This thread is swirling dangerously around the commode.
One more personal insult, and it gets closed, and warnings issued. Everyone here knows the rules. Abide.
Printable View
This thread is swirling dangerously around the commode.
One more personal insult, and it gets closed, and warnings issued. Everyone here knows the rules. Abide.
The issue is not deporting muslims - since many are already citizens of the nations that they live in. And I would have to agree with Don locking up citizens because they have the same base faith of the extremists is not the answer. Just like it was mentioned that locking up Japanese Americans was not the answer. (And besides that one of the most decorated combat units was a regiment consisting of these very same people.)
I actually read this article twice - and think it has more insite on the issue then what has been discussed so far. Its not that the first generation immirgants are doing it - but the 2nd generation with absolutely nothing to do and looking for a cause misdirecting their emotions and anger because they find themselves in a culture they refuse to understand - looking for an identy which has been destoried by a few hate mongers within their own ranks.
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ar...ls.php?id=6992
Redleg , do you find it funny that the idiot in the interview you posted is a strong advocate of the implimentation of strict Sharia law , yet some of the bombers had convictions for theft , I wonder how well they would have been able to make the explosives without hands ? ~:cheers:
I say they should be rounded up and sent to the camps. And I don't really care who "they" are, just so long as their leaving soothes my exaggerated fears. Hitler may have been a bad 'un but he got some things right.......
Just the kind of bar talk I expect from undereducated (if not down-right stupid) bigots who, for all their hatred of immigrant "spongers and killers", are perfectly happy to fiddle the social and would, if they had the guts, justify Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech.
How unhappy I am to find such talk at the Org, most of whose members I had previously thought to be intelligent.
PS
Please spell "British" correctly, especially those who claim to have English as a first language.
I agree; Its funny how saome twist my words to their own design though. Saying that if this happened would be sad indeed now makes me small minded because I can see the cause or excuse for such an insane policy. That does not mean I support it. On top of that I have to be called other names. Read what I print not what you would like to believe I say.Quote:
Well, the interrment of Japanese-Americans was carried out with many of the same arguments, and I think we can all agree (well, most of us anyway) that it was a crime. We had no right or reason to incarcerate American citizens because their ancestors were Japanese, and we have no right to expel people due to their religion. If we ever resort to that... I'm going too because the America I'm a citizen of will be dead.
Easy now Gawain, I didn't call you any names, and I didn't twist anything you said. I wasn't even thinking of you with my post. Your answer was granted a bit insensitive, but I didn't think you were advocating expelling people, and I don't see how you're getting that from my post.
Yes indeed - it seems that he didn't see the contradiction in his philosphy when he was pontificating (SP) to the journalist in the interview. Expelling them from your nation does absolutely no good when they are already citizens - born in the country in which they now call for violence against.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
However I do find the xenopohic (SP) comments coming from some somewhat sad. It shows the fundmental failure of the new nation in welcoming the new immigrants into the nation.
Now that does not justify such hateful rhetoric coming from these so called muslims - since I don't see them as mainstream just the vocal minority to what I would assume is a rather uniformed majority.
And the worst colours (and logo) around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
But at one point their merchandise was selling more then the rest of the nations clubs combined... so both a good example of intergration and capitalism working hand in hand.
I do agree with you, although there are some issues with their business plan.
But purple and orange??
Purple... and... orange???
Who in their right mind chose that?
And I'm a member.
Easy now Don dont go puttting any horse heads on my bedpost. The only part that was addressed to you was I agree. How could you think i was accusing you of those other things. I guess I should have posted the insults but I didnt feel like repeatiing them. I know that you know me better than to think me so insensitive. Its fun I guess to demonise your opponents.Quote:
Easy now Gawain, I didn't call you any names, and I didn't twist anything you said. I wasn't even thinking of you with my post. Your answer was granted a bit insensitive, but I didn't think you were advocating expelling people, and I don't see how you're getting that from my post.
I think that the whole idea of ethnic cleansing misses the depth of the problem. The moment you target the group rather than the actions, then you have passed one of the very basics of an open western society.
Further more, "kicking them home to their home country" will also create a stream the other way. The middle east would have to change a lot. A country like India would be teared up with population movements beyond our imagination.
In history, the mix of groups, invading or not, have always created a trend towards peace.
Last thing would of course be the laready mixed families and groups. There are today a very large group of mixed origin, which in a ethnic cleansing would be without any real identity.
I would estimate a ethnic cleansing as described above would require movement or extermination of about 2 billion people........
If a 7ft tall black man commits a crime you dont go stopping female midgets ~DQuote:
The moment you target the group rather than the actions, then you have passed one of the very basics of an open western society.
If that were to happen we would no longer be a democracy but a mob.Quote:
Further more, "kicking them home to their home country" will also create a stream the other way. The middle east would have to change a lot. A country like India would be teared up with population movements beyond our imagination.
Are we a democracy now, i certainley beleive that were i live(UK) it isnt a democracy, we have been gaged by the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
You can´t compare US or Australia with socialistic European countries e.g Sweden. In US and Australia you have to work hard, there is pressure on you when you arrive to the new land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
In Sweden we have such a high social subventions that some people who don´t work earn more money than an 8-hour hardworking cleaner. It´s bizarr! How can you earn more by refuse to work!? So people come here from distant lands, moving in to a getto outside some of the larger cities, and then are unemployed.
I have all resons in the world to be angry with muslims. There are 17 rapes every day and the muslims are here heavy overrepresentated.
Here are some translated Swedish news for you all. I hope then you will understand what the situation is like. And remember, the media here is quite political correct, so the articles may not show the entire truth.
Malmo, Sweden. The police now publicly admit what many Scandinavians have known for a long time: They no longer control the situation in the nations's third largest city. It is effectively ruled by violent gangs of Muslim immigrants. Some of the Muslims have lived in the area of Rosengård, Malmo, for twenty years, and still don't know how to read or write Swedish. Ambulance personnel are attacked by stones or weapons, and refuse to help anybody in the area without police escort. The immigrants also spit at them when they come to help. Recently, an Albanian youth was stabbed by an Arab, and was left bleeding to death on the ground while the ambulance waited for the police to arrive. The police themselves hesitate to enter parts of their own city unless they have several patrols, and need to have guards to watch their cars, otherwise they will be vandalized. "Something drastic has to be done, or much more blood will be spilled" says one of the locals.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...529910,00.html
The number of people emigrating from the city of Malmo is reaching record levels. Swedes, who a couple of decades ago decided to open the doors to Muslim "refugees" and asylum seekers, are now turned into refugees in their own country and forced to flee their homes. The people abandoning the city mention crime and fear of the safety of their children as the main reason for leaving. 14 000 Swedes left Malmo 2003.
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10092861
ALL of the 600 windows at one of the schools in Malmo have been broken during the summer holiday. Window smashing alone costs the city millions every year. City buses have been forced to avoid the immigrant ghetto, as they are met with youths throwing rocks or bottles at them if they enter. Earlier this year, a boy of Afghan origin had made plans to blow up his own school.
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10090830
Rapes in Sweden as a whole have increased by 17% just since the beginning of 2003, and have had a dramatic increase during the past decade. Gang rapes, usually involving Muslim immigrant males and native Swedish girls, have become commonplace. Two weeks ago, 5 Kurds brutally raped a 13-year-old Swedish girl
http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=180423
I have more if you want to. These are all major Swedish newspapers.
I have relatives in Malmo and they confirm the situation. They can´t walk outsode when it´s dark, and to enter immegrantareas such as Rosengård, is totaly unthinkable. No doubt I will vote on the Swedish nationalistparty, the only one who dares talk about the immegrant problem. The only one who will kick ou the criminal immegrants. (Note: Only criminal, no more, no less)
The same thing is happening in Switzerland, although far more limited. 15 years ago, Geneva was the clean, safe plce which everyone associates with Switzerland. Shopping centres and train stations even had carpeting! Graffiti was next to zero and you could go almost anywhere without the fear of being mugged or anything. There was quite a large immigrant population, mostly well-to-do people from the Western world working at the international organisations and Italians, Spaniards and Portuguese working mostly in manual or low skill jobs. However, they all came from the similar Western Christian culture. However, things were not to last. Five years later, swarms of refugees from Kosovo and Bosnia came to Geneva, along with many Kurds "fleeing from Turkish oppresion". Immediately the crime levels rose up. The refugees from the Balkans traditionally had a very bandit-like and tribal culture, thus with nothing to do they turned to crime to supplement their income form the state (which was very high). A few years after that, Kurds stormed the U.N building upon the news that their leader had been found guilty ba a Turkish court for murder, treason and terrorism. In 1997, Zaire fell and Mobutu, its former leader, fled to Switzerland where he owned a lot of property. He also managed to bring many of his followers with him. Today the situation has changed. Places such as the train station and other once safe places are no-go areas at night. In a recent survey 67 percent of people never go to certain districts after dark.
The problem with Rosengård is that it has transformed into a ghetto. Hard to get job, hard to get out, and almost zero contact with the outside world. It doesn't matter who lives there, those areas is always problematic. Swedish immigration politics got big holes in it.Quote:
You can´t compare US or Australia with socialistic European countries e.g Sweden. In US and Australia you have to work hard, there is pressure on you when you arrive to the new land.
In Sweden we have such a high social subventions that some people who don´t work earn more money than an 8-hour hardworking cleaner. It´s bizarr! How can you earn more by refuse to work!? So people come here from distant lands, moving in to a getto outside some of the larger cities, and then are unemployed.
And please show your sources better:
Doesn't stand in your source. A simular (same?) case is described in source three though (although in that case it didn't matter, he would have died anyway. The situation is very serious though).Quote:
Recently, an Albanian youth was stabbed by an Arab, and was left bleeding to death on the ground while the ambulance waited for the police to arrive.
The only thing standing in this source is that 14000 Swedes left Malmö 2003. It also mention that 13000 Swedes moved into Malmö the same year.Quote:
The number of people emigrating from the city of Malmo is reaching record levels. Swedes, who a couple of decades ago decided to open the doors to Muslim "refugees" and asylum seekers, are now turned into refugees in their own country and forced to flee their homes. The people abandoning the city mention crime and fear of the safety of their children as the main reason for leaving. 14 000 Swedes left Malmo 2003.
Not in the source.Quote:
Earlier this year, a boy of Afghan origin had made plans to blow up his own school.
Not in the source.Quote:
Gang rapes, usually involving Muslim immigrant males and native Swedish girls, have become commonplace. Two weeks ago, 5 Kurds brutally raped a 13-year-old Swedish girl
Source on this one. Your last source mention 7 reported rapes a day, and while the actual number is higher, I would like to see how they came up with the number.Quote:
I have all resons in the world to be angry with muslims. There are 17 rapes every day and the muslims are here heavy overrepresentated.
Most criminal immigrants doing heavy crimes get deported already. And what are you going to do with criminals that is second generation? Deport them too?Quote:
No doubt I will vote on the Swedish nationalistparty, the only one who dares talk about the immegrant problem. The only one who will kick ou the criminal immegrants. (Note: Only criminal, no more, no less)
Gaged? Sounds painful!Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ragnar
Can you guess the year? Can you guess which immigrants they are talking about?Quote:
Immigrants are 'pouring in from every port,' according to the Daily Mail. One million are 'ready to swamp the West,' it warns. The 'scum of the earth,' says the Dover Express, while the Star claims the 'flood is sinking Britain'.
All from here:Refugee CouncilQuote:
British traditions such as the Morris Minor and the Mini, designed by Greek refugee Alec Issigonis.
'Meals on wheels was pioneered by an Indian doctor in Battersea,' said curator Sarah Jillings. 'Fried fish was a Jewish tradition and chips came from Ireland.
Idaho stop using logic and history. We all know they have no place in the heart of fear.
That is indeed sad. But the worst thing is, that the major parties refuse to see the truth. In Sweden, every on of the seven parties in our parliament satnd for more or less free immegration. The politicians, living in pure Swedish areas, says the immegration is "a blessing to our country" (Mona Sahlin). They are not the one whom having their kids beaten up and robbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry V
It is the youth in Sweden that are affected the most by criminal immegrants. It´s not a coincident the nationalistparty have their largest support among the young.
Ironside the ´sources´are only articles that the text are refering from. Not all facts are in. And what does it realy matter if the article doesn´t tell the origin of the guy. We talk Malmo here, Rosengard, and it is no Swedes there so what is your point? It is not 17 rapes a day. It is 14, my bad... (still not 7, don´t know what you got that from).
Our prisons are full of immegrants. They shall be sent home instead of sitting here, costing money for us.
I want to ask you a honest question Ironside. Just answer yes or no.
Do you think the massive immegration has made Sweden to a better place to live in?
Tell you what. Next time you are getting your office cleaned, or you see someone pushing a heavy wheelbarrow around a building site or someone washing up in a restaurant - go and ask them how much they earn. Ask yourself if you would do that job for that money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radier
... are you with me?
Now do you understand immigration?
Every society needs its low intelligence or badly educated workers. Wether they are natives or immigrants doesn't really matter. The trouble with Western society is that it gives these people the idea "You are better than this".
I don´t get your point here. You want immegration just because the immegrants shall do the hard work for us or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
What they earn or not earn doesn´t matter. First, what has it to do with this debate? Second, the market shall set sallaries, not the state.
And for your information I am a in-debt-consult and earn 8$ an hour. I know alot of cleaners that make more money...
Bingo, we have a winner!
Actually I would say Australia is a fairly socialistic country. Free health, University (deferred via tax if you earn a high enough income), welfare, money for having babies, progressive tax brackets etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Radier
I thought you wasn´t allowed to enter Australia unless you fixed a job there. Is that only rumors? ~:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
No, there is an immigration point system which takes into account skill sets, degree, experience and money... getting into Aus is hard, but not that hard.
Working Visas are different from immigration.
Surprised none of the Brits here have posted anything about this yet:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe...air/index.html
Quote:
LONDON, England (CNN) -- British Prime Minister Tony Blair has announced new measures to deport and exclude from UK for those advocating hatred and violence.
Blair, speaking nearly a month after deadly bombings on London's transit system, said Friday the UK's human rights act would be amended if necessary to counter Islamic extremists.
The government also plans to draw up a list of extremist Web sites, book shops and organizations that promote these extremists, he said.
"Let no one be in any doubt that the rules of the game are changing," Blair told a London news conference, his last before breaking for a summer holiday.
The prime minister said the Government plans a one-month consultation period to determine new criteria for excluding and deporting people from Britain.
"We will establish, with the Muslim community, a commission to advise on how, consistent with people's complete freedom to worship in the way they want, and to follow their own religion and culture, there is better integration of those parts of the community presently inadequately integrated," Blair said.
Blair said new legislation, which is expected to be passed by the end of the year, will also outlaw "indirect incitement" of terrorism.
The measure is seen as an effort to crack down on extremist Islamic clerics who glorify acts of terrorism. In addition, the law would ban the training of terrorist techniques in Britain or in any other country.
"This is not, in any way whatever, aimed at the decent law-abiding Muslim community of Britain," Blair said.
"But if you come to this country from abroad, then don't meddle in extremism," he said. "Because if you meddle in it, and engage in it, you're going back out again."
Blair named two radical Islamic groups that would be banned from operating in Britain -- Hizb ut-Tahrir and the successor organization to al Muhajiroun.
Later, a spokesman for Hizb ut-Tahrir said the ban would stifle "legitimate political dissent."
"There will be serious repercussions in terms of community relations if this ban goes ahead," Imran Waheed told the UK's Press Association.
"We have a lot of support among the Muslim community in Britain and it will be seen by the Muslim community as stifling legitimate political dissent."
Friday's announcement of new anti-hatred measures came almost four weeks after three bombs exploded on the London Underground and a fourth exploded on a bus.
Surprised none of the Brits here have posted anything about this yet:
Yep , what hilarious proposals he has put forward to be new law , completelty unworkable .
So is it a knee-jerk reaction , or just the reaction of a jerk ?
Under these proposals just about everyone in the backroom is guilty under these "laws" , also most of the politicians in the world . ~:confused:
Handing the terrorists a winning hand , well done Tony , heres to living in fear ~:cheers:
Quote:
Ironside the ´sources´are only articles that the text are refering from. Not all facts are in. And what does it realy matter if the article doesn´t tell the origin of the guy. We talk Malmo here, Rosengard, and it is no Swedes there so what is your point? It is not 17 rapes a day. It is 14, my bad... (still not 7, don´t know what you got that from).
Quote:
Varje dag våldtas sju kvinnor i Sverige, det är ändå bara den officiella siffran. Det så kallade mörkertalet är enligt all expertis MINST lika stort. Alltså har vi 14 våldtäkter per dag.
Considering that I got no problems with my alien neighbours (biggest problem have come from a Fin and a Norweigian, not the Kurds, Russians or Burmanese), they got jobs and the fact that borth my parents name is Valonian (correct? Worker immigrants from 1700-th century), do I consider the immigration to be good.Quote:
I want to ask you a honest question Ironside. Just answer yes or no.
Do you think the massive immegration has made Sweden to a better place to live in?
Is Rosengård a big immigration failure? Yes.
You live on that low salary? Man it must be tough to be kicked out from home at age 17. :no: ~;)Quote:
And for your information I am a in-debt-consult and earn 8$ an hour. I know alot of cleaners that make more money...