British soldier left to starve after losing JSA

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I have no idea how you could read that out of what I have written. Last time I was in Berlin all the toilet attenders were black, has this changed much lately?

Back in DDR days it could be your friends mom, these days it's just "blacks". Possibly with some arabs sprinkled in, but then women ,as the men are to proud for such work.



I prefer realist. A racist wants to put his race above others on a international scale, whereas I more nod and acknowledge racial differences as well as cultural differences, and have a non-bollocks view on how the different human groups co-exist (or fail at it).




Partly that.

Partly, however, I dare say there is now a "black peoples job" category in Sweden. Cleaners as an example, bus driver is another job that changes drastically demographically.

It kind of such having to work as cleaner.

It sucks even harder working as cleaner with you as the only white person on the job, surrounded by blacks and arab women.

I just call it as I see it, and that's what I see in Sweden today. Heck, it's what I see in Europe all over.



Yeah, alternatively you didn't try very hard understing what I was saying.

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And why are you still referencing skin melanin content as though it were a relevant to character, intelligence, etc.?

You want to ding certain cultures for a value set that creates antiquated or counterproductive behaviors and mind-sets, then have at it. A person's cultural upbringing can have profound influences on their subsequent behavior. "Race" isn't relevant.

Who exactly were the Jannisaries...hint, they were seldom Turks in terms of "race."

Ever read "Out of America?" You can get a good look at just how an American of African descent fits in with most African cultures.

How about entertainment? Is Mathers "un-authentic" cause he isn't an African-American from the "hood?" Or maybe, just maybe, the cultural imprint of the 8-mile district supersedes skin color?

Most 'black' people I see here are doctors and the toliet cleaner is 'white' (polish).
Does that mean that being a medical Doctor is a 'black' persons job, and toilet cleaning is 'white' ?

I never understood how this racism works, it is like they completely miss out socio-economic factors and think getting a suntan makes you dumber.Naturally, low-skill labour tends to be more present in poorer segments of the population because those jobs are not paid well, so they are poor. Working manual labour in the sun will make your skin darker than someone working in an office.

Before you say 'What is this about Sun-tans?', then do some reading about the East. It is the same trope that existed within 'white' populations too, but with the advent of 'black' slavery, its meaning changed in some areas. It is just that some people are ignorant of its roots.

I have a totally different experience to Kadagar when it comes to immigrants, because the demographics in the two places where I have lived (Scotland and Northern Ireland) are evidently very different from Sweden.

I've never seen a non-white cleaner in all my time at school or at work. Or a non-white bus driver. The people I see doing the lower-end jobs are always white. Go to a council estate and it will probably be 100% white. I see very few non-white people in general.

The handful of blacks, Arabs, Asians etc that I see tend to be well-off looking business people, that you would only see much in the commercial parts of the city centre.

So if I was just to go off this evidence, I would have to conclude that blacks, Arabs etc are the master race and whites are just poor untermenschen.

Guys, if you read or watch the 3 Musketeers, or the Count of Monte Cristo, the news is the author is black. His father, the General Dumas, was black and a slave during his first years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas-Alexandre_Dumas

So, the profession or the capacities has nothing to do with the melamine, but as Dumas' father proved it, as to do with the family environment and opportunities.
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/featu...masfather.html

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I have no idea how you could read that out of what I have written. Last time I was in Berlin all the toilet attenders were black, has this changed much lately?

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I've never been to Berlin but I think I've also seen white toilet cleaners here in Essen and elsewhere. However, being a toilet cleaner does not make one stupid per default and neither do a few black people being toilet cleaners mean that all black people only qualify as toilet cleaners.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I have a totally different experience to Kadagar when it comes to immigrants, because the demographics in the two places where I have lived (Scotland and Northern Ireland) are evidently very different from Sweden.

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I have been to Gothenburg, Lund and Copenhagen and I never saw a single minority. The bus drivers were all 'white', even the cleaners at Liseberg were 'white'. I did see something different though, a large percentage of blonde haired people. Perhaps it is different in Stockholm, as everyone mocked the capital like we do here and said "No no, you don't want to visit Stockholm".

Have to remember, the both of us are in the 'North'. Kadagar's experience in Stockholm might be closer related to London.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I prefer realist. A racist wants to put his race above others on a international scale, whereas I more nod and acknowledge racial differences as well as cultural differences, and have a non-bollocks view on how the different human groups co-exist (or fail at it).

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One thing is to recognise the current state of affairs, quite another thing is to assume that it will continue being that way and that it has always been that way.

Ah, good ol' racial realism....

Uh... a lot of people seem to have read me wrong:

I am NOT advocating that a job is a black persons job. Me personally do not have any ideas of what melanin formula should have which and what job.


Again: I am simply stating that what PVC hinted, at... That we have imported a new underclass.

I have also stated that it sucks for people ethnically from that country to be tossed in with that bunch of people (arabs and blacks) as society now, if not before, look down on those jobs.


GEEZ, give me a break here, and start reading what I actually write instead of putting words in my mouth.

I don't give a rats *** if its right or wrong to have black people and arab women doing all the ****** work... I am simply stating that those ethnic groups are the ones who get those jobs.

Rhyf live in a place with not enough of them around, trust me, would there be more brownies around you would see the same ethnic split on jobs.

It's the white flight syndrome in extreme, white people absolutely RUN away from a job that is mainly held by brownies, from my experience.


Heck, in sweden it got to the extreme where a friend of mine got actively told of to apply for a job, as that job was meant for Africans.

I just call it as I see it, and what I see is ****** up.



Oh, and about the rocket-scientist-immigrants-now-facing-manual-labour... Let's just say most Somali or Afghan immigrants aint exactly rocket scientists. Nor well educated.

Heck, nor even educated, like, at all.

The best educated Somalis or Afghans have like a year or so of Quaran school, where they mainly get taught to beat their women senseless.

Quite a lot of them are analphabets, and the majority have, like, grade 3 education or so. That's the men of course, the women are quite often seen as pack animals.

Let's also remember that education in Somalia does not live up to western standards, so even those few who get a higher education is basically = a moron compared to western standards.

I dare anyone to prove that wrong with legit sources.

http://www.unicef.org/somalia/education_56.html

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

The best educated Somalis or Afghans have like a year or so of Quaran school, where they mainly get taught to beat their women senseless.

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Unsurprisingly, this is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I dare anyone to prove that wrong with legit sources.

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You require sources, since you've brought a grand total of.....

Zero sources and nothing but your own prejudices?

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

And why are you still referencing skin melanin content as though it were a relevant to character, intelligence, etc.?

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Maybe my brain just works more like Kad's (could be genetic) but from where I'm sitting he's always talked about groups and perceptions, internal and external.

Kadagar has no time for non-Germanic cultures, to be sure, but his point for the last page or so has been about "blacks" as a group.

I have been to London fairly often and, yes, the bus drivers, ticketers on the Underground, the cleaners etc. ARE first-generation black immigrants, often from Africa rather than former colonies. They are, as Kad says, developing into a distinct social strata separate from the white working class.

People imported to work for next to nothing, crap jobs, crap hours, taking all the crap. It's like a modern-day form of Serfdom, enough to get by but never enough to escape.

And does that say more about the blacks or about the whites putting them into that place?
If they are refugees for non-economic reasons, a quiet job as a toilet cleaner in London may actually be preferable for them than whatever would happen to them in the country they come from.

And where does this idea come from to import an underclass of serfs? The multicultural leftists who keep asking for lower wages for everyone?

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Maybe my brain just works more like Kad's (could be genetic) but from where I'm sitting he's always talked about groups and perceptions, internal and external.

Kadagar has no time for non-Germanic cultures, to be sure, but his point for the last page or so has been about "blacks" as a group.

I have been to London fairly often and, yes, the bus drivers, ticketers on the Underground, the cleaners etc. ARE first-generation black immigrants, often from Africa rather than former colonies. They are, as Kad says, developing into a distinct social strata separate from the white working class.

People imported to work for next to nothing, crap jobs, crap hours, taking all the crap. It's like a modern-day form of Serfdom, enough to get by but never enough to escape.

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My problem is he just tosses it off with the label "blacks" or "black jobs." That kind of commentary all too easily trends towards stereotyping.

You, in three sentences, addressed the socio-cultural issues and spotlighted the potential downside of a co-culture developing in this fashion. If he'd done it that way, I would not have griped -- THAT kind of commentary leads people to think and evaluate.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Maybe my brain just works more like Kad's (could be genetic) but from where I'm sitting he's always talked about groups and perceptions, internal and external.

Kadagar has no time for non-Germanic cultures, to be sure, but his point for the last page or so has been about "blacks" as a group.

I have been to London fairly often and, yes, the bus drivers, ticketers on the Underground, the cleaners etc. ARE first-generation black immigrants, often from Africa rather than former colonies. They are, as Kad says, developing into a distinct social strata separate from the white working class.

People imported to work for next to nothing, crap jobs, crap hours, taking all the crap. It's like a modern-day form of Serfdom, enough to get by but never enough to escape.

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I can agree with that when you put it that way, but I think the big difference between you and Kad is that he is not so sympathetic towards blacks in general.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Rhyf live in a place with not enough of them around, trust me, would there be more brownies around you would see the same ethnic split on jobs.

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The problem is you are taking a demographic phenomenon that perhaps exists in the major financial/industrial urban centres, and trying to make sweeping generalisations across times and peoples based on that, even when they don't hold true. You can't call something a "black person job" just because black people tend to do it in Stockholm or London.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I can agree with that when you put it that way, but I think the big difference between you and Kad is that he is not so sympathetic towards blacks in general.



The problem is you are taking a demographic phenomenon that perhaps exists in the major financial/industrial urban centres, and trying to make sweeping generalisations across times and peoples based on that, even when they don't hold true. You can't call something a "black person job" just because black people tend to do it in Stockholm or London.

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I can be sympathetic toward black people. I really think we in the west should help build up Africa from scratch, as an example.



About "black peoples job", I'm not saying toilet cleaning is a job only for black people and everywhere. I am saying that in areas with lots of immigration of black people, they tend to trend towards certain jobs.

And when a job has gotten somewhere around 20% filled with blacks, all the white people get another job where they can be surrounded more with white people.

I just call it as I see it, I put no personal feelings into it.

But yeah, we are definitely creating a new under class, and we in Europe seem to do our best to overburden our wellfare system enough for them to crash at any day now.

A shame, really.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

I can be sympathetic toward black people. I really think we in the west should help build up Africa from scratch, as an example.

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Well after the mess we made last time I wouldn't be so confident about another attempt. Before we entered the scene Africa has some of the most impressive empires of the ancient/medieval world. I recall Mansa Musa of Mali fielding hundred of thousands of troops including heavy cavalry and he was said to be the wealthiest individual ever. Plus, China is already rebuilding Africa anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

About "black peoples job", I'm not saying toilet cleaning is a job only for black people and everywhere. I am saying that in areas with lots of immigration of black people, they tend to trend towards certain jobs.

And when a job has gotten somewhere around 20% filled with blacks, all the white people get another job where they can be surrounded more with white people.

I just call it as I see it, I put no personal feelings into it.

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Well considering their lack of education (coming from the Third World and all), it is not surprising that black people do low-level jobs.

Although I'll grant there may be something in what you say about white people leaving a type of job once immigrants start doing it. But again, any link with race is most likely only tangential. That trend could probably be best explained by changes in the work environment, for example a boss abusing his employees, because if they are immigrants he knows he can get away with it. Or the social stigma of doing what is regarded as a "black person's job". There may be more basic human reasons for it as well, eg not being able to talk much with your co-workers if they don't speak your language.

I just don't see why you keep evoking racial language surrounding the issue when there's no reason to believe that race is at the heart of the matter.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Well after the mess we made last time I wouldn't be so confident about another attempt. Before we entered the scene Africa has some of the most impressive empires of the ancient/medieval world. I recall Mansa Musa of Mali fielding hundred of thousands of troops including heavy cavalry and he was said to be the wealthiest individual ever. Plus, China is already rebuilding Africa anyway.



Well considering their lack of education (coming from the Third World and all), it is not surprising that black people do low-level jobs.

Although I'll grant there may be something in what you say about white people leaving a type of job once immigrants start doing it. But again, any link with race is most likely only tangential. That trend could probably be best explained by changes in the work environment, for example a boss abusing his employees, because if they are immigrants he knows he can get away with it. Or the social stigma of doing what is regarded as a "black person's job". There may be more basic human reasons for it as well, eg not being able to talk much with your co-workers if they don't speak your language.

I just don't see why you keep evoking racial language surrounding the issue when there's no reason to believe that race is at the heart of the matter.

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The bolded parts answer the underlined part, doesn't it? So it's ok for you to talk about black and white people, but not for me? You kind of confirmed exactly what I have posted here, so what are you arguing against really?

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

The bolded parts answer the underlined part, doesn't it? So it's ok for you to talk about black and white people, but not for me? You kind of confirmed exactly what I have posted here, so what are you arguing against really?

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So you are saying that when you have casually referred to these jobs as "black peoples jobs", you were in fact not suggesting that these are rightfully black peoples jobs (in the sense that black people and low-level jobs are somehow inherently suited for each other), but rather, you were making some deft commentary on social perceptions?

I am a little bit dubious of that given your track record. If somebody who frequently arques for "racial realism" and says that blacks have low IQs and that this explains the situation in Africa, then if that person starts talking about "black peoples jobs", what conclusions do you think I am going to come to? Would it be unfair of me to do so?

It's like you are trying to make edgy comments but then retreating when probed about it. I liked you better when you were just a good old fashioned honest, upstanding racist. You've changed, man.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

So you are saying that when you have casually referred to these jobs as "black peoples jobs", you were in fact not suggesting that these are rightfully black peoples jobs (in the sense that black people and low-level jobs are somehow inherently suited for each other), but rather, you were making some deft commentary on social perceptions?

I am a little bit dubious of that given your track record. If somebody who frequently arques for "racial realism" and says that blacks have low IQs and that this explains the situation in Africa, then if that person starts talking about "black peoples jobs", what conclusions do you think I am going to come to? Would it be unfair of me to do so?

It's like you are trying to make edgy comments but then retreating when probed about it. I liked you better when you were just a good old fashioned honest, upstanding racist. You've changed, man.

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Re-read what I have written in this thread. I thought I had made it perfectly clear that the "black peoples job" was about perception.

This thread isn't about racial realism or anything like it, it's about a failed welfare system and work system. I thus tried to be on topic.

We can discuss WHY blacks stand out when it comes to other topics too, of course, but this probably isn't the right place or time... I for one know that I would never like to have a job if it was filled with black people and arabs... I have noticed that the extremely vast majority of white people agree with me, in practise if not openly.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

My problem is he just tosses it off with the label "blacks" or "black jobs." That kind of commentary all too easily trends towards stereotyping.

You, in three sentences, addressed the socio-cultural issues and spotlighted the potential downside of a co-culture developing in this fashion. If he'd done it that way, I would not have griped -- THAT kind of commentary leads people to think and evaluate.

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Kad sounds like my Dad two drinks in - I assume Kad has been drinking - I don't believe he posts sober often.

Anyway - I got it, so he must be making some sense.

Blacks and IQ tests are also an interesting topic - and this is where Kad and I part company somewhat, because I see correlation there but not necessarily causation. Conversely, people who say there's "no difference" between different racial groups have never seen Usain Bolt.

It's also worth pointing out that IQ tests were designed for white people, by white people, against the backdrop of a white education system. We know that early education of toddlers etc has a profound impact on later development - so it's virtually impossible to test for a "stupid gene" between groups who are sufficiently insular culturally that they can be identified as genetically distinct.

Going back to Papa for a moment - he once told me that it went "Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, Arabs, Blacks". He wasn't totally clear on the last two - but having travelled the world and seen these people in their home ports, quite literally, he was disgusted by Africans in particular. You can argue for historic cultural abuses etc., but here we are now, this is the reality we inhabit and it's one where, across Europe and the US, Africans and Afro-Caribbeans devalue education as a "white man's game".

Personally, I think it's cultural - but that's hardly better.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Kad sounds like my Dad two drinks in - I assume Kad has been drinking - I don't believe he posts sober often.

Anyway - I got it, so he must be making some sense.

Blacks and IQ tests are also an interesting topic - and this is where Kad and I part company somewhat, because I see correlation there but not necessarily causation. Conversely, people who say there's "no difference" between different racial groups have never seen Usain Bolt.

It's also worth pointing out that IQ tests were designed for white people, by white people, against the backdrop of a white education system. We know that early education of toddlers etc has a profound impact on later development - so it's virtually impossible to test for a "stupid gene" between groups who are sufficiently insular culturally that they can be identified as genetically distinct.

Going back to Papa for a moment - he once told me that it went "Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, Arabs, Blacks". He wasn't totally clear on the last two - but having travelled the world and seen these people in their home ports, quite literally, he was disgusted by Africans in particular. You can argue for historic cultural abuses etc., but here we are now, this is the reality we inhabit and it's one where, across Europe and the US, Africans and Afro-Caribbeans devalue education as a "white man's game".

Personally, I think it's cultural - but that's hardly better.

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I post sober!! *occasionally*

You are right that we haven't found a "stupid gene", we have however found that excellent students often share some successful genes when it comes to learning... We have also seen what races, or ethnic groups, have them and to what extent. This line of research is hard to criticize, and it has showed the exact results that would have been expected. The spread more or less equals the spread on IQ tests...

So so much for them being biased.

Also, black USAnian students are closer to Africans in results than white Americans, so there is some weight to the nature over nurture argument... But of course, both nature and nurture plays in.

As to your last thing about you thinking it's cultural... Remember that cultural tendencies can have, and have, a direct impact on the genetics at times. IE, a culture who allows inbreeding will show detrimental results over time compared to a culture that doesn't.

Guess what cultures are into cousin hide-the-willy-fun...



Kudos for reading what I write instead of jumping on some PC bandwagon where you get your knickers in a twist over words put in my mouth... I wish more members here would have the same open mindedness.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

This line of research is hard to criticize

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lolwut?

Every single one of these "studies" have been picked apart, laying bare their flawed methodologies, cherry picked sources and other calling cards of pseudoscience.

There absolutely is no scientific consensus saying what you believe it does, heck there isn't even enough research done to draw hard conclusions in either direction.

The Bell Curve has been chopped up and dismissed as nonsense, while Richard Lynn has been properly put in the same category of cranks as Andrew Wakefield. Only white power groups pay attention to him nowadays. Oh, and that parapsychologist you sourced in an earlier thread was hilarious, and a good example of the type of cranks who pushes these sorts of ideas.

Hore, haven't you noticed yet that I don't reply to your arguments? Heck, I don't even read your posts.

I quite frankly don't give a **** about what you think, feel, or write. So stop following me around like some bitch in heat, would you so mind?




If any other members feel like discussing this topic I am of course up for it.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

lolwut?

Every single one of these "studies" have been picked apart, laying bare their flawed methodologies, cherry picked sources and other calling cards of pseudoscience.

There absolutely is no scientific consensus saying what you believe it does, heck there isn't even enough research done to draw hard conclusions in either direction.

The Bell Curve has been chopped up and dismissed as nonsense, while Richard Lynn has been properly put in the same category of cranks as Andrew Wakefield. Only white power groups pay attention to him nowadays. Oh, and that parapsychologist you sourced in an earlier thread was hilarious, and a good example of the type of cranks who pushes these sorts of ideas.

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Anytime a scientist or other academic argues that there are no differences between races, their arguments can automatically be dismissed because they are just being politically correct. Good scientists are the ones who know how to think for themselves and go against the mainstream.

If you want to know if a source is credible or not, there's no need to check facts or evaluate the arguments. Just see how the author feels about global warming, evolution and human biodiversity. If he or she knows global warming is a hoax, that life was created 5,000 years ago, and that there are real differences between the races, chances are the author is a credible scientist.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Hore, haven't you noticed yet that I don't reply to your arguments?

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Good, that means I can point out those of your ridiculous errors I wish, without having to deal with page after page of brain-dead attempts to back up your errors.

As for the actual consensus on race and iq, have some APA. Needless to say, they* are unimpressed by your conclusions.


*and by "they", I am of course referring to the world's number one institution on this field.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I have a totally different experience to Kadagar when it comes to immigrants, because the demographics in the two places where I have lived (Scotland and Northern Ireland) are evidently very different from Sweden.

I've never seen a non-white cleaner in all my time at school or at work. Or a non-white bus driver. The people I see doing the lower-end jobs are always white. Go to a council estate and it will probably be 100% white. I see very few non-white people in general.

The handful of blacks, Arabs, Asians etc that I see tend to be well-off looking business people, that you would only see much in the commercial parts of the city centre.

So if I was just to go off this evidence, I would have to conclude that blacks, Arabs etc are the master race and whites are just poor untermenschen.

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Same here. In the area where I grew up, there's plenty of poverty (for first world standards) and juvenile delinquents - almost all of whom are white. And ironicly, the PVV (i.e. Geert Wilders) is a popular party among those people. Maybe they're afraid of the competition or something.

Hore, still writing to me? I saw you quote me. What part of "don't follow me like some bitch in heat" did you misread?



Tuuvi, You seem to gather quite a lot of fields under one roof there... It is of course a scientists job to question things, but some moderation is in order.

Either you are trolling, or I am quite worried about you mate.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Hore, still writing to me? I saw you quote me. What part of "don't follow me like some bitch in heat" did you misread

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Report your grievances to the proper authorities, and they will surely take the proper action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

As to your last thing about you thinking it's cultural... Remember that cultural tendencies can have, and have, a direct impact on the genetics at times. IE, a culture who allows inbreeding will show detrimental results over time compared to a culture that doesn't.

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Well, in the UK, poor white boys now underperform poor black kids, even in the same school. That's apparently due to them indulging in "yoof" culture and the whole "school is run by the MAN" crap.

Correlation vs Causation - black boys perform poorly at school and share genetic markers - does not mean those markers are responsible for them choosing to be morons - because a lot of this is application.

Compare to actual Africans in Africa - or first-generation immigrant children from Africa. They are much more successful in the UK than the second or third generation immigrants.

[/quote]Kudos for reading what I write instead of jumping on some PC bandwagon where you get your knickers in a twist over words put in my mouth... I wish more members here would have the same open mindedness.[/QUOTE]

I read most people's posts here - even HoreTore's and Beskar's!