Pirates seize U.S. freighter, hold captain for ransom

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Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito

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Underscoring the high stakes involved, France’s navy freed a sailboat seized off Somalia last week by other pirates, but one of the hostages was killed, along with two of the bandits. Three pirates were captured. In Paris, Armed Forces Chief of Staff Jean-Louis Georgelin dismissed the notion of coordination between the French and Americans on the two incidents.

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Hopefully, this is untrue or soon to be remedied. All the major nation's navies patrolling this area must coordinate their efforts to be truly effective.

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It is my understanding that there is plenty of international coordination between at least the EU and US navies. And probably with others as well.

I think Jean-Louis Georgelin is referring to the fact that the three French military actions over the past few months themselves have been French solo efforts, without foreign cooperation.

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Originally Posted by Rory

Do we have to relearn the lessons every time there's a naval war? Last time the enemy was underwater and the area was the North Atlantic! SORT THIS OUT

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In a rare show of sanity, the EU placed its mission in the Somali waters under command of the British navy, headed by Phillips. It always pleases me when European nationalist sentiment is cast aside for sanity and reason. Let everybody do what they're good at. :2thumbsup:

We were kinda hoping you lot would know just what to do though...:sweatdrop:


To link this to another thread, Norway joined the EU for this mission. Excellent. More bizarrely, the Swiss navy joined as well...~:confused:

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Hopefully, this is untrue or soon to be remedied.

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Don't be silly , co-ordination is pretty much non existant and if France again publicises the opening of its local bases to the US then they will get the backlash .

:pirate2:

:7ninja: We could send ninjas to fight them! :7ninja:

:7pirate:

So on the next international talk like a pirate day, can I expect all of you to talk arabic? ~D

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So on the next international talk like a pirate day, can I expect all of you to talk arabic?

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Do you mean Somali , especially in the areas concerned and in the areas of Yemen where they run the financial side

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

If I was a somali, I'd be a pirate! At least I have no moral qualms about being one. And why should I?

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and if i were a ship owner with a way to defend myself i would happily pull the trigger when your 'fishing' boat hove into view.

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Somalia, like all maritime countries, has legal rights over an exclusive economic zone that extends 200 nautical miles to sea. And though it has no navy to enforce its control, it theoretically owns the fish and minerals in that area.

Many of Somalia's angry fishermen have picked up rifles and joined the pirate mafias that have seized more than two dozen vessels off the Somali coast so far this year, maritime security experts say.

"It's almost like a resource swap," said Peter Lehr, a Somalia piracy expert at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland and the editor of "Violence at Sea: Piracy in the Age of Global Terrorism." "Somalis collect up to $100 million a year from pirate ransoms off their coasts. And the Europeans and Asians poach around $300 million a year in fish from Somali waters."

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Personally, I say good for the pirates :fishing:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Personally, I say good for the pirates :fishing:

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They're Africans, they should sit and do as there told. /some people

Although piracy is piracy and should be treated as such.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

They're Africans, they should sit and do as there told. /some people

Although piracy is piracy and should be treated as such.

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Well, should we sink all the poachers too? If you don't want to get pirated, sail around the other way.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Well, should we sink all the poachers too? If you don't want to get pirated, sail around the other way.

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I agree.

Are they poachers? There's no government, so who would they pay the money to?

Fairer would be to have a "pirate tax" to pay for the warships.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Are they poachers? There's no government, so who would they pay the money to?

Fairer would be to have a "pirate tax" to pay for the warships.

~:smoking:

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So if you aren't near your car, and thus I can't pay you money for it, can I steal it?

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I'm not defending the kidnappers, I'm saying you should not carpet bomb villages because some people were kidnapped. It's not like the pirates are bloodthirsty monsters who eat bugs and then the kidnapped people after receiving the money. They're a bunch of guys who have no jobs but little boats so they think they can make some money off these rich westerners who come buy with expensive ships that they afforded by selling ressources they got out of the pirates' country. Yes, they do fumble around with sticks and shoot rockets but that just shows how insecure they are because they are afraid someone on the ship might use a water hose on them otherwise. They play big gorilla to scare their prey because otherwise they don't have a chance, that a bunch of sailor can overwhelm them or scare them away now and then just reinforces that.

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Do you really believe that?!

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I work at a shop. There's no way I'll ever fight back if I get robbed. Honestly, they don't even need a weapon to rob me, all they need to say is that they want to register, and I'll hand it over in a second. It's not my money, so I see absolutely no reason to care. My life and my safety is worth more than a few bucks.

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That money pays your wage.

The ports banning arms is frustrating, but not surprising, considering the governments around the world.

Even more frustrating is France being so much more proactive than the US. We've got a warship right next to the pirate ship - why not simply 'negotiate' the release of the hostage in exchange for allowing the pirates to live? Which is basically what happens at bank robberies.

This problem is just going to get worse. I'm decidedly in favor of gunboat diplomacy.

CR

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

and if i were a ship owner with a way to defend myself i would happily pull the trigger when your 'fishing' boat hove into view.

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If you were a ship owner, you would been a thousand miles away from the ship and wouldn't do anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

That money pays your wage.

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If a boss expects his employees to risk their lives/safety to defend a couple of bucks, I would've quit instantly. Fortunately, I have a sane boss who expects me to hand over the cash as fast as possible, and leave the rest of the stuff to the proper authorities, ie. the police. He's insured anyway, and a couple of thousand NOK is nothing when the yearly turnover is 700 million....

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

If a boss expects his employees to risk their lives/safety to defend a couple of bucks, I would've quit instantly. Fortunately, I have a sane boss who expects me to hand over the cash as fast as possible, and leave the rest of the stuff to the proper authorities, ie. the police. He's insured anyway, and a couple of thousand NOK is nothing when the yearly turnover is 700 million....

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If your boss expects you to defend her property, she should compensate you appropriately to that level of risk. Fair's fair.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Even more frustrating is France being so much more proactive than the US. We've got a warship right next to the pirate ship - why not simply 'negotiate' the release of the hostage in exchange for allowing the pirates to live?

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The Founding Fathers faced exactly the same question, although on a much larger scale. Their solution? Pay the ransom. Oh, there was a lot more to it than that, but the upshot was hostages, failed rescue attempts (resulting in more hostages), bribes, treaty, payments.

We gonna party like it's 1805!

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

To link this to another thread, Norway joined the EU for this mission. Excellent. More bizarrely, the Swiss navy joined as well...~:confused:

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This I want to see.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Do you mean Somali , especially in the areas concerned and in the areas of Yemen where they run the financial side

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I wanted to say that first but then I thought they probably just speak arabic and tried to be clever, but it was a lose/lose situation for an ignorant yuropeen like me anyway I guess.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

If you were a ship owner, you would been a thousand miles away from the ship and wouldn't do anything about it.

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pedantry. but if you wish me to rephrase it for you:
"and if i were a ships captain with a way to defend myself i would happily pull the trigger when your 'fishing' boat hove into view."

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

So if you aren't near your car, and thus I can't pay you money for it, can I steal it?

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If I own a parking space, and there's an unlocked car present with keys in the ignition and no owner, you're free to drive off in it.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

If your boss expects you to defend her property, she should compensate you appropriately to that level of risk. Fair's fair.

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There are better ways to defend property. Like avoid getting robbed in the first place ~;) The focus here in Norway is on avoiding robberies completely, if a robbery takes place anyway, then it's a FAIL, might as well hand over everything. Rule number 1 of the "not getting robbed"-school, is of course to never have any significant amount of cash. If people know we don't have any cash, they see no point in robbing us. And there's even less reason to play hero if you do get robbed.

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pedantry. but if you wish me to rephrase it for you:
"and if i were a ships captain with a way to defend myself i would happily pull the trigger when your 'fishing' boat hove into view."

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If you were a ships captain, why would you want to get shot in a situation where you're not going to suffer yourself?

Drop the tough guy-face, please. Let's see, you're a captain. You have a wife and children at home. Your employer won't care if he gets robbed, and will pay your ransom quickly. Why on earth would you turn a smooth situation into one where your kids might end up without a father?

I'm with HoreTore. The crews are not equipped nor trained to have a stand up fight with Pirates. Because it may be a fishing boat, but they're not carrying fishes. Unless there's a deck mounted minigun to hand - make that several as it's a big ship - with decent armour you're out gunned and out manned - you'll loose. I'd cheerfully shoot if I knew I'd win. But I'm sensible enough not to end up as a pathetic epitaph of how I "heroically

The skull and crossbones, so beloved of pirates was similarly a choice for the ship: we're pirates. Give up and escape with your lives. I imagine most did. If you resisted too much, the red flag came up, which meant no quarter given.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

If you were a ships captain, why would you want to get shot in a situation where you're not going to suffer yourself?

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Well, he probably thinks he won't get shot but will shoot you instead.
And he may not think otherwise until your RPG has blown away his legs and lower intestines

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Drop the tough guy-face, please. Let's see, you're a captain. You have a wife and children at home. Your employer won't care if he gets robbed, and will pay your ransom quickly. Why on earth would you turn a smooth situation into one where your kids might end up without a father?

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Because some philosopher said it's better to die in your feet than wait for a ransom on your knees. A philosopher who has probably never seen violence I might add.

That's just my hypothetical answer of course , not like I'm actually trying to answer for someone else. ~;)

pirates are a scourge, and not to be tolerated by any civilised person.

they were rightly hunted down like vermin and hung from the yard-arm when caught.

i don't advocate that everyone has to act like 'rambo', but i do believe that every legal mechanism should support any measures a captain is willing to take in defence of his ship.

that amercian crew did an amazing job to defend their ship from the pirates, if they'd had one man with a barrat punching bloody great holes through the hulls of those 'fishing' vessels then they would have got away. equally they would have the option of punching great bloody holes in the chest of any excitable little fellow who started waving rpg's around. i cheer everything they have done.

Captain saved, 3 out of 4 pirates killed.

So room for improvement there then. :thumbsup:

~:smoking:

nice work, better luck next time.

no wait, what am i saying, what about their rights..................?

oh yeah, they're vermin so i don't care. :idea2:

Captain took the initiative and dived off the lifeboat, allowing the SEAL team to shoot the 3 pirates. The other pirate was negotiating a ransom when this occured, and he was arrested on the spot.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Is that because it makes sense ?

So with have two current examples , one followed the guidelines set out and one didn't , one ship is sailing on its way with crew and cargo safe and intact , one is missing its captain .
So who got it right ?
The Isreali crew who rigged water hoses , lights and barbed wire so they drove off the pirates or the American crew who fought back without ensuring that all crew were safe .

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Um, the way the American crew tells it, the Captain gave himself up so that the rest could be safe - rather different from what your version implies, isn't it? But then, letting the truth get in the way of a dig at the US is never fun, is it?
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

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Crew members said their ordeal had begun with the Somali pirates hauling themselves up from a small boat bobbing on the surface of the Indian Ocean far below.

As the pirates shot in the air, Phillips told his crew to lock themselves in a cabin and surrendered himself to safeguard his men, crew members said.

Phillips was then held hostage in an enclosed lifeboat that was closely watched by U.S. warships and a helicopter in an increasingly tense standoff. On Friday, the French navy freed a sailboat seized off Somalia last week by other pirates, but one of the five hostages was killed.

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Anyways, glad to hear this had a happy ending. Hurrah for the SEALs! Hopefully the pirates willthink twice before going after another American flagged vessel.

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Anyways, glad to hear this had a happy ending. Hurrah for the SEALs! Hopefully the pirates willthink twice before going after another American flagged vessel.

CR

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Hopefully we'll make them think twice about going after any vessel.

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Um, the way the American crew tells it, the Captain gave himself up so that the rest could be safe - rather different from what your version implies, isn't it? But then, letting the truth get in the way of a dig at the US is never fun, is it?

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No Rabbit , the Captain had to stay behind while the rest of the crew locked themselves in the steering compartment .That put him in the hands of the pirates .
That was all well and good , following the correct proceedures .
It was once the crew captured one of the pirates that the situation became more complicated and put the Captain in a worse position , so they released the pirate to try and rectify the situation ....but that didn't work did it

Um , the way the crew tells it eh . :inquisitive: So have you read the way Quinn told it ?