , it just shows that the author is ....ummmm... full of excrement ~;)
I dont give two craps about the author or the validity of hes sewage claims. Is that the best arguement you can come up with?
I dont give two craps about the author or the validity of hes sewage claims.
Really ? Then why did you bother posting the authors article in the first place ?
And if you don't care about the validity of his claims then can you explain this.....
Ive been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.
So you have been warning about something , use an article to support your views , then say you don't give a damn about the author or the validity of his claims that you have used to support your views.
Howling at the moon indeed ~D ~D ~D
How many times do I have to explain that I post articles to start debates. I dont agree with everything everyone says in these postsa.Quote:
Really ? Then why did you bother posting the authors article in the first place ?
I never said I dont care about the validity of his claims I said I dont care about his claims on the sewage matter.Quote:
And if you don't care about the validity of his claims then can you explain this.....
Read the above. I havent been warning that immigration is causing sewage problems in Europe but that the indigenous population is declining.Quote:
So you have been warning about something , use an article to support your views , then say you don't give a damn about the author or the validity of his claims that you have used to support your views.
Indeed and your proving my point for me. ~DQuote:
Howling at the moon indeed
I never said I dont care about the validity of his claims I said I dont care about his claims on the sewage matter.
Then why don't you post your own views in a clear manner instead of posting dubious claims by an ex-con ?
the indigenous population is declining.
So what ? whats new ? populations change , birth rates fluctuate .
I do after the article.Quote:
Then why don't you post your own views in a clear manner instead of posting dubious claims by an ex-con ?
Nothings new. Again if we were some endangered animal species youd be saying we must be saved.Quote:
So what ? whats new ? populations change , birth rates fluctuate .
Nothings new. Again if we were some endangered animal species youd be saying we must be saved.
Oh so you are saying the white christian race is an endangereds species , but what exactly is this white christian race that you are talking about ?
If the human race were going to go extinct, I'd be worried. But us as a species, aren't going to go extinct for a while (probably).
Its pretty self explanatory isnt it? White Christians..Quote:
Oh so you are saying the white christian race is an endangereds species , but what exactly is this white christian race that you are talking about ?
The argument is over cultural preservation. I happen to believe western culture is something worth saving, although theres nothing wrong with welcoming ideas from all cultures.
Its pretty self explanatory isnt it? White Christians..
Yes , very explanatory , racist religionist crap .
Thanks for clearing that up for me Panzer . ~:cheers:
About time the Anglo-Saxon population had more new blood here. The lower end of society is starting to go a bit stale. And the upper end went stale about 800 years ago.
Well, I'm going to make a couple of very un-PC observations, call me a racist should you desire:
-When middle easterners talk about preserving their culture and not inter-marrying, the Left gives them a pass, saying 'of course, they should be free to preserve their culture'. When those of European descent say the same things, they're racist bigots. Not exactly a fair standard. Either we all have to disolve our cultural ideosynchracies, or none of us should have to.
-When you move to a foreign culture, it's not unreasonable for those people to expect you to at least honor that culture, if not adopt it. If you really believe the great bastion of cultural tolerance, Tehran, would allow me to trot down the street with a Paris Hilton T-shirt swigging a budweiser, wearing a cross, you're crazy. Heck, I couldn't even get away with that in Damascus, and they're supposed to be a secular state.
-It's easy to preach on about cultural tolerance when you're not the ones having to make sacrafices. Last I checked, and I go to Dublin & Limerick quite often, Ireland didn't look all that different, population wise, then it would have 100 years ago. I'm not saying that you're not open to outsiders, but I've noticed that there's a tip point with immigration where people start to feel threatened. Even black people in America resent the Latinos moving here, and if anything, you'd think they'd join forces and boot the gringos/honkeys out of power.
Let's face it... when immigrants come to a country, some want to join the new culture, and some want to change the existing culture to match theirs. This isn't a statement about Mexicans or Middle-Easterners, it's a fact, be it Irish, Italians, or any of the other waves of immigrants that America has experienced. The local population tends to resent that, and it's a bit high and mighty of you to call them names for not being willing to abandon everything they've ever known to adopt an imported culture.
How can you differintiate the ones who want to integrate, and the ones that do not?
Lol theres nothing wrong with wanting to preserve a particular culture or recognizing the race and religion that perpetuates that culture to the greatest extent.Quote:
Yes , very explanatory , racist religionist crap .
Thanks for clearing that up for me Panzer .
Religionist? Thats a new one for the books.. ~D
As ive said before, such buzzwords are only used to stifle discussion.
I don't see what Christianity has to do with any european culture. If anything religion has always supressed culture. Getting rid of it is the only way we will ever progress our cultures.
Yes, [illigal] immigrants will eventually overwhelm our populations and change the racial features. But they cannot gain political power so long as they are illigal immigrants. It's america's fault for allowing these people to vote and be able to get jobs there with papers, not theirs.
Yes a lot of them will probably intermarry to get papers even if they are illigal, but most will not, because we will be to atheist for them. ~;)
They will be the conservatives, ironically enough and will want to keep other immigrants, possibly from Asia and Africa out.
BP ~;p
Um... I don't get it. It is the fault of the rich people that use illegal immigrants as a cheap work force, not neccassarily America itself's fault.Quote:
It's america's fault for allowing these people to vote and be able to get jobs there with papers, not theirs.
I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with it.Quote:
I don't see what Christianity has to do with any european culture. If anything religion has always supressed culture. Getting rid of it is the only way we will ever progress our cultures.
Now Prince, you very well know that the Christian church preserved vast amounts of culture and knowledge during the dark ages. Christian funded schools helped Europe recover from the brain drain of that time and has been very influential in learning philosophy ever since.
If it werent for Christian preservation and advances in knowledge and thinking, you probably wouldnt have the philosophical standing to denounce Christian teachings. ~;)
Also, the greatest advances in the Muslim world regarding science and thinking were during times when that religion was rapidly growing.
Lol theres nothing wrong with wanting to preserve a particular culture or recognizing the race and religion that perpetuates that culture to the greatest extent.
What religion and culture , what race ?
So I go back to my earlier statement , what the hell is a white christian ?
How dark has your skin pigmentation got to be before you are no longer White ? which branch of Christianity do you have to follow to be a Christian that prepetuates that culture to the greatest extent , how many generations do you have to live in Europe for before you are a European ?
It's easy to preach on about cultural tolerance when you're not the ones having to make sacrafices. Last I checked, and I go to Dublin & Limerick quite often, Ireland didn't look all that different, population wise, then it would have 100 years ago.
Thats strange Don since there are about 20 different nationalities where I am working at the moment and they make up nearly half the workforce there .
BTW why the hell would you want to go to Limerick ? or Dublin for that matter ~D ~D ~D
One of my company's largets design & manufacturing facilities is in Limerick. Dublin, because it's the 'big city'. I like Dublin actually, but I know a lot of people don't. My favorite city though is Killarney (I know, I'm a bloody tourist, shoot me). I'm also a HUGE of Clifden.
Well, no offense, but I find it hard to swallow that your company is perfectly representative of Irish population as a whole. You think you could find 20 different nationalities in all of Mayo, let alone any one village?
One of the ironies of the Dark Ages is that a lot of literature, mathematics and philosophy was preserved and built up on in the Middle East.Quote:
Modern academic use
The term "Dark Ages" is expressive in a different sense today having narrowed somewhat as knowledge has increased. Namely, the events of centuries before roughly 1000 C.E. often seem "dark" to us, due to their paucity of historical records compared with later times—not the entire period Petrarch conceived nor the more familiar High Middle Ages. Late 5th and 6th century Britain for instance, at the height of the Saxon invasions, might well be numbered among "the darkest of the Dark Ages," with the equivalent of a near-total news blackout compared with the Roman era before or even with the centuries following. Further east, the same was true in the formerly Roman province of Dacia, where history after the Roman withdrawal went unrecorded for centuries as Slavs, Avars, Bulgars and others struggled for supremacy in the Danube basin, and events there are still disputed. Historians today also use terms such as "Late Antiquity" and "Early Middle Ages" or "Migration Period" to describe this earlier period.
Meanwhile, the Byzantine Empire and the Abbasid Caliphate experienced Ages that were Golden rather than Dark. Consequently, while usage of these terms varies, including from one place to another (see below), one trend has been for the two terms, Dark Ages and Middle Ages, that were once synonymous in the minds of early humanists to be differentiated and applied to two distinct (if consecutive) periods. Ironically, while Petrarch's concept of a "Dark Age" corresponded to a mostly "Christian" period following pagan Rome, what most users of the term label the "Dark Ages" today are those least Christianized, when events in parts (though not all) of Europe were dominated by the activities of pagan tribes.
Later on when the Normans conquoured Sciliy there was a couple of generations of peaceful mixing between Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim academics that was a great flourishing.
If anything cultural diversity and free flow of ideas is where we see flourishing countries. It is where all knowledge is set and know where we have stagnation of intellect.Quote:
... Sicily was then ruled by the Byzantine Empire until the Arab conquest of AD 827-965. For a brief period (662 - 668) during Byzantine rule Syracuse was the imperial capital, until Constans II was assassinated.
The cultural diversity and religious tolerance of the period of Muslim rule under the Kalbid dynasty continued under the Normans who conquered the island in 1060-1090 (raising its status to that of a kingdom in 1130), and the south German Hohenstaufen dynasty which ruled from 1194, adopting Palermo as its principal seat from 1220.
Huh? Early Christians destroyed greek temples. The masterpieces of western architecture. Do you know how many manuscripts they burned because they refered to paganism? Pretty much all we are missing today is because of early Christians and the burning of the Alexandrian Library.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJager
Which Christian teachings exactly? St.Augustine's? St.Paul's? IMO they were both unitelligent persons who contradicted themselves. Not to mention that St.Paul wrote passages that condoned slavery, and killing of homosexuals in the Bible. Yes if you search thoroughly enough, you'll find them.Quote:
If it werent for Christian preservation and advances in knowledge and thinking, you probably wouldnt have the philosophical standing to denounce Christian teachings. ~;)
The muslim world did some great good when they saved(copied in arabic for us to translate back to english) 90% of western civilizations most important documents that would have otherwise been lost.Quote:
Also, the greatest advances in the Muslim world regarding science and thinking were during times when that religion was rapidly growing.
What do christains have to do with the buring of the library? I guess we should blame the Romans then for destroying all this.Quote:
Pretty much all we are missing today is because of early Christians and the burning of the Alexandrian Library.
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Back this up.Quote:
The muslim world did some great good when they saved(copied in arabic for us to translate back to english) 90% of western civilizations most important documents that would have otherwise been lost.
BP, many monks were also great scholars, and many did save a lot of literary works, as well as teaching people different languages.
But as PJ pointed out, when Islam was flourishing, their culture was flourishing as well.
But it is important to realize that the Church's actions were different through out time, as well as each church handeled things differently. So while the early Church might have destroyed some stuff, they also helped to preserve and pass on other things.
They used fake library cards ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I think it burned in BC you know before Christ. So I doubt there were many christains around.Quote:
They used fake library cards ??
Christianity was the belief that Christ will come again
So if its BC (follow me here)
Then it would be assumed that it would be Jewish believers, or one of the many other religions that was part of Alexandria.
Its really very simple Tribesman.Quote:
What religion and culture , what race ?
So I go back to my earlier statement , what the hell is a white christian ?
A caucasion(male or female) who follows the teachings of Christ.
Your race is a very important aspect of who you are no matter if you want to accept that or not. Youve got to give this information on countless forms throughout your life, so dont act as if its somehow wrong to recognize race. Your own government does.Quote:
How dark has your skin pigmentation got to be before you are no longer White ? which branch of Christianity do you have to follow to be a Christian that prepetuates that culture to the greatest extent , how many generations do you have to live in Europe for before you are a European ?
Maybe there was a Christ before that and Jesus is just the rerun ?? ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
Its really very simple Tribesman.
A caucasion(male or female) who follows the teachings of Christ.
Yes very simple Panzer someone from European , N.African or middle eastern ancestry who follows the teachings of christ , so the Egyptian Copts are now White , So are Iraqi christians . Well thats me stumped , I was worrying about some of those Southern Europeans not being white enough to fit the criteria ~D ~D ~D
You think you could find 20 different nationalities in all of Mayo, let alone any one village?
Well next time you are on your way to Clifden swing round the Corrib to do some sightseeing , you will find the famous "Quiet man" village of Cong on its northen shores , see for yourself . Then head further North to Ballyhauniss .
Actually when you are driving up from Limerick try to time a stop in Gort to coincide with the local Brazilian festival .
No Tribesman, North Africans and Middle Eastern people are usually arab, not white. You really dont understand race do you? Im sure I can find a website that delineates the races, would that help you?Quote:
Yes very simple Panzer someone from European , N.African or middle eastern ancestry who follows the teachings of christ , so the Egyptian Copts are now White , So are Iraqi christians . Well thats me stumped , I was worrying about some of those Southern Europeans not being white enough to fit the criteria
Condescension aside, I think it would be very hard to delineate racesQuote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJager
I work with demographics a lot, and racial makeup of an area is a huge part of that.
Here is an excerpt from a city im doing market research on:
Some people seem to see any mention of race as derogatory or unnecessary, but that isnt the case at all. Being "color-blind" does not actually mean you cannot recognize race.Quote:
As of the census of 2000, there are 85,781 people, 39,288 households, and 19,683 families residing in the CDP. The population density is 878.1/km² (2,274.1/mi²). There are 42,794 housing units at an average density of 438.0/km² (1,134.5/mi²). The racial makeup of the CDP is 77.55% White, 12.04% African American, 0.18% Native American, 3.29% Asian, 0.05% Pacific Islander, 4.94% from other races, and 1.95% from two or more races. 9.93% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race.
PJ, some of the people are of Turkish or Iranian ancestory, not necassarily Arabic.Quote:
No Tribesman, North Africans and Middle Eastern people are usually arab, not white. You really dont understand race do you? Im sure I can find a website that delineates the races, would that help you?
edit: And Iranians (well the original Iranian speakers) were "white". Not sure what Turks are considered.
Well then their not white christains. See even you can tell the difference. ~DQuote:
PJ, some of the people are of Turkish or Iranian ancestory, not necassarily Arabic.
Well the original Iranian speakers were "white". But not Christians, no.
See you can even recognise race from religion ~:)Quote:
Well the original Iranian speakers were "white". But not Christians, no.
If we're talking about Western culture being preserved, I agree and I'm on board.
But I'm also on Tribesman's side... what does it mean to be 'white'? It's a convention that got adopted in the United States that nowadays we think means European, but because I'm not sure everyone understands, that according to the folks that came up with the 'white race', the following peoples are NOT white:
-Italians
-Spaniards (from Spain, not just Latinos)
-Greeks
-Slavs
-Irish (weren't even considered full human beings for a large part of America's history)
-French
Basically, the following racial groups comprise 'the white meta-race': AngloSaxons, Scots, Germanic folk (Dutch included), Nordic people.
Groups I'm unsure of:
Basques, Finns & Hungarians as they're none of the above.
And before you freak out and say 'that's not what I meant, of course French & Irish are white', no, they are not. White was developed by the USA, and religion (being protestant) factored into it as much as skin color or facial features. The Klan hated Catholics as bad as Jews or blacks, trust me. My grandfather got shot in the chest by the Klan, just because he was Irish. And that was in the 30's.
Another issue I have with 'the White race', is the idea of multiple bloodlines. What if my father was German, back to the days of Atilla, but my mother was Nigerian? Would I be white? Of course not, because we have that silly Louisiana law that's a 'one drop of impurity means you're not white' foolishness.
Thats my main concern .Actually Id love to see the day when there was so many mixed marriages that we indeed would only be one race what ever color that winds up or at least that we didnt pay any attention to it other than we do with say a horse of a differnt color. But isnt diversity also a good thing?Quote:
If we're talking about Western culture being preserved, I agree and I'm on board.
Well then I'm not white. I am very pale, and have blond hair, and blue eyes, and look very Germanic, but I'm half Polish. Thus, because I have Slavic blood, I wouldn't be considered white.
And does anyone know what Turkish blood would be considered, just out of curosity?
Quote:
Well then their not white christains. See even you can tell the difference. ~D
Yup, I'm very talented that way. ~;)Quote:
See you can even recognise race from religion ~:)
My grandparents were Irish & Italian immigants, so I'm not white either, Steppe. ~:cheers: This is why I get so furious with Irish, Italian & French people joining the Klan and going on & on about the 'white race'. Yeah dude, you might be able to be their servants, but you ain't white!
The Turks are their own language group called Altai Ugrig. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Id like to know how being catholic removes you from the white race?Quote:
people joining the Klan and going on & on about the 'white race'. Yeah dude, you might be able to be their servants, but you ain't white!
I have pale skin and blue eyes. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Of course you doas your part of the master race.Quote:
I have pale skin and blue eyes.
Quote:
Ary·an adj.
Word History: It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Their tribal self-designation was a word reconstructed as *arya- or *rya-. The first of these is the form found in Iranian, as ultimately in the name of Iran itself (from Middle Persian rn (ahr), “(Land) of the Iranians,” from the genitive plural of r, “Iranian”). The variant *rya- is found unchanged in Sanskrit, where it referred to the upper crust of ancient Indian society. These words became known to European scholars in the 18th century. The shifting of meaning that eventually led to the present-day sense started in the 1830s, when Friedrich Schlegel, a German scholar who was an important early Indo-Europeanist, came up with a theory that linked the Indo-Iranian words with the German word Ehre, “honor,” and older Germanic names containing the element ario-, such as the Swiss warrior Ariovistus who was written about by Julius Caesar. Schlegel theorized that far from being just a designation of the Indo-Iranians, the word *arya- had in fact been what the Indo-Europeans called themselves, meaning something like “the honorable people.” (This theory has since been called into question.) Thus “Aryan” came to be synonymous with “Indo-European,” and in this sense entered the general scholarly consciousness of the day. Not much later, it was proposed that the original homeland of the Indo-Europeans had been in northern Europe. From this theory, it was but a small leap to think of the Aryans as having had a northern European physiotype. While these theories were playing themselves out, certain anti-Semitic scholars in Germany took to viewing the Jews in Germany as the main non-Aryan people because of their Semitic roots; a distinction thus arose in their minds between Jews and the “true Aryan” Germans, a distinction that later furnished unfortunate fodder for the racial theories of the Nazis.
If there are no such thing as races, why do black people get extra points on college admissions?
Don, you are thinking of the white race in terms of how racists have defined it. However, your own government and countless other reputable institutions recognize race as a distinctive feature of a person.