Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

@Dp101, what do you think between Manasi, Barto, and Logic? Of course I tried to keep you and the latter two from tearing at each other's throats, but in the end you and Barto (and the rest) POEd Logic.

Is Logic now acting like Logic the round before his lynch then, or is it different conforming to Pizza's observations?

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Firstly, I wouldn’t exactly describe my r actions towards logic and Barto tearing st their throats, but anyway, I feel that out of those 3, the lynch order should be Logic > Barto > Manasi, with manasi basically being my null benchmark at this point. Barto’s outright refusal to read the thread feels like a new level of anti-town behaviour from him, and I’m starting to agree with Pizza on Logic. However, I want to emphasise here that I am not entirely sure how to read logic, and so my vote is more sheeping than anything else. Could you elaborate as to what you mean by “Logic the round before his lynch”? Are you referring to a past game here? Or do you think logic is playling like this because he thinks he is going to get lynched? I really can’t parse your statement.

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Originally Posted by Zack

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I also thought lulz, pizza. But I don't think so, considering he's not rubbing his nipples to the sweet, sweet sound of strategic zero posting.

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Why make an alt if you don't want to play a game with a relatively new group of people and a fresh meta?

He'd totally just sign up as lulz if he was gonna do that. He's followed me to various forums before (Giraffe, for example) and been lulz.

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Originally Posted by Dp101

Firstly, I wouldn’t exactly describe my r actions towards logic and Barto tearing st their throats, but anyway, I feel that out of those 3, the lynch order should be Logic > Barto > Manasi, with manasi basically being my null benchmark at this point. Barto’s outright refusal to read the thread feels like a new level of anti-town behaviour from him, and I’m starting to agree with Pizza on Logic. However, I want to emphasise here that I am not entirely sure how to read logic, and so my vote is more sheeping than anything else. Could you elaborate as to what you mean by “Logic the round before his lynch”? Are you referring to a past game here? Or do you think logic is playling like this because he thinks he is going to get lynched? I really can’t parse your statement.

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Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.

I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.

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Originally Posted by Dp101

Firstly, I wouldn’t exactly describe my r actions towards logic and Barto tearing st their throats, but anyway, I feel that out of those 3, the lynch order should be Logic > Barto > Manasi, with manasi basically being my null benchmark at this point. Barto’s outright refusal to read the thread feels like a new level of anti-town behaviour from him, and I’m starting to agree with Pizza on Logic. However, I want to emphasise here that I am not entirely sure how to read logic, and so my vote is more sheeping than anything else. Could you elaborate as to what you mean by “Logic the round before his lynch”? Are you referring to a past game here? Or do you think logic is playling like this because he thinks he is going to get lynched? I really can’t parse your statement.

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I mentioned that in the two games he was town for a length of time, Pokemon and XCOM, he opened with a more confident and independent style, but over time lost confidence up to the point he was lynched in the endgame. Setting aside those specific endgame conditions of frustration and paranoia, I was wondering if Logic looked to you very different from opening-game town Logic, which means lean scum, or if he reminds you of something in end-game town Logic, which potentially means town Logic fumbling the entrance to this game.

This questions goes for Csargo and Barto as well, I guess. You were the XCOM endgame Big Three.

We'll see with Barto. Another interpretation is, he's making friends with the new people.

Logic can no more change his meta than I can stop being Askthepizzaguy. I haven't even bothered playing much under alts and I can't even keep up roleplaying that I want to do, eventually I still come out.

This game is one where your own nature can be used against you. It can exonerate or condemn you and unless you're amorphous personality-wise, you can get trapped by it.

Because at the time when I did my analysis clearing Logic that game, it was more on the basis of POE than gamecourse content or tone.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.

I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.

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So what about his play makes him not just a town PR? The vanishing from the thread your describe seems to categorise his play this game fairly well, and personally, that’s been a far larger element of his play than any slips early game. Maybe I should reread the start.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Logic is straightforward. He can't hide in plain sight when he's a town power role, he just kind of vanishes. He has real thoughts as town that people sometimes dismiss for being too A ---> B, and as scum he's just kinda... like this. Not confident enough to battle, more liable to undercut or smudge, passive aggressive stuff. No depth, generic posts, catchable under pressure.

I don't think he can break out of this pattern since he's been at this for years. Logic is who he is. He needs someone who knows how to read him when he's town otherwise he's mislynch bait. He can hide under the radar if you don't push him as scum. He tenses up when he's got a town pr or scum role.

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I'm confused, logic has only played a few games here

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Originally Posted by Dp101

So what about his play makes him not just a town PR? The vanishing from the thread your describe seems to categorise his play this game fairly well, and personally, that’s been a far larger element of his play than any slips early game. Maybe I should reread the start.

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Passive aggressive. If he were hiding, he wouldn't be undercutting or even solving.

His intent is malevolent here, not hiding.

He would find someone who won't push back and vote them, and then not post.

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Originally Posted by Zack

I'm confused, logic has only played a few games here

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I played often with him on his home board.

Style is exactly the same and he's a long time player there.

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Originally Posted by Logic

I read his iso. To me, it looks more like a townie toeing the waters on a new group of people than someone with hidden information.

Winston, this... looks odd. It sounds to me like a willingness to lynch pizza, but an admission that you know he's town.

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This post is why Logic is never a town pr here.

This route of smearing Winston is not Logic's usual town fare, and it's not straightforward.

Logic is very straightforward.

This is Logic implying Winston is scum in a roundabout way, hands off. That's not his MO as town, and definitely not as a town power role.

Iso him in XCOM or any game he was town.

Find passive aggression and roundabout implications someone is scum, and I'll give you a cookie.

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Iso him in XCOM or any game he was town.

Find passive aggression and roundabout implications someone is scum, and I'll give you a cookie.

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We still got two days

If he doesn't improve, and I'm bored of the long day and want to stab my eyeballs out, maybe I'll take a look

but I get the feeling this is just another jarrema in ikea mafia moment

I'm doing a quick iso of XCOM just to see how right I am about that, even though I know.

I'm on page 14 and he's accused a ton of folks, in every single case, it has been level one, what he says is what he means, unambiguous, not passive aggressive, directly straightforward suspicion. I think X is scum. Upon further analysis, I feel less sure he's scum. And so on.

Logic isn't Logic this game. He's illogical, and that has no place in a chess game. Snap up the loose queen, guys.

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.


I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

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My sympathies.

Seriously. I'm hoping regardless what happens next or your alignment or whatever, you find a way to have fun.

I won't hound you, I've said why I have issues and may vote you in a future round. But I'll try not to make the experience bad for you.

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Originally Posted by Fredwood

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.


I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.

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I've been busier and don't actually want to keep up that rate of activity

I did that in the one game with mtgs on MU that was 72/24. It was exhausting and miserable. Can't go hard in the paint 72 hours straight, it's not healthy for me.

and fwiw Pizza is probably just town

I had a theory earlier, but I think by this point it's clear it's just a theory and not actually applicable

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Originally Posted by Zack

I've been busier and don't actually want to keep up that rate of activity

I did that in the one game with mtgs on MU that was 72/24. It was exhausting and miserable. Can't go hard in the paint 72 hours straight, it's not healthy for me.

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I was more talking about your seeming annoyed by Bart and Pizza which did mess with the flow and content you had earlier. I'm not demanding any type of activity, I don't think I've posted 10 times. Still high up in my town, was just explaining why I'd put Slaan ahead of you now in his own tier.

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Originally Posted by Fredwood

I guess the first 72 hours are going to be boring until we keep repeating ourselves about how we're going to lynch Logic, I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus Day 1.

Bart's entrance was sloppy, but I don't think as sloppy as Rein's.

Otherwise I caught up and most of it was Pizza's spam posts, the only other thing is I think I put Slaan solidly at the top of my Town pile. Zack hasn't looked as strong during this catchup, but a part of that may be him just being frustrated and bickering with Pizza and Bart. His assessment of Bart's meta is interesting.


I will address the CSargo thing, I wasn't using his last game as a baseline for his read, I was referring specifically to how he defended himself. His responses to pressure have literally been "cool" or a version of "you got me". In that game whenever it came up Csargo is scum he was more playful and snarky. I'm not talking about his activity, or content outside of his reaction to pressure, which I think it's fair to think for it to be consistent no matter the situation. Still in the end I said I didn't think it was a fair baseline for comparison anyway, so DON'T LECTURE ME.

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He literally quoted my post and said weak. How should I have responded to that?

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Originally Posted by Csargo

He literally quoted my post and said weak. How should I have responded to that?

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muscle emoji

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Originally Posted by Csargo

He literally quoted my post and said weak. How should I have responded to that?

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Lol I already retracted the assessment because I looked at the play and felt it wasn't applicable and wasn't using it as a basis to read you. I literally said what I thought in the moment and then researched. I got lectured twice on the statement even though I came to the same conclusion that people were lecturing me on.

Literally, Literal, Laterally, deleterious, latissimus dorsi.

Ok I think I've gotten it out of my system

So I ISO'd Logic once more to reconsider my case on him... I noticed how pizza basically immediatly went after him and tunneled him ever since, starting Post 169 where he calls his opener sloppy althought he just posted about games during rvs which I don't think is AI since we the topic when he came into the thread were video games.

But then there is his townread on me which is just weird as fuck... I mean I was just shitposting around and I can do that regardless of alignment (check the Orchestrated Chaos game where I also just randomly posted at SoD1)... I mean who can't just post small talk as either alignment. He then gives the reason that he thought I just tipped my foot in the water of new peeps here but how is that ever AI from anyone? There went 0 thought into his townread on me and there is no reason for a towny to do so.

So yea, I'm fine with a Logic lynch today.. in fact let me help

Vote: Logic

Also I'm gonna put Monty back in my null pile after his last couple of posts, they seemed pretty good

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Yeah off the cuff.

Will do because you're asking me for it.

To summarize my position, and this is rough and sloppy and doesn't contain jokes:

White pieces, top 6 are my town until they get kicked out, rest are prospects for town I am not solid on, need more analysis. In this order top down

1. Pizza
2. Zack
3. reinoe
4. dp101
5. Winston
6. GH
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7. choxorn
8. Slaan
9. Kage
10. Monty

Unknown:
Xiahou, probably town by odds, if I had to guess the slot based on reading the room.
Cuth, guess town. Not sure though.
Fredwood, no idea. Let's see later.
Barto, guess wolf if I had to find a fourth.

Black pieces:
1. Logic, easily
2. There is definitely either one or two black pieces inside Csargo and Manasi.

Get all three and you'll get two black pieces minimum, possibly GG. Start with Logic.

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Nah, not really buying this.

For starters I don't think Logic is mafia, it was pretty easy to shade him in the endgame of Pokemon and I'm detecting a lot of the same stuff here.

Secondly you're putting way too much emphasis on a single scumread of yours, half of your townies are simply the people who joined your wagon for goodness sake.

Stop tunneling, spread out, and read the whole game besides your black/white dichotomy on Logic and Csargo to a lesser extent. You're better than this regardless of alignment.

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Originally Posted by Slaan

Vote: Logic

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+ Unvote: Csargo (duno if thats required but just in case)

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

By contrast, this is Logic barely clearing a hurdle Kage put in his path.

That lack of depth and generic thought is too thin for him, it doesn't match the earlier comment. "I don't see Slaan as a wolf" is too definitive in my opinion to be paired with the question of why answered by "He looks like a townie in a new group of people".

That's paper thin. As is his entire facade. Lynch Logic today always.

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Okay your Kage post was better, but I think you're still tunneling/lacking context. Kage is Kage, Logic is Logic, and one of them is definitely more naturally uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by Csargo

You'd be right that I'm annoyed/not enjoying this game pizza. I'm busy with school/work, so I'm super tired all the time now. I'm not entirely sure what happened with the Zack thing initially, I didn't think I contradicted myself, but such is life. It spiraled after that, I'm just not having a good time.

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Who do you currently look at being mafia? Lets ignore everything that happened so far for now with you and lets look forward together? :)

FINALLY, a dissenting opinion about Logic.