Unification of the Isles: Britannia Hotseat (completed, winners Myth and Zim)

Hey, is the last save posted is the right one? It shows as being from 03/08, same as the save before the rollback.

All taken care of and we're back in business.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=201&id=8856

Bah, a settlement that had rebelled to me in the previous incarnation of this turn didn't the second time around. ~;p

Ireland next.

wales!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...205#linkid8868

Scotland!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=205&id=8872

Norway's up.

So this was kind of a...momentous turn. I thought I should provide screenshots since what happened was so unexpected.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows Scotland and Norway are in a deathmatch. An attempt to prevent their taking Wick failed and I lost one of my armies, but I have some others and have been attempting to turn the tide, or at least last long enough to get the King and his reinforcements.

This turn one of my seafaring armies fought with them for control of Kirkwall. Their army was smaller but higher quality, and despite the disparity in numbers the comp gave us 1:1 odds

https://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1381...3241835376.jpg

Somewhat to my surprise (I lost the last "even" battle when I tried to relieve a siege earlier in the game) I won, and was somewhat excited to see the custom campaign map King sprite fall. Since there were no ships at the shore of the island to flee to, the whole army was destroyed.

https://img198.imageshack.us/img198/...3241835453.jpg

Then this came up.

https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/...3241836533.jpg

I guess all of Scotland's family members were in that stack...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=201&id=8881

BOOM!

:dizzy2:

Something like this came up in another game where a player asked me discreetly if he was allowed to block all the mountain passes providing escape routes from a territory before defeating an army so that it would be destroyed if it lost the battle.

I said if it happened by accident that's one thing, but to do it deliberately was another and he should leave an escape route - he countered by pointing out that in this exact situation there would be no escape route (because no fleet) and I admitted I didn't see a way around that...it's just hard luck.

I think there would be a difference between spreading small units around to prevent an escape and an army dying because it was on an island. Still, it does raise some questions.

If he had had ships parked at shore would it be an exploit if I had defeated ro sunk them? What if his army had retreated to them but the ships were then sunk, somewhat more like actually chasing an army down?

I'd like to hold the save for a bit. Since Scotland is right before me we could rearrange things somehow (I think that army had two fms, maybe keep one back off the island?) if Cecil would like. I know I wouldn't want to go for such a small mistake...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

BOOM!

:dizzy2:

Something like this came up in another game where a player asked me discreetly if he was allowed to block all the mountain passes providing escape routes from a territory before defeating an army so that it would be destroyed if it lost the battle.

I said he should leave an escape route - he countered by pointing out that in this exact situation there would be no escape route (because no fleet) and I admitted I didn't see a way around that...it's just hard luck.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zim

If he had had ships parked at shore would it be an exploit if I had defeated ro sunk them?

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I don't think so - you can't constrain someone from attacking a fleet for this reason. What if another (allied?) player who couldn't see the army on land drove off the fleet? My feeling is this is a risk you take when attacking an island or a province far away by sea where you have no continguous territories. You can always build a fort to retreat to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zim

What if his army had retreated to them but the ships were then sunk, somewhat more like actually chasing an army down?

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Still think this would be fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zim

I'd like to hold the save for a bit. Since Scotland is right before me we could rearrange things somehow (I think that army had two fms, maybe keep one back off the island?) if Cecil would like. I know I wouldn't want to go for such a small mistake...

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That's very gracious of you. I think the best option, if you want to give him an out, is to let him replay but simply build a fort there on the island that he can retreat to once defeated.

That's fine with me, although it will be sad to see my destruction of his army to try to turn things around become an ok military victory. :clown:

So in that case I would agree not to siege the fort this turn?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phonicsmonkey

That's very gracious of you. I think the best option, if you want to give him an out, is to let him replay but simply build a fort there on the island that he can retreat to once defeated.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zim

That's fine with me, although it will be sad to see my destruction of his army to try to turn things around become an ok military victory. :clown:

So in that case I would agree not to siege the fort this turn?

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It's up to you but by the rules you would be allowed to siege it. He can always reinforce it with another army to relieve the siege...

Ouch!

I say let it stand. I appreciate that everyone's willing to roll back the save and let me continue on, but I've been feeling like I'm in too many PBEMs to balance between V&V and Shogun 2 anyway. Besides, this kind of behavior is perfectly normal for the game, isn't it? I seem to remember armies sent to besiege small islands like Corsica and Sardinia also suffered complete destruction if they were were defeated while attempting to seize a province. This isn't the first time I've suffered a catastrophic defeat from a painfully obvious mistake (see my avatar and custom user title), and like those before it this failure provides a vivid experience to ensure I learn an easy lesson. Certainly it would have been perfectly easy to avoid, at the very least I could have accepted one of the many adoption offers I had received (didn't want to go any further in debt then I already was) and kept a family member somewhere safe. Besides, how often can we expect a Brittania hotseat to turn out this way? Unique situations like this should be taken advantage of and enjoyed.

And if you still feel bad for me, then write a public AAR like with the Levantine Struggle. I'd enjoy watching what happens to Scotland now. :laugh4:

From now on I will refer to Zim as the Hammer of the Scots

I've gotta say, this is definately an event that will be remembered, and a testament to the part luck also plays a part in hotseats.

I feel a little better knowing you had adoption offers. In the very first turn or so I was in a similar position once, with my only family member landed in Scotland (at least, I think the prince was it). However, believing there was no way that I'd do better than break even with you trading settlements, I embraced my debt and clicked yes on every single adoption offer. I figured I would go out poor either way, might as well try to do so with a bang. :clown:

You do me proud, my young apprentice...

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/...teyUeotOWw.jpg

MWUHAHAHAHA !!!!

Well that was unexpected!

Who's turn is it?

England, they said they'd be playing within the next day.

Aye tonight I hope, as i said the M2TW pc is not mine and I didn't have access to it yesterday.

Ireland, sweet Ireland.

edit: ignoramus has taught me not to leave settlements undefended, a lesson well learned! He has lost a family member for his capture of Oxford, however I would think the loot was worth it.

On a side note, England has mighty armies once assembled from all corners of the map. Such mighty armies have also put her in mighty debt at a hefty -10k. Britannia is a strange campaign, as Wales, England and Norway all headed for a huge debt and pretty much forced to fight and pillage.

I'll play the turn tonight.

wales up

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=205&id=8898

due to diplomatic confusion, Ireland will not be able to help either england or wales in their war, I will explain more fully when I am less tired.

England didn't know we were at war, but thanks for letting us know.

Er, no, that is not what I meant, I meant that you and wales were at war. see diplomacy thread. :)

Can Catapults assault stone forts?

Noway-Scotland!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=205&id=8902

I forgot this too, although I took no actions based on that.

- Siege equipment may only be used to open gates as follows: Ballista can open nothing, Catapults can open wooden walls, Trebuchets can open stone walls.

http://rapidshare.com/files/45528285...-6-England.zip

Ireland is up.

BTW Ignoramus you are a good M2TW player and strategist. You make the most of your situation and I admire that. FYI Caernarvon was mine this turn as I started, there was no need to assault. I also have a renewed respect for Wales in autocalc.