Suggestions for v0.8

Does this problem exist with normal spearmen, phalanx units or both?* I personally haven't noticed any issues with their battle performance. With phalanx units, the way the rear ranks hold their spears looks a little weird** (and not very plausible) but that's about it.


* If the issue is only with phalanx units, I don't expect it will matter because I assume that EB classical hoplites will be similar to hypapsistai, as they are the closest to classical hoplites in the current EB version. Hypapsistai (and Baktrion agema, wich are quite similar) don't use the phalanx ability of RTW.

** look at this picture, taken from this thread.

Thanks to the entire EB team for this superb mod, keep it going :2thumbsup:

This is a GOOD classical hoplite animation:

Idle
https://img479.imageshack.us/img479/5453/idlefl7.th.png

Marching
https://img238.imageshack.us/img238/...hingof9.th.png

Charging
https://img62.imageshack.us/img62/39...gingeq1.th.png

Fighting
https://img75.imageshack.us/img75/64...tinghx0.th.png

It comes with SigniferOne's Animation Pack v0.8

This is one thing that I find a little weird and not sure you can fix.Its just weird when the male advisors for certain factions have a female voice (unless they are females in disguise).

I blame Victoria. ~;)

No seriously, that voice is Victoria's and EB hasn't yet (AFAIK) modded the files involved. If you don't want to hear her, then shut her up. :grin:

Will peltasts actually use the pelt this time?

According to the unit description the name peltast is a bit misleading, since during EB's timeframe they didn't use any peltai anymore.

Then perhaps they should be renamed?

Perhaps they named it so, because peltast was the name of the light troops of the era. They originated in classical greece and thrace (5th century more or so). They had an evolution from their brithtime, from something more like the EB`s arkontistai, to a better protected and more versatile unit than a mere support and missile troop.

Peltastai comes from the moon-like shield they used in 5th century greece (pelte), but it`s equipment evolved to one that made able to the soldier to stand a chance if he comes into contact with the enemy, together with conserving the "light" caracter of the unit.

It`s a light and skirmisher unit that should be used not as infantry of the line, but as a fast missile support unit, that can be commited to fight if the situation demands it.

Yep. Like he said. It's much more like that "cavalry" usage today in modern armies - it came from an important part of the equipment/unit, but as the unit evolved, and didn't use it anymore, it kept the name though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by k_raso

It`s a light and skirmisher unit that should be used not as infantry of the line, but as a fast missile support unit, that can be commited to fight if the situation demands it.

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I once had a line of peltasts hold against guesatae...

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Originally Posted by Lignator

I once had a line of peltasts hold against guesatae...

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Hehehe, the rebel cities that have full stacks of peltastai have also whooped the arse of my consular armies... specially in hilly terrain...

But that doesn`t mean that that was their role in the ancient warfare.

Neither that they won`t get a stat adjustment also... but that`s for the team to decide.

Cheers!!!

I'm not certain, but I thought there was going to be a stat adjustment for the peltasts. Something maybe about them having too much armor or something? I can't remember rightly, but I thought something like that was brought up.

In one of those old discussions on the topic (you should be able to find it just by running a search on the word "peltast") someone pretty explicitly stated the Peltastai had two points too much armour. Personally, I took the appropriate steps (ie. went to the EDU and lowered the value to 8) which in any case seemed to stop the worst of the infamous Peltast Spam(tm) the AI so used to love...

They're still tough enough it doesn't really pay to direct arrows and javelins their way (slings, conversely, can take down even Camillian Triarii (at armour 15) at respectable rate from the unshielded side...), but at least they don't beat up Thureophoroi most of the time anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by k_raso

Peltastai comes from the moon-like shield they used in 5th century greece (pelte), but it`s equipment evolved to one that made able to the soldier to stand a chance if he comes into contact with the enemy, together with conserving the "light" caracter of the unit.

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I would call them thureophoroi, as they carry thureos...

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Originally Posted by Corinthian Hoplite

I would call them thureophoroi, as they carry thureos...

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In EB they do not carry the Thureos, notice the shield is slightly smaller than the Thueophorois'

TA:I believe its related to the fact that they are much to similar to Theurophoroi.

Peltastai:20 Def (Heavy Peltasts)
Theurophoroi 21 (Mediun Infantry Javelin Inf)
Peltastai: 8(or more) Javelins.
Theurophoroi.4 Javelins
Charge:24 to 26/
Traits:Peltatai are faster, can hide in tall grass, and many other cool traits...

Since the defense, charge and attack are only SLIGHTLY in the Theurophoroi's favor...

On the other hand, as has been pointed out before in these comparisions, the Thureos are rather better at not getting eaten alive by cavalry.

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Originally Posted by Corinthian Hoplite

Then perhaps they should be renamed?

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The name peltast has refered to various troop types over the centuries, and most of them didn't use the pelte. However, I guess that historically the Hellenic heavy skirmishers of the post-Alexandrian era were called peltasts. I am not entirely sure about this though, as I read somewhere that peltast also refered to the bodyguards of Hellenic potentates, but maybe I am confusing things.

However, following your logic the hastati should also be renamed because they don't use the hasta spear anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

However, following your logic the hastati should also be renamed because they don't use the hasta spear anymore.

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Yes they should, a name is supposed to represent something, when it no longer represents it, it has to be changed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corinthian Hoplite

Yes they should, a name is supposed to represent something, when it no longer represents it, it has to be changed.

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A name may well start out as a simple description of something, but over time it loses that meaning it gains a new one. Considering that word Peltastai was used to describe any manner of troops, not all of whom were using a particular shape of shield, and considering that the Romans themselves called their first line infantry hastati even when the hastati were not using spears, and given that language is evolving, ever evolving, your ground is not only shaky its damn right unstable. Give it up! The shape of the shield, and the type of the weapon, are no longer the defining features of the units in question. Yes they used different equipment once, but as technology increased, but their roles stayed the same, they have kept their same name.

Whats not to get?

Foot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corinthian Hoplite

Yes they should, a name is supposed to represent something, when it no longer represents it, it has to be changed.

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A name is a name. In some cases names are chosen for representation, in other cases it is simply an identifier. Where we have actual names we use them, representative or not.

No one has to do anything - I suggest you use fewer imperatives when posting in a thread titled "suggestions."

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Originally Posted by khelvan

A name is a name. In some cases names are chosen for representation, in other cases it is simply an identifier. Where we have actual names we use them, representative or not.

No one has to do anything - I suggest you use fewer imperatives when posting in a thread titled "suggestions."

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I wasn't referring to the EB team at all, I'm just angry because people weren't (and aren't) able to give something a new name when the one they have no longer represents it.
You EB'rs have no fault, you're just following history, whether it's good or bad.

I'd be pretty disappointed if my 'Hastati' was renamed to 'Sword Guy'
Names that make no sense to the unit exist even in the modern military, Cavalry (They got no horses!) and marines (they aren't ship soldiers no more!) just to name a couple. I don't get why your so annoyed with this, its the way things have always been.

For that matter, didn't the Romans keep the old Hastati/Principes/Triarii terms around even after switching to uniformly armed cohorts, save then for distinguising order of deployement...?

Just a simple little suggestion, the units you can train have their 'native' name, followed by an English name in brackets, but often the two are so long that it messes things up and makes things difficult to read.
Would it be possible to use abreviations here, say 'cav' instead of cavalry, 'skm' instead of skirmishers and such. It would clean things up just a little.

I have a bit of an off-topic request, I know it's strange but I didn't want to start a new thread. Can someone get me a picture of the Dacian banners (with the guy's face) from un modded RTW?

Has any thought been given to removing the 'phalanx' ability from non-phalangite spear units?

Like which ones? You say "units" so I expect you are talking about more than the triarii, which won't have phalanx ability in the next patch anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watchman

For that matter, didn't the Romans keep the old Hastati/Principes/Triarii terms around even after switching to uniformly armed cohorts, save then for distinguising order of deployement...?

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I think they did. They arranged their cohorts according to experience and age (i.e. the most grizzled veterans here, the hardy younglings with less experience there)
Of course the older, more experienced soldiers would coincidentally fall under the principes and triarii classes

I read this in a forum,maybe is an idea for the EB to include:


Neutral/not included factions (small villages) offering help. This is the kind of script with TFT i said : 'wow man is this possible???!!!' Like a city going to war and the advisor pups op and says: "The city of blablabla offers you two hundred hoplites and joins your proposal to attack that city (city name). You must accept this offer and pay XXX denarii and then the script puts 200 hoplites in your army

Greetings. I’d like to thank all of EB team for making this mod. Brilliant job. Graphic is great, and so is the content. The battles now look how they should be. That’s the best mod I’ve seen so far, and even if you list it now as “beta”, it’s TheBeta =)
Lost any desire to play MTWII completely, hope you’ll mod it one day too. Anyway, the ancient history attracts me much more, and I’m very grateful to you, people =)

However, I have few suggestions, concerning gameplay only:

1.
Something has to be done about slingers. Either about their weapon range, either about their ammo amount, either about their rate of fire.
These little ugly cheap grunts make me feel good. They are my first group of city defenders and that’s why: I build hoards of them, six units of slingers per garrison. After some target practice they start to wipe out around 450 men, enemy’s general’s cavalry included. This means one thing only – once you have stone walls, your city’s safe forever. I play as Epeiros, and Romani are completely paralyzed in their efforts to capture my megapolis in southern Italy. They’re sending full stacks every turn, but that doesn’t help them much.

2.
I’m not sure, that limiting Epyrote elite phalanx number to 80 was a good idea. After all, everyone else with long pikes has 120 men in their unit. Since it’s a common rule for everybody in the game, why make an exemption for Epeiros? Looks a bit strange to me.
Well then, why don’t you limit their elite cavalry to the amount of 35 instead of 50? =)

3.
The one thing, that was right about RTRealism, was the amount of archers on the backs of armored elephants. May I also suggest to increase their quantity in the next patch? Did it for myself, adjusting files descr_mount.txt and export_descr_units.txt. Well, after adjustment they really are worth 3.500 per turn =)

Question:
Has anybody found something good in these strange Macedon men with axes? (“Agriani”/”Agrikonioni”, can’t recall their name, can be recruited by Epyrote and Macedonia) Since their axes are not armor piercing, are they good for anything? Epyrote & Macedonia do have some good flank infantry, that can be recruited in the same level MIC’s, what do they need these guys for?

And, please, forgive me my English, haven’t practiced it for years =)
Best regards,
MiniMe