Why I hate Tories - with examples

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

I don't even know where to begin with this. I tell you what, you put up the deposit, and I will run.
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I will promise you at least one vote if your willing to run for my seat. In fairness my mum has had interaction with our local MP and he is apparently a good MP in her view but I cannot bring myself to vote Labour, in fact in the other thread I was complaining about my lack of voting options.

An independent I could believe in with no chance to win is the perfect solution.

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Our process is heavily weighted against independents. The only ones who succeed are those with a very strong popular agenda, national news exposure and a very unpopular incumbent.

By definition you would need to be a popularist and not be about the kind of measured, long term structural approach that I am interested in.

There is only one or two that I can think off, Galloway and I cannot even remember the other guys name who was the standing Labour candidate and had health problems.

Can't help but thinking the political parties are a terrible part of our democracy, if every MP was beholden to no party and amongst them elected a leader. You could still have groupings but based on an issue to issue basis rather than a party line... just some random thinking.

On the original topic I always had the impression when I was younger that the tory's were more prone to simplistic emotional response.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Using Swedish data:

Exactly when did human life span start extending? -Fair enough, during the industrialism.
When did human populations start rapidly increasing? -1750. The industrialism enabled to population growth to continue, but some agricultural reforms like potatoes, warmer climate and the stop of constant plagues and generally less epidemics did start it.
When did we start getting surplus resources to our needs? - Depends on defintion. The industrialism did increase the production that true, but it took much longer for the worker to reap benefits from it. Both during the induvidual's lifetime (marriage age increased drastically for example) and on a more general scale.
When did the concept of leisure time appear? -1936, after the socialist means of vacation and 8-hour days. You have to have time off from your factory to have it. Peasants had it when they could get away with it, often in the form of holidays. Peasants became much more devout when the times were well.
Romantic love? - 1600-ish. Shakespeare's works are at the end of an era. Now it didn't become common until quite a bit later.
Schools for the children of workers? - Illiteracy became illegal 1723 (or to be accurate. If your child didn't know how to read, you payed a fine). Full schooling didn't come until 1842 though, so partially correct there.

Sure, the industrialism and capitalism were gamechangers, but that list... :no:

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The agricultural reforms are really the precursors to the industrial revolution. The ability to farm more food with less labour is a key requirement as it freed up both people and capital for other investments beyond subsistence.

Schooling was not uniform throughout Britain until after the industrial revolution had come into full flight.

Leisure time became possible as productivity increased from subsistence to abundance.

These are all long term results of capitalism and industrialisation. It needs to be balanced by social responsibility and equal opportunity. One is the engine, the other the steering wheel.

As for primitive societies, the life expectancy is much shorter, decision making is generally by a chieftain class. Bullying is rife. As is rape, incest and anything else that the powerful choose. And no one is equal in front of the law. They were far from idyllic and they are not ideal, although they are idealised.

=][=
One of the few things that the industrial revolution shows, is that patents held back progress... something we should learn from today.

One of the few things that the industrial revolution shows, is that patents held back progress... something we should learn from today.
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Surely in a capitalist society it is the drive to improve yourself (wealth and lots of it) that drives such innovation making the patent process an essential part of progress?

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Schooling was not uniform throughout Britain until after the industrial revolution had come into full flight.

Leisure time became possible as productivity increased from subsistence to abundance.

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Both of these came almost 100 years after the advent of the industrial revolution. Mandatory half time schooling up to the age of 10 was enacted in the 1880s. It's only after WW1 that compulsory education up to 14 was enacted. That's as little as 100 years ago, 14 year olds were sent out to work. The age limit was raised to 16 in the 60s.

As for leisure time - Sunday was the only holiday for most of the 19th c. And then is mainly for religious observance. Halfday holiday on Saturday was much later in the 19th C.

Actually free-to-choose days off didn't appear until the 20thc.

I'd forgotten about the seed drill and Jethro Tull. I must be living in the past.

Ba boom tish! :drummer:












https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCyC1dZiN8

That explains why you advocate ukip. Badum tish.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

I'd forgotten about the seed drill and Jethro Tull. I must be living in the past.

Ba boom tish! :drummer:












https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCyC1dZiN8

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I think the problem is that you are thick as a brick ;)

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

That explains why you advocate ukip. Badum tish.

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Perhaps its because I left school 37 years ago.

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I think the problem is that you are thick as a brick ;)

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LOL

I prefer to think of myself as Minstrel in the Gallery.

Might break out a bit of the Tull this weekend.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Might break out a bit of the Tull this weekend.

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Aqualung FTW :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Idaho

And what if the misuse is no more or less than it has always been (fractional and insignificant) but that the issue is raised to boiling point by those with an interest in redirecting public anger about the misuse of public funds (banks)? How does your purist Lockian view look then?

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i dunno, it's not my problem to defend a welfare state that is losing favour with the electorate. :)

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

One of the few things that the industrial revolution shows, is that patents held back progress... something we should learn from today.
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Surely in a capitalist society it is the drive to improve yourself (wealth and lots of it) that drives such innovation making the patent process an essential part of progress?

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1) Even in the industrial revolution there were entrepreneurs who paid others to invent and then the entrepreneurs patented that work.
2) Every time a patent was expiring an abundance of new technologies, improvements and cheaper versions came out (much like generic drugs and 3D printers today).

Personally I think there should not only be a maximum time for a patent, but a maximum profit amount/ or percentage.
25 year patent or once 25 million in profit... after research costs included... Unless they were used for a tax break.