Problem is that the Dutch PM has spoken on the matter. That is worrying given his poor track record at being right ... :juggle:
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Problem is that the Dutch PM has spoken on the matter. That is worrying given his poor track record at being right ... :juggle:
I wonder what history will think about this and Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Yemen, etc. I had doubts about the outcome of Iraq from the beginning as I was concerned about the safety of the soldiers and the Iraqis, but I also heard that Iraq's situation has improved a bit not long ago. If Iraq and Afghanistan turn out to go well, but I still doubt about Afghanistan very much, then I think a part of Bush's plan might be working better than we thought. That is if events in Iraq had anything to do with this. Of course NATO including the US helped in Libya directly.
As much of a 43 supporter that I am his plan for Iraq was week but laudable. I see the effects of the invasion having a long term positive effect but I doubt much thought was given to topics like isolating Iran or how a democratic/parliamentary Iraq would change a typically despotic region.
Short term gains won the day. I have no idea what's going to happen in Libya.
He has been killed, he isn't captured any longer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15389550
Are we following .org rules on this one? Is he in the ground yet?
Didn't seem to matter too much when Bin Laden copped it and they were both about equally popular.
Video appearing to show Gaddafi when he was still alive:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And a basic course of Islamology would do you good, sir.Quote:
I've never heard an Arab say that so many times without something blowing up.
Recognise the humanity even in the worst of us.
Yes, I think he got what he ultimately deserved.
Yes, I ultimately think a trial would have got more mileage from a sane person.
One of the better quotes:
Quote:
Mansour el Ferjani, 49, a Benghazi bank clerk and father of five posed for a photograph holding a Kalashnikov rifle: "Don't think I will give this gun to my son," he said. "Now that the war is over we must give up our weapons and the children must go to school.
"But Gaddafi was a terrible dictator and this was the only way to get rid of him. We want everything people have in free countries - want people to live in peace as you do across the Mediterranean where life doesn't require the machinegun."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/muammar-...#ixzz1bM4XoAUT
Ref the quote in Pape's post: If you want what people who live in free countries have, going around killing people without trial, no matter what they have done, is not a good way to start. Oh, I know, he tried to escape. I don't think the guy we have seen in so many videos looked in any shape for an escape attempt.
We used to make money by exploiting populations for our benefit which used to serve us just fine - I'm not judging anyone. I believe that we have hit a point in time where exploitation is no longer acceptable, but the problem is this; without exploitation - with egalitarianism - we have no standing to maintain our existing parity over the rest of the world. We are left in a conundrum where we are unable to exploit the masses and must elevate them, but this leads to a reduction in our own relative parity. In my opinion, we must accelerate this through a controlled relative decline (not actual decline, only in relation to other cultures), but we cannot do this with the current leadership that illegitimately rules over its people in many parts of the world. We must aid in hatching out all poisons in the muck while we deflate out own grandeur and help educate the world. This is different from colonialism - this is post-colonialism. I can't see another way out, no matter how hard the Federal reserve tries to inflate our economy - we are left to see what fair competition with the rest of the world does to the value of the American worker. I find myself often breathing a sigh of relief when I get a customer service rep from Hyderabad rather than the one from Ohio. Similar educational levels without the entitlement complex.
Show me the moral code which says that it is somehow wrong to go this route and I'll show you a void.
This discussion has drifted into unpleasant areas. Please return it to where it was.
so...I guess they are going to need a new beloved leader/evil dictator.
is there any place where one might send a CV??
OK, let's try a different tangent for this thread.
Since we are wargamers, what do you guys know (or think) of the Lybian rebels' 'funnies' such as this armoured car, scratch-bilt from a bulldozer and fitted with firing ports with shutters on all sides?
https://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5989/lybia1.jpg
https://img641.imageshack.us/img641/438/lybia2.jpg
AII
I think I'd rather be an infantryman than get in that deathtrap.
From your repeated banging of the DOOM drum I think we are going to have to assume you are think Arabs are just evil. Seriously Frag, it's not that bad over there - they're reopening the schools, they have water and electricity. Sure, Gadaffi's supporters, including his black immigrants, are not too comfortable right now, but overwhlemingly the picture is positive - at least as positive as the immidiate aftermath of liberation in Occupied France after WWII.
That's what you have to compare it to, not our current lives, where we are all stinking rich, looked after by the state, have unbelievably low levels of government and corporate corruption and haven't had a major war or natural disaster for over half a century.
Makes you think I find the arabs evil, unlike the NATO I just think it's just better to not meddle in what we don't understand. I don't have to defend anything as over 60.000 people are already dead, that's a massacre imho, and they really didn't need to die