Most (all?) of the bugged units do fine against other infantry, it's the animations vs cavalry that are missing/bugged.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
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Most (all?) of the bugged units do fine against other infantry, it's the animations vs cavalry that are missing/bugged.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
It is becasue they work against infantry... not so against cavalry.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
Ah i dident test them against cav, but i did test them against infantry to see if they had simmilar problem as the veg guard as far as loosing in matches they should normally dominate in.
Further complication, crossposting from the twc thread on the subject...
Actually, I think it's more complicated (i.e. bugged). I just had Highland_Nobles fight vs Voulgier, and noticed their animations were very similar to the billmen/DEK animation - despite being slashing/sword and piercing/axe respectively. In a weak-cavalry vs voulgier test, I noticed the voulgier didn't really fight, they just prodded occasionally, and spent more time stood upright, weapons pointing skyward. I modded out the shieldwall (phalanx) ability, and hey presto - they have no animation at all. I had a unit of Merchant Milita Cavalry charge (weak) into a braced unit of voulgier, and the voulgier routed after 20 seconds.
Actually, Varangian Guard will beat Dismounted Chivalric Knights too... That's not really the problem, the problem is their animation is so slow that they don't win by enough, and they lose to Zwei Handers who have worse stats than the Varangians.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
After switching their animation to the Janissary_Heavy_Inf animation, they even rock Dismounted Gothic Knights, so obviously the default animation leaves them somewhat weaker than they should be.
Interesting though, I just tested the Tabardariyya, and even though they seem to have the same animation as Varangians and other 2h Axe units, they seem to do a lot more killing (And it's not because of stats, because Varangians are better)... They can actually crush a unit of Zwei Handers, but only just barely. Their animation might be ever so slightly faster than the others...
Aztec Eagle Warriors also do surprisingly well, but JHI are unquestionably the best animation for two handers vs infantry.
Ok I finished the modifications... Unfortunately the file is 13000 characters too long to post here (Hehe, they have a 500,000 character post limit... learn something new every day ;) ) so if someone wants to host it for me...
I hope that if you've given the units with the 2 handed bug the JHI or Me_halberd_militia soldier thing that you've drastically reduced their attack as a result ot balance them. Those 2 animations are very useful in combat, hence why JHi are so deadly with an attack of 12. I reduced the attack of Dismounted English Knights by 13 to balance things out.
I didn't nerf their stats any. I'm not trying to balance them to my preferences, I'm trying to make them perform as well as their stats indicate they should (In other words, DEKs and VGs should be ripping other units to shreds)
You could upload the file here on the org...
But their stats are deisgned around the animation they use. At 530 florins a unit of DEK should not rip JHI at 720 florins to pieces.Quote:
I didn't nerf their stats any. I'm not trying to balance them to my preferences, I'm trying to make them perform as well as their stats indicate they should (In other words, DEKs and VGs should be ripping other units to shreds)
I'd have to know how to do that first ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraxis
Main page a few places wher it says files or upload... try them.
If CA does not fix this bug that means a big chunk of the available units will be left to the modders to fix and balance. I'm all for a good mod but leaving the community to finish your game is just wrong. We are playing with settings that none of us can honestly claim to understand. It is making unusable units usable again, but at what cost? Now dismounted english knights went from unusable to supermen. I just hope that CA will fix this stuff so the modders can focus on improving the game, not fixing it.
Thanks, got it now, and uploaded :)
Not necessarily - at least not in the campaign game. You have to balance the usual economic situation of the two factions as well.Quote:
But their stats are deisgned around the animation they use. At 530 florins a unit of DEK should not rip JHI at 720 florins to pieces.
I'd say that CA probably didn't test them a great deal. So, I think they should have a working animation and the stats they came with.
Well i've made a modified EDU where i've given the units with the 2 handed bug the "fix" described in this thread, and i've rebalanced the stats accordingly. If you do not modify the stats of the Dismounted English Knights, and give them the janissary_heavy_inf soldier they will beat every other infantry unit in the game, and quite a few cavalry units as well. And they only cost 550 florins. So i rebalanced everything accordingly, and i think it works well. You can find the file in this post:Quote:
Not necessarily - at least not in the campaign game. You have to balance the usual economic situation of the two factions as well.
I'd say that CA probably didn't test them a great deal. So, I think they should have a working animation and the stats they came with.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...7&postcount=61
I didn't give them the Janissary Heavy Inf animation... I gave them the Halberd Militia animation. I gave the JHI animation to all the two handed axemen, not the pointy stick dismounted knights.
Well they do have one of the highest attack ratings in the game and they are supposed to be superior infantry... I have not tested them much after moding them so I dont know if they are TOO good yet. Normally you would think that the animation would not really effect the number crunching going on behind the screen but the other way around...
I know but that's not true in M2Tw. Stats are very misleading.Quote:
Normally you would think that the animation would not really effect the number crunching going on behind the screen but the other way around...
i gave them all the Me Halberd animation and they were still lkilling machines. That and the JHI animation have very fast kiing moves so units with them can attack again and again.Quote:
I didn't give them the Janissary Heavy Inf animation... I gave them the Halberd Militia animation. I gave the JHI animation to all the two handed axemen, not the pointy stick dismounted knights.
Well, the Dismounted X Knights are obviously meant to be cavalry destroying machines of terror... So I think it's fine.
I may be wrong but dont the dismounted english knights use Halberds? So wouldnt their attack be just as fast as Halberd Militia? A halberd and a billhook are pretty similar right?
But they're not just cavalry destroying machines of terror, they're EVERYTHING destroying machines of terror(at least they were with the JHI soldier swap). Those units can beat anything. I've managed to rebalnce them so they perform well against can and infantry, whilst not being too strong compared to more expensive units.Quote:
Well, the Dismounted X Knights are obviously meant to be cavalry destroying machines of terror... So I think it's fine.
K just tested DEK this time giving them the halberd_militia soldier like you have. Im using them with my redone stats(designed around them using the Me_halberd_militia soldier) and they owned both D Chivalric Knights(who are more expensive, DEK have 87 soldiers left at the end) and FK(DEK had 78 men left at the end).
So they are still very overpowered.
dismounted english knights are a special unit like italian infantry... they should beat some more expencive units
With the changes in the edu i have, they can beat Dismounted Chivalric Knights(but it's close) and Feudal Knights, but they lose to JHi and Varangians.
and Dismounted English Knights are a key part of the main English battle line, used against both cavalry and infantry. I'd hardly call them specialised.
Cool, sounds like you have them pretty close to where they should be...
I didnt mean specialized, I just ment they are faction spacific and should not be compared to other factions equivalent units. The english are supposed to have superior infantry and that pretty much means DEK should be pretty wiked...
Yup, that's what im trying to do.Quote:
Cool, sounds like you have them pretty close to where they should be...
Unfortunatley the DEK are equivalent to Dismounted Portugese Knighhts and Dismounted Noble Knights(French). So they're hardly unique stats wise. Likewise the Armoured Swordsmen are equivalent to Dismounted Chivalric Knights.Quote:
I didnt mean specialized, I just ment they are faction spacific and should not be compared to other factions equivalent units. The english are supposed to have superior infantry and that pretty much means DEK should be pretty wiked...
The Billmen are the true unique part of the english infantry, and im working on making them more powerful so they become a more useful part of the army.
Yes but the DEK use a billhook/halbird so they should get a boost vs armor and cav that the others do not...
What I don't understand is why the giant, bladed halberds don't get a bonus attacking cavalry, and yet a bunch of guys pushing around a huge wooden cross on wheels get a bonus against cavalry....
The DEK use a Poleaxe. Something similar to a halberd but far deadlier. It has a axe to one side, a very long hard spike at the top and a mallet on the opposite side of the axe. Their just a little shorter then a halberd, but they are far more flexible. There was a good reason knights slowly began to fight more and more dismounted, the dismounted polaxe knights should definately be able to decimate almost any unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrapTower
As for the varangians and, other highly trained danish axe wielding infantry, they had some of the fastest attacks in the miedeval world. Usually they would be in a spaced out formation and would approach or stand and start swinging their axes well before contact. Their defense is that if the axe doesnt stop nothing's touching them. A lot of latter dismounted sabre technique's used the same method to fight with, quick 8 figured slashes that didn't stop.
The halberd's do indeed have a bonus vs's cavalry, they just don't have the spear attribute so it isnt listed on the units special abilities. It's a x8 or x4 if I recall correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer
I'd reckon giving the polaxe and bill hook units the halberd animation should be about right. Giving the JHI animation to lesser near peasant units of 2hd axemen may be a little overpowering though. Havent tested it, but maybe their low defense value's may help.