Representative Democracy [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

How's that? You mean the vote? That's the new D1 tradition between BSmith and Al Sips I believe, since the events of Futuramafia. They vote each other.

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Oh, ok. That makes more sense.

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Originally Posted by Renata

vote: gh

I guess? There's just no there there for me. He hasn't even tried to make a case, and that was the one thing I was able to read as genuine from him in last game, before I got led down the garden path into suspecting him. I don't want to believe it'd be that easy, but :shrug:.

I don't have a problem with cuthillius being today's lynch, but from my current position of privilege in not needing to give a flip about how I come off, I'll say it wouldn't shock me if he's a villager. Like, the Sooh progression is truly atrocious, but the Schema part of Visor's case was just plain wrong. Without meta on Cuth, I can't go past that point on someone who's not generally pinging me on tone.

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Either seem fine to me.

(I still think his posts on Schema are bad even if they make more sense then they did before)

Opportunistic, etc.

I mean he town reads Schema for scum reading me, and then sheeps my read on Sooh despite scum reading me and me having dropped the read altogether for hours.

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Originally Posted by Visor

Hey Renata, who do you think is town outside of the (dp/ath/etc) grouping and scum reads?

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I had a list yesterday. I'll find it. It's not too different from yours, mostly just some shifting around in the middle layers.

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Originally Posted by Visor

Either seem fine to me.

(I still think his posts on Schema are bad even if they make more sense then they did before)

Opportunistic, etc.

I mean he town reads Schema for scum reading me, and then sheeps my read on Sooh despite scum reading me and me having dropped the read altogether for hours.

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Yeah, I know. Like I said the Sooh thing is atrocious.

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Originally Posted by Visor

Either seem fine to me.

(I still think his posts on Schema are bad even if they make more sense then they did before)

Opportunistic, etc.

I mean he town reads Schema for scum reading me, and then sheeps my read on Sooh despite scum reading me and me having dropped the read altogether for hours.

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I want people to make a note of those who are pushing my lynch for "not making a case" and yet totally giving people like Csargo/Al Sips/Riedquat etc. a pass when the only difference seems to be that I'm at least posting more. I'm pretty sure at least one of the people on my wagon, especially those who are using this logic, are scum looking for an easy victim.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

I want people to make a note of those who are pushing my lynch for "not making a case" and yet totally giving people like Csargo/Al Sips/Riedquat etc. a pass when the only difference seems to be that I'm at least posting more. I'm pretty sure at least one of the people on my wagon, especially those who are using this logic, are scum looking for an easy victim.

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This was supposed to quote Renata's vote of me and not the Visor post, apologies.

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Originally Posted by Sooh

So you're saying you'll tunnel me until I die?

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i'm saying i'm aiming for your lynch today

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Cuth, of your whole push on Sooh that I saw, this is the part I really have trouble seeing fit in a possi-Towny mindset.

I don't agree with pushing claimed PRs D1, but if you had a really strong feeling she was Scum, Ok.

BUT then why only aim for her lynch D1? Why not tunnel her to death? Explain the logic/what you were thinking/what would have changed for you if she'd survived?

My previous reads list. Move dicetosser up above Jabbz, Zack up a couple slots maybe?, Schema down a couple mostly by virtue of not having anything towny to add since day one.

Oh, move monstrbro up some, but there's still that one post with regards to choxorn that really bugs. I'll see if I can find it.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Just some very basic sorting to see where we stand.

seemingly consensus village

Renata
Cass
Dp
atheotes

personally I like:

Jabbz
Winston

Lots to go on but fear they could fool me:
Visor?
Schema?

Little to go on but nothing's alarming me:
dicetosser1

Confusing as heck
Montmorency

Dubious for tunnel on Jabbz?
Zack

Ought to be townier
GH

Iffy:

Cuthilius
Monstrbro

Damn near nothing to go on at all; these are why you know I'm not the vig:

BSmith
Csargo
Riedquat
El Barto
Al Sipsclar


Individual categories not sorted.

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Originally Posted by Renata

My previous reads list. Move dicetosser up above Jabbz, Zack up a couple slots maybe?, Schema down a couple mostly by virtue of not having anything towny to add since day one.

Oh, move monstrbro up some, but there's still that one post with regards to choxorn that really bugs. I'll see if I can find it.

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I've already posted exactly what it says twice in the thread

I cleared him barely early d1

I have no shame for that. NONE AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME FEEL ANY

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

I want people to make a note of those who are pushing my lynch for "not making a case" and yet totally giving people like Csargo/Al Sips/Riedquat etc. a pass when the only difference seems to be that I'm at least posting more. I'm pretty sure at least one of the people on my wagon, especially those who are using this logic, are scum looking for an easy victim.

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If you're a villager, sure. Who are these people (besides me)? Why wouldn't you be keeping a list yourself?

I don't know what to do with the non-poster crowd. Unless they make a mistake like choxorn did there's usually nothing to go on. I was hoping for a vig, but there's no sign of one.

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Originally Posted by Renata

If you're a villager, sure. Who are these people (besides me)? Why wouldn't you be keeping a list yourself?

I don't know what to do with the non-poster crowd. Unless they make a mistake like choxorn did there's usually nothing to go on. I was hoping for a vig, but there's no sign of one.

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Pretty much the second paragraph sums up my thoughts on them

I mean I kinda felt like there wasn't gonna be a vig given the setup but still

I mean, strictly speaking though if we aren't careful about inactives we will drown in them later in the game

Hankerchief's post about suspecting the people on his wagon is something that lines up with how a villager should act when their wagon starts to pile up but its nothing a competent scum can't do

I've seen glimpses of a villager here and there GH but if you are one I need that one moment that makes me go "yep that's a villager" and I just haven't had one yet

If you are a villager it's me more than it's you, but you haven't exactly given anyone a reason to townread you like just talk about specific people for a bit and interact with me if we can ever find the chance

A big way I get my reads in this game is by constantly interacting with players in hopes of fostering responses that scum are generally incapable of making so

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Originally Posted by Renata

Bold does not compute as possible consecutive thoughts in a post and looks fake. Content is also much more generic reads-y than I remember of town-chox from last game. Wouldn't mind seeing a vote or three on you right now.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Yes. If you've just spent the last couple hours catching up, since when is your first thought when you finally get around to posting, "oh shit I forgot the game started".

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Why would it have to be the first thought to be included? Writing doesn't work the same way as connected speech.

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Um, @Montmorency, why'd you leave this out of your summary on choxorn at start of day? You totally defended him from mean old me.

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

I mean, strictly speaking though if we aren't careful about inactives we will drown in them later in the game

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Or they will have breathing space to be active.

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

how do people itt right now feel about barto

i'd like us to consolidate

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Cuth, why ask people to consolidate on him, but not Chox, who was in a similar position?

At the time you posted this, where were you leaning with Barto and where are you at with him now?

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Originally Posted by Renata

Bold does not compute as possible consecutive thoughts in a post and looks fake. Content is also much more generic reads-y than I remember of town-chox from last game. Wouldn't mind seeing a vote or three on you right now.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Why would it have to be the first thought to be included? Writing doesn't work the same way as connected speech.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Yes. If you've just spent the last couple hours catching up, since when is your first thought when you finally get around to posting, "oh shit I forgot the game started".

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Ah, screw multiquote on this site. That's out of order.. I think there were two comments from Monty, but you get the idea. He picked on my thinking choxorn's wording looked fake, and ignored the other half of my argument.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Um, @Montmorency, why'd you leave this out of your summary on choxorn at start of day? You totally defended him from mean old me.

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Well yeah, that's me. I stand by it. Your case looked better with Choxorn's original early-day post in context, but I didn't recall it at the time and to speak of it now from retrospect isn't useful.

I was wrong. :/

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Or they will have breathing space to be active.

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I GUESS

I've been trying to post less but it's hard for me. This will be my last post for a few hours because I really do want other people to be able to say things

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Originally Posted by Renata

Ah, screw multiquote on this site. That's out of order.. I think there were two comments from Monty, but you get the idea. He picked on my thinking choxorn's wording looked fake, and ignored the other half of my argument.

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I saw something to take issue with. I don't really care about most of the casework people do. If there's something in particular that I can have a thought about, I speak up.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Or they will have breathing space to be active.

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There was breathing space last game but nobody on that list ever got active.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Well yeah, that's me. I stand by it. Your case looked better with Choxorn's original early-day post in context, but I didn't recall it at the time and to speak of it now from retrospect isn't useful.

I was wrong. :/

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You didn't recall it? I'm asking why you didn't include yourself in the big choxorn related post you made at start of day. You dragged out quotes from everybody who ever said a word about him but left out yourself. Why did you make that choice?

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Originally Posted by Renata

There was breathing space last game but nobody on that list ever got active.

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They did? They didn't post up a storm, but in our culture that's active. It's only this past year of Org revival that more than 10 posts per player per game has become the norm.

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Originally Posted by Renata

You didn't recall it? I'm asking why you didn't include yourself in the big choxorn related post you made at start of day. You dragged out quotes from everybody who ever said a word about him but left out yourself. Why did you make that choice?

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Because it isn't important to me.

All of you should come hang out at vgf mafia or vice versa because over there we go like 50 posts per player per game so even a large game would be kinda low volume (I am ldo the exception)

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Originally Posted by Cass_

Cuth, why ask people to consolidate on him, but not Chox, who was in a similar position?

At the time you posted this, where were you leaning with Barto and where are you at with him now?

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@Cuthillius

though I already pointed this out to him when he was around and got no reply

This appears to be the CONSENSUS READS LIST and not my own:

Cleared by D1
Cass
Dp101
Renata
atheotes

Good vibes
Monstrbro
Winston
Visor
Jabbz

Slightly less good vibes
Zack
Schema
dicetosser

Monty
Monty

Low posters
Csargo
Al Sipsclar
Riedquat
BSmith

Lynchbait
El Barto
GH
Cuthilius

Let's assume four scum. I think, contrary to popular belief, we're going to find at least one in some of the upper categories. Not the topmost obviously, unless there was a serious error in thought during the late stages of D1, but I'm guessing 1-2 in the combined "vibes" categories plus Monty, 1 in the low posters, and 1 in the lynchbait. The reason for this is simple: it's never that easy, and the consensus is never 100% accurate.

If the situation does look to be as rosy for town as it appears, then I'd pin down Schema as a possible maf that's higher up the reads list. Her(?) D2 has shown some warning signs:

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Originally Posted by Schema

I'm campaigning for District 1 today.

Vote: Schema

And great call, Cass, choosing Dp's vote. Best choice based on EOD.

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This was never properly explained and Schema instead in future posts went with the handwave defenses of "for now" and "I have reasons".

There is a decent amount of "I'm not scum partners with Cuth" and attacks on Cuth, which could strike me as a maf doing a partial deflection because she perceives the town as attacking the right target but for the wrong reasons. I don't think it's likely that Schema and Cuth are m/m but if Cuth is the lynch and flips town... well.

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Originally Posted by Schema

Tbh I'm pretty half-hearted about this game rn.

Only a townie idiot votes herself rep with a likely town Dp up for candidacy, blah blah.

Vote: Dp101

Not sure how I feel on the Cuth >> GH lynch vote. Would like to hear from @Zack as to why GH isn't a priority for him, since I'm assuming he has some meta to go off.
@Monstrbro, I believe you asked me my thoughts on Winston? I had iffy feels early in the game but he got townier for me. I haven't seen most of his D2 contributions though so I'll run le iso there today.

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Tone feels somewhat off for me (don't like the first paragraph/sentence especially) but this could just be a lack of familiarity with her meta.

Bottom line is though that if the PoE is working but isn't 100% I'm probably shooting Schema.

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This is a little unorthodox, but I would also not complain if one of the extremely high posters was lynched today (I guess Cuth would count for this as well) just to allow the thread to breathe a bit and see if it makes things any more appealing for the low posters to offer their thoughts without them. If they start being able to contribute, great. If not, we should probably start sharpening our scythes or otherwise it will be as Monstrbro said in 1773.

My conversation with Montmorency over choxorn in full and in order.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Why is that? Are you drawing some inference between



and



If so, that seems perfectly "natural" to me.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Yes. If you've just spent the last couple hours catching up, since when is your first thought when you finally get around to posting, "oh shit I forgot the game started".

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Why would it have to be the first thought to be included? Writing doesn't work the same way as connected speech.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Fine. Compare this first post to choxorn's output in Visor's game and tell me what you think.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

I don't get you. Half his posts were fluff, most of the rest declaiming Riedquat, and a bit of content venturing one or two other players. This was over a dozen posts or fewer, in two day phases.

If you are trying to say that he's making too much of an effort in this game at appearing engaged - which you don't seem to be - then even so the posts thus far have been nothing.

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Originally Posted by Renata

That was in fact my contention. Post a few reads and leave choxorn is dubious to me.

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That was a pretty good post, GH

Villagey, even

I think the consensus bottom tier is at best 2/3 scum, and likely 1/3

I mean, even going into the low poster I just don't really believe that those bottom 7 players contain all the remaining wolves. It's that easy like 5% of the time in this game

GH I think consensus would exchange dicetosser and Jabbz in their categories. Nothing but kind words toward dice so far.

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Originally Posted by Cass_

You're not the only one behind. Hello.

Why vote Winston?

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Winston Hughes
BSmith
Visor
Csargo
Riedquat
El Barto
Monstrbro

First on the list, wanted the post yesterday and seems town to me, together with Monstrbro, Visor in third place and I must say Barto in fourth! The rest, a bunch of scummy lurking people, I'm included of course!

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

GH I think consensus would exchange dicetosser and Jabbz in their categories. Nothing but kind words toward dice so far.

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I won't fight you on that, I remember pretty much only Zack beating the drum about Jabbz getting townread and him openly wondering why there's not more suspicion towards him, so that's what caused me to put Jabbz in the upper vibes tier.

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

I mean, even going into the low poster I just don't really believe that those bottom 7 players contain all the remaining wolves. It's that easy like 5% of the time in this game

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Precisely.

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

Serious post indicating some level of reading the OP



"OMG when did the game start?"

???

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

Actually I think that's a reading comprehension fail on my part. Anyway, the biggest thing here I can note is that the district vote on cuth seems like it's w/w if choxorn is a wolf but meaningless if villager

Three posts don't seem particularly alignment indicative but if anything I think the way he's approaching certain people like echoing Zack's sentiment just flow really well so if anything I guess lightly villagery but only barely

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

You have nothing else to say about the thread?

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Monstr's choxorn related posts near end of day one. I'm feeling a bit better about him now. Originally the second quote felt hinky, but in combination with the first ("Huh"? then "oh, never mind") it feels more genuine. Anyway, not lynching here today.

@Monstrbro, you were wholly against cuth's lynch yesterday, repeatedly calling him a villager and so on. Where are you at today and who are you voting for?

So let's say my "consensus PoE isn't correct, jump around the categories" theory wins the day. Shot in the dark, I need to pick out four scum right now, in order:

Cuthilius - wait for flip
> if town, Schema
> if scum, Jabbz
Riedquat, for the hell of it
Jabbs if not already shot, Barto if Jabbz isn't an option

And then Askthepizzaguy to be totally safe.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Because it isn't important to me.

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Don't you think it's misleading to others?

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Originally Posted by Renata

Don't you think it's misleading to others?

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Eh, but it was pretty much contained between us. It doesn't reflect on others, certainly not on Visor whom I had foremost on my mind when putting the post together.

GH, I don't quite understand why Cuth-scum flip makes town Schema likely. Or more than null?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

GH, I don't quite understand why Cuth-scum flip makes town Schema likely. Or more than null?

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I think when Schema was taking heat earlier she was doth protesting too much about a possible M/M linkage between her and Cuth. Struck me as one of those "partially true" defenses.

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There is a decent amount of "I'm not scum partners with Cuth" and attacks on Cuth, which could strike me as a maf doing a partial deflection because she perceives the town as attacking the right target but for the wrong reasons. I don't think it's likely that Schema and Cuth are m/m but if Cuth is the lynch and flips town... well.

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To be more specific, why do you (GH) dismiss the bold, and why does it look like Schema-scum if Cuth is town? What exactly is your relational argument here for opposite alignment, since the relation seems to be the focus?

Why isn't it a wash, either?

GH, would still like you to follow up on your assertion that somebody's who's voting you while ignoring the lower tier of posters is scum. Who is it and why?

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Originally Posted by Renata

GH, would still like you to follow up on your assertion that somebody's who's voting you while ignoring the lower tier of posters is scum. Who is it and why?

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Going by Monty's tally near the top of Page 59, it looks like my current voters thusfar are you, Monstrbro, and Cuth (I could have sworn that there were more but I guess you always assume the outlook's worse for you than it actually is when votes are staring you in the face). Of the three I don't really see you or Monstrbro being scum so I guess it would be Cuth, but I was speaking more of the general concept.

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Originally Posted by Renata

@Monstrbro, you were wholly against cuth's lynch yesterday, repeatedly calling him a villager and so on. Where are you at today and who are you voting for?

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I'm voting for GH right now

I still kinda think cuth is a villager. I've done exactly the same stuff as him before in exactly the same position. The problem is that it seems like so much of the thread wants him dead that my voice doesn't really matter so I don't really know how to approach the situation. I mean, even if he's a villager that continues to survive he will just be a wagon again tomorrow 9/10 times so I'm not really sure my opinion matters

@Montmorency:

I mean, here's your post. You represent it at the outset as being explicitly about "the choxorn affair", and then you talk about everybody involved except yourself. The focus on Visor doesn't come until later.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.

Let's talk about the Choxorn affair in its sequence:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Early game vote for Zack.



Later entry, with town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH, expressing agreement with Zack on subject of role claims.



Final post for the time, a comment on Jabbz' posting.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Renata makes her negative assessment of Choxorn's entry (835).

Immediately after, Visor joins in condemning the Choxorn post.



A few minutes later, he posts a comprehensive reads/leans list, marking Renata as lock town for her drawing attention to Choxorn, and making his own read on Choxorn as "wolfy". He puts Choxorn as lynch candidate above only Cuthilius and El Barto. One of his reads is a frivolous comment on Riedquat.



Then Visor makes an addendum to his reads post, for little value. With Riedquat having only one post at the time, there was no point in speaking like this of him, giving leans. "Possibly town" on a hunch???

"Need a few flips" to feel comfortable with reads is unimpressive in itself, all the more so when he had no problem with discomfort throughout the day or immediately prior to this post.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes remarks that Renata is trending up for her Choxorn case.

Winston finds Renata's flow towny. Winston responds to one of Choxorn's posts with a complaint.



Jabbz responds to Choxorn's lament on textwalls, sticking to his disappointment with Zack.



Cass' notes on Choxorn's main post~.



Monstrbro thinks Renata is town.



Monstrbro comments on Cuth-Chox. Choxorn evaluated overall as barely villagery.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes votes Choxorn.

Sooh's attack on atheotes gets well underway. This casts a small shadow over her. Renata, Zack, and others defend atheotes. Cuthilius is willing to vote Renata for rep over DP101 as more reliable or robust (999).

Cuthilius finds Renata's reads on Monstrbro towny (991).

Schema sees Renata trending up and acknowledges Choxorn's posts, asks for meta on him.



Schema takes full scum lean on Visor.



Cuth speculates on how scumChox votes. Switches back to voting Sooh shortly after.



DP comes in to put himself up for the Rep position and votes Choxorn (1025)

Sooh finally votes atheotes after this, looks to win the position of District Rep (1047).

Schema likes Sooh and doesn't like Atheotes.



Schema votes Renata for rep (1123).

On page 39, Bsmith changes rep vote to Visor ("to test double vote") and Sooh changes rep vote to Zack.

Atheotes petitions Cass on the lynch.



Sooh hardclaims Watcher (1170).

Chox substantively closes the day by showing up EOD to vote Al Sipsclar, who a bit earlier appeared to make ritual-vote on BSmith and said little else (1175).

All of this looks clearing for DP, Cass, and Renata, and overwhelming in favor of Atheotes on top of previous behavior. But rather than assessing others in relation to them, right now the focus is on how Visor relates to it.


Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...

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@Montmorency

Please link me to your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games.

Sincerely,

Madame Chancellor

If anything, I can see the case against cuth because of all my posts earlier today about how he was fighting for sooh to get lynched once the potential wagons became him and choxorn

He didn't seem too enthused about it before then and the switch from sooh came out of nowhere, so him doing it to save himself and a bro from lynch does fit.

If he is a wolf I'm certain barto is a villager, and probably vice versa?

They can still both be villagers too

Cuth wolf flip clears visor/zack 100% pretty much too but if he's a villager i can't really see any benefit from deadding him. No one looks particularly bad from it except MAYBE visor and we don't get much information

Also I am having trouble finding a viable wagon I believe in. I probably just need to get good

vote: Montmorency

I mean, I'm not even sure it makes wolfy sense to brazenly just leave your own interactions with the flipped mafia out of a post that purports to be about interactions with the flipped mafia ,but come on this isn't right.

If I'm over-reacting, fine.

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Originally Posted by Renata

@Montmorency:

I mean, here's your post. You represent it at the outset as being explicitly about "the choxorn affair", and then you talk about everybody involved except yourself. The focus on Visor doesn't come until later.

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It's not comprehensive. Frankly, the exchange between you and me had no bearing on how players related to Choxorn and how that in turn could relate to Visor.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

To be more specific, why do you (GH) dismiss the bold, and why does it look like Schema-scum if Cuth is town? What exactly is your relational argument here for opposite alignment, since the relation seems to be the focus?

Why isn't it a wash, either?

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Let me clear up the bolded sentence you quoted.

(This is a universe where Schema is maf but Cuth is town)

The sequence of votes is that Cuth has votes and Schema's taking some heat.
Schema sees, whether real or imagined, people linking her to Cuth.
Schema wants to defend this, makes a couple of posts saying the link to her and Cuth is off base.
Partial defenses always ring truer than entirely fabricated defenses, Schema takes the tactic that "we can't be M/M because X Y and Z", that part she mostly focuses on is her affiliation with Cuth, that's not a lie (they're not M/M together) so all's good.

~~~~~~

In a universe where Cuth *is* scum then Schema's stated defense makes sense and I don't see them being mafia together.

I really have no idea what to make of Montmorency

He's probably a villager If visor is a wolf and could be (?) A wolf if visor is a villager

I think you should make a reads list monty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Going by Monty's tally near the top of Page 59, it looks like my current voters thusfar are you, Monstrbro, and Cuth (I could have sworn that there were more but I guess you always assume the outlook's worse for you than it actually is when votes are staring you in the face). Of the three I don't really see you or Monstrbro being scum so I guess it would be Cuth, but I was speaking more of the general concept.

---

So you were just warning people off from voting you in general, lest they look scummy for it? :inquisitive:

Eh.

Actually,

@ Everybody

OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cass_

@Montmorency

Please link me to your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games.

Sincerely,

Madame Chancellor

---

Lol, OK.

Town: This one.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...tion-Concluded


Scum: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...Game-Concluded
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...afia-Concluded

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renata

So you were just warning people off from voting you in general, lest they look scummy for it? :inquisitive:

Eh.

---

Stop oversimplifying, you know I've taken a lot more heat in this round than simply getting 2-3 votes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrbro

I really have no idea what to make of Montmorency

He's probably a villager If visor is a wolf and could be (?) A wolf if visor is a villager

I think you should make a reads list monty

---

What about of his own accord?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cass_

Actually,

@ Everybody

OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

---

I'm on phone so not gonna happen

Heroes mash on MU most recent scum

South Park mash on PoG best scum ever

Dragon Age mishmash on pog most recent villager game

And then idk check an mu game or something the database is easy to find. Internet life is probably a good one to look at I posted a lot and was really villagery iirc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

It's not comprehensive. Frankly, the exchange between you and me had no bearing on how players related to Choxorn and how that in turn could relate to Visor.

---

Get off it? :shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cass_

What about of his own accord?

---

He can do what he wants

It was a suggestion jeez

GH: OK, but I don't really see the weight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrbro

I think you should make a reads list monty

---

I don't have anything to add there, so here's something from notes:

Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Jabbz, Monstrbro
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Sooh, Visor
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Lol, OK.

Town: This one.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...tion-Concluded


Scum: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...Game-Concluded
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...afia-Concluded

---

Thank you
Two of each please


This is part of how I'll be making decisions between tied votes each round so it saves me a lot of time if everyone just has links in their ISO here pls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renata

Get off it? :shrug:

---

Is that directed to me, or is it backhanded?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cass_

Actually,

@ Everybody

OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

---

nope

glgl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

I don't have anything to add there, so here's something from notes:

Town: DP101, Cass, Renata, atheotes
Lean Town: Jabbz, Monstrbro
Null: Dice, Winston, El Barto, Sooh, Visor
Lean Scum: Schema, GH, Cuth
Little: BSmith, riedquat, Csargo, Al Sipsclar,

---

How/why does your opinion of dicetosser differ with dice's position in the town consensus meta, as per here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

GH I think consensus would exchange dicetosser and Jabbz in their categories. Nothing but kind words toward dice so far.

---

?

Quote:

---

How/why does your opinion of dicetosser differ with dice's position in the town consensus meta, as per here:

---

Most who expressed a towny vibe for dice got that from his vociferous semantic opposition to my claiming that some players are "clear" or "lock town", and so on.

Could be bias but I don't see it the same way.

Small OOC request: Don't make mentions of me in your posts when you know I'm right here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cass_

Actually,

@ Everybody

OFFICIAL ORDER OF CHANCELLORY BUSINESS

----- Please provide links to ISO's for your two most recent Town and your two most recent Scum games -----

Your applications for residence in this Town will be judged accordingly.

Cheers and thank you.

Madame Chancellor,

On behalf of all of those here who are not Wolfy.

---

Vote: Mutiny

Ooh, homework! @Cass_

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cass, I haven't drawn a wolf role in five years. Here's one game I bookmarked from Straight Dope a few weeks ago when I anticipated getting questions like this. I have no idea if it's representative of how I'd play today; I suspect that in at least some ways it's not. But it's all I have. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...ighlight=mafia I'm playing as "Normal Phase". It's a win in F5, no iso because the site doesn't support it.

Town roles:
Cereal Killers on MU, dead night one as Jailkeeper, boo. Game is still ongoing. http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/...earchid=683808
Visor's Small Mafia game, here. Lost in F6 LYLO. You'll only get the most recent 100 posts. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/searc...archid=2069706
And just because I have to put in something successful, Looney Tunes Alias on MU, win as Mason, survived. My alias was "Granny". http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/...earchid=683813

Not sure what you plan to do with all of this, but gl!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Riedquat, for the hell of it

---

:laugh4: I do agree!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Vote: Mutiny

---

Win, but I'm way too much of a teacher's pet to support you in this GH.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monstrbro

He can do what he wants

It was a suggestion jeez

---

<3 and :P

Connective suggestions/analyses are awesome and insightful as to possibilities, but they don't really give me your opinion/require you to give an actual opinion on a particular player's alignment at the time.

This approach is either:

Towny cos you're trying to see how everything may fit (but it's dangerous cos lol connective-tinfoil-ahead-of-flips-and-time(I-so-hate-that-I-always-fall-into-this-trap-as-well); or

Scummy cos it helps make it look like you're working without pinning you down to a connection between you and said player at a given time.

At this point I have no idea which. Your ISO is huge and scary and full of things like that, silly pokester-always-poking-maybe-never-pushing.

If you're a wolf I want to catch you. If you're Villager I want to have those AHA! moments that you're Town.

I don't care if you hunt for Villagers more, I know that's your style. Just read his ISO and tell me if you'd want him in your Town core, or if he's someone you're not comfortable with and are leaving outside.

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

Pretty please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cass_

<3 and :P

Connective suggestions/analyses are awesome and insightful as to possibilities, but they don't really give me your opinion/require you to give an actual opinion on a particular player's alignment at the time.

This approach is either:

Towny cos you're trying to see how everything may fit (but it's dangerous cos lol connective-tinfoil-ahead-of-flips-and-time(I-so-hate-that-I-always-fall-into-this-trap-as-well); or

Scummy cos it helps make it look like you're working without pinning you down to a connection between you and said player at a given time.

At this point I have no idea which. Your ISO is huge and scary and full of things like that, silly pokester-always-poking-maybe-never-pushing.

If you're a wolf I want to catch you. If you're Villager I want to have those AHA! moments that you're Town.

I don't care if you hunt for Villagers more, I know that's your style. Just read his ISO and tell me if you'd want him in your Town core, or if he's someone you're not comfortable with and are leaving outside.

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

Pretty please.

---

I've done that for several players

For claiming to iso me that's a big oversight

Quote:

---

Mont/other players in contention could end up flipping this phase.

---

Nooo

Renata, most of your ISO links are broken btw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Is that directed to me, or is it backhanded?

---

Directed at you. I don't know if you glossing over your own questioning of my vote on choxorn is something a wolf is more likely to do or not, to be honest -- the motive is obvious; the benefit if caught at it is not -- but it offends my sense of 'all cards on the table' townieness.

Also thats a huge post to just tell me to iso Monty

Is it really necessary to use all those words to say you don't like that I have a player in the null category and then throw baseless shade at me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Nooo

Renata, most of your ISO links are broken btw.

---

Huh. Maybe MU doesn't support that? At any rate, all games are very recent and here/MU (under custom games), so easy to find.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renata

Huh. Maybe MU doesn't support that? At any rate, all games are very recent and here/MU (under custom games), so easy to find.

---

The .Org's software won't link you to past searches, you have to do the searching yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cass_

Unless I have your actual read of them on record I can't judge your stance of them retrospectively.

Even if you can't make a decision on a player's whole alignment, give me post-specific alignment reads. "This post Towny because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...." "This post Scummy because (insert what you're thinking about the matter)...."

---

I am authorizing partial release of my notes pursuant to this query.

Just for D2, mind you.

Town: Monstr calls Monty always villa; Monstr says Visor/Winston never w/w; Monstr kinda think El Barto villager; Monstr likes dicetosser; Monstr leans Barto; Monstr leans Al Sips; Monstr kind think Cuth town;

Scum: Monstr kinda suspect Cuth; Monstr suspects Winston; Monstr thinks there is low-posting deepwolf; Monstr leans on GH; Monstr down on Zack;

So Cass are you actually gonna read any of my other games or were you just asking to ask and then planning on scumreading me anyway?

Because if you're a wolf you're going to die this way jsyk