well, a crest is not a plume, you know. I'll respond in depth later but I have to go back to work.
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well, a crest is not a plume, you know. I'll respond in depth later but I have to go back to work.
Coolus helms don't really mount crests like the later IG helms, they have knobs better suited to feather/horsehair plumes. Such plumes were quite cheat, you just need a horse with a black tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by hooahguy14
Later, the box mounted crests were usually not worn because they were easily damaged and quite expensive. It's worth noting that we cannot be sure exactly what type of crest the Legionaries wore.
In EB the Praetorians wear the later IG helm, which is why they do not have crests or plumes. Those units which require changes are reskinned, the list of units require such changes is still under review. I do not wish to say whether or not a unit will be changed until that unit has actually been altered.
As to Goldsworthy, he is far too general in many cases and makes far too many statements, such as the one you posted. Most of his commonly accessable books are designed for the interested layman. His "Complete" Roman Army, for example, glosses over the difference between the early and late 3rd Century.
As to the size of the Evocata's Scuta, it's as exact as our artist could make it.
thanks for the info- i guess ill just have to make do with the plumes- or whatever you call them. but i am curious- can you cite your sources for your evidence that legionaries during the early Principate had plumes or whatever you call it, on their Coolus helmets?
ps- im pleased that the evocata wont have the IG helmets, as they do now. so to summarize, im pleased with the work in general (cant wait to use them!:grin: ) and they look fantastic- so life like! :2thumbsup:
then which historians do you think are reliable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Goldsworthy is fine, but, as Philip said, he is too general. His latest book Caesar is great and I recommend it, but for an analysis of the Roman army you are going to need to look somewhere else. Stay away from Osprey though. They have a book published about the Republican army, but they kept showing plates with details from the Sacrifice and Census portion of the Altar from the Temple of Neptune (previously known as the "Altar of Domitius Ahenobarbus"), which has been dated to ~100 BC.
o ya- IIRC, in recent excavations of the site of the disaster of the Teutoberg Forest, a number of Coolus helmets have been found, without horsehair plumes, or whatever you call them. and IIRC, horsehair doesnt decay, so i guess this is proof there were no horsehair plumes during the principate, but i may be wrong.
as a side request- can you make the Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers darker? they are so white they make my eyes bleed! :laugh4:
no, seriously, they are really light-colored.
Perhaps you have your brightness levels too high? I've adjusted my monitor settings to correct levels, and the skirmishers display just fine (without the head-hurting white-out).
is the brightness level in the options menu?
yeah i think so...and who are the hellenic heavy skirmishers? peltastai?
ya- they are- pretty good soldiers too! :grin:
Nice Pictures! Nice Work!
When is the EB 1.0 release? :download:
EB 1.0 will be released shortly after it is done.Quote:
Originally Posted by ConanCromsen
Foot
It should be on your monitor.Quote:
Originally Posted by hooahguy14
thanks- i couldnt find it on the options menu! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordmaster
ok- so before i "surrender" to the makers of this game about the plume argument, can someone associated with the historical accuracy of the game cite the source they used that convinced them to put plumes on the helmets on the cohors imperatoria? :study:
just some food for throught for you, I dont have time to dig into our sources right now. But you know that the horsehair plumes and crests were probably not even horsehair and were in fact fabricated much like the wolf pelts believed to have been worn by the velites and later antesignani.
however, I can tell you that the Imperial Gallic and Imperial Italic helmets had plume-tubes on the side of the bowl which could receive decorative plumes in addition to the forked crest-box holders. Now, no example of a crest-box has survived from this period, but we know they were widespread (and plumes) due to their placement on the helmets. An excellent plume tube was found at Rheingonheim, for example. Soldiers on the relief formerly known as the Altar of Domitus Ahenobarbus wear long, presumably horse-hair plumes that hang down the rear of the helmet to the shoulders.
If you read Ceasar, he recalls an attack by the Nervii which was so rapid that the legionaries did not have enough time to either remove their shield covers, nor afix their 'insgnia' , a term which probably refers to helmet plumes.
It might intrest you to know that, curiously enough, no fittings have been identified that might have belonged to a transverse crest worn by centurions.
but that was during the marian era, not principateQuote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
o- wow- i didnt know that thats pretty interesting- thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
well, i guess ill be "surrendering"....:surrender2:
now that i look less objectivly at it, i actually think that they look pretty cool w/ the plumes... but they look almost exactly like the evocata. was that intentional?
In response to the earlier question the Garamantines are a regional and thus available to anyone who conquers Garama. Also look out because more African locals are coming to an EB near you.
They were fabricated? That's cool. I have always been a bit worried about the thousands of poor wolves that had to die for those velites.:no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
What about the bear-furs weared by the Signiferes and Aquiliferes? I once heard that the Romans had a corps of Ursarii especially for the purpose of getting enough bear-skins for the Legions.
ok- i got some evidence which proves both of us right- in the book "Warfare in the Classical World" John Warry writes that plumes were still used during Augustus time during battle, but shortly afterwards they were restricted to parades. so i guess both of us are right. :2thumbsup:
Now, that's the beauty of a topic such as 'the world back then'. ~;)
There are two things that make us think they probably had a simple plume well into the Principate, firstly there's not real reason not to, soldiers had been wearing sugh for centuries, secondly, we know Centurians and other Officers wore their more complicated crests. Overall the evidence suggest that they wore a simple plume, probably of undyed horsehair or maybe dyed wool. We cannot, however, say for certain. At the same time though I can't tell you who was and was not using the old Republic Scutum, it may have been abandoned around the time of Caesar or have still been in use at the death of Augustus.Quote:
Originally Posted by hooahguy14
Wasn't the scutum retained for cavalry auxilia, or am I confusing it with another, similiar type of shield?
I like that Sweboz general, great job guys :2thumbsup:
You're confused. The Cavalry used a shield rather like a large theouros, pretty much the same as the Infantry Auxillia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios
Thanks! I hope we'll have several nice new things for the Sweboz, the general being one of the most important. Judging from your name, you may be pleased to know there have been several new things for the Getai as well. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
^Like that unit in your sig ?
How come? ... What sig? :grin:
a what?
In other words, will that ginger guy* be in the game?
* An artist's impression of the aforementioned ginger guy:
http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/...rm_3749b53.png
Before I say yes or no, I need to know if you can find the preview by yourself. Hint: development.
http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img....jpg&srv=img02
ehm...it is my small piece. I dont know what I penciled for a warior, someone could help me with indetification? I mean he could be a Samnite warior, with some equipment of roman hastat. Maybe he got this equipment after successfull battle against conceited Romans:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pius Curus
It looks like he's passed out on a table!
http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/...rm_485ec95.jpg
http://www.paulspond.com/journalimages/sleepybrian2.jpg
Sorry. (not)
Hmm.. A self portrait perhaps?
well, that does look like a very comfortable ping-pong table.... :laugh4:
Hey Kahju:) That is really cool sleep position:) I saw somewhere on web drunk positions, but you found new one:)
The picture is wrong scaned:-/ It should looks like lunge from behind the shield:)...but it should be:) Could you write me how can I place the picture directly into the forum without prolink, pls?
Thx
Hey, that guy's not me! It's just a random picture I found on the Internet. When I saw Pius' drawing, I immediately noticed how the guy he drew seemed to be sleeping on a table, so I used Google to search for a similar RL picture. Unfortunately, I had to browse through hundreds of "drunk passed out hot teen girls abused xxx" pictures before I found anything suitable.
Quote:
Could you write me how can I place the picture directly into the forum without prolink, pls?
Use the button on the button row. Sorry, I can't give any better advice. But it isn't hard.
Sweet...can't wait for the new units to be released.
Who are those cloaked folks fighting the evocata in the last picture? Are they another new unit?
Altogether, the units look awesome. Right out of the park.
Thank you, that is very good news. Could you already say something about the locals: from the Sahara or black Africa? Nubian archers or javelinmen for instance would be great, such light troops are of good use even in the late game.:yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanit
Yeah...I was estatic when I began playing EB, my first campaign was Sabean. I was little disappointed when I saw the lack of "Black African" troops. The Nubian and Ethiopian spearmen look exactly alike except for their names. In fact, the look almost like the Nubian spearmen from RTW except for the lack of a phalanx. The Aethiopikon Agema is amazing, but the region needs something along the lines of Nubian archers/skirmishers.
Also...I am lost to why you can recruit the "Galatikoi" soldiers in Aegyptos...did they really settle so far south?
Yes, and in relatively large quantities.
I thought they only settled the Delta.
Oh, well I wasn't sure if he meant south as in Egypt or south as in southern/upper Egypt.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus
no, there were galatians up and down the nile, though primarily at/near alexandreia, memphis, and in the fayum in the latter 3rd c, and then later in the thebaid as well. they were also present on kypros, and some were settled in "syria," which could refer either to galatians formerly in seleukid service at antioch, or galatians in settlements in phoinikia and iudaia. however, we will be looking for ways to limit their numbers in eb2
Tonight, I sent a mighty army of Elite Africans and Sacred Band Horses from Carthage to retake Lepki which had recently fallen to the children of Ptolemios. In an nearby oasis the Aegyptioi ambush the children of Dido and in the dense palm forest, the Carthaginians are cut to pieces by those bloody Kelt mercenaries. Again, Carthage fails to reestablish her supremacy in Libya...
....If I don't end this campaign by sacking Galatia
hello to all .............
I wanted to ask the permission in order to use the file.cas of
Thureopherontes Toxotai
I want to create with it an unit of Nuragic warrior.
therefore a armed model serves me is of bow that of sword
naturally I will have to completely modify the skin of thureopherontes.
I can make it?
:help::help::help::help:
Are you making a mod for RTW?Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalonur9
no .....I want to only recreate the nuragic warrior…
if then I will succeed to do good them and they will appeal to you I would be also content you inserted if them in E.b.
but not creed because it is the firstime that I modify the skin
I guess there's no problem at all, but since i'm not a member of the EB team, i suggest you wait a bit more, till one of them say if you can or cannot.Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalonur9
and as I make to ask it to it?
I create a new one 3d or I attend that they answer to me here?
I hope not to have to wait for much time.
Since i wont take my chances saying 'Yes, you can' just wait till one of them give you the green lightQuote:
Originally Posted by dedalonur9
certainly I understand to you, Havok…. :yes::yes:
I wanted to only know if it was the possibility that they saw our argument, or if it must create a 3d in a specific section of the forum,
thanks
EB Unofficial Modding Projects would be more appropriate to such question, though i think in here i think you'll get your answer faster(Creating a new thread would be even quicker) also, pms are good too.Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalonur9
thanks! I create a 3d in that section and attend the permission
hallo!:beam::beam:
Ja. :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalonur9
I just hope you will make the unit a bit lighter, unless you want to represent the nuragic nobles, in that case you would need to move the unit up in the local MIC.Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalonur9
what is the local mic? .............I presume THE Sardinian army
I want to create the heavy infantry and the cavalry.....
these last ones could be recruited from the punic.........historically they formed an alliance against the Roman (Ampsicora.... Josto......for example...)
f I succeed to us I improve the shardanam of E.b in order to render them more similar to the statues…
Local MIC = native barracks = troops that are recruited among the original population of the area.
So yes, the Nuragic army...
In any case I wouldn't mind seeing some improvements, pride aside they were still considered quite tougher than in EB description even after the punic wars: "Gaudentes et exsultantes, si taliter se in ferinas species transformaverint. Ut homis non esse videantur."
It's just too bad that every academic that studied the nuragic civilization that I queried about taking a look at EB always refused to be even hinted in being involved in something close to a computer game, it would have been so much easier for everybody...
EDIT: BTW, Cavalry? I really don't see the basis for a native cavalry force, at least not in numbers.
Sardinian geography is not exactly the best for warhorses and back then there still was only the native breed (the native ponies were and still are rugged marchers but no chargers or real runners).
On that side you might want to have some punic civic cavalry but that's pretty much it.
Zarax thanks for the interest that always demonstrates regarding the Nuragic civilization....
therefore you have asked for the Sardinian scholars information on this argument? who?
I'm regret. a lot for their refusal. but some of they consider their studies on that past.... sacred
others are in bad faith, and refuse also the mere hypothesis, that is hardly now making road on the Shardana… while in others you leave of the world is discussed already for a long time.
therefore I do not find their behavior strange: it is pettiness ....
you refer to the mini-horses of Giara.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarax
but those are of were them living, in Sardinia c' they were also of the little ones elephants, not establish on this..... for your conclusions....
we do not know when the horse was imported in Sardinia.
But the Sardinians for the horses have true cult. if a day you will come in Sardinia, you will see that in many countries the stables rise as an example near the houses…, Orgosolo. and it is a mountain country.
in Sardinia many festivities of Nuragic origin exist based on the horse. as an example S' Ardia.
http://www.sardiniapoint.it/1437.html
I have translate for you:
Perhaps laughed them quite to the nuragico period, as seem to indicate the presence in the sacred area of a bètilo (betilo= Bet-il house of god), said pedra de Santu Antine, that it represents a feminine divinity of the fertility rituals.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjrP27...eature=related
Santu Antine
it is one of the greatest and Nuraghi important of the Sardinia.
http://www.fontesarda.it/imgsarde/nursan31.jpg
moreover we have various reperti that the nuragici went to horse, in a bronze statue a knight is in feet over a horse, like in other Sardinian tradition: The Pariglia
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=vadvH4...eature=related
this is typical askos a Sardinian one, even if they call it found villanoviano vase because in Italy
https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/26...xw200h2gb9.jpg
this has been found in a nuragic village
https://img206.imageshack.us/img206/...etimageof7.gif
the symbols of the first vase are Sardinian, and the knight has the round shield of the Sardinians
Ok, just to establish a few things:
Bi chi soe Nugoresu, ja l'isco chi b'este sa e s'ardia, sa sartiglia e ja connosco santu antine.
That said: I'm not saying there weren't horses in Sardinia at the time, I'm just pointing that given the native resources I doubt that heavy horses went over what in RTW would be represented by the general's bodyguard.
Sardinian equestrian tradition on the other side developed in the middle ages, when norman and arabic horses were imported, creating the basis for today's anglo-arabo-sardo. Sa sartiglia is for example derived from earlier moorish and spanish cavalry contests, quite later than what has been represented in EB.
Once again, we need to distinguish between imported military styles (be it greek, etruscan or punic) from the native nuragic fighting style, which was not unlike the iberian one.
It is more likely that the bulk of the nuragic tribes at the time was made of lighter infantry than showed in bronze statues, wouldn't be surprised if the later mamuthones derived from those as the romans called them Sardi Peliti.
To those that aren't familiar with Sardinian folklore here's what I'm talking about: http://www.mamuthones.it/immagini/foto/mamuth_13.jpg
Not exactly looking like pushovers, no?
EDIT: As I realize that this subtopic was started with thread necromancy I plead a kind moderator to move the posts to a more relevant place before closing the topic.
Dedalonur, please PM MarcusAureliusAntoninus.
Bovi, I have yesterday sent a pm to Marcus Aurelius Antoninus
Zarax we are making a O.t speech here I answer to you here if vuo still to discuss of…
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...76#post1876576