I agree, they shouldn't be playable from 1700. If there are eras, 1775 could be a good starting date, and they could be playable in the 1775 and 1789 scenarios! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by russia almighty
Printable View
I agree, they shouldn't be playable from 1700. If there are eras, 1775 could be a good starting date, and they could be playable in the 1775 and 1789 scenarios! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by russia almighty
The Mughals are in, whether or not they are a playable faction...:shrug:
The map doesn't cover this area...~:0Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Oh jesus people have started whining because their country might not be in the game. Happens every time.
Think of it this way - judging by the increase in faction slots with each TW game, we should hit the number of existing countries in the world in about ten years. So you'll only have to put up with it for a decade... :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Mental
I want a pirate king faction! must have a pirate faction.....
Message for SaFeQuote:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1700.htm
:smash:
Well, since you think putting Poland-Lithuania in the game is a joke, I suggest that you go and study some history... :shame: :book: :thumbsdown: click on the link, Poland is this tiny light blue country that was the biggest European country at that time (excluding Ottoman Empire, and Tsardom of Muscovy - today's Russia).
History is not marketing my friend. If you think Poland-Lithuania was a minor player in European history, check out the Battle of Vienna of 1683 when Jan III Sobieski saved the Austrian from Ottoman Empire invasion. I must agree with you that Austria-Hungary should be in the game, as it was a major player at that time, Poland is not a substitution. For future please educate yourself before posting, I assure you there is no involvement from the Kaczynski brothers.
I couldn't stand that Sid Meier forgot about Poland in his newest expansion, I did respect him a lot before. I like that Creative Assembly's team really do their homework on history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna
Thanks,
I don't agree with the fact that Poland (Rzeczpospolita to be more specific) should be a major faction in the timespawn of this game . see maps from the left :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-...n_Commonwealth
Quote:
By the 18th century, the Commonwealth was facing many internal problems and was vulnerable to foreign influences. The destabilization of the political system brought it to the brink of anarchy. Attempts at reform, such as those made by the Four-Year Sejm of 1788–92, which culminated in the May 3rd Constitution of 1791, came too late, and the country was partitioned in three stages by the neighboring Russian Empire, Kingdom of Prussia, and the Habsburg Monarchy. By 1795 the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth had been completely erased from the map of Europe. Poland and Lithuania re-established their independence, as separate countries, only in 1918.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsintergalactic
The siege of vienna is out of time-frame - simple as that and Sobieski is probably dead by the start of the game.
I never said Poland should not be in the 50 faction slot, but it was a minor player in the 1700 - 1800.
The importance of a nation is not the land mass it posesses.
In the furture please do not imply others should educate themselves - this is a discussion and should not be on a personal level.
Also if you quote Centurio Nixalsverdrus you should adress him directly.
Thank you.
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth would at least look odd as rebels, seeing as the entire large landmass - despite its smaller influence at this time - was formally controlled by a single leader. Whether to make it a playable faction or not it's another thing. IMO it would be a nice strategical challenge to try and fight the decline and somehow reestablish a strong Poland - I always enjoyed the difficult factions in previous TW games, West Rome in BI being one of the nicest examples. Difficult of course, considering the often destructive influence the nobility held, and considering the diplomatic problems caused by both previous wars, and being challenged by new, ambitious enemies, such as Prussia.
In the current issue of German magazine GameStar, China and Japan were confirmed as not being in the game.
Japan, because it went through one of its isolationists bouts and China because "nothing much happened there during the era of E:TW".
Oh and yes, I'd love to have an Austrian faction playable ;-)
Ok, fair enough no China and Japan, but India confirmed I suppose? I hope the East Indies and some territories east of India will be on the map as well, because I don't really like it when the gameplay is affected by the map edge, i.e. you always have your back free if you conquer everything up to the "map edge" in the game. Please include supply losses and include the East Indies/Indonesia/Bangladesh area as provinces, but almost impossible to conquer from the rebel faction, so there's at least a theoretical threat from east of India, apart from those from the north and west caused by other factions, so defensive forces for this purpose are needed!
Errm, to whom is your post directed?Quote:
Originally Posted by xsintergalactic
Well, in case it was adressed to me:
1. History is not marketing, but marketing is the main reason behind the decisions being made by CA of which factions putting in and which not. If CA wouldn't care about marketing, they'd 1) let Poland and the U.S. out of the game and 2) be bancrupt because of a severe lack of buyers.
2. I know about the battle of Vienna and I am glad it turned out as it did in history, thanks to the Polish King.
3. Regarding history, Jan Sobieski's saving of Vienna was something like Polands last heroic deed. The Polish-Lithuanian Confederacy was rotten from within, and as SaFe stated, territorial expansion is not the key factor in judging a country's importance in a timeframe.
4. We all should educate ourselves, but talking this way is rather offending.
5. I am not your friend if you think I should educate myself.
6. Glad to hear the Kaczynski brothers are not involved.
I made a little world map with the territories supposed to be in the game, it's in the stickied thread. It looks a bit weird though.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Nice, I looked at it! The weirdness could be fixed by fog of war, somewhat like in EUII, where the visible parts of the map also has a non-rectangular shape.
Maybe there should be an emerging irish faction as well, that would be great, armys of peasent hordes armed with sythes and pikes , driving cattle infront of them to coverthemselves from the english musket and cannon fire :)
Seriously though poland might make a good addition it covred a large area at the begining of the game period and preventing its historical demise would be a fun challange. but it was not very importnat during this time period.
i think america should also be left out, it played a minor role in this period (appart from the war of independance and the effect it had on france)
Alos why are factions unplayable? even if its too hard it could still be fun.
id like to see a few non european facxtions , perhaps startong off inferior but given the chance to develop.
(sorry for weird words spelling i am in hungary at the moment trying to use a hungarian keyboard with the letters faded off)
I want the Poland-Lithuania commonwealth included! Other than that, you can count on the usual suspects. I'm rather curious about Italy though. How many factions did they have at that point?
Azi
TW games are not about history as it went. They are about hypothetical history. Poland and the Dutch provinces were there in the beginning of the game and would offer some diversity to game play. If USA is in the game they had every right to be in too.
Of course Austria and Hungary should also be in the game as a playable faction. Perhaps also HREGN, the imperial troops from the Reichskreise played an imminent but often overlooked part in the succession wars against the French. Why not crush Prussia and Austria and remain as an empire after kicking the Habsburg emperor from the throne?
To have only 10 playable factions would be a big drawback. F.e. it would be a pity if the Ottomans would be the only non-western playable faction. If Indians or North Africans or Native Americans would have united (it's up to us to achieve this) history would have been different. And please, ever heard of the Scots dominating Europe (in M2TW)?
Everything would be possible, only the historically correct starting points and the economic and military mechanics should be there, CA should let us do the rest.
What rights have the U.S. to be in the game, even if i agree with you about the game is not history replaying.Quote:
Originally Posted by geala
At the start date of the game the U.S. simply is a colony of the British, so we should atleast start with a historical correct view of the nations.
If the U.S. is playxable in a expansion about rebellion i'm more than happy to try them out myself, but if i have to choose about for example a playable Austria or Portugal instead of U.S. in the main programm there should be no question.
Yes the purpose of the game is not to be conpletely in line with history (there would be no fun) but to take a nation from a historicaly accurate period and change the outcome. with this in mind i wouldnt mind if america and loads of other nations could be possibly playable, but with only 1ö player nations i would rather see a more powerfull one.
and if are going with the changing a nations destiny line why not include someone like china, they would have a vastly different style of play from the european (and american ) nations. plus were potentionaly a lot more powerful than america. i know they were highly isolationist at the time, but the purpose of the game is to rewrite history yourself.
I think america was only put in for marketing reasons (i am sure many americans would love the idea of playing there own faction)
Personally I think that China, Japan, Africa and South America are being saved for an expansion pack to cover things like the Opium Wars, the Scramble for Africa, and the wars of independence (and War of the Triple Alliance) in Latin America.
The age of revolution would make a nice expansion too.
Has to be in, of course, for obvious reasons...:yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by FrauGloer
Quid
ye the swiss, its about time to include them as a faction. :juggle2:
Denmark-Norway, definatly
The Independance countries. If you know what Im refering to.
norway and denamerk, plus switzerland participation in these periods were as piddling as my own countrys (ireland), mere side shows to the games of the big powers.
it would be nice to see some non european states to try and hold off the european expasion.
your probably right the bigger asian nations are being left for some expansion, well at least i hope so.
i just hope the styles of play between the various factions is otably different.
thats one f the main reason i like to see different cultures in the game for different styles of play.
The Swiss were perhaps not important, and Ireland wasn't a faction at this time, but Denmark-Norway was a power of major importance at the time. The fact they were overrun so quickly in the early Great northern war, and the Napoleonic wars, may hide this fact to some. But first of all they had one of the strongest fleets in Europe at the time - their theoretical ability to ally with the Dutch or Spanish or other possible competitors with Britain was a major factor in politics of the entire 18th century: also in the Napoleonic wars. Although they had lost a lot of land strength after losing Scania (and thereby the Sound straits toll for all trade entering the Baltic), they were not by far an insignificant power even after this. Had they successfully retaken Scania in one of their many wars with Sweden, they could have reestablished it. Or if they had chosen a different diplomatic policy (since most nations opposed the Sound straits toll, attempting to retake Scania and reestablish it would not give them much support, but instead more enemies than they had resources to handle). They also had a chance for exploits and expansion of influence in the northern HRE, and the Swedish army lost plenty of men thanks to the Danish ability to block and harass any troop transports over the Baltic. Had they found a diplomatic method of expanding their influence there, for example, and/or improve their relations with the Dutch, who knows what had happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daithi MacGuillaCathair
I would think that the Opium Wars would be a bit one sided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Mental
On one side: Chinese with.........imperial infantry with outdated technology
On the other side: European powers with.........all of the latest technology and more economically powerful
You are right, of course, we did bugger all until 1842, but I still can't get over the fact that we weren't included in Medievil...Tragic, that. So a little compensation is in order...Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Quid
What about Russia, its a relativly big place, or is it not included in the map, it be a strange one to leave out considering its size.
I'd expect Russia to be in the game.
Russia has already been confirmed to be in :bow:
sorry missed that , dont know how
But u can still play them in medieval total war there in the late era and u just need to unlock them, i must admit they were pretty good.:pirate2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Denali
I agree with those who've said that HRE should not be a single state. It's just horribly inaccurate. Instead, make several factions out of it and if need be make the rest rebels.
This might sound silly, but I would like to see the Iroquois put in the game. Probably as an non playable faction. Had they not allied with the British, I might be speaking French now. I have enough problems with enuciation as it is:embarassed: .
french and indian war will definitely feature (i hope) :P
I would like to see the Jacobite Rebellion in like a historic campaign or something because the last battle on British soil was fought in that rebellion.
And in the middle of the game they could make the Scots or Irish rebel or somethin like that.
Heh, I hope due emphasis is placed on the European part of the conflict. It'd be great as a mini campaign, with at least Prussia, Russians and the Austrians, with French and English intervention to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjahboy
Is Prussia the only german nation which will be present in game?
Hi Galapagos,
It's currently the only confirmed German faction, although I, at least, expect there to be a few more in that region than just Prussia. You can read more about the confirmed factions here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapagos
Hope this helps, cheers!
I'd be willing to bet that Austria will be in the game, but other than Prussia and Austria I don't remember any other major German nations during the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapagos
This is a stupid question...Will Prussia be playable?
P.S. I have this feeling that you are haunting me Omanes.:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: (no offense)
I would guess so, I think the list that CA put out is of playable factions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapagos
It is very probable that Prussia will be playable. At least in Gamestar magazin the information is given that England, France, Prussia, Russia and the Sublime Porte will be among the 10 playable nations. I hope still for more playable factions than just 10.
I'm hoping Bavaria will be in too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
it needs a scotland for jacobites
England
France
Hapsburg Empire (Austria)
Spain
Netherlands
Russia
Ottoman Empire
Germany
Italy
Sweden
Those are the basic powers ( even though some are not really unified countries). I think these would be large enough to support a nice variety of units with special units for regional flavor (Prussian Musketeers, Croat Cavalry, Sicillian Skirmishers, Dutch Musketeer Militia, Scots Grenadiers, etc).
2 german factions would be a bit much when there are so many different cultures to choose from
I think CA want to create a game based on historical reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daithi MacGuillaCathair
Naturally Austria and Prussia were very important nations during this era, so why should we include a nation that was not so important?
Just for cultural diversity?
What is a different culture for you? The Japanese, the Chinese?
Even the French had culturally so much in common with Austria and Prussia except of the colour of the uniforms and the names of their units you will be dissapointed if you looking for big differences..
If CA goes this way the can dig their own grave...
Just imagine Austria as "rebels"? The whole diplomacy net and conflicts between Russia, France, Prussia, Britain and Austria would be absent.
If you think about it they could include all european nations at the time well apart from most of the 360 so german states of the hre the rest of europe could be fully covered by playable nationas some 25-30 i think:2thumbsup:
This map should tell you what i'm talking about. http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1600.htmOf course we could unite some nations like the ones in ireland into the irish clans per say.
Since i don;t know the starting date here's a map of europe in 1700 still i think most nations could be represented.http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1700.htm
sorry by more than two german factions i didnt include Austria as that, Austria is more of a multi ethnic empire (albeit german i agree) ,
what i was syaing that another german faction in adition to prussia (and austria) would be too much as a player faction, if there are only ten slots i would like to see it used else where. 3 germanic player factions would be too much, i would rather see an non european faction added.
I don't think you could include the Irish as a faction except perhaps as an emerging rebellious one. However we should be represented in the troop roster, the British Irish brigades, as well as the French, Spanish, Austria-Hungarian etc ones.
THE MUGHALS!
an irish faction? that would be daft. apart from some rebellions and that we didnt play any independant role at this time, of course i personaly would be happy with irish rebels and regiments or even an emerging faction, but there are many other nations and peoples who i would prefer to see.
It seemed to me like CA meant "playable from the beginning" for the ten faction limit. I wouldn't mind if Bavaria was unplayable, but they were historically involved in a number of wars in that timeframe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daithi MacGuillaCathair
Well, i can't imagine to exclude Austria from the mysterious 10 spot factions.
They were much to important.
Naturally Bavaria or Hessen should be also in the game, though not as playable from beginning. I really hope as some kind of "patriotism" a faction named Baden, but my hope is not too high as the Prussians and Wuerttembergers kickes us around a lot:-)
With playable CA means (Inteprid Sidekick mentioned it) unique faction movies, historical events, etc...
So, definately not the U.S. as starting faction please. Give this spot Austria or the Dutch.
I really like to play a expansion about the american revolution or even the cicil war, but not in the vanilla game.
I think this would be a great opportunity to put a couple of African factions in. Slavery pretty much made the colonization of the Americas possible (US, Brazil, Caribbean). All the important european powers dealth with African states during this period (1700-1800). I read that there will be like 50 additional factions, so there is no reason you can't have a handful of factions in Africa. I recommend just 6. All fought with guns, all had coastal navies and most importantly they were all empires...
Morocco (in Morocco of course, premier north african state)
Tripolitania (in Libya, fought the USA)
Kaabu (in Guinea, sold lots of slaves to french)
Asanteman (in Ghana, sold lots of slaves and gold to English and Dutch)
Benin (in Nigeria, sold some slaves and textiles to Portuguese and Dutch)
Aro (spanned Nigeria and Cameroon, sold lots of slaves to English)
I'd also expect to see some Native American factions, especially in New England and Canada.
Yeah before the 1500s I wouldn't mind an Irish faction but this is smack dab in the middle of the British Empire so.....not this time....:idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daithi MacGuillaCathair
Likewise, if Scotland is faction someone's head will be on the floor.....
Well, we know America is in as a faction, from the naval combat screenshots CA has posted. They haven't said for sure that it's playable as a "main" faction, but I think they'd be nuts to limit the appeal of the game to the huge U.S. gamer market.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaFe
More importantly, the game is more interesting (IMO) if that's one of the major playable factions. It wouldn't be the first faction I'd try... I'd probably start with one of the major European powers, but it would be a nice change of pace after that. It really flips the strategic and logistic thinking when you're operating from the west side of the map. It's the only faction that would be trying to expand and conquer from the west side of the map towards the East, instead of the other way around. Or at least, hold the European powers at bay, while consolidating an empire in the New World. So, nationalistic impulses aside, I think it makes sense just as a fun strategic challenge.
I probably won't end up playing the campaign as the Americans, mostly because there are so many other factions I want to play in so little time. However, I hope that it doesn't end up being like playing America in Hearts of Iron II, where you can just sit around because nobody can touch you.
I'm not buying this game unless it has BARTIX :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge:
we cann maek a BARTIXX modd if jo liek iam moder i ave make manni mod bifoer and know how too modill stickman :charge: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb: ~:lightbulb:
im hoping maybe british and dutch peaple in africa,dindt they have armies in africa too?:wall:
i dont think the american natives will be an option,they dont have any big warships do they?:wizard:
that tiny country between France and Spain
you mean portugal?:pokemon:
Aquitaine, Aragon?
Andorra?Quote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
is that what that tiny place is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambyses II
I bet the combined wealth of some of the richest people in the US could buy that place....
I would like to see an African Empire. Maybe Morocco.
I think its pretty obvious CA will put every insignificant faction in Europe, Asia and the Americas in before they add an African empire. It goes beyond market sensibilities, now. They (and a lot of other game developers) simply ignore the continent and frankly i'm tired of bringin it up. I definately won't buy the game if Africa (especially sub saharan africa) :daisy:
Great Britain
Russia
France
Germany (deepening on year start)
Austria-Hungary (deepening on year start)
Italy (deepening on year start)
Spain
Portugal
Holland
Belgium (The dutch wars be good)
Sweden
Denmark
Norway (deepening on year start)
Finland (deepening on year start)
Poland (deepening on year start)
Ottoman (turks)
Persia
Oman
Afghanistan
British India
China
Japan
United States of America
Confederate States of America (deepening on year start)
Mexico
Brazil
Argentina
Chile
Colombia
Venezuela
Peru
Paraguay
Im not sure what the map is going to be like, The "first world war" was really fought during the 18th Century, So i believe that we should see a world map, And im not clear when this game is going to start, What year?? Well if its from around 1812 onwards, That'll be my list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper The Builder
Does anyone read about the game before they post?
I don't think racism has anything to do with it. The game is about a period in history where empires were established and supported by big ocean-going navies, and it has a new 3D tactical naval combat engine to show off. It makes sense to me that the main playable factions would be those that did, in fact, have a seagoing history and the ability to build something as complex as an ocean-crossing ship of the line. That was the peak of technology at the time; it was the equivalent of the race to the moon between the Soviets and the USA. Only the most economically well-developed and technologically advanced nations were able to fight over the spoils of the New World, while still maintaining power in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by MansaSakura
So it's not a question of racism (IMO). Including an African empire as a main playable faction would make about as much sense as including Switzerland (oooh, there I've gone and upset the Swiss ~;p ).
I like alternate "what if" scenarios, but they work best if they're at least a little grounded in reality. I could see an alternate world where the Ottomans conquered the New World because they were technologically fairly well advanced, and located at a cross-roads for the flow of ideas and technology. They had a pretty decent navy at the time. But the idea of an African kingdom figuring out how to build ships of the line and contest the major European powers for territory in the New World, is just too big a stretch (IMO).
If you haven't read it, I recommend a book called "Guns, Germs, and Steel" about the reasons why Europeans counquered the New World and Africa, instead of it happening the other way around. It's actually a very strong argument against racism as a way to explain why history turned out the way it did.
guys,forget about africa unless you mean dutch and british peaple in africa,natives in africa and america didnt even make there own guns,or ships:furious3:
I think the title pretty much explains why europeans conquered the new world :laugh4:Quote:
If you haven't read it, I recommend a book called "Guns, Germs, and Steel" about the reasons why Europeans counquered the New World and Africa, instead of it happening the other way around. It's actually a very strong argument against racism as a way to explain why history turned out the way it did.
Not sure why Germany and Italy is on that list and Norway and Finland cause I'm pretty sure they were in existence at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper The Builder