The Godfather, Part 3 [Concluded]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Vote:Askthepizzaguy

This post explains my suspicions.


And, sorry to be harsh, but if you want to vote for tevash you really have to read his defense.of himself first.

A summary: ATPG's accusations are bogus and filled with poor reasoning. If you read his megapost you'll see most of his arguments are things like "he is also DEAD CENTER in the posting frequency, a PERFECT place for mafia to hide". If you read my post you'll see why his vote for Lord Winter looks more scummy than towny.

Note that despite posting several times in succession before the deadline and pm'ing people pleading his innocent, ATPG completely ignored my accusation and tevash's defense. He doesn't have answers.

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WILL YOU GIVE ME A MINUTE? I even said I hadn't gotten a chance to respond and I needed to leave, and I have precisely the response you're looking for. I was writing it when I was away.

Jeez. :whip: Sasaki... I mean dang fella.

Thank mother logic you guys are finally listening to me. I'd even abstain from voting here, but I need no further stunts to prove myself to you.

Put the nail in that coffin, die Tevash.

Vote: TevashSzat

And look at Reenk's scumminess. So patently obvious. He dies, then I will vote myself every round if you want.

Don't want to edit my vote post to add this. Double post again. :whip:


Here is further response to various individuals, hidden in spoilers as it's an EVIL WALL-O-TEXT!!! SPOOOOOOOOKY!!! SPOOOOOOOKY!!!! FEAR MY TEXT WALLZ!!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

@GSC, post 724-

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"Since I don't trust ATPG's judgement fully, and don't believe him guilty at this stage, I'm going to Vote: Quintus Julius Cicero. You seem to easily accept everything ATPG claims as gospel. Not just this round but almost since the beginning of the game. Due to ATPG's verboseness it would seem to be a particularly easy way for a mafioso to stay beneath the notice of most of the town. Many of your posts tend to be fairly short votes in line with the latest ATPG theory. You have a number of games under your belt and are quite capable of deciding things for yourself and of making capable analysis without relying on another townie (or even mafioso) to do it for you. As such you have raised my suspicions. Its hardly damning I know but...."

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:applause:

Hey, you don't have to blindly follow me. But I applaud your reasoning for voting QJC, it shows that you ARE looking for likely suspects and thinking about reasons why they might be guilty. That, coupled with your rock-solid, silky smooth defense of yourself earlier has totally convinced me of your innocence. Town, this man is not guilty. I am glad I gave up the case against you... it was a shot in the dark against you, based on instinct, but Lord Winter was rightly a suspect too, and there were objectively more reasons to vote him. Not to mention there was a tie that needed breaking.

I like how you're attacking people for what you characterize as blindly following. Very good. Very good. Followers and blind bandwagonners deserve to die eventually. I want independent minds in this kind of game, ones that will be persuaded more by evidence and logic than popularity contests. And I like to reward bold mafia behavior, so that they take more risks. Better for town that the mafia play risky, because whenever you gamble, you eventually lose.

As a townie, though, you have nothing to lose, so the risk is always worth it. That's the main psychological difference between a townie and a mafia.


@Beefy, 725:

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"I find the fact that Ignomorus still lives on highly suspicious. Will he be WoGged soon GH?"

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Leave him be for a few rounds. He does need to die, but not yet. Benefit of doubt on Ignoramus, 3 rounds.

@Chaotix, 727

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"Geez, ATPG, talk about an insane wall of text! How long did it take you to write that, three hours or so? It took me an hour to read it and all the posts following it. I applaud you for your effort, and it looks like this analysis will be a lot of help to us for this game. For this game, at least, your usefulness and helpfulness have far outweighed the sometimes-annoying quantity of your posts."

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It took me around two or three hours to do the skynet analysis and post comments while doing so. Then, it was actually a relatively simple matter to merge the 4 or so notepad documents I had been keeping open. Organizing that mess into something marginally ok to read was a nightmare and took me an hour I think when I got here.

It's worth it. Because I am not here for long stretches of time, I save the thread and review it while I am offline. Since I have no one to talk to, the only thing I can do is pore over the data and make observations. And, since I have plenty of time with no distractions, I don't need to rush anything, which helps if you're looking for actual strange behavior.

I don't mind the effort. That's half of the fun of mafia games, to me... solving the case on my own as best I can, then comparing notes with town, and being part of the social network is the other half. It's also exciting to see how it turns out.

I also want to see if I can up SkyNet's accuracy percentage. 1 out of 5 wins for town under my watch isn't good enough, I don't care if I correctly guessed more than half of the scumbags, usually a round too late; and then second-guessing myself didn't help either.

I am scared to see the results of the game. I don't want to look like a fool again, but dare I even hope I personally nailed two or three scumbags out of three in one game? I may joke about having an ego, and maybe I have a little bit of one, but even I do not think so highly of myself that I am confident about anything, especially after being humiliated by lurkers of all people and totally thwarted by false scumtells from fellow townies in chicago, and my own bad reactionary/retaliatory play.

@Psychonaut, post 728:

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"I'd have to agree. Despite ATPG's analysis being helpful now everyone is focused on it and the maf can hide while we bicker among our selves."

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Should they do this, I will know. :mellow:
Town, make sure you don't lurk or hide. SkyNet cannot analyze nonexistent posts. Mafia will have to post more if you do, too.

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"Three important things from the write-ups. The kill mentions grizzly bears, so the mafia have been paying attention to the banter between Jolt and LG. Second, the nude unicyclist "observes everything", perhaps a reference to a detective. Third, the boombox guy has no care in the world, maybe immune to something?"

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I think the writeups have been falsely mentioning townies for a while now, but it is easy as heck for the mafia to slip themselves in to that list now that we aren't really paying close attention to it as a potential clue.

They mentioned pizza delivery in a recent one. I didn't even bother with the WIFOM implications, because I'm roast pizzaguy at this point anyway, and it's absurd, just like the one against Grizzly.

Of more interest is the nude unicyclist and the boombox guy, but to be honest, there is one kill per night, indicating to me that there's no serial killer, 3 mafia, one might be dead, a detective, and that's everyone who is important. GH himself said the game ends when the Godfather dies, so to me it's that not important who these people are.

However, if anyone has plausible theories, I am listening.

@Psychonaut post 731:

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"Tevash. I'm unsure. I don't feel he's overly scummy. He is being a bit defensive, but he's not doing any of the other key mafia tells."

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Precisely. You know, he's been in enough games and he's not a dumb person, in my view... he could, with careful play, avoid acting scummy altogether. From my analysis, that's his entire strategy for this game. I think he's scum, but maybe he has a role, it's also possible.

I'd be willing to let him live another couple rounds if he claimed to have a valuable role, as long as we lynched him then. Besides, if he did so, he'd make perfect murderbait.


@Seireikhaan, 733

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"Does the town really need me to SPELL OUT EVERYTHING for it? I can't believe nobody has noticed it..."

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We are all stumped. Either give us more clues or discuss something else in a more... comprehensible manner. Please. I believe you're proven innocent, and I highly value your opinion, but frankly I am baffled as to what it even is.

@Psychonaut, 735

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""held up by a pizza delivery car" a veiled reference perhaps? Or deliberately misleading?"

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:brood:

I've done plenty of WIFOM already in this game, I don't need to do more. And since I will die soon it's a moot point. Let's focus on clues that didn't come directly from the mouth of the lying scumbags as intentional WIFOM or attempts at framing me.

Humble suggestion is all. :bow:

@TinCow, post 745

I don't even listen to music on a regular basis. I would never have been able to do an analysis such as this. I am glad I'm not alone, because there are some types of clues I cannot decypher. Thank you for the attempt at decyphering the song clues.

@Sasaki, post 757

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"khaan capitalized Evil unnecessarily in one of his posts, in reference to sharks with lasers which is a reference to Dr. Evil. This clearly indicates who is guilty."

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Who?

And I'm glad you're paying attention, because I didn't see that one as a valuable clue... thanks for catching what falls through the cracks of my ability to analyze.

@Sasaki, post 762-

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"We're all awesome?"

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Indeed you are. I bow to the three of you. You're nearly as good as me.

:clown:

@glyphz, 769-

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"For reference. A tough (mountain of posts to) 'climb' ahead..."

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I still think you're innocent, but can I nudge you to contribute a little bit more? You're making me nervous.


And I missed a huge post by Sasaki. I am doing him a dishonor by ignoring it. Here we go:

@Sasaki, post 714:

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"Ok, there's some points I think I could explain more fully: First: Why would ATPG and/or YLC vote to lynch there own partner? Well, I have a reputation for being tenacious and good at convincing people, and I was going after Lord Winter pretty hard. Lord Winter was not successfully defending himself. When you're mafia, the fact that you know your partners are guilty always colors your perception of the game. There are many times I've been very anxious over a post one of my partners made that I thought would give them away only to have it ignored. So by that view, it's quite possible that LW's partners pessimistically considered him as good as dead. "

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That's very provocative and insightful. Thank you for sharing your mafia theory with me. I have much to learn from master Sasaki... maybe I can teach you of my ways as well, if you're willing.

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"Second: YLC's behavior yesterday. I described this poorly in my last post. I meant to get at the disconnect between his first post after the accusation, and the rest of his posts."

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Yeah... I get it. YLC's behavior when looked at on the surface seems to be misleading, scummy, confusing, irrational, illogical, and bad townie behavior. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And YLC has been mafia how many times? We have no read on his behavior as a mafioso, because he's never been one. And in this game, where people pick their partners, YLC would not be chosen in my estimation, because he's on everyone's scumdar all the time. And you have to admit, if he's a mafia after all this, he's got some cojones on him.

I am thinking about grapefruits for some unexplained reason. Must be a totally random thought. Must be.

Give YLC the benefit of the doubt for a couple rounds, then go hog wild on him for all I care. Occam's razor suggests he's a townie or a ballsy, ballsy mafia who WILL die soon for his trouble.

Dare I question the mighty Sasaki Kojiro? I dare.

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"Third: ATPG's case on Curio. 8 posts, several of them very long. He persistently questions Curio and accuses him of hiding. I don't think I'll get into the meat of ATPG's accusation but it is poor logic--thought not as bad as his case on shlin. After all that, he switches to Lord Winter with this post:"

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Yeah, forgive me Sasaki, but you're dropping the ball here. Why is it scummy for me to question Curio? And because the case was bad, and Curio answered my questions, I dropped it. That said, I am not going to punish you for questioning me, even if I disagree with your assumptions here. Just please consider my opinions with an equally open mind. Thanks!

In short, your case against me is poor. But a worthy try, so... put that stuff to good use on someone else. You know I'm a dead man walking, so... who else?

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"Fourth: ATPG current suspects."

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3 people who had no heat on them. That's better than say, Tevash, who has no new suspects, lurks, and bandwagons. But thanks for suspecting me so much and him so little.

:smartass: :grin:

I am truly having fun now. For me to nail Sasaki on poor reasoning, that's an utter joy.

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"Ignoramus always lurks and is usually WoG. Not a "soon" lynch in my book."

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Agreed. But you know, it was worth a try to put pressure on him. And like you, I've determined he deserves more time.

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"(about Reenk) This is his summary, and it has problems of its own--no one cares about being CoP and there are plenty of veteran players to recruit--but look at the full case for more fun, here's some snippets:"

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Perhaps you don't care about being CoP, but I would personally campaign for it as a scumbag. Definitley. Shlin hasn't been really considered as a suspect and he's contributing not much to our efforts. He's being overlooked precisely because he's the CoP. I'd jump on that in a heartbeat, because I play ballsy gambits, and it usually gets me dead, but mafia games are about having fun as much as winning. So there. And if the detective dies... how could you clear the CoP as a suspect? Only through lynching.

There are plenty of Vets to recruit, but which ones are choice candidates?

1. Players who win games
2. Players who haven't recently won a game, like yesterday
3. Players who survive a long time no matter their role
4. Brilliant players
5. Inscrutable players

Reenk meets all 5 categories to an insane extent. As such, he is a worthy candidate. Resist it all you want, but it's a fact.

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"My reaction to this is: what?? Seriously. I wouldn't say reenk is innocent but this is what he plays like, and these reasons of atpg's are nonsense. On Tevash, this seems to be the meat of atpg's accusation:"

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You're being too dismissive of me. Disagree if you wish, but I don't think you're giving me a fair shake. I ask you to reconsider, just for a moment, your judgment on me. Humor me.

This is what Reenk plays like as scum or town, and those reasons against him aren't to be just dismissed as nonsense. You didn't even explain why, or cite reasons why it's a bad case. Just writing me off like that actually triggers my scum indicator, but I refuse to threaten you for being hostile to my point of view.

Should you survive to the end and we haven't won, I'll reconsider you as a suspect. (Hopefully mafia will pick up on this and leave you alive. In spite of your bad analysis of me, you are a legend and I want you alive to vote. I think I can persuade you, especially past my own death.

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"In the middle of the list--null tell. And how is tevash's perfectly legitimate point about the writeup analysis scummy? He's right if you ask me, the writeup analysis is just wifom. You can hardly attack tevash for not going after mafia hard and fast when hardly anyone in the game has."

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I disagree about the middle of the list thing. Mafia do not often end up at the very top or very bottom. Guess what? In Blackadder, I ended up near the middle of the activity chart, and I'm always at the top. I was mafia. I can't be sure, but I think I wasn't the top poster in Prometheus either, especially post-mortem. I always am as a townie.

..Wow, I just totally destroyed my ability to ever escape from the top of the list ever again. :shame:

I am willing to destroy my chances as a scumbag in future games. I need more townie wins, and I have a 3 game streak (going on 4, with Jubal's mafia) as mafia, so I can handle a little more of a challenge.

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"Reposting my original case on YLC:

If we do make the assumption that Lord Winter was mafia (which I would be inclined to believe), then a couple people start to look scummy. First is YLC."

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Ok. well, you voted for Lord Winter, the scumbag. So did I. so did YLC. so did White Eyes.
Now put on your thinking cap again; (humor me)

If
Lord Winter = Mafia
Askthepizzaguy = Mafia
YLC = Mafia
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC kill mafia buddy Lord Winter
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC both annoy, distract, and otherwise pester town until we are both prime suspects.
Then
I offer you my head, and say go ahead and lynch YLC.


You must think "mine" and "his" are the size of Mercury. So I thank you for the compliment, but I'm more subtle and clever when I am mafia, not incredibly dumb and suicidal. So, dead wrong on me. Can't say about YLC, lynch him if you wish, I won't stop you. I just think he's proven himself as a townie by sacrificing himself in an unpopular way. You seriously underestimate YLC. Someday, it will bite you guys in the butt.

Admit it. He's either helping, or he's a very worthy mafioso. Either way, you admit he is talented. So, small victory for you YLC in this game. You get a medal or something when this is over, from me.

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"In summary I don't think either of these two can be considered trustworthy--they both need to be lynched imo.

Vote:Askthepizzaguy"

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I hold no grudges. Sasaki, I still think you're townie, just misguided.

Sasaki and misguided in the same sentence... my world no longer makes sense.
:clown:
Just playing with you Sasaki.

@Shlin-

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"Hmm... ATPG and YLC are totally scum in my august opinion (note: I accused them yesterday, but ATPG's response just made my suspicion a lot lot worse)
His case against me is just ludicrous, and from his reasonings ANYONE who tried to become the CoP would be scummy as only Godfathers would do that... yeah right...
I also think his "SkyNet", although a worthy piece of work, is not a standard piece of post analysis machine that Holmes was (post count/post length is a lot better than opinions on their posts, more mechanical that way and less tinged by personal opinions.) so I would not trust it as much as Holmes. Lynch ATPG and YLC my fellow citizens!"

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If that's the best you have to offer, Shlin, and you don't give better suspects soon, my opinion of your skills as town or mafia will have diminished. And you're registering higher on the scumdar with each post. Fair warning, my friend.

To be fair, my specific criticism of you is that you're defensive, quick to judge me, you're dismissive and sarcastic. What are you hiding? You have every right to criticize me, and disagree. I just think you made a poor case against me, gave a scummy defense, and have been disastrously wrong so far. Plus you got support from people I consider scum. No proof, just interesting.

You're not doing a good job as Police Chief. I recommend you be lynched before the game is over. You're mostly just joking around, and your analysis is lacking, and your suspects are easy marks. You're not putting forth effort, and that galls me to no end, buddy.

@LittleGrizzly, post 718

Jolt is confirmed innocent now, so leave him be, and kudos for actively encouraging an investigation on yourself. You once again haven't mislead the town down the garden path, and your hands are clean.

@Andres, post 719

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"I for one don't believe the mafia will voluntarily drop back to one kill a night for two subsequent nights in a row this early in the game.

Yes, it can be a trick, but making your kills count, narrows down the odds of getting lynched by the townies who, in most games, act unpredicatable. Many mafiosi felt comfortable in the past, thinking they did very well getting no attention and eventually got lynched in the last rounds.

Following that, Lord Winter was very likely scum.

Sasaki is spot on about it being suspicious how ATPG all of the sudden changed his mind and voted Lord Winter.

Even if Lord Winter wasn't scum, it is still rather suspicious.

Also note that in the post in which he voted Lord Winter, he also said he would go after GSC the next round. Instead of doing that, he suggests that we lynch Reenk Roink, Tevashzat and shlin28 in the next three rounds.

In a way, assuming ATPG is scum, this puts GSC in a bad daylight as well. Was he just ATPG's scapegoat or was it a tactic to create distance between him and his mafia buddy?

Vote : Askthepizzaguy

Fos : GSC"

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You consider Lord Winter scum, and readily acknowledge I am most responsible for his death. Then you consider I am scum, after my totally suicidal behavior. Right. I'd just hand the game to you guys as a mafia. Uh huh. Sorry Andres, rethink your case. After I am dead, and the game is over, I think you owe ME an apology, as I once owed you.

Gentlemen do that for one another, so I'm looking forward to it. That said, you meet all my criteria for town and I will willingly hand you the game for a while if you're mafia, out of respect for your skill in avoiding SkyNet detection.

I will only consider you as a suspect for the final lynch, and even then, I'd be hard pressed to do so.

@LittleGrizzly, post 720

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"ATPG.. my main reason to suspect him is because he try's so damn hard to look innocent, again its a risky strategy but he has shown a few times he is willing to die trying to prove his innocence as a townie... though he could have been building up to this mafia game and over the last few games gave himself the perfect cover"

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Stop thinking like this. I try to win every game. I have given you my EVERYTHING as a townie in every game I've been in. This is no gambit. Stop it guys. Use Occam's razor BEFORE you leap to this unlikely and very, very erroneous conclusion. That's poor townie reasoning.

Sorry, I need to :whip: my troops when they misbehave. Tis my prerogative as the self-appointed "Ultimate Town Protector", to quote a Cow made from some kind of shiny metal. (post 690)



@Chaotix, 727-

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"Do you think ATPG will stop using SkyNet on you just because he's been lynched?"

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I think I am going to sig this line for a while. You have so deliciously and potently worded how futile it is to lynch me as mafia for any reason besides removing my voting ability.

Gaius, Beefy, Chaotix, Rythmic, Seireikhaan, Glyphz, Sasaki, LittleGrizzly, Andres, TinCow, Shlin, "you've got mail", in this post. I find this method much less cluttery and definitley adding to the discussion in a less-annoying-to-everyone-besides-the-moderators way. But Andres needs to read this one anyway, so I feel not ashamed.

More, I have other stuff I forgot to add:

@Seamus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Vote: Pizza. You twigged my radar at first because of the historic kills -- and I know you've back researched threads. By itself, not enough.

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Incorrect analysis. It's well known I did a lot of research, but it takes no research to pull random deaths from old games.

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The stunt with YLC was annoying, but not enough.

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:shrug:
The fact that we both made ourselves top suspects doesn't strike you as odd if we're working together to make town suffer and die? Very well. I'm bold and creative, but I'll be damned if people think I am stupid. That's a stupid move. But, I can't prove my innocence, nor will I try any longer.

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Seeing my commentary on post counts and then going berzerk with posts was almost too calculating. Sasaki's points contribute. None enough in themselves, but taken together it has my vote.

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Incorrect analysis. I go "berserk" with posts in every game. I just happened to log in after that post, something which would have happened eventually. You're reading too much into nothing.

That said, I still believe you're a townie and that you're trying to help. I really wish you'd consider the obvious townie tells I keep indicating, lord winter's death and the consistent one-murders, the fact I've offered to die in subsequent rounds with my blessing, my ridiculously long winded analysis and my intentional attempts to bait people into talking, at the risk of my own life.

Ignore those at your peril, but when I die and the game continues, please listen to me.

Response/Rebuttal to TevashSzat post 712. You deserve a response, given the time you took to respond to me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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"Okay......it was pretty obvious that the CoP round was more or less not that serious with the Tincow eating babies and things like that. If you remember, I voted for shlin when he was the underdog and honestly had no idea everyone would all then suddenly bandwagon on shlin..... From your perception, the CoP would almost definately be scummy since people had to vote for him right? Of course, the other guy who would've possibly been CoP was Reenk so your "scummy" people would be fufilled after all......"

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Very well. It's entirely possible I am mistaken about that. But I was commenting on how your behavior may not have been random. That's something you feel you need to defend against, by all means do so.

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"Well, just pointing things out there since mafia usually rarely writes the writeups and noone had mentioned it before. It didn't lead us down any particularly useful avenues as usual but at least someone should've looked at them"

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Why didn't you? Why sit back and send other townies on a wild goose chase when you yourself are not prepared to bother?

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"Okay....let me get this straight. I'm scummy because I am actually trying to contribute? With that reasoning, you must the mafia given the huge wall of text you have provided for us. As for destroying arguments, again How is it bad to destroy BAD arguments before they're put into discussion and waste townie time? You can't say that my comments were true. Also, aren't your analysis of the "innocent" just destroying potential discussion. Your townie people must be innocent so you're making sure that people are only focusing on who you deem to be scummy."

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No, you aren't scummy for trying to contribute. You're questionable for contributing in a milquetoast fashion; simply arguing that WIFOM is a dead end, which you repeat, over and over again. You're not adding something new to the game when you state that.

How is it bad to destroy bad arguments? It isn't. But it's been characterized rightly as defensive behavior to argue against an argument that no one has made yet. Pre-empting arguments or inventing discussions is the stuff of people who are thinking about their own survival. Seireikhaan did this in Prometheus and most everyone jumped on it. Except me of course. And he was a scum and so was I.

:clown:

My analysis of the supposed innocent did not destroy discussion. What did GH say? "WOW activity just exploded?" Or words to that effect?

I accept your apology. :smartass:

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"It was the first round. Ichigo barely posted. Seamus didn't post much at all. There was little to no evidence against both. Am I to say that oh Ichigo's lurkiness makes him a definate scum? Heck, you didn't have a strong conviction against either too....... Also regarding the ellipsis that I use: I use them because I like using them.......I use them in alot of my posts and this isn't really a major development of my supposedly mafia psyche."

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You didn't offer us any other suspects, and you didn't want to make yourself a suspect by potentially killing an innocent. As for the ellipsis, forget about it. It does not matter, and I said I couldn't use that as evidence. Though I notice you made a point about using long ellipsis in this post as evidence that you do it all the time. That in itself is a whiff of something askew. But I said I'd drop it, so why don't you before you incriminate yourself.

:laugh4:

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"And you can find alot more posts from most people, including those in your townie list, that do the same thing. I never am too active in games so I try to "just stay active" alot."

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We're talking about you right now, don't change the subject. "You are never too active so you try to just stay active alot"? Fine, but I'm pointing out it's the perfect idle behavior to disguise your allegiance, without generating controversy. You've done that all game... you're just kind of there. You and controversy are on opposing ends of the earth, and I suspect you're doing it on purpose to avoid being lynched, instead of looking for suspects on your own. You have taken no risks and contributed close to nothing, yet posted an average amount of times.

That doesn't mean you are mafia, but it does mean you could easily be a mafia that survives to the end of the game doing what you're doing, and since your townie-ness is really sub-par in this game in my estimation, I suggest you be lynched. No biggie. If I deserve to die for my supposed scumminess, then you deserve to die for being far too cautious a player. Take a risk, man! Townies fear nothing. Why do you fear?

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"You here are misunderstanding what I am trying to say: I obviously have read the first writeup since how can I not recollect something if I haven't read it? I mean that this first writeup doesn't seem to be copied from any other writeup in other mafia games. I obviously haven't played every mafia game in the Org or even a large portion of it so there is a pretty good chance that if the writeup was copied, some veteran players who have had more games under their belt would have remembered them."

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Fair enough. You respond adequately here. A rebuttal does not immediately come to mind.

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"Let me say this: I don't have lots of ideas and don't post much like others (you, Tincow, etc...) so if I want to be on the top of postcounts, I'd have to SPAM the thread which would do no good. Lurking excessively can only caused WOG for me, which is bad for the town since I'm a townie so I don't do that.In short, I'm scummy now because I don't spam and I don't want to get WOGed. Seamus and White_eyes were only a few posts more and less than me, respectively. They, however, can't be sucmmy at all since they don't fall within the arbitrary middle do they?"

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Now it's your turn to miss MY point: All the things you're doing, collectively, seem to be a deliberate attempt to avoid suspicion well into the endgame, rather than find actual suspects. I am not asking you to be on top of post counts, I am asking that your posts, when you make them, have content besides "I'm here. I think WIFOM is bad. I see no suspects." Generating no controversy and being as ordinary as possible is a legitimate and very effective mafia strategy, and a very ineffective townie strategy unless you were a detective. And forgive me, but IMO you're no detective, so don't bother "revealing".

Quote:

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"Umm......I'm actually a bit of a slouch in most mafia games. I know I was fairly active in yours, but that was because your game had that twist. I would say most people would agree that I tend to be semi-active in most games or basically drop out. I have been WoGed quite a few times and quite often get behind in reading. I am seriously now doubting your analysis skills if all you've deduced from my games is that I always contribute alot because frankly (and kinda sadly) I rarely am that useful of a townie."

---

I never deduced that you always contribute a lot. You're putting words in my mouth. My accusation was that you have demonstrated in this game "the futility, the lack of energy, the lack of controversy, the lack of suspects, the lack of will, the lack of decisiveness" of a mafia scumbag, and I'll thank you to respond to that, not things that I didn't accuse you of.

Quote:

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"Yea.....I think our number of posts per page is different so can't really rebute here."

---

Sorry, bad move. The number of posts per page has no bearing on how active you are. If anything, you're inactive for MORE pages than what my system indicates, because I have it at 80 posts per page. You avoid my accusation with a defense that only makes you look worse. And you know exactly what I was talking about, don't pretend it's posts per page I was discussing, it was the LONG stretches of inactivity followed by a brief post, and more long stretches of inactivity.

THAT is evident no matter how many "posts per page" you view the thread with. I do not accept your defense, or lack thereof.

Quote:

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"Again, different # of posts per page"

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Nonsense, it has no bearing on the matter. You've avoiding the difference in activity that I accused you of.

Quote:

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"Okay, how the heck is that a bandwagon? Sasaki made a good argument against YLC and want him to respond. Sigurd votes YLC as a pressure vote. Now instead of YLC responding to an attack on him like myself, he votes for himself, which IMO, is incredibly scummy. Quick question: Had I not responded like so and simply voted myself saying that oh there is no point in staying alive at all? Does that make me more or less scummy?"

---

How was it a bandwagon?

You lurked and lurked and lurked. You were reading the thread, and not commenting. Then, YLC looks scummy to everyone, and already has been voted, and you decide it would be safe to vote for him. Then you disappear again completely, lurking again. Instead of looking for your own suspects, you're clearly just trying to find the least suspicious action that you can possibly do, the safest move to prevent yours or your fellow mafia's lynch.

And yes, YLC's vote on himself is scummy. But it's also bait that you fell for. It's sad when townies react so predictably and don't even try a little bit to figure out why YLC does these things.

As for your quick question, it's an absurd hypothetical, and it was posed in sarcasm from what I can tell. Are you annoyed that someone finally accused you of something? I have to deal with it, so you can too. At least my accusations make sense, as opposed to the absurd notion from parties that shall remain nameless that I killed my own partner and then played in a suicidal fashion... dumb, dumb, dumb.

Quote:

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"ATPG I must applaud you for your effort, but I seriously doubt your reasoning behind my supposed scumminess."

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That's fine. But your defense was full of huge gaping holes. I seriously doubt the reasoning behind your defense. Shall we die together?

Quote:

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You claim that I voted for the CoP, tried to stop bad arguments and point out WIFOM beforehand, don't post a great deal, which is my normal behavior, and vote on a clearly scummy or at least, not very helpful townie."

---

Yes. But that's not the entirety of my argument. You avoided dealing with much of what I accused you of. Also a scummy thing to do. You pretend to not know what I was talking about, and now you know, so respond. Otherwise I find your "defense" entirely disingenuous, and if you won't respond honestly, you look like scum to me.

Quote:

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I am ambivalent as to whether you are a mafioso with WAYYYYYY too much time on your hands or just a misguided townie. Your rather poor analysis and almost capricious choosing of scummy people, however, make me think that you will do little but distract the town's discussion.

---

My "rather poor analysis" has been lauded by many others, and not just in this game, barring my admittedly bad play in Chicago, I've nailed MANY a scumbag in my time. That said, I never said I was perfect either... lurkers tend to avoid detection. That's why they must die.

And your prediction was dead wrong. But that's beside the point, I have been wrong before and I could easily be wrong here. But you could just as easily be a mafioso.

Quote:

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"Vote: ATPG"

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OMGUS vote, kind of predictable. :smartass:

Quote:

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"Edit: I strongly encourage people to actually read ATPG's analysis before just capriciously bandwagoning for whomever he deemed to be scummy.
Edit 2: FOS: Quintus No comment regarding ATPG's analysis at all. Did you even read his analysis of me?"

---

I love your FOS of Quintus. You seem to be lashing out at the randomest people, like Reenk lashing out at TinCow and Chaotix. Sense a pattern?

And several people did read my analysis, fully, and responded to points I made. But nice try. Bottom line, your defense was poor at best, and your FOS on Quintus was nothing more than grasping at straws. You offer no real suspects, and you're entirely too cautious and defensive to be a viable townie in my opinion. That said, I am not the almighty. My opinion is one in 28. The rest will decide your fate.

Thanks for responding to my post. My case against you is nothing personal, you're still my friend. No hard feelings buddy. Shake hands after the game? It's been delightful to spar with you, I do mean that sincerely. May the better player win, and may all have fun.

EDIT: By the way, "ATPG MUST BE SCUM" People:

If so, my mafia partners tried to save my butt last round. Nice try. Guess who your suspects are.

Quote:

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"TevashSzat: 5 (Quintus.JC, YLC, Beefy187, Askthepizzaguy, Psychonaut)"

---

Some points of interest from the polls (in reverse alpha order):

White_Eyes: D1 = Elect Reenk, D2 = Abstain, D2 Runoff = Seamus, D3 Abstains then changes to Winter, D4 = no vote, D5 = no vote, D5 runoff = Pizza.

Not lurking per se, but avoiding most of the tough votes. Only the vote on Winter would have been made under any presssure. Interestng choice to NOT vote, then vote in the runoffs....


taka: D1 = no vote, D2 = Ichigo, D2 runoff = no vote, D3 = abstain, d4 = Sigurd, d5 = no vote, d5 runoff = tev.

Major lurking, with only 8 posts (1 of which occurred before play began) out of more than 840 total. In those 7 posts he has lodged 4 votes. We need to get him in play...soon.


Seamus: D1 = elect Reenk, D2 = ylc, d2 runoff = no vote, d3 = abstain changed to beefy, d4 = sigurd, changed to rythmic (psycho), d5 = pizza, d5 runoff = chose not to vote.

Does not seem to join in any majority vote thus far. Votes have all been pressure efforts placed on people to, at least ostensibly, solicit information. Frequent poster, but not dominating thread. Has, however, had a few stretches with almost a day of no posting.


Ignoramus: D1 & D2 = no vote, D2 runoff = seamus, d3 = no vote, d4 = ylc, d5 = tev.

Major league lurking, with 4 posts: 1 to sign up and 3 others to vote just frequently enough to completely avoid a wogging. We need him dead or involved, he will not be wogged out.

After all that hubub about me not rebuttal-ing TevashSzat, you're now online and I have your rebuttal.

Read it and weep, you scummy, scummy scum. :grin:


Edit: I'd love a response from you, Seamus my friend, when you catch my message.


Tally: (From Tevash's tally onward, rechecking)

Quote:

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Tevash: 6 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Ares, Taka, Psychonaut, ATPG)
ATPG: 5 (Sasak Kojiroi, TevashSzat, White_eyes, Reenk Roink, Beefy)

---

:wall: This is getting painful to watch. I'm innocent. The mafia has done this before in the Godfather series, GH and Saski won the first game using it. The lack of kills proves nothing. :wall:

ORLY, Lord Winter?

Then you clearly must be following the thread, and surely you have come up with other suspects (besides me of course... don't be lazy) If I don't get a logical response from you in short order, you've incriminated yourself to show up here to protest your innocence, offering nothing substantive against anyone.

Who are your suspects, and why. Clock is ticking. Cue the Jeopardy theme.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki

"Ok, there's some points I think I could explain more fully: First: Why would ATPG and/or YLC vote to lynch there own partner? Well, I have a reputation for being tenacious and good at convincing people, and I was going after Lord Winter pretty hard. Lord Winter was not successfully defending himself. When you're mafia, the fact that you know your partners are guilty always colors your perception of the game. There are many times I've been very anxious over a post one of my partners made that I thought would give them away only to have it ignored. So by that view, it's quite possible that LW's partners pessimistically considered him as good as dead. "

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That's very provocative and insightful. Thank you for sharing your mafia theory with me. I have much to learn from master Sasaki... maybe I can teach you of my ways as well, if you're willing.

---

"Insightful and provocative" but I guess it went over your head:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Ok. well, you voted for Lord Winter, the scumbag. So did I. so did YLC. so did White Eyes.
Now put on your thinking cap again; (humor me)

If
Lord Winter = Mafia
Askthepizzaguy = Mafia
YLC = Mafia
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC kill mafia buddy Lord Winter
Then
Askthepizzaguy + YLC both annoy, distract, and otherwise pester town until we are both prime suspects.
Then
I offer you my head, and say go ahead and lynch YLC.


You must think "mine" and "his" are the size of Mercury. So I thank you for the compliment, but I'm more subtle and clever when I am mafia, not incredibly dumb and suicidal.

---

YLC has acted suspicious, but the connection between you two is not terribly important. I always try to note connections between people.

Now, I just got done explaining this in great detail to khaan which you missed but I don't mind again. There were two votes on me from people who aren't sold on me being guilty. There were three votes on Lord Winter from people who thought he was guilty. Lord Winter's defense was inadequate. I'm very tenacious. You: brought a failed case on curio with poor logic, which became a vote on lord winter with poor reasoning once he was already going to be lynched, you waffle in another post where you try to leave your options open to unvote lord winter if you can. This has all the signs of a mafioso voting their buddy. I've played extensively on another site where the role of the person lynched is always revealed immediately. Voting to lynch your mafia partner is common, it's almost a guarantee that one mafioso will be voting for their partner if he is lynched. You'd have been lynched in about 5 minutes the following day for the set of posts I'm referencing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Yeah, forgive me Sasaki, but you're dropping the ball here. Why is it scummy for me to question Curio? And because the case was bad, and Curio answered my questions, I dropped it. That said, I am not going to punish you for questioning me, even if I disagree with your assumptions here. Just please consider my opinions with an equally open mind. Thanks!

In short, your case against me is poor. But a worthy try, so... put that stuff to good use on someone else. You know I'm a dead man walking, so... who else?

---

Why is it scummy to make bad cases? Seriously? Because mafia have to fake it, which tends to make cases bad. And when they have to fake it quickly it makes the cases worse. If you have records of the past games, tell me what percentage of the votes came accompanied by "His case on so and so uses poor reasoning". It is one of the most common mafia tells. With you I don't think it's that scummy since even mafia can usually do better. It's less scummy for you than it would be for sigurd etc who I would hold to a much higher standard.

Quote:

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3 people who had no heat on them. That's better than say, Tevash, who has no new suspects, lurks, and bandwagons. But thanks for suspecting me so much and him so little.

---

As I'm sure you noticed, this section was about how terrible your arguments are. Tevash could be mafia but is unremarkable.

Quote:

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And if the detective dies... how could you clear the CoP as a suspect? Only through lynching.

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How the bleep do you clear anyone as a suspect if the detective dies? Do you not read over any of the words you type? I'll spell it out for you: you can't pick who the mafia kill so the only way to clear anyone without a detective is by lynching him. Being CoP is not a significant advantage.

Quote:

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Shlin hasn't been really considered as a suspect and he's contributing not much to our efforts. He's being overlooked precisely because he's the CoP.

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Shlin is being himself. He isn't being voted because he hasn't done much that's suspicious not because he's chief of police.

Quote:

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You're being too dismissive of me. Disagree if you wish, but I don't think you're giving me a fair shake. I ask you to reconsider, just for a moment, your judgment on me. Humor me.

This is what Reenk plays like as scum or town, and those reasons against him aren't to be just dismissed as nonsense. You didn't even explain why, or cite reasons why it's a bad case. Just writing me off like that actually triggers my scum indicator, but I refuse to threaten you for being hostile to my point of view.

---

I'm not being too dismissive. I can't accurately describe the quality of your arguments without breaking rule number three, which I've already infringed several times in this post. Let's just say that putting "THIRD ON A BANDWAGON" and "DEAD CENTER" in all caps does not make your arguments more meaningful. Holmes analyzed players numerically based on a complicated system of post count, post frequency, and many other factors and compared players differences between when they were town and when they were scum. Even that system, infinitely more complex than your "dead center= scummy" system, wasn't 100%. I'm always near the top, whether scum or town. Lurkers are near the bottom, and often scum. Third on a bandwagon became a joke a couple games after it was first mentioned. It is not "the safest and most scummy move in the universe". What caught my attention with Lord Winter was describing something as "incredibly suspicious" that wasn't. So you know my opinion of "safest and most scummy move in the universe".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

This is what Reenk plays like as scum or town,

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You say that this is what reenk plays like when he's town. So reenk could be town, your saying.

Quote:

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I disagree about the middle of the list thing. Mafia do not often end up at the very top or very bottom. Guess what? In Blackadder, I ended up near the middle of the activity chart, and I'm always at the top. I was mafia. I can't be sure, but I think I wasn't the top poster in Prometheus either, especially post-mortem. I always am as a townie.

---

I already dealt with this, but I'll give it a go again, just to show how ridiculous it is:

Capo II:

Sasaki Kojiro 284 Scum
Andres 218 Scum
TinCow 200
Glenn 163
Caius 160
TruePraetorian 152 Scum
CountArach 146 Scum

Kung Fu:

Orb 134 Scum
Andres 131
The Stranger 109

Godfather 2:

Sasaki Kojiro 171
Don Corleone 81
Husar 78
Ichigo 78 Scum
Silver Rusher 69
GeneralHankerchief 68 Scum
Seamus Fermanagh 64
Myrddraal 58 Scum

Trapped in Taormina:

Privateerkev 219 Scum
Sasaki Kojiro 99 Scum
TinCow 97 Scum
Makanyane 51
Ichigo 50


With lurkers, the post game count doesn't mean much because townies who are killed early and WoG's are there.

Here's some more from your arguments earlier which I didn't bother responding to:

Quote:

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Post 50: Self-incriminating joke. "I am the Godfather." He does stuff like this when he's guilty, too.

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Game has not started yet. Roles have not been sent.

Quote:

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Post 115: "Why is the town getting rid of my vote? Ah hell, voting is useless anyway, and I can be courteous without it. Elect: Reenk Roink"
Eager to survive to the endgame and he does usually abstain anyway.

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He must be mafia, because he's worried about being night killed? Perhaps your trying to say that he's "eager to have an excuse to survive to endgame" despite the fact that you didn't say that at all, but you can't mean that because you claimed that reenk was insanely good at surviving to endgame normally.

Quote:

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An awful lot of thought on this topic, eh, Reenk? And who would you suggest you'd pick "if you were mafia", if you WERE mafia?

---

A recall about a dozen people answering the question of who they would pick. This is not a scum tell.




That's enough, I'm tired of this round, and of hashing it out at length when most of the people are voting in one liners. Even if you don't think atpg is particularly scummy (he could be town if you accept that he's terrible at mafia the timing of the vote on lord winter was mere unfortunate coincidence), please accept that he has no idea what he's talking about don't lynch tevash based an his word. Sorry ATPG you put a lot of effort into it but I don't like brown nosing so I'll speak my mind here.

For those who want a summary, I spend about 20% arguing that atpg is scummier than tevash, and 80% going through why his arguments are terrible because there are several people who don't seem to see that. Although I guess they won't read this either.

In the end I go back to my original sentiment regarding atpg. If all of someones arguments are bad, how do you tell if they are mafia? In the endgame if he votes for someone for a reason that is obviously nonsensical (say that they capitalize weird letters in their posts like "CoP", see atpg on shlin) do you just let that slide? No.

Quote:

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ORLY, Lord Winter?

Then you clearly must be following the thread, and surely you have come up with other suspects (besides me of course... don't be lazy) If I don't get a logical response from you in short order, you've incriminated yourself to show up here to protest your innocence, offering nothing substantive against anyone.

Who are your suspects, and why. Clock is ticking. Cue the Jeopardy theme.

---

Seamus seems to be less active then usual. His post also seem to be a l light on the anyalsis that normaly see from him. This should be followed up next round.

I don't think your guilty, but I'm buying your case for Tevesh. Its the exact case you were making in Chigago and we all know how that turned out. Your case with Reenk however, has more merit. Not because of the methods you used, but the general vibe he been sending off. He hasn't seemed like his usual sporadic self. This could be because of RL or it could be because he's scum, no way to know with the info we have now, he would be a better lynch if he's still alive in the latter game.

Taka also needs to be watched, he just pulled off a lurker victory in Beefy's miny game.

Now to read to your latest wall of text :study:

Very well, Sasaki. Thank you for responding. You don't have to agree with me, but I suspect one of us will have egg on his face when the game is over.

:bow:

After I'm dead, we can move on from the whole "ATPG is scum" theory, because that just leaves the Godfather, and you will have plenty of time to catch him. But I still say you're blatantly ignoring the fact that I'm sticking my neck out there to be chopped, and if I am scum, lynching my own partner EARLY when I could have voted for someone else, and you're refusing to use occam's razor.

And Tevash has offered nothing to this game besides bland posts and a vehement defense of himself, which (occam's razor) is scummier than me.

I agree this needs to end so we can move on. Lynch one of us, let's get it moving. Hey, Lord Winter, are you having trouble with the suspect list?


EDIT: It took you 15 minutes to come up with "Seamus is posting less" and "Reenk could be scum"?
Thanks. You've proven my point. That's only one two new suspects, and a bland reasoning behind it. Oh and Taka for lurking... same reason you got lynched.

I don't have the inclination right now to go through atpg's arguments on tevash, which is a pity since he's the one up for lynch. Reenks were the ones we discussed before so they got responded to.

But I have time for this one:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

How is it bad to destroy bad arguments? It isn't. But it's been characterized rightly as defensive behavior to argue against an argument that no one has made yet. Pre-empting arguments or inventing discussions is the stuff of people who are thinking about their own survival. Seireikhaan did this in Prometheus and most everyone jumped on it. Except me of course. And he was a scum and so was I.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Hypothetical argument against me:
"He's defending himself, he must be scum! Total scum maneuver!"

No, it's not. If you read the content of what I have said, I've offered you my life and will not resist if you choose to lynch me. And if you blatantly ignore WHAT I am saying and only focusing on the fact that I am saying it, you're doing town a disservice and you're being lazy and irresponsible. Sorry, needed to be said. This isn't going to make me popular either, but I refuse to sacrifice logic to suck up to you.

---

I stepted away from the computer Pizza, not everyone spends as much time on the .Org as you do. I admit, I didn't dig through the thread to find info but you wanted who I felt was suspicious, not a five page essay on each.

Yes, Sasaki, I am thinking of my survival.

So much, I offered to die after Reenk, shut up after Tevash, and vote myself every round from now on.



@Lord Winter: Nervous much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Yes, Sasaki, I am thinking of my survival.

So much, I offered to die after Reenk, shut up after Tevash, and vote myself every round from now on.



@Lord Winter: Nervous much?

---

Not really, just worried that the town is basing there whole case off of false data.

Yeah, where have I heard that before... from Reenk and Tevash. Hmm...


@Sasaki:

Quintus.JC, White_Eyes, YLC, Beefy187, Psychonaut, Seireikhaan, Chaotix27, Ares, and myself. These are the people who will chuckle when you turn out to be dead wrong about me.

I am having the time of my life here. I will remember this game forever. :laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Very well, Sasaki. Thank you for responding. You don't have to agree with me, but I suspect one of us will have egg on his face when the game is over.

---

Not really. All your arguments are poor and I've said we don't want someone in the endgame who has that as an excuse. This is true no matter your alignment. Many things in mafia come down to opinion but an astonishing number of the things you say are proven completely wrong by 10 seconds of research or an understanding of the rules of the game. Or basic math as khaan would say. Anyway, I'm tired and frustrated by lazy people. In the next game I host I'm have a role or two whose win condition is that they kill at least 3 people who are lazy or use arguments that defy the rules of logic. I've probably ended up typing more this round than I usually do in the endgame when the game is on the line, and all because I just think atpg is a better lynch than tevash. I'd like to move on...

best way:

Quote:

---

Askthepizzaguy
This message is hidden because Askthepizzaguy is on your ignore list.

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:shakehands: Sasaki, and let's do move on. Please. I am anxious for the rest of the game to begin.

Edit: Suit yourself. I've done my level best to be courteous to you, and I've gotten a lot of condescension and snarkiness in return, and so therefore we will just not post towards one another for the remainder. This is about having fun, and I refuse to make things personal or start a silly feud with a player I respect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Some points of interest from the polls (in reverse alpha order):

White_Eyes: D1 = Elect Reenk, D2 = Abstain, D2 Runoff = Seamus, D3 Abstains then changes to Winter, D4 = no vote, D5 = no vote, D5 runoff = Pizza.

Not lurking per se, but avoiding most of the tough votes. Only the vote on Winter would have been made under any presssure. Interestng choice to NOT vote, then vote in the runoffs....

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I was the MAJOR reason why there was a lurker victory in "Chicago Soiree" the only reason why I voted now, was because Khaan and his cryptic defense of ATPG....I have seen it before....:whip: never listen to Khaan....ATPG did and over-analyzed until my name came up twice in a previous game......and we lost because of it...he trusted Khaan and figured he gave up his scum-buddy.....I repeatedly told him....NEVER over-analyze and SkyNet 2.0 is the King of all over-analysises...and I voted Lord Winter at the time because I thought "maybe there both innocent..." If I recall Sasaki was the first one to change his vote....and I was the second or third too.....I well not let another "Chicago Soiree" victory happen....and I sure as hell won't be the guy who helps that happen, so if you expect me to vote like crazy....then you are in for some disappointment..:whip:

No wait White Eyes, what? Just a little over protective there. Not to mention your logic.

I could point out mistakes other people made in previous games and never let them live it down, but if I did that, even you veterans could be told to keep quiet and never analyze anyone.

It's the height of hypocrisy to hold someone to the standard of never making a mistake.

This is becoming less fun now. Let's not make things personal. Just enjoy the game and vote who you like.

In fact, let's end this now.

If Askthepizzaguy overtakes TevashSzat in the tally, thus making me the top vote getter for the lynch, at this point I say stop the vote right there and lynch me. Enough time has been spent.

If Tevash beats me in the vote, just end the round. His scum buddies already voted me.

Oi - some please post a tally :brood:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Winter

No wait White Eyes, what? Just a little over protective there. Not to mention your logic.

---

I won't heed the words of a lurker Mafia..:tongue:

and ATPG, no offense..your analysis is good.....but your bias "clouds your judgment"....and it leaves the door wide open for the Mafia......I would be the first to look at the facts....rather then just posting behavior.....:juggle2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Yeah, where have I heard that before... from Reenk and Tevash. Hmm...


@Sasaki:

Quintus.JC, White_Eyes, YLC, Beefy187, Psychonaut, Seireikhaan, Chaotix27, Ares, and myself. These are the people who will chuckle when you turn out to be dead wrong about me.

I am having the time of my life here. I will remember this game forever. :laugh4:

---

I won't chuckle.. I will laugh

Chuckle is smiley I don't have. I only have beam and laugh

And its not that I think your guilty. Infact other then Ignomorus, I don't see anyone standing out. I just want to see a full on argument with Tevash so everything is fair.

Can I get an "amen" on ending the round if I become the lead vote again?

Please? Let's end this.



Same tally as before, feel free to recheck it.

Quote:

---

Tevash: 6 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Ares, Taka, Psychonaut, ATPG)
ATPG: 5 (Sasak Kojiro, TevashSzat, White_eyes, Reenk Roink, Beefy

---

Thank you :bow:

Vote:Tevash

Rechecked. Ares abstained so heres the latest tally

(including YLCs vote)

Tevash: 6 (Quintus, Ignoramus, Taka, Psychonaut, ATPG, YLC)
ATPG: 5 (Sasak Kojiro, TevashSzat, White_eyes, Reenk Roink, Beefy

Oh, didn't see Ares' abstain. My sincerest apologies. :shame:

Offer still stands. Please lynch me if I hit magic number 7 and Tevash is still at 6. Two more votes.

I've decided to vote for psychonaut until he gets lynched, starting next round. No reason necessary. We have about 8 lynches so why not?

ATPG...don't take this personally.....you did a real good analysis.....and have at some points inspired me Like this it's like even if you get off this.....you are going to be lynched in the future.....yet, are fighting Claw, Tooth and Nail to make sure we all know that you are town and used many hours of your life on this to make sure Mafia didn't win.....I give you my thanks on this....:smash:

No, White_Eyes, it's OK. Seriously.

I just have grown weary of people who don't know for a fact that Reenk and Tevash aren't scum posting in a condescending fashion about how wrong I am, and about how horrible my analyses are, when I have a track record that, while imperfect, actually says otherwise.

I've been discussed to death, and it's OVER. I'm done! I had fun, but now we are beating a dead horse. Either lynch Tevash, or lynch me. I'm beyond caring at this point. I will come back later and continue doing my work for town if I die, and I'll shut up if I am a dead mafia, so you will know. No apologies necessary, let's turn the game forward. Tevash is afraid to die, I'm not.


Vote.