Interficio quod Scrupulosa [Concluded]

Senators:
I, Caius Flaminius, think someone here is causing a diseaster.We must be joined in this diseaster, 2 of us have been killed and we must be strong of this situation.

So, my vote is for Reenk.
His "ultimatum" is not the solution to kill the responsibles. Neither is acussating a senator without a good reason.

The unofficial vote count
Reenk-2(Don C. and Caius)
Kommodus-1(Ituralde)
Craterus-1(Aggony)
Ituralde-1(Kommodus)

In the interest of creating a tie and extending the round until those who haven't posted do so...
Vote: Ituralde

Senators:

Needless to say, I am disappointed so far at the speeches given. I will simplify my elocution for the plebeians among us and then set out to refute the slander against me shortly, however, I must attend to some matters presently...

Oh https://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6800/emotwtcae8.gif

I was going to wait and see who went after Kommodus, reasoning that they would jump at a chance to eliminate him. But he is acting so suspicious that I can't blame anyone for voting him, in fact

Vote:Kommodus

You are acting different and that's the biggest mafia tell we're likely to get day one. Your method takes a few rounds to get data. If you are townie it wouldn't matter whether you were dead or not. In the past you've only showed minor annoyance at getting killed or lynched. Your concern with getting lynched this game means you have a role.

Reenk was just messin around getting into the spirit of things. Ituralde had good reason for his vote. An innocent Kommodus wouldn't go after them for this, he told me in TGF2 that he'd given up on psychoanalysis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

It would appear that he misuses the word "collaborate." The word collaborate implies cooperation, aid, assistance. I promised no such thing.

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You withhold information from the Senate that could lead to the detection of the Rebels, why else would you do such a thing that ultimately hightens the chances of a Rebel win, if not to help them?

Furthermore doc_bean and I have brought forth similar arguments yet you choose to lynch me out of a grudge. You also haven't addressed the question of the Legate protection and why your life is so important to you in this game.
A dead Senator can still win the game.

I had followed a similar strategy to Sasaki waiting to see who else votes for you Kommodus. I have no intention of killing you yet. Killing Kommodus now would be indicative of helping the Mafia.

RL doesn't permit me to keep up this ruse any longer as I won't get to post before the end of election so I have to change my vote this early without getting more results.

Unvote: Kommodus
Vote: Abstain

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

3. doc_bean further suggests that my ultimatum sets up a lose-lose situation for the senators. Properly understood, this is not the case. If the rebels kill me, the senate wins - every weapon in my arsenal is leveled at them. If the rebels and the senate let me live, the senate wins - I still expend considerable effort in my search for the guilty; just not quite what I would have otherwise. If the senate kills me, the senate loses, for they prove themselves unworthy and ungrateful for my help.

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Now now Kommodus, now it seems like you are almost issueing a challenge for us to lynch you and see how far we'll get. I agree with Sasaki that your behaviour is pretty suspicious, however I'm not convinced you're mafia yet, and you ARE indeed a valuable player, so keeping you alive might be in our best interest, for now.

Reenk has been acting very out of character this game, then again, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, since he got so much critisism lately for acting 'in character'. Still, massive turn around, could be suspicious.

Ituralde went straight for Kommodus, but then claims it was only a ruse, could eb true, could not be,

I'll have to think a little longer about who should die. for now I vote:abstain, but hope to change that beofre the end of the day.

I'm not sure what to believe with Kommodus but I can understand where he's coming from. No one wants to be killed early in the game three games in the row. Until I get more evidence.

Vote:abstain

vote abstain

For the moment one can only guess. Kommodus did something nobody here did before and automaticly and logically drew attention to himself. This in itself is a great way (as a pro town role) to survive the first kills of the mafia. Added to this is the threat of the full use of his secret arsenal of mafia detection tools.
He, however, made himself very suspicous by using an unnessecary threat towards the town. I can't blame certain people to be very wary about such behavior. So I would suggest the preator to investigate Kommodus if he isn't lynched this round.

Voting Closed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

Voting Closed

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Oh man. That's unfair, I was busy last night and had prepared a really good post. :disappointed:

Csar Stood and cleared his throat, "It appears we have reached an end for this vote and 2 Senators have come out equal - both Senator Magnus Caput capitis, known to most as Reenk Roink and Senator Ituralde have 2 votes. To rectify this I once again open the floor, you may only vote for Reenk Roink or Ituralde,as always abstaining is an option - cast your votes well my friends"

Votes
Reenk Roink = 2 (Don Corleone, Caius Flaminius)
Ituralde = 2 (Kommodus, Jimbob)
Kommodus = 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
Craterus = 1 (Aggony Duck)
abstain = 5 (GeneralHankerchief, Ituralde, Doc_bean, DestroyerofHope, Peasant Phill)

Vote are open until tomorrow at noon

sorry Reenk i was actually 30 minutes past the deadline so was closed late...

Um... gah? I don't think the person being lynched this time has more than two votes.

Why are so few people voting?! :help:

It looks like I'll sqeak by this round, with only one vote against me (thank you very much Sasaki), but I'm not exactly what you'd call satisfied with that. Sasaki's right - participation = townspeople victory, while lack of participation = mafia victory.

I guess it's the holiday season; I'm sure my participation level will drop a bit in the coming weeks too. Still, there aren't many valid excuses for not even showing up. This game has fewer people than usual; that means the town has fewer chances. The mafia only need to survive six rounds at most - and that's assuming no mod-kills.

That's all I have to say about that...

As for Sasaki's accusation - yes, my behavior's changed for this game. Blatantly. And yes, I know that the goal here is not to survive, but to win; and further, I'm well aware that I can help the town even when dead. Heck, I'm one of the first ones here to say those very things - way back in Mafia II.

I play these games for the intellectual challenge. I've proven I have the ability to identify mafia - multiple times. However, survival has been a bit more elusive. I've been killed quickly in three straight games, and out of seven games I've survived only one - Mafia IV in which my tool nailed the mafia too quickly for them to kill me.

So this time I decided to try an experiment. I'm trying something that has never been tried before, just to see how well it will work. If no one ever tries new experiments, nothing new is ever learned. If I die because of it, so be it.

But remember, my promise still stands. You lynch me, I'm out - you'll have wasted a lynch thrown away one of your most helpful players. The mafia will probably win if you do this.

EDIT: Oops, I started typing this before Sir Moody's announcement of the tie. Hm...

Ituralde withdrew his vote for me, sparing me the unpleasantness of being part of a three-way tie. He's probably innocent.

In all honesty, Reenk is probably innocent too, but he seems (to me) to be the better bet. Besides, he has yet to die early in any game AFAIK. We may as well get this first round over with. Sasaki's right - my methods all need data in order to work.

Vote: Reenk Roink

The post that won't matter:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Addressed to the plebeians who cannot understand secondary school rhetoric:

My original post was an evaluation of the situation as Kommodus’ post was suspicious or at least odd, no?

Please reread these statements, or ask your mommy to read it to you:

“If you do (kill me), you can be sure that my full powers of deduction will be leveled against you. I'll take out all the stops, and you will certainly not escape. If, on the other hand, you allow me to live for a reasonable amount of time (say, four or five rounds), I may have mercy on you.”

“If you do (lynch me), you'll get no help from me. None. I'll figure out who the rebels are anyway, but I won't say a word, except to laugh at your bumbling attempts when you lynch innocent people. I'll understand if you find me suspicious later in the game and choose to lynch me (after say, four or five rounds). But show a little respect for my intelligence and don't off me with your usual knee-jerk reaction to everyone that tries to be helpful.”

Now, essentially, if Kommodus is a senator (that is in doubt), then doesn’t he seem like a very selfish person? After all, his help is conditional on how others treat him. I say good riddance to that.

Now, Kommodus was not killed last round. This can either mean:

1) Kommodus is a rebel, and cannot be killed by rebels.
2) Kommodus is a senator and intimidated the rebels into leaving him alive.
3) Kommodus is a senator and the rebels just didn’t care enough/at all about his post.

Now, if it is either 2 or 3, and Kommodus remains alive for several rounds (he’s already passed his biggest hurdle in round one), then he will be no help to us anyway, as stated by himself personally. He may even be grateful to the rebels and mislead us.

All of this is also discounting the fact that Kommodus may very well be a rebel, and certainly is one of the top suspects if not the main one.

Reenkaficsio doesn’t play this ****.

Now, back to present matters…

Addressed to the people who slandered me (Don Corleone and Caius Flaminius):

So you think me more worthy of a vote than Kommodus. This belief in itself is self refuting. Kommodus is clearly more suspicious than my flamboyant and eccentric self. I will indulge with you no longer because I have lost all hope for your reformation of character. I hope Thracian slaves eat your children! :stare:

Addressed to the Rebels:

Rebel slaves, your actions herald great news for us senators. You are either:

1) Timid as hell and thus easy to suppress. Your flimsy limbs may cause problems in your crucifixions however…
2) In league with Kommodus, in which you have drawn attention to him from now on. Do not expect Kommodus to be alive by the end, whether it be a triumph for the senate or the rebel slaves.
3) Aloof from it all. (least likely)

1 and 2 are clearly more plausible than 3, so I am unconcerned by you. As far as I can see, you are as much a threat as a one armed Samnite warrior with crappy triple disc armor.

Addressed to the rest:

My fellow senators, we must eliminate Kommodus this round. He stands above and beyond any other as a most plausible rebel. Now, I see that not many of you are taking a stand to defend me, Reenkaficsio. Some even think me suspicious and two slander me. Why? Because I am outspoken? Because I act instead of remaining passive like a woman or Persian? I ask you to recall, senators, that it was because of people like me that the menace of Carthage was finally snuffed out. If others had carried the day in the assembly, Rome would be a Punic colony thanks to a revitalized Carthaginian empire. It runs in my blood, the ability to act decisively. It was my father at Pydna, who rallied the troops that ran from the Macedonian onslaught and crushed them when they advanced on the broken and hilly terrain in pursuit. It was my grandfather at Cynoscephalae who broke through the left wing of the enemy and then attacked the right wing from the rear, sealing victory. So if you really want to kill Reenkaficsio, so be it. For my part, I want to kill the rebels, and there is no one who is more likely to be a rebel than Kommodus!

Vote: Kommodus

Edit: Hmm, it seems I won't be lynched (just yet). Ok, well I won't vote for Ituralde just yet, because I think it's Kommodus...

Interesting to see how Kommodus votes for me before I voted for him... :wink:

By the way Kommodus, I have died early in two of the three games before Mafia V.

Hmm, damn, I was a little preoccupied and forgot to actually vote for someone. Partly because I have no idea who to vote for this early, of course.

I don't know much about Ituralde, is this his first game or have we just been playing in different games ? His attack on Kommodus makes him somewhat suspicious, but then it could have been well intentioned.

Reenk really seems to make an effort this time, and that's not like him (sorry Reenk I know i've been one of the people most vocal against you abstain policy, and now I'm the one who has abstained :shame:).

Please people, post your thoughts, I need more to go on in order to chose, they both seem somewhat suspicious to me, so we might have a chance of hanging a mafiosi today.

Can someone abstain in this votation or i have to select only one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caius Flaminius

Can someone abstain in this votation or i have to select only one?

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You're allowed to abstain AFAIK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

By the way Kommodus, I have died early in two of the three games before Mafia V.

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Ah, my mistake then. Refresh my memory - which games were those? I seem to remember you lasting quite a while in games like Mafia III and Cosa Nuova. You also survived Mafia IV; I don't remember how you fared in the Godfather series.

Seeing as I got into this situation by voting for Kommodus and then pulling back and having JimBob vote for me to create a tie, I really have little to say in my defense.

Anyone who has followed the thread should know that I targeted Kommodus because he acted suspicious/different. I withdrew my vote because I see no gain from lynching Kommdous.

Since someone has to die in the first round to get the game going and the chances for getting a Mafia first try are pretty low, I don't see much harm in lynching an innocent like me. It happens in most games anyway.

Reenk Roinks statements don't sound too suspicious too me either. Really sad that the two people standing on trial are the ones that have participated a bit more and stated their oppinions. No wonder so many didn't dare post or draw attention the last round.


My Dear friends! Fellow Senators!

With much grieve do I note that my open speculation about one of our own has put me in this dire situation with my comrade Reenk Roink. As one of us has to perish at the end of this day, self-preservation is the only option available to a true Roman. So I will have to cast my vote on Reenk Roink, though I beleive him innocent and would much rather have one of my apparently deaf and mute colleagues standing there, who were probably to engrossed in plotting their next kills to participate in our noble discussions.
If I die this day, know that my death will not be the end and my guidance shall still come to you.


Vote: Reenk Roink

Reenk, I don't know if you're engaged in a failed attempt at humorous role-playing, but insulting me and calling me names, let alone misrepresenting my argument, is NOT going to get me to change my vote. As you're normally a pretty rational fellow, all it's doing to to is cement your guilt in my mind.

1) I BEGAN my post talking about how suspicious Kommodus was. I also concluded, for you to see (talk about needing reading lessons) that he was being too obvious.

2) You on the other hand insult the mafia and basically dare them to kill Kommodus. You stated that if the mafia didn't rise to your challenge and kill Kommodus, then Kommodus must be one of the mafia. How could you possibly have known ahead of time that Kommodus wasn't going to get assasinated? It looked (and even more so now) to me as though YOU knew he wasn't going to get assasinated, and YOU were trying to find a patsy to lynch in round one.

3) In every game up until the New Mafia and Mafia V, you've been big on abstaining, only answering challenges when somebody pointed a finger at you. In the last 2 games, you started acting very pro-actively. Surprise, surprise, you were mafia in both games. Now here you are doing it again.... what am I supposed to think?

4) I told you my mind was not hard and fast. I told you if I my thinking was flawed, explain to me where I went wrong. Instead, you decide to insult me and belittle me, saying that I don't even have a secondary school education. Kiss my ___, buddy. You're now #1 on my list from here on out.

Vote: Reenk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reenk

My fellow senators, we must eliminate Kommodus this round. He stands above and beyond any other as a most plausible rebel.

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Uhm, statistically we all have the same chance of being selected as a rebel. A statement can't change that. it can only change the way how you feel towards a person's posts.

:balloon2:

Wait a minute... I think I'm being played. Why would Reenk act like this, unless he WANTS me to vote for him.... giving him what he wants just plays into his hands.

I don't know what kind of game you're playing Reenk, but until I figure it out...

Unvote: Reenk
Vote: Abstain

:wall:

We're lynching two innocents here...

Vote: Reenk

No offense my dear Wanax, but I would like it if we got some later-game help from Kommodus. Sorry my good Senator. :no:

Errm this is getting out of hand...

Don (and potentially any others) I wasn't insulting you. I was kidding and going along with the game (just like your STFS thing). I really like the Roman themed thing, and just though I would have some fun by acting like a pompous senator. However, I'm terribly close to getting executed now, I guess my fun has ended. :shrug: :sad: Do host another one soon Sir Moody, I'd like to play this type of game again.

To address a few other things:

1) I never said that Kommodus was a rebel because the rebels didn't kill him. I'm never that absolute in these games. I put it forward as a possibility. I still think Kommodus is the best one to lynch (no offense Kommodus, but my reasons are in the spoilered post).

2) I don't know why people make such a big deal about me changing character. I do it so frequently in these games that it should be surprising when I do not change character, Early on, I started as a bad villager, adding people to the List. Then I had a change of heart and made a Fan Club. Then I started just lurking for a bit, and then abstaining, courteously when hosts got mad at lurkers. Then I stopped abstaining cause people got mad at me for abstaining and just voted for people, giving my reasons and explaining a lot, becoming incredibly more active than in any other game. Now I'm becoming a prick again like I started, but I'm trying to save the senate with my attitude. You track the personality changes; they happen when I'm Mafia and when I'm not.

3) Purely statistically, everyone has an even chance of being a rebel at all times. When Kommodus pointed me out in Mafia V, I still was (statistically) equally likely as all of you to be Mafia. Other things play a huge role in these games. Relying on stats alone is fallacy.

4) You can just not vote or abstain like me if you think I'm innocent by the way. I didn't vote for Ituralde because of that reason. Maybe we can get by without a lynch this round. (This means you Kommodus, Ituralde, and GeneralHankerchief).

5) Do read my spoilered post again. I think it contains valuable information on how to proceed. If you want, ignore the fun character and just read the info.

6) Before Mafia V, Sasaki's Black Hand games both ended quickly for me. In the first one, the whole town got destroyed, and in the second one, I was lynched early for abstaining, courteously. In Mafia IV, the game ended very early again. In The Godfather I, I was killed by Mafia in the 3rd round. Only in Mafia III, Sasaki's first Mafia game, and Cosa Nuevo did I survive long as a townie (in the first because I was a newbie and ignored (until my List), and in the second and thrid because I posted little and didn't vote much).

I'll be going now; sad that I can't continue in this game...

By the way:

Vote: Abstain, courteously :bow: and in spirit Vote: Kommodus!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AggonyDuck

I do not think that it is in our advantage to abstain now. Thus I will cast my vote on someone and I've decided to cast my vote on Craterus. He has an uncanny ability to survive far in to the game, without really much posting anything and remaining as a great unknown throughout the whole game.

Vote: Craterus

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Do you have something against me? A kill request in Black Hand 2 and now a "random" vote on me. So, maybe you could PM me about your grudge, cos I think I'm onto something here.

Vote: abstain
They're clearly both innocent and, in my eyes, Kommodus should be getting the lynch at this stage. Getting all self-important and childish... tssss. :zzz:

~;)

Sadly the game at this phase is very much like a lottery. You choose someone at random and hope that they are rebels. One thing though; the voting based on suspicious behaviour might not be the best option. I believe it is far more common for the rebels to continue acting as they have done previously, than to drastically change their behaviour.

Craterus, I don't have anything against you except the fact that you have a tendency to stay under the radar and survive to the endgame. I've already played a couple of games where you have been a "unknown" at the end game and I'd rather not have such a situation again.

EDIT: Forgot my vote. My vote goes for Reenk Roink. Of the two he is the one being a bit more suspicious, although what value that has remains to be seen.

Vote: Reenk Roink

So, before I had the chance to make two posts in this thread, I am slain by the despicable rebels.

Not only does go against the long standing tradition of killing me off at the very end of the game, it does my constitution no good.

In vengence, then, I shall work from the dead to hunt down these rebels and give them a rebel's death. I shall not rest until they are undone, slain, their estates razed and their lineage destroyed.

I retire momentarily, to analyse the transpirings. But I shall make them deeply regret their slaughter of mine person.

CR
PS

Quote:

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Vote: Abstain, courteously

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What in hell goes on in New York?!:laugh4:

Senators:
I cant tolate this!.First, an opinion who says "Lets kill Kommodus, because I want" and second a quote:

Quote:

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I hope Thracian slaves eat your children!

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Is this a threat?The Senators doesnt make threats.
You are making a big mistake, and the worse thing is you are making twice.My vote(again!):

Vote:Reenk
He hasnt demostrated Kommodus is a rebel.Why he is saying that?
I want an Explication

Caius Flaminius

wth they're both innocent. It's quite likely that Kommodus is guilty so I'll

Vote:Ituralde

because Reenk seems likely to vote for Kommodus.

Vote:Ituralde

His vote and quick retraction struck me as more suspicious than Reenk's roleplaying. Sadly, I dithered too long to get in on the initial round of voting... :shame:

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.