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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
But I think most Mexican flag waving is a result of Mexican(-Americans) feeling insecure, beleagered, insulted and humiliated. They flee into an excessive display of nationalistic pride. The more you attack them in their identity, the more staunchly they will stress it.
Exactly so. However the reason that others find the flag waving offensive is that they too feel insecure. This makes solutions to the problem difficult. There are close parallels with the problems associated with flying the cross of St George.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
It is interesting to see the difference in attitude on flag flying between the US and UK posters on this. For us, most of the references here are quite specific to support of the English football team in the World Cup, rather than general patrotism. First time I visited the USA I was struck by the flag flying, I have never seen a private home in Britain with a flagpole, and most official buildings don't fly a flag regularly. This isn't necessarily because we're inherently less patriotic than Americans, but because we do patriotism differently (would my fellow Brits agree that lots of flag waving would be seen as vulgar here?). The culture of the flag is certainly very different between the USA and UK, and it may be that the same is true for Mexico. I certainly would see immigrants as owing a degree of loyalty to their new state, but wouldn't attach the same expectations to temporary residents.
Oh, and on the points about councils banning English flags, locally at least some of the debate has been about the risk of flags on vehicles coming off and leading to accidents and law suits. Not an unusual fear in today's litigous culture, but daft imho.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
The whole concept of flags is stupid. They're useful on a battlefield, but I find that Americans treat them like holy relics. They displace energy they could be spending on community service (useful) to a piece of colored cloth (useless).
Americans have this annoying habit of caring more about symbols than the substance of what the symbol represents. Some want to spend energy and money making the burning of the US flag illegal, but are not willing to spend more taxes to care for citizens that need medical care and adequately fund the education system. That's the substance of patriotism.
If the immigrants feel an attachment to there home nation, it's in their minds, not on their flagpoles. Taking down the flag will not change that.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Tachikaze
The whole concept of flags is stupid. They're useful on a battlefield, but I find that Americans treat them like holy relics. They displace energy they could be spending on community service (useful) to a piece of colored cloth (useless).
Americans have this annoying habit of caring more about symbols than the substance of what the symbol represents. Some want to spend energy and money making the burning of the US flag illegal, but are not willing to spend more taxes to care for citizens that need medical care and adequately fund the education system. That's the substance of patriotism.
If the immigrants feel an attachment to there home nation, it's in their minds, not on their flagpoles. Taking down the flag will not change that.
What else would you use as a symbol of your country? :inquisitive: Yes, we armericans do care about our flag, it is a symbol of freedom and opportunity. What energy do flags take up?:inquisitive: It is already illegal to burn the US flag and that is a good thing. Americans do not spend more money on flags that healthcare and medication:no: , we barely spend any money on flags, most amercans own maybe one or two american flags that cost about $10, yea that is a lot of money. I agree that you can't change an immigrants attachment to his homeland in his heart and nobody should try to, but they shouldn't show their disrespect for our great nation by flaunting their flags in our country. :no:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Tribesman
How odd indeed , that you take many different people , some from many different groups , and place them ALL under the Altzan banner , or even under the ALL want to be citizens banner .
Ya. ALL.
And they all look the same too. :juggle2:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
What else would you use as a symbol of your country? :inquisitive: Yes, we armericans do care about our flag, it is a symbol of freedom and opportunity. What energy do flags take up?:inquisitive: It is already illegal to burn the US flag and that is a good thing. Americans do not spend more money on flags that healthcare and medication:no: , we barely spend any money on flags, most amercans own maybe one or two american flags that cost about $10, yea that is a lot of money. I agree that you can't change an immigrants attachment to his homeland in his heart and nobody should try to, but they shouldn't show their disrespect for our great nation by flaunting their flags in our country. :no:
Americans feel they are being patriotic by waving flags. In so doing, they are doing nothing to help their country. True patriotism is to give something of yourself (eg. time, money, etc.) to make the nation better and/or help fellow citizens.
Americans are displaying a false image by waving these flags, but really they want to spend their money on their own luxury, conveniences, and entertainment than pay taxes and take part in the political process to ensure those taxes are properly used.
The flags are a distraction away from true dedication to one's nation.
Funny, the Japanese have a very cohesive, well-operated society and I have almost never seen a national flag there. Maybe they're too busy to buy them because they're making a true contribution .
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
“The whole concept of flags is stupid”.
No. I remember when the 3 colours went up, the flag opening to the wind, the pride, the emotion it gave to me (and my comrades) when we presented arms…
The flag is a symbol, and sometimes it is worth to die from a symbol. It is not only a piece of silk, it why hundred of thousands, millions died for, fight for, work for. Not only soldiers, but the unionists, workers, teachers, as well…
The flag is the union between people of a nation who don’t know each others but share the same values, ideal or ideas.
It is the link between me and my history, the same colors in 1789, in 1805, 1848, 1915 and 1945.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Tachikaze
Americans feel they are being patriotic by waving flags. In so doing, they are doing nothing to help their country. True patriotism is to give something of yourself (eg. time, money, etc.) to make the nation better and/or help fellow citizens.
Americans are displaying a false image by waving these flags, but really they want to spend their money on their own luxury, conveniences, and entertainment than pay taxes and take part in the political process to ensure those taxes are properly used.
The flags are a distraction away from true dedication to one's nation.
Funny, the Japanese have a very cohesive, well-operated society and I have almost never seen a national flag there. Maybe they're too busy to buy them because they're making a true contribution .
Flags arent a distraction from one's nation, we arent obsessed with our flag, it just give a sense of unity and freedom for all americans. It is also funny that Japanes "very cohesive, well-operated society" lost WWII to who? By sending their youths into suicidal battles, yes that is a "true" contribution.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
Flags arent a distraction from one's nation, we arent obsessed with our flag, it just give a sense of unity and freedom for all americans. It is also funny that Japanes "very cohesive, well-operated society" lost WWII to who? By sending their youths into suicidal battles, yes that is a "true" contribution.
nicely said, both this and your opening editorial like post.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
Thank you, i am always ready to defend america from disrespectful comments.:2thumbsup:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
Sorry to burst your bubble... Comparison to Japan is IMO utterly irrelevant.
I imagine that the flag does indeed give you a sense of unity and freedom. As was mentioned before, that is good as your true freedoms and unity are obviously not as great.
~:smoking:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
Flags arent a distraction from one's nation, we arent obsessed with our flag, it just give a sense of unity and freedom for all americans. It is also funny that Japanes "very cohesive, well-operated society" lost WWII to who? By sending their youths into suicidal battles, yes that is a "true" contribution.
Just because Japan lost the Second World War to the West does not mean it has not a very cohesive and well-operated society. Things have changed in Japan in 60 years, as much as they did in the 60 years previous to WW2. They do not take to this overt patriotism as the Americans do to make themselves feel good about their country, they just know their country is good and are done with it.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
The real problem for the US (at present) is that everyone is so busy waving/defending the flag they don't do anything to stop their government taking away the very liberties which the flag represents.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm
Just because Japan lost the Second World War to the West does not mean it has not a very cohesive and well-operated society. Things have changed in Japan in 60 years, as much as they did in the 60 years previous to WW2. They do not take to this overt patriotism as the Americans do to make themselves feel good about their country, they just know their country is good and are done with it.
Yea, i agree my statement was a little out of date and that we americans are a tad over patriotic, but today is memorial day in the U.S. and the house on my street all have a flag in their front yards, it is a pretty cool site, so flags work for the americans and the Japanese mindset works for them, so we are both good.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
Yea, i agree my statement was a little out of date and that we americans are a tad over patriotic, but today is memorial day in the U.S. and the house on my street all have a flag in their front yards, it is a pretty cool site, so flags work for the americans and the Japanese mindset works for them, so we are both good.
Hey, nothing wrong with hoisting your flag on a national memorial day. That's a custom I believe most every country that uses flags would honor. :2thumbsup:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm
Just because Japan lost the Second World War to the West does not mean it has not a very cohesive and well-operated society. Things have changed in Japan in 60 years, as much as they did in the 60 years previous to WW2. They do not take to this overt patriotism as the Americans do to make themselves feel good about their country, they just know their country is good and are done with it.
Not to mention that the Japanese did, indeed, have a wave of hysterical nationalism leading up to WW2. They were as obsessive about their flag as Americans about theirs today.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
You guys are all getting off topic, this is about foreign flags in the U.S. not Britian. In the U.S. the American Flag is a symbol of freedom and oppotunity, people who we allow in this country should be grateful for the better life, they shouldn't go around disrespecting the U.S. flag by waving mexican flags all over the streets. I am fine with flying your birth nations flag, but maybe flying it equal with american flag would be a good solution.
Just a question:
How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Goofball
Just a question:
How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?
Good point.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
If you want to fly another flag above the stars and stripes or with out it there at all..... then leave! But imo state flags should be allowed to be above the US flag.
People say I cant say that cause of freedom of speech, but it goes both ways. you can put your flag up, and I can criticize it.:2thumbsup:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Goofball
Just a question:
How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?
It is about the same as a state flag in the U.S. the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
... the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.
They were? I know they are in now, but I thought the Confederates wanted out of the U.S. ... and then you people had a big fight over who gets to leave and who doesn't and all that, and some people died (abotu a million), and then it was decided that the Confederates cannot leave the U.S. because the group with the stronger army says so.
EDITED for clarification.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Keba
They were? I know they are in now, but I thought the Confederates wanted out of the U.S. ... and then you people had a big fight over who gets to leave and who doesn't and all that, and some people died (abotu a million), and then it was decided that the Confederates cannot leave the U.S. because the group with the stronger army says so.
EDITED for clarification.
I assume by your post that you arent american, is that correct? Sure the Rebs and the Union had their disagreements, but most individuals fighting each other didn't hate each other, they were doing their duty. Yes, the bigger army did decide the aftermath. The confederates are still part of our history.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
I assume by your post that you arent american, is that correct? Sure the Rebs and the Union had their disagreements, but most individuals fighting each other didn't hate each other, they were doing their duty. Yes, the bigger army did decide the aftermath. The confederates are still part of our history.
I'm not American, which is why I'm confused, if someone in my country started waving a flag of a separatist group, it wouldn't be looked on kindly. The whole flag waving thing I can understand, but, as I said, I'm confused when someone goes around waving around flags of a different country.
I understand that they are a part of your history, but, then again, it would be akin to my waving a Hapsburg flag from my balcony ... it's weird.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
Sure the Rebs and the Union had their disagreements
Now that must get the prize for great understatements .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball
Just a question:
How do you feel about the large numbers of southern Americans who fly the Confederate Flag with such pride from just about any antenna or dirty old truck bumper they can find?
It is about the same as a state flag in the U.S. the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.
That may be the most incorrect statement I have ever seen posted in the backroom.
The Confederates committed treason against the USA, tried to appropriate American territory for their breakaway nation, and started a war that IIRC caused more American casualties than any other war ever. And that is completely ignoring the fact that they were in large part motivated to secede by their "noble" desire to preserve the institution of slavery.
The Confederate flag is the symbol of all of that. To complain about immigrants flying their native flags out of a sense of ethnic pride but have no complaints about born and bred American citizens flying a symbol of treason against their country is nothing but blatant hypocrisy.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by Goofball
That may be the most incorrect statement I have ever seen posted in the backroom.
The Confederates committed treason against the USA, tried to appropriate American territory for their breakaway nation, and started a war that IIRC caused more American casualties than any other war ever. And that is completely ignoring the fact that they were in large part motivated to secede by their "noble" desire to preserve the institution of slavery.
The Confederate flag is the symbol of all of that. To complain about immigrants flying their native flags out of a sense of ethnic pride but have no complaints about born and bred American citizens flying a symbol of treason against their country is nothing but blatant hypocrisy.
I would doubt that that is the most incorrect statements, because i have seen stupider and more incorrect statements on this site. I agree that it sounds a little incorrect, but it does have truth in it. The rebs didn't commit treason, they felt that the rights of an individual state was greater than the whole country. The issue of slavery wasn't a huge issue until the war had begun and was in full force. Although it is a sort of symbol of rebellion, it is also a symbol of pride for what our country has overcome and how our country has healed and became whole.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
Goofball you brought up a good point, i dont wholehartedly agree with the waving of confederate flags in the U.S., but there is one fact that i can't get passed, that the Confederates were part of the U.S. before the war and they still are today. The mexican flag is not a part of the U.S. and is being waved partly by people who arent citizens in this country. I almost think that the illegal immigrants that are waving some of these flags aren't U.S. citizens so they don't have the freedom of speech and thereby cannot wave the mexican flag. I know it is harsh, but if they use the law to defend them, then the law can be used against them.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
I can't believe in the face of surging wage depression and grand-scale tax fraud, this and what language they're speaking while they rape us is what people care about.
:2thumbsup:
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by bettkicker19
Goofball you brought up a good point, i dont wholehartedly agree with the waving of confederate flags in the U.S., but there is one fact that i can't get passed, that the Confederates were part of the U.S. before the war and they still are today. The mexican flag is not a part of the U.S. and is being waved partly by people who arent citizens in this country. I almost think that the illegal immigrants that are waving some of these flags aren't U.S. citizens so they don't have the freedom of speech and thereby cannot wave the mexican flag. I know it is harsh, but if they use the law to defend them, then the law can be used against them.
Saying that they dont have the freedom of speech is a little harsh, but i do see your reasoning for it. That is also a good point that confederate states are part of the U.S. and mexico is not. And yes, the illegal immigrant do abuse the law the freehealth care and welfare systems that the law provide. Then apparently the law goes away when it affects them badly. As i said before if you want to come into the country, do it the legal way. Even if the wait is long, you have to realize that a country can only hold and provide for so many people.
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Originally Posted by Proletariat
I can't believe in the face of surging wage depression and grand-scale tax fraud, this and what language they're speaking while they rape us is what people care about.
:2thumbsup:
lol, i agree that it isnt the biggest issue, but it is more of a pride issue than economic. That is a good point though.
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Re: Foreign Flags in the U.S.
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Originally Posted by AwesomeArcher
It is about the same as a state flag in the U.S. the confederates weren't bad guys, they are part of the U.S.
...
The confederates are still part of our history.
Problem with implicit statements you end up following a trail of though that goes like this:
So does that mean that as Mexicans are not part of the U.S. they are the bad guys?
Lets see, it's okay to be a slave owner or the defender of slavery as long as you defend state rights.
But you are a bad guy for being a down trodden poor person trying to make a better life for your family.
===
Aren't Mexicans part of the history of Texas too? Surely there was like this war like between Texas and umm France... wrong point... oh yes like Mexico!
So by your own standards surely the Mexicans can fly their flags as readily as confederates... both of which at times have elements that state they want to separate from the USA.