Sorceror 17er Game Thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladd

i'll help benneh and then go afk for the next 24ish hours

v
mont
benneh
ladd

sleep

i don't like ender's way of posting (almost all of his posts are answer to other quotes and in last page he answered newcomb's post which was the last one and then went back to answer cuth's whose post was before and gave me "posting just to post" vibes). Both of these things are >rand w ime

for context:





i'll yolo a sunbae w read (you'll do amazing in champs tho! genuinely)

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This one kek

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

zack
Sunbae
Newcomb

nebjiamn

cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency

EnderWiggin
roro__b
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt

How likely is it both wolves in the bottom section? Gotta say I'm kind of going over various pairs of them in my head and none of them kind of intuitively click as "ah yes this makes the game make perfect sense."

Could there have been a ladd busser? Ehhhhhhh.

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This list is interdasting tbh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

zack
Sunbae
Newcomb

nebjiamn

cuthillius
Raskolnikov
Montmorency

EnderWiggin
roro__b
katze
Sleep
Cape90
hollowkatt

How likely is it both wolves in the bottom section? Gotta say I'm kind of going over various pairs of them in my head and none of them kind of intuitively click as "ah yes this makes the game make perfect sense."

Could there have been a ladd busser? Ehhhhhhh.

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i think katze looks better from having pushed for the dolby bomb. i guess she can't know that csargo would actually do it but /shrug

if there's a busser on the ladd wagon i'm inclined to think its cuth over rask/monty but that doesn't feel great

rather than world build, how do you rank people in that bottom section from villagery to wolfy (assuming you haven't already ordered them as such)

@Dobby Why are you town?
Like what's your claim to fame here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i think katze looks better from having pushed for the dolby bomb. i guess she can't know that csargo would actually do it but /shrug

if there's a busser on the ladd wagon i'm inclined to think its cuth over rask/monty but that doesn't feel great

rather than world build, how do you rank people in that bottom section from villagery to wolfy (assuming you haven't already ordered them as such)

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Ehh, I can't give much if any credit for calling for the shot. If you're a wolf with dolby there you know that slot's never endgaming. Like, once dolby did their catchup posts and then dipped, there was no giant case against them, just a mutual understanding that that slot was probably a wolf and was definitely gonna get PoE'd. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it.

Ordering the last part of that list is something I'm gonna work on more broadly but don't want to over-focus on right now. You could flip ender and HK for sure though.

Idk I'd tend to think cuth is like the least likely bussers of those 3 just because outside of being on that wagon cuth has felt actually engaged and participating in the game, whereas the other two haven't. Why does cuth stand out to you there?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

@Dobby Why are you town?
Like what's your claim to fame here

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Can I throw it back at you and ask what things could point towards me being town if you like squint or whatever if you can't find anything? Halp me get into your head

I'm really happy with the way I've played this game. Most of my posts have been to try and like see what people's motivations are to doing what they do, howuch solving they're doing etc. And I'm not playing it safe, I think I'm pretty good at imitating toengame as wolf so it's hard for me to point at anything that stands out really because if there was something I'd actively work on removing that difference tbh, but I really want to say I know what to do as wolf, to look towny. I kinda know how to post to be safe enough that I'm consistently middle of the pack so I can get to endgame without it looking weird etc.

I also believe in the cases I've made, I've reevaluate a lot of my reads and actually followed up on the things I've written and I think my genuine will to solve is showing rather than it just being.. faked?

Idk it's not an easy question to answer and it kinda sounds like I'm honking my own horn here but just trying to keep it as real and honest as possible

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

I was thinking the interaction with Dolby after Dolby died making it look like Rask didnt realize that Dolby was dead.

but we could go with that too i suppose

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that's correct lmao. I just read it. GG @Dolby.

sleep is spot on too (I am not his partner lol). I think both of you are town from the ways you read my intereaction with Monstr/Dolby and figured what was going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

Ehh, I can't give much if any credit for calling for the shot. If you're a wolf with dolby there you know that slot's never endgaming. Like, once dolby did their catchup posts and then dipped, there was no giant case against them, just a mutual understanding that that slot was probably a wolf and was definitely gonna get PoE'd. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it.

Ordering the last part of that list is something I'm gonna work on more broadly but don't want to over-focus on right now. You could flip ender and HK for sure though.

Idk I'd tend to think cuth is like the least likely bussers of those 3 just because outside of being on that wagon cuth has felt actually engaged and participating in the game, whereas the other two haven't. Why does cuth stand out to you there?

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rask doesn't make sense. he's the one who set monstr off. he also doesn't vote you at eod yesterday. i'd have to re-read, but i'm not sure he ever even considered you in the flash of the last 10-20 minutes and i don't recall, but i'm not sure he boxed himself in with a v read on you either? i think that's weird for w!rask to do in a world where you are a villager OR a wolf considering ladd's role. surely he just votes you instead of his partner?

I guess i'll temper that a bit because a n3 sorc isn't as strong as a vig or anything, but i still just think w!rask kills you over ladd there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

rask doesn't make sense. he's the one who set monstr off. he also doesn't vote you at eod yesterday. i'd have to re-read, but i'm not sure he ever even considered you in the flash of the last 10-20 minutes and i don't recall, but i'm not sure he boxed himself in with a v read on you either? i think that's weird for w!rask to do in a world where you are a villager OR a wolf considering ladd's role. surely he just votes you instead of his partner?

I guess i'll temper that a bit because a n3 sorc isn't as strong as a vig or anything, but i still just think w!rask kills you over ladd there

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Unless they had disagreements in wolfchat as well :dizzy2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

rask doesn't make sense. he's the one who set monstr off. he also doesn't vote you at eod yesterday. i'd have to re-read, but i'm not sure he ever even considered you in the flash of the last 10-20 minutes and i don't recall, but i'm not sure he boxed himself in with a v read on you either? i think that's weird for w!rask to do in a world where you are a villager OR a wolf considering ladd's role. surely he just votes you instead of his partner?

I guess i'll temper that a bit because a n3 sorc isn't as strong as a vig or anything, but i still just think w!rask kills you over ladd there

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mont i don't think has been out of tune with the game, just low volume initially and he seems to just read the game differently than others? ladd opting to just shield him doesn't feel like a partner shield to me as i expressed a few posts earlier.

cuth i could see most of the 3 just because of some weird interactions between him and ladd. e.g. ladd commenting how cuth finally makes sense to him and cuth responding that ladd being able to understand him when it doesnt even make sense in cuth's head appears slightly manufactured to me but its not super strong. its just the strongest of those 3 IF there is a busser.

I think you already mentioned its odd for wolves to kill on that wagon if it isn't already clear because this poses trouble for wolves down the line potentially when people don't die. i guess that can also be tempered knowing the wolves will have to kill the PRs at some point but /shrug. this is more a thought experiment than anything else since I do think we prob have the last two wolves in the non-ladd voters.

I just really want to bjeve in my cuth read lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

I think you already mentioned its odd for wolves to kill on that wagon if it isn't already clear because this poses trouble for wolves down the line potentially when people don't die. i guess that can also be tempered knowing the wolves will have to kill the PRs at some point but /shrug. this is more a thought experiment than anything else since I do think we prob have the last two wolves in the non-ladd voters.

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Mm I didn't think of that, good point.

But yeah this is just thought experiment stuff; I've already talked about why rask specifically isn't likely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Vote: Ladd

https://i.imgur.com/EeYtIBY.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

vote: ladd

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Hm these are the lqst two votes on ladd

I kinda want to say it looks good for both of them but I'd 100% make that vote if I were wolf

Anyone who's seen me wolf should know that (especially since ladd was doomed anyway) so idk if that's something either of them would do but worth thinking about

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

v
Sunbae

ladd voters
Raskolnikov
cuthillius
Montmorency

villagery and/or spew
zack

EnderWiggin
katze
Sleep


some good, some bad
roro__b
Newcomb
Cape90
hollowkatt


a very quick and rough ordering of where i'm at currently. not ordered within tiers i just moved ppl around in notepad til their clumps made sense

how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves? I could see that a good amount tbh. how often does that bottom 4 list contain 2 wolves that fit with ladd and monstr/dolby? idk yet. i think newcomb and dobby are slightly less possible with ladd for thin reasons. HK may be slightly less possible with monstr/dolby?

Cape i'm not sure. i haven't re-read him yet and i owe that still so this is mostly just a carryover read on him at this point

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I'm literally an innocent child

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Vote: Ladd

https://i.imgur.com/EeYtIBY.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

I'm literally an innocent child

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

peepee poopoo

I am changing my mind on Benneh. I am slow, bear with me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

I'm literally an innocent child

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Y tho

vote: Ender

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i think katze looks better from having pushed for the dolby bomb. i guess she can't know that csargo would actually do it but /shrug

if there's a busser on the ladd wagon i'm inclined to think its cuth over rask/monty but that doesn't feel great

rather than world build, how do you rank people in that bottom section from villagery to wolfy (assuming you haven't already ordered them as such)

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I don't think she should get any credit for that

she was town reading for an imo really weak/stretchy reason, then switched after sunbae and I claimed and were clearly pushing for dolby (both clears voting him, clear bomb target, obvious dead meat at that point)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

I'm literally an innocent child

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uwu

(Yea, I realized that shortly after making this post)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

I don't think she should get any credit for that

she was town reading for an imo really weak/stretchy reason, then switched after sunbae and I claimed and were clearly pushing for dolby (both clears voting him, clear bomb target, obvious dead meat at that point)

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mm fair enough. i kinda skimmed last night's posts after waking up today hence me missing your claim post and a few other things

I think sleep is villa, newcomb too. I had these slots linked to katze smh but can't remember why lol. If someone can help me.

:smash:: ladd, Dolby

:thumbsup:: Winston, Csargoat

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

:2thumbsup:: Raskol, cuth, zack, sleep, newcomb, Sunbae

:bow:: monty, dobby, Cape, Benneh

:inquisitive:: katze, HK

:whip:: Ender

I won't take questions about this.

actually thinking katze/HK isn't a thing because of their disagreement in meta reading me prior to Dolby's flip (I think HK shaded me prior to it?)

actually rereading the end of HK's iso it feels like he was leaning wolf on me and changed his mind after Dolby's flip. not really helping though lol. I really got the idea he was in to shade me though before that but maybe I am tinfoiling or he was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

vote: dolby

my bones say this is the chop

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oh, HK is town. good good.

lol me. I am down to katze and Ender. I'll let that marinate

I wants a bomb

I also might be tunneled on ho but I feel like I've been trying to evaluate the slot fairly but there's still things that just feel bad/wolfy and don't make sense that I don't just want to let go

Despite that dolby vote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

I wants a bomb

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who do u want to take with you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

who do u want to take with you?

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I don't know yet tbh, I'm just hanging out in thread without having read back qnd it's hard to evolve my reads this way, I want to do that on pc and Dip into my notes and that's not happening here on phone tbh

I still want more ppl to look at hk and see if my stuff on him make sense

Who Posted?
Posts 154
katze
Posts 140
zack
Posts 136
nebjiamn
Posts 127
Sleep
Posts 111
Winston Hughes
Posts 110
Sunbae
Posts 103
EnderWiggin
Posts 100
Cuthillius
Posts 89
Newcomb
Posts 85
Cape90
Posts 74
Dobby
Posts 73
Raskolnikov
Posts 53
ladd
Posts 49
hollowkatt
Posts 45
Csargo
Posts 36
Monstrdude
Posts 27
Montmorency
Posts 25
Visor
Posts 12
Dolby
Posts 1
GeneralHankerchief

Sbpbwee

I mean katze is capable of top posting as wolf

I feel like I post constantly but I'm always lower half of Post count

Lolme maybe I shouldn't but I can't help but read into a few of those (both good and bad) kek

hi

ive been having a really bad morning/day so im probably not going to be around but uhm

flip acknowledged, my read there was p bad, zack is absolutely correct that part of me turning around on it was due to the two clears showing distaste in that slot and me realizing that i was basically townreading the entire playerlist to some extent; not gonna defend that

ill probably check in again tomorrow to figure out where my head is at wrt the game (irl)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by katze

hi

ive been having a really bad morning/day so im probably not going to be around but uhm

flip acknowledged, my read there was p bad, zack is absolutely correct that part of me turning around on it was due to the two clears showing distaste in that slot and me realizing that i was basically townreading the entire playerlist to some extent; not gonna defend that

ill probably check in again tomorrow to figure out where my head is at wrt the game (irl)

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Take care fren

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Unless they had disagreements in wolfchat as well :dizzy2:

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the thought of that happening is darkest timeline stuff that i dont really want to contemplate wrt rask in particular right now. but im also cognizant of the fact its entirely possible if monstrs heart was not in the game hed ask to be bussed. so im reticent to give credit to those who were pushing him on day 1

or at least assign towniness solely based on that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sleep

the thought of that happening is darkest timeline stuff that i dont really want to contemplate wrt rask in particular right now. but im also cognizant of the fact its entirely possible if monstrs heart was not in the game hed ask to be bussed. so im reticent to give credit to those who were pushing him on day 1

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Yeah I don't really want to have that play into any reads tbh lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

This one!

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ugh I really feel good about sleep being town

I swear if sleep is mafia this game

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

ugh I really feel good about sleep being town

I swear if sleep is mafia this game

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:inquisitive:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Sunbae
Cuth
Sleep

V/v/v imo

Maaaaaybe zack

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when it comes to this list Dobby

In short, I don't think Sleep is thought processing like wolf would in their shoes. From what I have seen, I believe their thoughts come naturally

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cape90

when it comes to this list Dobby

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I know but that post just seemed weh the way you wrote it lol

Fwiw I do agree sleep looks towny and I prolly won't solve the game based on that list, was just an interesting one coming from a flipped wolf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowkatt

I have no read on Ladd but probably should come up with something. Cuth I think can be town, Monstr I think can be a wolf. Mostly b/c his ISO sucks a lot and by sucks a lot I mean it is entirely too short AND filled with things that read like they're spicy for the sake of being spicy, not actually things he believes in.

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Think this is a decent look for HK; the self awareness to point out the lack of read on a partner in the same sentence you're distancing from a second partner is a little much to imagine as being a real thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

Hm this a villagy post

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Not sure how much I want to read into this but the flat response to sleep's big wall is like... ehh I was gonna say +villa for sleep. Maybe it is a little. I'm just not sure how much I should read into any of monstr's posts given what happened. Like you can't really ascribe normal wolf agenda/valuation/thinking to someone to blew up like that and clearly had some stuff going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrdude

I've gone back and forth on sunbae a fair bit this game but ultimately I think that sunbae as a villager is much more likely to post giant swathes of stream-of-consciousness type posts that just sort of explain what he's feeling at any given moment in the the thread. Contrast this to him as a wolf where I'm pretty sure he's more liable to just say whatever random crap gets any villager launched.

I liked cuthilius' exchange saying that newcomb had a rather tepid take, thought it was kind of bold

Sleep's last post was good + I liked the incredulity that they gave when they came right back at me for saying their posts were wolfy. I mean sure a wolf could easily say "no I don't see why you think that's wolfy" but I feel like most wolves actually have a level of awareness of their posts that makes them more inclined to react to someone saying "you're wolfy" with "yea ok"

Zack I feel like generally tries to ignore me as a wolf but that's like a super thin read

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I do feel like this is +v for sleep. Given you have a flipped wolf talking about a confirmed v in Sunbae here, just like, the way he explains it, the length of the paragraph, the cadence of it, is very similar to what he does in the 3rd paragraph for sleep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nebjiamn

talk to me about this?

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the ender and ladd back and forth never had any real bite to it imo, I think it was just distancing/theater. They both found excuses to move off to other targets which they pushed much harder (ladd --> sleep, ender --> newcomb).

I think newcomb is probably a villager, in which case ender looks pretty bad. Him and ladd sussed each other, but ender found a way to go super hard in the paint focusing on newcomb with a progression that didn't seem particularly believable to me.

Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt


9. EnderWiggin
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

Zack, Sunbae - innocent children :dancinglock:

cuth, rask - not really worth considering today imo (especially rask with the monstr interactions)

benneh, newcomb, sleep - not very interested in going here today either :smoking:

monty, roro, cape, HK - possible wolves but not worth pursuing yet, non-trivial reasons to think they are town

katze - talked about this a little already, sunbae seemed to agree with this placement, some nice posts but some sketch stuff too, can't take them off the table :undecided:

ender - the person who is left and I don't think has been villagy, sorry cuth :deal:

ignore that second grouping of names with the numbers, I copied the playerlist and was eliminating names as I moved down, forgot to delete before posting

I really don't trust monty at all for the record

need more from him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

the ender and ladd back and forth never had any real bite to it imo, I think it was just distancing/theater. They both found excuses to move off to other targets which they pushed much harder (ladd --> sleep, ender --> newcomb).

I think newcomb is probably a villager, in which case ender looks pretty bad. Him and ladd sussed each other, but ender found a way to go super hard in the paint focusing on newcomb with a progression that didn't seem particularly believable to me.

Alive: (13/17)
1. zack
2. nebjiamn
3. cuthillius
6. Raskolnikov
7. Newcomb
9. EnderWiggin
10. Sunbae
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
15. Sleep
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt


9. EnderWiggin
11. Montmorency
12. roro__b
14. katze
16. Cape90
17. hollowkatt

Zack, Sunbae - innocent children :dancinglock:

cuth, rask - not really worth considering today imo (especially rask with the monstr interactions)

benneh, newcomb, sleep - not very interested in going here today either :smoking:

monty, roro, cape, HK - possible wolves but not worth pursuing yet, non-trivial reasons to think they are town

katze - talked about this a little already, sunbae seemed to agree with this placement, some nice posts but some sketch stuff too, can't take them off the table :undecided:

ender - the person who is left and I don't think has been villagy, sorry cuth :deal:

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actually yes i agree with most of this (can i get a two worder on why you are IC because i prolly missed that unless it was a joke)

im clearly ic as well

cape i want to look into again, same with monty which is the one ive looked into the least. HK ive talked about. ender i had a lot of +es yesterday but i cant remember them today. Katze is a tough one tbh, i liked them in the newc thing but the rest of their posts have just existed and looked alright and i havent found anything thats stood out (i still have several pages ive just skipped reading that ill deal with tomorrow hopefully)

bruh

I claimed town backup and it has been mentioned ITT a bunch of times

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Newcomb wagon - Ender/katze/Sleep - upper-null (Sleep might trend down, or lock clear if NC scum)
Sunbae upper-null
Dobby, Cape, HK, NC null
Zack, Csargo, Dolby lower-null
Nebbie scum


Cuth, I think I'll lock ya for a couple days, but not permanently given how you discussed ladd's slot throughout the day. Winston, Rask, you get a day pass, and probably a lock clear if NC is scum. Hopefully Star Trek II is reprising, except with only the good parts. It's hard to believe, but not a single one of you was in Star Trek II (though HK was probably aware of it, and he participated in the Mario 2 debacle).

Nebbie, I believe you could be the Mafia Stalker now.

Zack, are you sure you're not with Csargo? Although I do note that while I was slanking, ladd offered some kind of wack analysis about me being a "perfectly competent wolf" supposedly based on having read all my games or something - and you correctly identified this as townspewing me (see my walls).

It's is extremely likely that there was at least one other maf among the many protowagons around EOD, and potentially even among Newcomb or Rask. Overlooking D1 scum multiwagons has killed a successful town more than once in my relatively-recent experience. And with this many competing wagons, it's at least 95%, the details of which will always have to be guessed when forming plausible wagonomics associations moving forward.

@ both Zack and HK: Zack, in Mass Effect you hosted as Dolby was consensus scum-read and sacrificed (Logic sub). HK, you were town with me in Mario 2 when Dolby subbed in late onto a winning Mafia team and easily sealed the deal.
Figure out if he's clearable today pl0x.

Anyway, for doing all the things and ranking Zack/Ladd/Newcomb highly, Vote: Nebbie

Let the anointed please suicide Newcomb today, unless you're maf. It provides excellent info on Sleep, katze, Winston, and Rask at a minimum.

****

I expected Cuth to die, but OK.

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lumps dolby in with two confirmed villas (me, csargo) and a probable one (benneh) then says to bomb newcomb and never really expands on nor pushes the dolby thing at all.

the section encouraging everyone to think the wagons were w/w/v seems more like agenda-pushing than a genuine thought? I mean he clears rask without even considering that rask was a wolf wagon, even though he spends a paragraph talking about multiple wolf wagons being probable and wants to bomb newcomb into the stone age.

the reason for voting benneh seems silly, me and newcomb hadn't even flipped, talk about jumping to conclusions.

worth noting monty shouldn't really be getting credit for ladd vote, he tried to unvote but it was past the deadline

he kinda just seems like a wolf to me? ~:handball:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

lumps dolby in with two confirmed villas (me, csargo) and a probable one (benneh) then says to bomb newcomb and never really expands on nor pushes the dolby thing at all.

the section encouraging everyone to think the wagons were w/w/v seems more like agenda-pushing than a genuine thought? I mean he clears rask without even considering that rask was a wolf wagon, even though he spends a paragraph talking about multiple wolf wagons being probable and wants to bomb newcomb into the stone age.

the reason for voting benneh seems silly, me and newcomb hadn't even flipped, talk about jumping to conclusions.

worth noting monty shouldn't really be getting credit for ladd vote, he tried to unvote but it was past the deadline

he kinda just seems like a wolf to me? ~:handball:

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without even considering that rask could have been a wolf wagon*

edited by way of post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

I had Monstr lower-null.



That's where they belong, except the heroes of the day (Rask and Cuth).

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like from monty's POV, rask was a wagon against ladd (wolf) and newcomb (who monty seems to think is a wolf) and even expressed he didn't want to vote ladd and was basically doing it out of survival. monty spent time encouraging everyone to consider the possibility of multiple wolves being wagoned

but monty just ... blithely clears rask?

seems like he knows rask is a villager and since rask voted ladd, monty wasn't considering that he wasn't really clear from an uninformed POV

the perspective doesn't add up iyam

:coffeenews:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

bruh

I claimed town backup and it has been mentioned ITT a bunch of times

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well i missed it bruh btu to be honest

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

poop.

im guessing sorcerer acts before mafia nk so you are basically just vt right

I'm not even sure why he's so insistent on bombing Newcomb and him being a wolf, it's not really explained other than "It's is extremely likely that there was at least one other maf among the many protowagons around EOD" unless I missed it. This read doesn't seem developed, more like latching onto the thread temperature and anticipating the direction it would be headed to encourage town to kill a villager.

I have no reason to think Ender and Monty can't be teamed off the top of my head, I don't think Newcomb listed them in his not w/w section either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Newcomb

Oh yeah this was gonna be part of that too, just pretend those comments are fleshed out into appropriately Newcomb(TM) sounding sentences.

Rough list of antialignments:

Zack/Ender - early fluidity
Sunbae/Zack - wild treatment of me if w/w/w with ladd; careful respect+suspect type posts of each other early D1
Dobby/Sleep - dobby careful treatment + extra detail interacting with cape read, 116
Ender/HK - early antagonism didn't feel fake
Sunbae/HK - 238, timing
Cape/Rask - cape confusing rask for winston with the winston v flip

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nope.

feels weird when these posts are spread out over 40+ minutes but no one else is posting so it looks like I'm just being a spammer, gonna tap out for a bit lol

liking the monty stuff tbh, big i fture

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

well i missed it bruh btu to be honest

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

poop.

im guessing sorcerer acts before mafia nk so you are basically just vt right

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VT? No. I am an innocent child. :square:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

feels weird when these posts are spread out over 40+ minutes but no one else is posting so it looks like I'm just being a spammer, gonna tap out for a bit lol

---

ive been lurking but ive kind of just been watching

i had written stuff on ender, honestly in my heart it did not feel like w/w interactions with ladd, i cant see it the way you do

but he has had one post since sod, and it was this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

I don't have a vest and I am sad.

---

and like...i dont want to necessarily take absence as a sign of guilt because people can have stuff going on that we have no idea about

but its kind of ??? to me

also ladd started shaded me after my votes on d1 had been ender and monty

:creep:

ender said he had a migraine, I don't think his absence is alignment-related.

he's aussie i believe, should probably be around before too long if he's feeling better (~:grouphug:, also ~:grouphug: to katze since I didn't respond to that earlier)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zack

ender said he had a migraine, I don't think his absence is alignment-related.

he's aussie i believe, should probably be around before too long if he's feeling better (~:grouphug:, also ~:grouphug: to katze since I didn't respond to that earlier)

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ah ok

yeah just kind of...want to hear from him today

Driving by to just say csargoat. Hope you were cool with being chosen and you did great.

I've read the stuff today. Going to digest everything and drop back in overnight to give my general headspace for the game.

My biggest thought as of this moment is that nothing in this game that we've learned has surprised me. I thought Zack was a villager, he's now clear. I thought csargo was a villager and he crushed the vest. I thought Monstr was a wolf and Dolby's catch up was weak and the slot flipped wolf. I thought Ladd was wolfy and he flipped wolf. So I think the best course of action is to just continue on making reads based on who is trying to solve the game vs who is just trying to force things until something makes us think the game is more difficult than that.

It gets very easy in these games to start leveling yourself and expect the wolves to be playing at a 400IQ with a bunch of master plans and keep you from trusting anyone. Yet most often these games just result in "the list is full of great villagers and the villagers make themselves obvious enough that the game can get poe'd pretty cleanly".

Just keep it simple baby.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Benneh's post #42 I took as a meme but I guess it worked to get some people into the game?

Sunbae calling themselves bad in #47 is a lie

ladd entering the game with #63 where he pops out a list of 5 reads is pretty uh let's call it impressive but my gut is poking at me to tell you i slight w lean that because it's... pretty much based on rvs stuff and dishing out reads or even a list like that feels more like "i should be in character so let me do this yeeeee". But yeah i blame my gut for this one.

EnderWiggins post #69 (nice) also had me thinking, because it's talking about how wolves usually behave early on but i feel like it's only situationally applicable and very much a "this is the consensus thought on how wolves play" but also, in a playerlist like this, pretty much everyone can just play the system and statements like that just end up being... words tbh.

---

The ladd read I think looks good for dobby. The "in character" bit especially is just a bit pointed to say to your partner I think.

Our approach now should be focused on clean up.

We have 4 known villagers and 2 known wolves, one of which was wolf KP. Let's work through various worlds, potential pairs, anti-allied people, and squeeze em out.

And we're well on our way to doing that already. Posting today has been very good for the most part.

Welcome to your new and improved Ender, Version.2:

* Now with less migraines.

I'm gonna heads up that I have read very little of D2 and my focus will be catching up on that for the next... Few hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

Can I throw it back at you and ask what things could point towards me being town if you like squint or whatever if you can't find anything? Halp me get into your head

I'm really happy with the way I've played this game. Most of my posts have been to try and like see what people's motivations are to doing what they do, howuch solving they're doing etc. And I'm not playing it safe, I think I'm pretty good at imitating toengame as wolf so it's hard for me to point at anything that stands out really because if there was something I'd actively work on removing that difference tbh, but I really want to say I know what to do as wolf, to look towny. I kinda know how to post to be safe enough that I'm consistently middle of the pack so I can get to endgame without it looking weird etc.

I also believe in the cases I've made, I've reevaluate a lot of my reads and actually followed up on the things I've written and I think my genuine will to solve is showing rather than it just being.. faked?

Idk it's not an easy question to answer and it kinda sounds like I'm honking my own horn here but just trying to keep it as real and honest as possible

---

Why Dobby could be town, an exercise in expanding my mind:

1. It's pretty early to sus on Ladd here but Dobby does it. No wolf at this point is super concerned with positioning nor is there any kind of indication that Ladd could potentially be at risk here. While it's a safe position for a wolf to take, drawing attention to the position by including it as one of only four stated positions I think is risky. Ladd would need to go over quickly (basically D1) for the read to not look like TMI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Benneh's post #42 I took as a meme but I guess it worked to get some people into the game?

Sunbae calling themselves bad in #47 is a lie

ladd entering the game with #63 where he pops out a list of 5 reads is pretty uh let's call it impressive but my gut is poking at me to tell you i slight w lean that because it's... pretty much based on rvs stuff and dishing out reads or even a list like that feels more like "i should be in character so let me do this yeeeee". But yeah i blame my gut for this one.

EnderWiggins post #69 (nice) also had me thinking, because it's talking about how wolves usually behave early on but i feel like it's only situationally applicable and very much a "this is the consensus thought on how wolves play" but also, in a playerlist like this, pretty much everyone can just play the system and statements like that just end up being... words tbh.

---

unfortunately this is it.

I've gone through the rest of your ISO and frankly I'd kill you for it. It's not super great. Like the post I'm replying to and the post I quoted above are your towniest posts to me. The rest are kinda meh with quite a few "wtf" thrown in there, specifically when addressing me/your read on me.

Like these:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

Vote: Hollowkatt

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i still like hk

can you point me to why you don't?

(and apologies for my slackness if you already did)

---

I had some posts but am on phone now and out so won't til eod, but generally the biggest feeling of "I don't believe that this is what he believes" in the game

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so it's mostly gut?

---

No, I wrote a pretty extensive post about the type of reasoning he used and while I haven't pointed out other specific posts to nit full the thread with my catchup but it's been a general ah I don't like this tbh

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hollowkatt

Yeah I can. He feels stilted, like his content is forced, and that he's struggling to get into the groove of the game.
I tend to ego solve and compare what people are doing to what I'd be doing in their positions. This would tangentially apply to cape as well tbh:
If I were a wolf in this player list I'd be extremely concerned with making the towniest posts I could make and trying to fit in with the overall flow of the game so as not to get caught out immediately. Unfortunately when I do that I tend to be really obvs a wolf as I'm basically trying too hard. Ender (and Cape) feel like they're trying too hard.

The downside to ego solving is that other people are not me (I know, this is a shocking revelation) and don't necessarily react to things the same way I would. This isn't stopping me from making the read.



And before someone asks, my "no chop" vote is totally legit. This is a player list I am going to struggle to read and seeing who dies over night if we don't chop anyone might help in solving. Otherwise I'm likely going to just sheep someone I town read that I perceive is smarter than I am, or be on some weird vanity wagon at the end of the day.
So I figured I'd throw out not chopping as an option, see what people think of that, and go from there.

and yeah I'm being serious

---

my thoughts on this is also a tough thing to explain but i feel like there's actually some weight to it.

it's easy to get like, tunnelled in your approach of reading someone, almost confbiasing. Like. Okay, first thing i think when i read ender's post is just this, he does seem to try to force out content, and then i can easily poop out words that add to the initial case i made to make it have some weight to it. This type of read is also... Easily fakeable. It's a tool i use as a wolf, because it's an easy way to play as mafia that looks really towny, and like you've done WORK, and it's a really hard thing to identify as wolfy and push. I feel like this whole post smells of that kind of thing. Add to it the last segment which kind of is a bit hedgy to cover for eventualities where Ender who based on what i've seen now, might very well be an early chop.

So yeah my thoughts on Ender aorn if i'm trying to decide if he's faking it or it's a personality/style of playing thing, is that it seems genuine enough for now and because of it being impossible (unless you know him really well, which i don't but also lolmeta) to judge which one it is, it's also something that a legit read shouldn't be based on. And the read HK is making here is making me :fry: way more tbh.

im not gonna tldr that because it was hard enough to word and prolly still doesnt make sense.

I think monstr is fairly clearly town (i isod him out of curiosity ofc) but i dont want to talk any more about him unless he comes back or smth.

---

I left the bold in there b/c I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion, but the main thing I want to point out are your thoughts on my post here. It's nothing but word salad designed to look smart while not actually saying anything other than, in a nut shell, "this is a post I dobby can make as a wolf therefore it can be from a wolf"

And this is the "extensive post about my reasoning" that you've referenced above

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dobby

i kinda wanna shield sleep

hk and rask are good wagons unless something has majorly changed. csargo idk

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

Vote: raskolnikov

sorcerer target newcomb better, even ladd tbh

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

i really dont want either ladd or newc but i prefer ladd

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None of these posts are good tbh. newcomb was townie enough that he really shouldn't have been run up at all. Raskol sure, I'll buy that. I thought Rask had wolf potential headed into today as well. I think I've been obvs town, your mileage varies.

I feel like the last post quoted here is something I see quite a bit from wolves in general. Basically taking the position of "I don't really want either of these wagons but if I have to choose I'll take X" where X more often than not is a partner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

Lmao wait was dolby wolf

I was pretty sure monstr wouldn't play like that as wolf but I'm also bad at this game, wp csargo

---

dolby flips wolf, I put pressure on monstr D1, you literally do not acknowledge that pressure nor address how I could be partnered with either dolby (who said I could be town) / monstr (who did not acknowledge my existence).

There's also this, which is just not true:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

I saw a comment last night too from hk about me "not playing" or something which is kinda lol, Day 2 I was pretty much top posting, it's a weird approach from the one I pushed the hardest, I wasn't really discrete about it


And the questions about my eod (yes I ctrl f my name because why not), are like, I preferred hk, couldn't get it through, tried rask because those are prolly the two that have pinged me the most - didn't work. If it was between ladd and newcomb I preferred ladd (I want to write by far but that would prolly be an exaggeration, I didn't reflect upon which of those two I wanted dead until the wagons became just those two ppl)

I think benneh is prolly still my top town, and from what I've skimmed cuth looks even better now imo


Idk what else for now, from what I've skimmed I don't think my reads have changed.hugely
@zack peepee poopoo

---

We're in D2 currently, you're not top posting. You weren't top posting D1. Even by vv lax definitions of top posting you're still (checks the ISO list) in the bottom half of post counts. It's whatever though, I don't expect total accuracy, just thought this was interesting to point out.

Then today is just a continuation of yesterday

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dobby

I still think my case on hk is like one of the most hello this is just a wolf, in the game, and really think more people should look at that

Might as well do this again

Vote: hollowkatt

Imma go visit grandma and stuff now, bai

---

Where's re-evaluations? Where's "maybe I'm wrong, I was wrong on monstr/dolby, I didn't want to participate in Ladd and that was wrong, maybe my reads aren't the greatest and I should stop and think"?

I have more respect for your game than to assume you're lost townie here basically.

anyways, vote: dobby might as well put my money where my mouth is.

damn, good post

dobby/monty?

:creep:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunbae

And once that questioning started, Ender shifted me really far down the list with some caveat of whatever my explanation was pending.

My response was ?I'm not doing that.?, the pressure on me just kind of dissipated, and then Ender said something like I was a villager and they were trying to trap me or goad me into making up and excuse as a wolf while ?lol no? was the answer ?they were hoping for?.

It feels slimy and opportunistic to me.

---

Okay I'm going to break this out of my long catchup post because I want to address this.

1. I point out multiple times during D1 that wolves tend to overexplain early because they feel the need to justify their reads.

If you look in my ISO I'm 90% sure I've vocalised this at least twice on D1. Because while it's not an 100% read, if I poke where the overexplanations are it's usually a good start. (Eventually this will be a dead read but it hasn't proven yet.)

With you I approached a very weird sequence as if I sussed it heavily and said "If you don't have an explanation", this is kind of a pressure that wolves respond badly to because, as a good old player once said, "Inconsistency is the goblin of wolfy minds." Wolves hate being inconsistent in their attempts to play unless they're good enough to understand that.

2. Why is pressuring someone to give an answer when you don't expect them to have one "slimy and opportunistic"? If you're talking about the way it reacted to the content around you, well sure you can sus me for that but I ain't got control of that so meh.

I don't think it's a bad play.

In fact I think it's a good play. And I'll defend that.

Cuth you've had a couple strong reads that I don't really grasp the core of. Cape and Ender both being strong v for you.

Where does that strength come from? I can ask in a different way if you want, I know that's kind of a broad way of asking.

#1149

I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?

I kinda like Sleep's daystart in general.

#1171

I'm in confbias territory now but like, this post is a post I can see wolf!Newcomb making after not thinking Ladd was in danger at EOD and then the flashwagon on his partner appears.

-- I'm going to point out that it looks like Dolby entered today to try and pocket me.

#1205

As of this post I'm pretty sure Neb/NC are unpaired.

#1210

I'll actually have to check this after I'm done catching up. If Zack is right and Ladd really didn't defend Newc at all and WAS around after I dropped case and pushed, it might actually be signs pointing in the "I'm wrong" direction.

#1230

If I am wrong on Newc is this the angle that I was pocketed at? (Talking about Sleep not Zack)

#1233

Ladd/Sleep/HK/? =P

#1236

Neb comes to mind immediately, I'd have to think about this more for other names.

#1247

If it's Cape and Newc as the other two wolves this post becomes more hilarious. (Both unflipped wolves basically templated the same opener today.)

Kinda want to unpair Cape/Neb for 1257/1258

#1260

Is it a bad read if I call this a town post? Legit seems to be dismissive/annoyed at Dolby before he flipped. Might be a bad read but I'm actually pretty confident in it.

1263/1264 are mildly wolf leaning IMO for Neb

#1272

In my defense I hadn't seen your post saying the same thing yet =P

#1281

I think this post never comes from w/v worlds for Newc/Neb. Or not w!Newcomb/V!Neb worlds. If Newcomb flips red I am willing to bet anything that Neb flips red too.

#1284

That post is NAI. I stand by the reads I do use.

Is it bad that I read Newc lashing out at Zack as possibly towny? Probably yes.

#1330

This is actually a mildly convincing take lmao.

#1411

This is a pretty ballsy post for a wolf to make tbh. I kinda like it.

#1426

Dare I say this looks good for Newcomb? Dare I?

Rask's catchup is meh but also probably not AI.

Dobby's catchup is kinda meh. Also I believe Rask's "Oh Dolby is mafia" more than Dobby's.

I like Benneh's reads in the next sequence (Not at all because he calls me town what are you talking about)

#1500

Derp tell denied.

The rest I'm kinda vagueish on as my brain is struggling to keep going.

I didn't see anything particularly AI but need to dig into the posting a bit more.

--

Thus concludes my lacklustre wall of returns.

@Sleep

I had a migraine yesterday. Expect me to be around and posting today.

I'll tell you straight up that if you look at any game I've played on this site or others then you'll find I have no issues posting no matter my alignment. If I'm out of thread it is always due to irl. Yesterday thinking was painful, so I spent 90% of the day in bed.

Today you'll have me around intermittently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

@Sleep

I had a migraine yesterday. Expect me to be around and posting today.

I'll tell you straight up that if you look at any game I've played on this site or others then you'll find I have no issues posting no matter my alignment. If I'm out of thread it is always due to irl. Yesterday thinking was painful, so I spent 90% of the day in bed.

Today you'll have me around intermittently.

---

yeah i was just confused, glad to hear you're feeling better

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleep

yeah i was just confused, glad to hear you're feeling better

---

I'm glad I'm feeling better too =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

#1149

I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?

I kinda like Sleep's daystart in general.

#1171

I'm in confbias territory now but like, this post is a post I can see wolf!Newcomb making after not thinking Ladd was in danger at EOD and then the flashwagon on his partner appears.

-- I'm going to point out that it looks like Dolby entered today to try and pocket me.

#1205

As of this post I'm pretty sure Neb/NC are unpaired.

#1210

I'll actually have to check this after I'm done catching up. If Zack is right and Ladd really didn't defend Newc at all and WAS around after I dropped case and pushed, it might actually be signs pointing in the "I'm wrong" direction.

#1230

If I am wrong on Newc is this the angle that I was pocketed at? (Talking about Sleep not Zack)

#1233

Ladd/Sleep/HK/? =P

#1236

Neb comes to mind immediately, I'd have to think about this more for other names.

#1247

If it's Cape and Newc as the other two wolves this post becomes more hilarious. (Both unflipped wolves basically templated the same opener today.)

Kinda want to unpair Cape/Neb for 1257/1258

#1260

Is it a bad read if I call this a town post? Legit seems to be dismissive/annoyed at Dolby before he flipped. Might be a bad read but I'm actually pretty confident in it.

1263/1264 are mildly wolf leaning IMO for Neb

#1272

In my defense I hadn't seen your post saying the same thing yet =P

#1281

I think this post never comes from w/v worlds for Newc/Neb. Or not w!Newcomb/V!Neb worlds. If Newcomb flips red I am willing to bet anything that Neb flips red too.

#1284

That post is NAI. I stand by the reads I do use.

Is it bad that I read Newc lashing out at Zack as possibly towny? Probably yes.

#1330

This is actually a mildly convincing take lmao.

#1411

This is a pretty ballsy post for a wolf to make tbh. I kinda like it.

#1426

Dare I say this looks good for Newcomb? Dare I?

Rask's catchup is meh but also probably not AI.

Dobby's catchup is kinda meh. Also I believe Rask's "Oh Dolby is mafia" more than Dobby's.

I like Benneh's reads in the next sequence (Not at all because he calls me town what are you talking about)

#1500

Derp tell denied.

The rest I'm kinda vagueish on as my brain is struggling to keep going.

I didn't see anything particularly AI but need to dig into the posting a bit more.

--

Thus concludes my lacklustre wall of returns.

---

curious how you go from “newc and neb are unpaired” into me making the most sense on a newc/Dolby team into me and newc being w/w in all worlds where newc flips red?

I don’t see progression for it in the post so forgive me for the boring self-centered questions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnderWiggin

#1149

I actually like this post. Bar the mild "Oh Cuth didn't die?" derptell which feels fake. But also wagon position on Ladd was probably good?

---

You say you like the post without explanation and then criticize part of it as feeling fake. Why do you like the post?

What do you think of Monty trying to unvote ladd?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

curious how you go from ?newc and neb are unpaired? into me making the most sense on a newc/Dolby team into me and newc being w/w in all worlds where newc flips red?

I don?t see progression for it in the post so forgive me for the boring self-centered questions

---

The end result is "Actually is Neb and Newc town?"

But that was mostly just my unfiltered reactions when I had a specific take. I haven't properly like, homogenised my world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zack

You say you like the post without explanation and then criticize part of it as feeling fake. Why do you like the post?

What do you think of Monty trying to unvote ladd?

---

The whole "Overlooking scum multiwagons" bit and the fact that it's obviously work prepared overnight. Also other than your placement on it I kinda vibed with the order of the list.

The unvote... I don't know how I feel about it.

Would w!Monty try to unvote at the last second to put w!Ladd in rand?

Like I guess if he gets lucky and Ladd survives then it could work out, but otherwise it just feels like a move I don't see wolves make.

Also town do dumb faked derptells too which is why that note didn't undermine the post