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Originally Posted by Sakkura
It was a variation that was introduced by the navy in 1916, when Hitler was a little private, Goebbels was studing to become a priest, Göring was pilot under Richthofen, Himmler was still at school and no one had an idea what 'Nazi' should be.
And of course, it was used on German planes, tanks etc., it was an military identifying mark.
The balkenkreuz and the Iron cross is the same
Balkenkreuz is the shape of the iron cross :laugh4:
€dit: not balkenkreuz of course, I mean tatzenkreuz
Exactly. Both of those crosses were used before the nazi party existed and were used by the armed forces with no special nazi connotations (unlike the swastika). Which is why I find it a little odd if Germany allows one but not the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
I don't know what actually were the reasons to return to the old style 1955. For sure, distinguishing the new Bundeswehr from the WWII Wehrmacht was an argument. That should probbaly also create a Prussian heritage for the new army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakkura
^ btw, the swastika is also a symbol for love and peace :) in Buddhism, and is commonly found in Buddhist festivals in PRC-China, ROC-Taiwan, Koreas, and Japan.
To add an entirely constructive contribution to the cross-discussion...
I'm actually working on a petition to be sent to the German Ministry of Internal affairs, pleading for the internet being searched on any pages containing the symbol x - yeah, x, and blocking access to those pages from german IPs, or alternatively trying to get a trojan and that server and f...ing take it down, woohoo (yes, Mr. Schäuble knows what I am talking about).
I mean, really, I'm not someone who is nitpicking about such things, but look at the X. Actually nobody needs it, and when you take a look at it and imagine some tiny serifs at the edges of the crosses arms, or maybe a little rotation... you know what I mean.
I'm almost entirely sure that these symbol is or will be used as some sort of distinctive mark by neonazis, who think that they will be safe under the cover of the legal X, but ha, they didn't reckon on me. I tend to look suspiciously on people bearing that symbol on their shirts - those people seem to be innumerous, with words on their shirts like Sexmachine or XXL, displaying their ideology in such a shameless manner. I swear, next time I'll see someone like that, I won't hesitate to handle them as they deserve.
I could give uncountable more examples. I've been recently told about XXX pages in the internet that I should not visit - surely to avoid ideological manipulation - or a film named xXx, featuring some sort of Übermensch as protagonist.
So, ban the x, for showing those bastards we won't tolerate the open showing of their ideology.
*Sarcasm off*
Seriously, I am pretty happy that the swastika isn't included in EB. Yes, I know that this symbol has been used for many centuries without any negative meaning, but, you know, it does rise some ungood feeling when seeing it, especially for some idiots keep on using it - and I mean the ones that use it in the meaning it was used 1933-45. This is just not a topic that can be discussed all rational, but one has to keep an eye on the connotations that symbols bring along.
But regarding some of the postings made above, albeit if meant serious or not, it tempted me to just quarry out such a satirical post.
So move along people, there's nothing to see here.
Yours sincerely,
your jocular Ariovistus
The answer to that is not entirely clear. There was a guy who had a shop selling Anti-Fa (Anti-Fascist group, mostly punks) stuff like t-shirts with images like a broken swastika in a waste-basket. Or one in a red circle with a red bar across it (like road-signs for things that are forbidden).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsiuv
He was charged by an over-ambitious state-attorney and sentenced by a low-level court for distributing forbidden nazi-propaganda.
But a higher-level court ruled last year, that yes: he was indeed showing a nazi-symbol. But no: he did not advertise nazi ideas but was trying to fight them.
What complicates the whole issue is, that neo-nazis used many stylized nazi symbols to prevent the ban of the "original" ones.
So now it is up to courts to decide from case to case whether the usage could be promoting nazi ideas or fighting it. That goes for t-shirts, posters, coffee-mugs etc.
In history books, movies about the time etc. it can be used. Unless you try to tell lies or to say that the nazis were actually cool. That would be "Volksverhetzung" and get you in front of a court quickly.