Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

This is completely unrelated to several topics but about random unit spawning

I was about take North Santo (province north of the Takeda captial) from the Ikko-Ikki, and although I was in the province I was still a turn away from besieging the castle. Then out of seemingly no where an army of 6 fresh ashigaru units (3 yari and 3 yumi) accompanied by 2 fresh Murakami family generals (the clan had been destroyed for more then several turns by now) took the province and I was booted out for "tactical withdraw".

I'm guessing this explains how every now and then a "New clan has raised" but I do not think that was fair.

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

(Sorry about the few sources, but this what I've come up with so far and if you think it is insufficient I can do more research.)

From what I gathered it seems like you could go either way and either both decisions would and wouldn't make sense historically mainly because cannons were not used commonly as siege weapons but rather against soldiers, ironically they were more likely to be mounted on castles then shot at them.

But as far as "could" any clan have gained accesses to cannons it seems likely because closer towards the end of 16th century gunsmiths in Japan were catching up to Europeans and even in some cases were more advanced (e.g. some matchlocks crafted in Japan were designed in a way that allowed them to fire in the rain, such designs re unknown in Europe during the period).

And Japanese cannon technology improved greatly from around the 1570s with cannons shooting a shot of about 10oz to 1610s where they shot weighed around 18lbs..
If you believe the cannons in STW2 are somewhere in the middle of this with destructive power then I would say it would be justified to have them.

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Your research-results are good enough, Tyler, thanks. I'll remove the religion requirement, and will look that they become not available too soon in the campaign (and heavily capped anyway).

cool, glad I could contribute to the mod in some small way!

but hey did you read my post about the random Murikami clan spawn?

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

cool, glad I could contribute to the mod in some small way!

but hey did you read my post about the random Murikami clan spawn?

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Why "fair"? The mod shall not be fair ;)
In fact, this is vanilla basic and mod setting unrest model, but as far as i can experience, the sudden clan-uprisings have decreased in the S2R+ mod. If it still happens now and then, i'm rather glad about it, it's still a challenge feature.

Ok I think understand your point, and from a realistic view it does make sense to have unpredictable events happen like that especially in a time of civil war.

1. Have you thought about making it easier for generals to level up? I do not know at all how experience is gained but seems like barely any experience is gained for castle defenses and overall it just take forever to level up. I think the highest I ever got was a level 4 general

2. Also what's your opinion on weapon(max adds like 4 or more attack) and armor(max adds 4 or more defense) smiths? Does it reflect the overall strategy of the campaign map vs how that affects battles or is it a little stupid?

3. Any idea where you guys are with the intense game testing? I bet I'm not the only one who checks the forum daily for updates!!!

For now re 3.: Since the release 1.97, i work intensive together with GShock on improvements like

- Global balancing, means how are doing the major AI factions (major = playable). Goal is still for example to keep Shimazu, Oda, Mori and also Takeda or also Ikko and Uesegi in the game, as long as possible (this is one of my main personal goals, which i testify via Chosokabe H difficulty test campaigns, while i adjust several relevant code-values).
- Besides the goal to keep the campaign a financial challenge (nothing is more boring as to have infinite money available).
- GShock is focusing on Shimazu-playtesting (aside to several general observations which motivate me to look at certain very relevant things), just how he can make it as Shimazu player, and recently his experience is that the financial challenge is too high, and progress wasn't possible, but he tested there on VH. Now he shall playtest on H, and we'll see.
- At present a focus is again the battle/combat mode, we wanna improve some things there (realism backgrounds, but adjusted with gameplay backgrounds, the latter thing is more important).

Achieved by now, roughly:
- Added is the Oda-Tokugawa vassal mod, it'll be firm part of the mod, because this finally solves the Oda-vanishing issue.
- The global balance is greatly improved (major keyfactions in AI hands make it better than ever without that certain majors steamroll everything, but certain AI's still have issues, final adjustment is needed).
- The financial challenge is increased.
- The diplo-behaviour is greatly improved, factions trade with each other and keep alliances (of course backstabbing happens still).
- The general CAI is greatly improved.
- The battle mode challenge is pretty much improved, according to GShock one mistake in your tactics can lead to your defeat.

All this is done with the incredible help by GShock, who motivated me greatly to realise the current enhancements.

All in all, along GShocks experience with Shimazu on VH, the challenge in S2R+ is unparalleled. As said, at present (dev version) we have to look if i went overboard with the current campaign-challenge-degree, especially in regard of the cashflow model, easy adjustments to re-enable progress are possible though, but first i need his reports with difficulty H.

Release v1.98 earliest in one week, which is then to see as one of the last open beta versions on the way to final v2.0.

Hope this explains enough the current dev stage.

Thank you for heads up DaVinci.

Eagerly awaiting the next release - knowing your mastery it's hard to wait he he.

One a side note - I don't like how short distance armies can make. Any particular reason for this? Isn't the AI better off if it's reach is bigger?

You have made 2 different Yari Ashigaru unit types. Pure peasants and a more drilled steady army. It's a bit annoying to have the same name and same icons for both.

In my Date campaign I had a foe sneak in my territory but that army just stand there for many turns. When I went after it they started to retreat to their own province. They were standing next to farming building and haven't demolished it. Dunno if this is vanilla (since I haven't played much) or if this is introduced with your mod.

Having a blast otherwise!

Movement points are slightly reduced to slow down steamroller effects, ie. AI shall have more time to recruit.

The different Yari Ashi have not the same name, if you use my custom unit names (english language version is needed). But the same icons, because i have no fx artist, have no time to change tga's, if somebody volunteers i would be glad.

Aha for the movement points. Fair enough.

I have English version of the game language. I'm describing what I get with your vanilla mod - i haven't applied any additional naming mods. Those two different units are named exactly the same - playing the Date clan. Their respective stats are different but not their names.What name should these different Yari-Ashi units have?

Hope somebody volunteers for a 2D artist! I'll ask my friends.

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What name should these different Yari-Ashi units have?

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As Date clan you have 2 of them, yes. Other clans have even 3 (with different naming, one of these 3 is faction-specific).

The common forms:

Ashigaru - Yari | Inaka
and
Ashigaru - Bushi Yari | Inaka

The ladder is the advanced form of Yari Ashigaru (bushi = warrior). I believe i have listed this also in the Unit Guide thread.
If you don't have these different names, then it's somehow bugged in your installation.

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Hope somebody volunteers for a 2D artist! I'll ask my friends.

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That would be great. Note, i intend to use the Sengoku Cards mod by Ralendil for S2R+, so the different cards need to apply those as base.
Atm. though it is open if Ralendil himself has time and lust to provide the custom S2R+ unit cards, because there are some more to do.

I see - can't check if bugged or not bugged again for another few days until I come home. If I get any answers I'll let you know but don't hold your breath for it.

Hey Hister, in case you have fun to join the S2R+ dev group, entering the dev forum, apply: Settings/Permission Groups (need a PM from you when you applied that). No duties, just betatesting/-reporting of the newest internal version(s) is needed.

Hey Davinci what are your thoughts on increasing skill points to spend for level-ups(for generals, ninja, monks etc.)?

And possibly decreasing research time on some of the Arts?

Eha, thanx for the invitation Da Vinci - much appreciated! I can apply but I'm a very busy champ so if I manage to play the game it's only here and there so I wouldn't be able to post and playtest regularly or on demand. Don't see how that could be of much help to you but if you are fine with that I'm in.

Note that I won't be around until Monday next week.

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Originally Posted by Hister

Eha, thanx for the invitation Da Vinci - much appreciated! I can apply but I'm a very busy champ so if I manage to play the game it's only here and there so I wouldn't be able to post and playtest regularly or on demand. Don't see how that could be of much help to you but if you are fine with that I'm in.

Note that I won't be around until Monday next week.

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Access just enabled :)
I'll also need somebody who can now and then moderate a bit. As you know my modding-style quite good (since we already worked together in 2008, or? was it 2008?), you are a good candidate, i guess you'll understand the backgrounds of the design without big explanations, when you play/learn the mod ( as my time is very limited, as you know, normally i'm retired from modding ;) ). No duties, just when you have time - also my plan is not to make this project still for long, i guess a final version is soon out (afterwards perhaps bugfixing/enhancements, if necessary).

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

Hey Davinci what are your thoughts on increasing skill points to spend for level-ups(for generals, ninja, monks etc.)?

And possibly decreasing research time on some of the Arts?

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Research times are already vastly shortened compared to vanilla. Example: I'm playtesting currently the dev version, and i'm ca. 15 years in the game, now i have reached the horizontal mid line of all bushido and chi arts (of course, the upcoming arts need more time).

As for skill-points, no, i think vanilla is fine there, and it would make the mod easier, probably.
Edit: I haven't touched traits or any such files, there are mods out there of this branch, the ones who think they need that can apply them.

Erm, moderating like answering people's questions on this forum?

Edit: Just checked. The two different Ashigaru Yari units that I reported are actually the starting Ashigaru Yari units and the new ones I built hence the different stats.

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Originally Posted by Hister

Erm, moderating like answering people's questions on this forum?

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Lol ... of course only if you know something, not now, not tomorrow, just in future, and naturally only if you like.

Ahaha, fine :D

Check the edit above...

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The two different Ashigaru Yari units that I reported are actually the starting Ashigaru Yari units and the new ones I built hence the different stats.

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Different unit number, that's all what should be different for those starting units. I already thought about it to give the starting units a separate role (separate name and meaning, perhaps slight different stats), but that would be much work for a very low effect (less game value, just bit more flavor).

Have to go offline now.

Leave it as is.

Good night.

Downloaded the newest version.

Short comment on my recent dev version playtesting in regard of the economical model: (as always playtesting Chosokabe, H) ... this is with custom UAI btw., see public thread "Compatibility: Add Mods".

About 15 years in the game, and i have really a lot money available, progressing is no point here. Means if i start to leave the isle (while Miyoshi is my vassal, left him on the most eastern isle, and Sogo is my ally in his home region), attacking other factions will be a challenging adventure, because the AI factions are strong, the economical options will help, but surely one will have always to plan the investments accurately.

Besides this, battle mode is good balanced, battles are pretty hard to win if the armies are ca. 1:1 deployed, as already said, tactics are relevant, a mistake can cause a desaster, field battles. Siege battles are another thing, the CA vanilla siege bug makes it hard for the AI as assaulter.

Camp wise, AI: Only Uesegi died, Ikko is slightly too strong. All other looks very well, ie. Mori is mighty now, Shimazu expands, Oda expands but is not too mighty (Tokugawa keeps its region as Oda's vassal), Takeda expands, even Hattori expanded, Date are solid there, Hojo as well.
Besides these major AI's, many other AI's are still alive and kicking, pretty less of them vanished.

So i'll try to buff Uesegi slightly more, Ikko will be nerfed a bit.

Version 1.98 is lifted.

For 1.98 do we still need to include the "Movement reduction mod" that you added to the 1.96 version?

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

For 1.98 do we still need to include the "Movement reduction mod" that you added to the 1.96 version?

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No, remove that if you have that in the data folder, the movement reduction mod customised comes with the S2R+_1.98 folder now.

Edit: Seems i have to make it more clear in the release thread, will add part of the Addon readme now.

Preview for the last upcoming updates 1.99 and 2.0

Now as i hope the mod is pretty much advanced/finalised gameplay wise, there will be only a few content updates, those are

# Unit Additions:

- Catholic Samurai, a capable matchlock unit (unique for catholic factions), quite early recruitable.
- A medium/semi-elite sword Samurai, recruitable with sword school.
- Possibly making an Onna Bushi recruitment variant, with naginata dojo.
- Possibly new garrison unit: Bomb Thrower variant, from on stronghold.
- Possibly new garrison unit: Ashi Matchlock variant, from on fortress.

# Unit card customisation of the introduced Sengoku Unit Card mod.

... besides of course, slight enhancement due to playtesting experiences/reports (mine, internal playtesters and payers).

Did you unlock cannons for non-Christan factions in 1.98?

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

Did you unlock cannons for non-Christan factions in 1.98?

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Yes. There are always tons of details (changes) which go not into the changelogs, because i would have to write a whole day then (my changelogs are already long enough, i guess less people care to read all that, right ;) ).

hmmmmm, any possible way I could help you with that? by that I mean write all the specific changes SR+ offers to players seeking to know about the mod?

At least all the changes to the non-battle aspects of the game (ex. unit caps, what provides and cost food, diplo, recruitment buildings, unit radius, etc.)



I would be more then willing to do it, and I think it would help advertise the mod if all the info was organized

That would probably be a good thing to do but maybe wait until finalised 2.0 version since more changes will be done. If you don't mind changing stats when the last version is finished then go ahead and write all the changes the game makes - not many major changes re expected anyway.

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

hmmmmm, any possible way I could help you with that? by that I mean write all the specific changes SR+ offers to players seeking to know about the mod?

At least all the changes to the non-battle aspects of the game (ex. unit caps, what provides and cost food, diplo, recruitment buildings, unit radius, etc.)



I would be more then willing to do it, and I think it would help advertise the mod if all the info was organized

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Tyler, that's a good idea indeed, you can make such a thread, try to do that as structured as possible.
Also i invite you to join the team (check Settings/Group Permission, apply there for the S2R+ group, and pm me about it), if you want.
You can test the newest internal version, and else you can help to moderate the public forum, when i'm not around (as Hister does).

Hey Davinci I sent you a PM about my idea and also I believe I applied to the group for which I would by more than willing to help test the newest internal versions and help out with the forum when I can.

Welcome to the team.

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Info for everybody post v1.98 release.

The mod is currently again in an overhaule phase. Aspects got/get a revision, ie.:

- CAI (ie. naval and trade behaviour, but also general AI priorities)
- Economy (cashflow)
- Building and tech/art properties and impacts
- Cultural impacts (via buddhist, ikko and catholic factors)
- Units (recruitment and capabilities)
- Battle mode (diverse, ie. fatigue, attrition, morale etc. once more in work)

Update v1.99 uploaded.

Expect a quite new campaign experience compared to v1.98.

I think the ikko-ikki conversion rates are a little to high in the beginning, after 8 turns some provinces have reached a 18% of that religion. Maybe if you added like a .5% conversion to clan religion for the Zen art card it could help balance this out a little?

Please continue playing and monitor how is the situation later on. I think new buildings balance this out but Ikko Ikki will be very strong never the less and Oda will gradually push them back. At least that was in my beta testing campaign.

Well, it actually depends on the building-behaviour of the factions, if they gradually construct, the ikko influence is pushed back. However, i'll try to bring them slightly more constructing buddhist temples (for post 1.99 versions), this negates the ikko influence to a good degree.

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Maybe if you added like a .5% conversion to clan religion for the Zen art card it could help balance this out a little?

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You mean via chi art? There is no such code available afaik, and if done in that way, it would negate the ikko threat very quick.


Edit: Internal update available (1.99.1).

from what I've noticed its the ikko-ikki influences from other provinces that usually spread it fast. In my Uesigi play through even with the Buddhist temple the ikko-ikki faith grew to 10% after 10 turns and was still rising

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

from what I've noticed its the ikko-ikki influences from other provinces that usually spread it fast. In my Uesigi play through even with the Buddhist temple the ikko-ikki faith grew to 10% after 10 turns and was still rising

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Of course, it depends on the bordering regions. Uesegi start region has a lot ikko influence.

Edit: Just check out the settlement-details, that will show you how much points you need to stop the conversion, and which building(s) is needed.

yeah I see what you mean, I just didn't build enough my first go around, but I figured it out my second time. I think I like where you're going with this, it adds a new dynamic to campaign strategy and makes temples more strategic as to where you want to place them to get the most out of their outside influence

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

yeah I see what you mean, I just didn't build enough my first go around, but I figured it out my second time. I think I like where you're going with this, it adds a new dynamic to campaign strategy and makes temples more strategic as to where you want to place them to get the most out of their outside influence

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And i just started an Uesugi campaign, and if i recruit the available monk agent, the buddist conversion rate stands on 100 % in the first turn, Uesugi is with the temple the last faction that has big issues at the start in this regard..

Update 1.99.5 uploaded. Special feature: AUM-Sho custom units integrated.

what is this aum sho?

Additional Units Mod for Shogun 2.

General info:

The recent published version 1.99.5 will stay valid for a while.

The next public release will be the final S2R+ release (2.0).

If somebody is a S2R+ fan, and wants to participate with the internal betatesting, has the time for it, then leave an according post here.
Betatesters must be able to report in a proper manner* about their campaign-playtesting, can provide suggestions which fit to the modding design etc..
Further on should be able to install the mod (internal updates) without issues.

* proper manner: understandable english (no slang or rap style english), structured, short and clear.

I volunteer for this.

Welcome aboard Poulp'!

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Originally Posted by Poulp'

I volunteer for this.

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Alright Poulp, welcome.
Please go to "Settings" -> "Permission Groups", and apply there for the S2R+ group (the "+" is written there as "plus"). Afterwards please pm me about it (ie. "have applied"), because i don't get an automatical message. I'll give then access to the hidden dev forum.

After a long moment searching Steam's settings for "permission group", I finally found it on the top of this very page.

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Originally Posted by Poulp'

After a long moment searching Steam's settings for "permission group", I finally found it on the top of this very page.

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Steam?

Access given. You can find there an internal version 1.99.6.

I know, I wasn't thinking straight at the time.

Hey Divinci I have a question about updates to this mod in the distant future.

STW2 is relatively new for a total war game, following the series pattern CA is probably going to add more expansion packs to game for a few years. I know that you've been trying to finish this mod, but are going to keep it updated for expansions? For instance the Sengoku Jidai unit pack that recently came out

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

Hey Divinci I have a question about updates to this mod in the distant future.

STW2 is relatively new for a total war game, following the series pattern CA is probably going to add more expansion packs to game for a few years. I know that you've been trying to finish this mod, but are going to keep it updated for expansions? For instance the Sengoku Jidai unit pack that recently came out

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See my recent post in the "CA Patch Updates" thread to the Sengoku Jidai unit pack.

Everything else is open.

Is it possible for you to nerf/remove the AI buffs on the campaign map? Human players have to deal with the (now much more difficult) task of balancing economy and reduced unit replenishment, while AI faction get free units even if they are in deficit (if I'm not wrong, this has always been so for Total War), resulting in massive armies. The auto-resolve is also pretty screwed up, as it doesn't take fortifications into account very well. Auto-resolving an assault on a castle is always much much better than playing it out. I'm playing as Uesugi, turn 45 I own 2 provinces and have 2 vassals, while the Ikko-Ikki have 6 provinces and are marching on me with 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.

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Originally Posted by Geppenguin

Is it possible for you to nerf/remove the AI buffs on the campaign map? Human players have to deal with the (now much more difficult) task of balancing economy and reduced unit replenishment, while AI faction get free units even if they are in deficit (if I'm not wrong, this has always been so for Total War), resulting in massive armies. The auto-resolve is also pretty screwed up, as it doesn't take fortifications into account very well. Auto-resolving an assault on a castle is always much much better than playing it out. I'm playing as Uesugi, turn 45 I own 2 provinces and have 2 vassals, while the Ikko-Ikki have 6 provinces and are marching on me with 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.

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Hello and welcome.

Your points:
- The AI gets no free units, there is no indicator in the codes for that, also i never observed that. Exception is the Ashikaga faction (Kyoto), Shogunate.
- Autoresolve battle is in this regard - fortifications - not moddable.

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marching 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.

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... try to "slaughter" their 2 Monks units, and then try to rout their Ashigaru's.

Ikko Ikki: They might get some regions due to rebellions (and with this also units), what you see (the 6 regions owned) is not a result of their "superior" units or massive recruitment, they might loose some regions again within the campaign vs. other (stronger) AI.

In the whole: S2R+ is not made to make things really easier for the player ;)

I know it shouldn't be easier, but I do think that the AI gets some form of financial boost. They never have to deal with deficits and even one province minor clans eventually raise near fullstack armies (even if they are mostly ashigaru). The fact that the AI doesn't lose many troops in auto-resolve also means that the slower rates of replenishment are less punishing on them.

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Originally Posted by Geppenguin

I know it shouldn't be easier, but I do think that the AI gets some form of financial boost. They never have to deal with deficits and even one province minor clans eventually raise near fullstack armies (even if they are mostly ashigaru). The fact that the AI doesn't lose many troops in auto-resolve also means that the slower rates of replenishment are less punishing on them.

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The AI gets no financial boosts, the player gets financial penalties as per difficulty setting Hard and higher, you can choose Medium, then you'll have a far, far easier play in this regard (no financial penalty, but even financial help vs. AI, iirc.).

Please, can you provide us with the "fact" that AI looses always less men than the human player with a detailled description of the situation(s)?
I absolutely have not such special experiences.

Btw., which difficulty are you playing? You know you can adjust your battle difficulty besides the camp difficulty in the preferences file?

All in all, the player has way more chances to make a better play than the AI, just because the TW AI wasn't ever and is also in S2 not the best one could wish ;)

Version 2.0 released.

For the ones who have purchased the recent DLC Jidai Unit Pack content: Completely customised to S2R+'s design (balancing).
And many other updates (see changelog since 1.99.5 for the ones who applied at last 1.99.5).

Im a new member here in this site, and I joined because of DaVinci's wonderful mod. I am a fan of Darth, and been using his works from the recent total war games, and I compared your mods for S2TW and I liked urs the most. Thank you for enhancing the gameplay of the most anticipated and best pc game ever. well, of course congrats to Darth as well.

I have just downloaded the S2r 2.0 and going to try it later. Im using these mods as well -- namely
-->
Alternative CC
Blood mod
BUC mod
Extended campaign
unit variety
Radious's No Sashimono mod
No Projectile trail

I hope there are no bugs or issues. :)

I didn't put the realm divide mod because it might not be compatible with your mod. I was wondering if you also changed the issue about the realm divide.

Ive read from some forums that ur newest ver. have the samurai archers ammo to 3, havent seen it tho, but if it is, Is there a way to increase it to 20? also the naginata units are not that useful because of the sword units that have better melee skills and the same armor as the naginata. ( talking about hte S2r 4.00 ) I was hoping that sword units now would have less armor so that archers could kill them and have the users to use naginata which have higher armor to go against archers, (it's just my idea im not really sure if its correct) lastly I think the General units in the older versions are very strong that yari units cannot kill them, it seems unrealistic.

Hope I could hear from you, Congrats again for your wonderful mod. :)

S2R+ is way different from S2R.

S2R+, to your points:

Samurai bow have 3 arrows, because they represent a standard Samurai (besides the Yari Samurai). Vanilla (and many mods) present this kind of unit wrong, as archer-skirmishers.
You can change this by yourself with the PFM tool* (see TWS2 mod workshop), file land_units_stats, check the colum "ammo", there.

* PFM 1.6.6 (1.6.5) has access to all my land_units_stats files. Except for the Jidai DLC Unit Pack file calling "UP1_land_units_stats" there (which is locked as for CA's patch7 update, not compatible), i was able to change that only with a workaround tool offered by davidlallen.

Sword Samurai represent to a most part close retainer Samurai, very elite (they are very rare), Naginata Samurai have usually slight better armour and more charge, and just a anti-cav bonus - every unit has his purpose, but Samurai (the standard Samurai) have all a very similar skill, but S2R+ has many special and faction-specifc units with specific skill, of all branches.

All spear (if yari or naginata) wielding units can kill Gen/BG units in S2R+, and every other cavalry units.

I recommend to try S2R+ 2.0 as it is, a full campaign (or more), and then judge afterwards.

Of course, one could make some ongoing unit balancing changes (although the battle mode balancing is already very consistent), but for S2R+ i don't intend to make it a never-ending-story, v2.0 is meant as final. Perhaps very slight balancing corrections can follow in a patch-update, maybe if something annoys me horribly when i playtest again ;)

I have just moved a few recent posts to the according thread (Install Issues).

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Originally Posted by DaVinci

Of course, one could make some ongoing unit balancing changes (although the battle mode balancing is already very consistent), but for S2R+ i don't intend to make it a never-ending-story, v2.0 is meant as final. Perhaps very slight balancing corrections can follow in a patch-update, maybe if something annoys me horribly when i playtest again ;)

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All right you can go on holiday now that you released 2.0 but if you tell me your path with modding S2 stops here, sorry I don't believe you. :)

There will be an update, some day still in this year ;) ... but nothing major anymore, bit finetuning/balancing for some certain units.
Plus necessary "bugfixing" (not crash-fixing is meant, as i'm sure the mod is stable), if something appears to be too odd for the majority of the team members and players, ie. this is in particular the army radious on the campaign map, where i'm personally in a mere 49:51 thinking for this item (51 stands for 'remains as is'), it'll be a democratic decision.
And a 'maybe' for this update is, that i still look to adjust the starting diplo for the Oda-Tokugawa-Imagawa relations.
In principle that update runs then under 'patch' of the final build, just corrections.

Short-info: Some global balancing is on the way for the patch on S2R+ v2.0.

Playtesting 2.0 deeper shows that too much rebellions happen in some campaigns (in my experience it depends on the chosen faction), normal and Ikko rebellions, which hurt major factions a bit too much. And especially Uesugi is somehow incapable to keep its gains.

In result following factions get slight, but working balancing adjustments:
Buffing - Uesugi, Mori, Chosokabe, Oda
Nerving - Ikko, Takeda

This, besides global balancing to reduce slightly rebellion factors (main factor, which shall help esp. Mori and Chosokabe, but also Oda).

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Originally Posted by GShock

All right you can go on holiday now that you released 2.0 but if you tell me your path with modding S2 stops here, sorry I don't believe you. :)

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You have been right ;)

Patch version 2.4 uploaded.

Patch version 2.5 uploaded.

Patch version 2.6 uploaded.

I know I mentioned cannons a while ago, but I've still have yet to use them in the campaign, mainly because I never accept Nanban trade. According to the historical info about cannons in the sengoku period japanese gunsmiths were making their own cannons towards the later part of the 16th century. Can you make cannons recruitable at arsenals? Also i rarely see any AI faction have gunpowder units above ashigaru tenpo, do you notice this too?

p.s. thanks for keeping up your dedication to this mod! I've put in over 200hrs in the game (and still haven't beaten it once) and I still feel like its getting bigger, better, and more complete. C.A. made a fine house no doubting that, but you are making it a home

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Originally Posted by TylerX5

I know I mentioned cannons a while ago, but I've still have yet to use them in the campaign, mainly because I never accept Nanban trade. According to the historical info about cannons in the sengoku period japanese gunsmiths were making their own cannons towards the later part of the 16th century. Can you make cannons recruitable at arsenals? Also i rarely see any AI faction have gunpowder units above ashigaru tenpo, do you notice this too?

p.s. thanks for keeping up your dedication to this mod! I've put in over 200hrs in the game (and still haven't beaten it once) and I still feel like its getting bigger, better, and more complete. C.A. made a fine house no doubting that, but you are making it a home

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Never played so far, that the Samurai Teppo becomes available.

Yes, i have just made two different cannon units: One nanban (import, nanban quarter), one japanese (arsenal), both need though the kanabukama building to ensure they are really rare and late; for the next update.

Hi there.

We started our first campaing with the realism mod (Oda). But we already face a misterious problem: We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.

Why is this????:no:
We don't see any further restrictions or arts we need. Please help!!!!

Rycalawre

What version are you playing?
Are you sure the S2R+ pack is the only file you have in the data folder? (possible conflict with other mods?)

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We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.

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Post Roads need arts Todofuken and Equal Fields researched, and of course the according money.

If it doesn't work there in your install, then you must have a bug in your install of whatever sort.

As this mod is aimed to reflect a realistic experience I would like to make some remarks about army composition. The severe restriction in Samurai recruiting really bugged me. It is of course true, that during Sengoku Jidai the Ashigaru became more and more prominent and their role in special weapon squads (namely, archers, arquebus and spearman) was very important. However, looking at different accounts of troop composition and battleorders the Samurai were still the backbone and main fighting force, especially in the vanguard, whilst Ashigaru were considered support troops. As an example, Shimazu Iehisa´s personal guard would consist of : 456 dismounted and 130 mounted samurai, 300 Arquebus, 200 archer and 200 spearman (Ashigaru)+ another 300 or so purely support troops like shield or flag bearers.
So, while armies would have a high percentage of Ashigaru, a huge chunk of them would not be fighting troops, but support. Furthermore Spearman would mainly be used for defensive purposes, protecting the ranks of Ashigaru Archers from enemy cavalry.

Part of the problem is ofcourse the whole system of tactical engagement in Shogun 2, which doesn´t reflect Japanese tactics. Drawing troopes in one big line and engaging with spearashigaru while trying to outflank does not seem very authentic.

I also believe that having different troop sizes already reflects good for the historic troop composition (even if you have 50/50 ashigaru samurai in units, you would have many more ashigaru if you counted heads)

It really bugged me, that I could only recruit yari ashigaru in lategame, which leads to having european like battles, with pikeman engaging opposing pikeman instead of being used for defencive purposes, it is also highly unlikely that in case of a siegeattack those poor yari ashigaru with 4meter and longerg pikes would have to scale the castlewalls because of a lack of samurai to do that (how would you carry a 4,5 meter spear while climbing a steep slope and being shot at, i wonder.....)

My conclusion: For realisms sake I would still allow for decent numbers of Samurai troops, whose variety in appearance is well reflected in different weapon types but at the same time would put stronger emphasis on Ashigaru missile troops, especially late in the period there would be huge ammounts of Arquebus deployed. The use of Yari Ashigaru however is a more ambiguous topic and as it is done in the moment doesn´t reflect samurai warfare but much more the european way of engagement where knights have alredy been rendered obsolete after 1500.

Thats my opinion of the matter, no offence intendet :)

The problem of unit capping is of no easy solution but at any rate I personally think the samurai unit numbers are perfectly fitting.
As far as I understand the mechanics of S2, you can't impose a cap on a building or a province but it must be imposed "beforehand" at the clan stage. So you select a global pool where each clan has a limited number of each unit type and then it's up to the player or AI to expand the domain so that more troops become available because of specialty buildings allowing them.

It does seem pretty unrealistic that you can recruit an ashigaru naginata where the blacksmith is and you can't recruit him at the bordering province... however, if you look closely at the unit stats, you will see the yari ashigaru inaka are so crappy that they lose even to the light cavalry. This means it's up to you to build a balanced army and put each unit where it should be during battle whereas the problem remains for the AI since with all the buildings' restrictions, it can't recruit all the types in one single province but just the type(s) allowed by the buildings present there.

I am more for a system like TROM3 with the AOR recruitment because this allows you to taylor 2 things: 1) Expansion: you can recruit in the new provinces the troops that come from those territories. 2) Population: You HAVE TO 1) because your "native troops" are limited in numbers (big guy has more troops than small guy!).
TROM3 has a major disadvantage in the fact you can recruit ONE local samurai unit (unit caps are very present there too) but I think in these regards, S2r+ should evolve this way.

Still... when the tech tree progresses you'll see more and more ashigaru coming, especially the teppo. Unfortunately, the mod can't do miracles.

BTW Iehisa's personal guard is something, his army... something else. ;)

It works fine now. I didn't research equal fields at that time and it didn't show me that I had to research it to build the post roads. So I was a little confused.

Anyways, great mod, it's multiple time more fun than the vanilla version.

Thx for your help!

Later accounts of the Tokugawa army show a composition of approximately 1/3 Arquebus&Archers, 1/3 Spear and 1/3 Samurai (mounted and dismounted) + loads of servants.
However in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru (to scale castle walls etc.) if at least I could recruit some Archers to reflect a 1/3 ratio of each unit type. I juist looked at my ingame armies and probably my main concerne is the lack of ranged units. I can´t recruit Yumi Ashigaru which i find odd, and considering the year 1575 I should deffinately be able to recruit more Arquebus units (more than 3*80 in about 10 provinces)

Always check the art tree (that shows the requirement!), not the building-info alone, as S2R+ has a lot changes in this area ;)

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However in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru (to scale castle walls etc.) if at least I could recruit some Archers to reflect a 1/3 ratio of each unit type. I juist looked at my ingame armies and probably my main concerne is the lack of ranged units. I can´t recruit Yumi Ashigaru which i find odd, and considering the year 1575 I should deffinately be able to recruit more Arquebus units (more than 3*80 in about 10 provinces)

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Honestly i don't know what you are playing there, if you have a bow dojo you are able to recruit archers, if you have the according dojo, you are able to recruit the according Samurai units ... "in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru" ... wtf you are talking about?
I believe your install is somehow wrong, perhaps mixed with other mods.

You are mentioning historical accounts of faction army consistences ... note, that S2R+ is not an accurate history simulation, it's what the opener thread says: A combination of realism and gameplay design.
And for example in regard of historical realism in the environment and design of Tokugawa, there is a focus on Oda making a good play (vs. vanilla design), in consequence on the costs of Tokugawa. If you want a lot of Teppo units you must play Oda.

However, upcoming update will contain a lot alterations again.

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Originally Posted by DaVinci

However, upcoming update will contain a lot alterations again.

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I think he'll be a bit shocked :)
BWHAHAAHAHAH