Another point that needs to be emphasized in re: Andres.
Myrddraal investigated Andres on Night 2.
Andres came up innocent. Myrddraal contacted Andres and revealed to him.
Myrddraal was killed on Night 3 by the Yellow Rose Mafia.
What are the odds of a mafia family nailing a detective immediately after he revealed without being aware of the reveal?
How sure are we of the bolded statement and where did that info come from?
If its true thats pretty damning on Andres.
FoS: Andres
08-15-2009, 23:14
TinCow
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat
How sure are we of the bolded statement and where did that info come from?
It came from Andres himself in this post. He also said it to me in a PM conversation in which he tried to push vigilante kills pretty hard:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Hey,
My detective contact, Myrddraal got killed last night.
I wanted to kill together with Moros, LittleGrizzly and a fourth person (well, I asked them if they knew a number 4), but Moros and L_G refused to cooperate because 'they only wanted to do protections'.
I think that's nonsense, but oh well.
Since my main source of information is dead, I'm kinda jobless, so to speak.
I don't want to wait until I get killed or until I reach the moment where it becomes more like an obligation to read the thread than having fun, so I address myself to you (and other, of course :grin:). Have you been a bit luckier with your contacts behind the scenes? Could you use a townie for your goals?
I'm open for all suggestions; as long as I have something to amuse myself with; Capo should be fun, not boring.
:bow:
1) How did you come in contact with the detective?
2) Why were you trying to do a vig kill?
1) Myrddraal contacted me through pm.
2) I wanted to eliminate one of those that came up criminal upon investigation by Myrddraal - town only has one lynch/day for a lot of scum and I thought it would be more useful to kill a suspect than to protect some random target.
A.
Well, I'm not organizing any vig groups. If that's what you're looking for, you'll need to ask elsewhere.
I'm looking for something to do which makes the game more fun than to do wait until I get killed.
As a townie, just doing protections at night won't do it. We need to take out scum by ourselves, because we simply don't have enough lynches; as long as you're not going further than Wiseguy, you're still on towns' side; we just need to avoid to become Made.
If you have somebody worthy of protection, ok, but if it's just random, then it's fare more useful to take out potential threats, like AVSM and Khazaar.
Anyway, if you're looking for manpower for protections,then you should try Moros and LittleGrizzly, they didn't want to do a hit last night, claiming that they're only doing protections.
:bow:
I am well aware of the usefulness of vig groups; I vig killed more than my fair share of mafioso in Capo 2. However, I am unaware of any living, confirmed mafioso. In Capo 2, I was happy to kill every night because I had a list of known scum longer than my arm. So far, I have a list of possible scum, but that's very different from confirmed. Find me some evidence of a confirmed scum, and I'll help organize a vig kill.
I'm just a townie, TinCow.
I don't have 'evidence'; I can only wait until somebody trusts me enough to share info or to work with me.
I think vig killing possible suspects is more useful than protecting random people.
Khazaar and AVSM are possible scum. No, there's no 'evidence' that they are member of a mafia family, but there's also no evidence that they're not. They came up criminal; they are potential threats to the town. At best they are Wiseguys, recruitable by the mafia (and be honest: most people will chose mafia over town when given the choice). If not, they're Mades, Lucas or Wiseguys already recruited by the mafia.
Why should they be kept alive?
A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I think vig killing possible suspects is more useful than protecting random people.
Khazaar and AVSM are possible scum. No, there's no 'evidence' that they are member of a mafia family, but there's also no evidence that they're not. They came up criminal; they are potential threats to the town. At best they are Wiseguys, recruitable by the mafia (and be honest: most people will chose mafia over town when given the choice). If not, they're Mades, Lucas or Wiseguys already recruited by the mafia.
Why should they be kept alive?
A.
The bolded bit above is what gives me pause. Successful vig kills marches townies and wiseguys right into the open arms of the mafia. For all I know, that's what you want to happen. Encouraging vig kills is an excellent way of finding recruits. While you produced an innocent detective result, Dons also come up innocent. Don't think I didn't notice that Myrddraal coincidentally died the night after he revealed to you, and was killed by the yellow rose mafia no less. It's a remarkable coincidence, don't you think?
Don't worry, I'm not about to rush off and make some public case against you. I'm just explaining why I am a bit cautious about starting a massacre with you. You'll need to build up some trust with me first. How about you start by telling me what you did on Nights 1 and 2 and with who.
N1 : Andres, The Stranger and Moros-> protect Dutch_guy.
N2: Protect : pevergreen; With Beefy187, shlin28, woad&fangs, Dutch_guy (only I, Beefy and shlin sent in orders) - Moros and Sasaki wanted me to help them in protecting Dutch_guy, but I sticked to my order to protect pever
N3 : I was not in a group; but I learned that Myrddraal is/was innocent.
Didn't Beefy187 miraculously survive an attack on night 1?
+ Statistically, there's more chance that Beefy is scum than there's a chance that shlin28 is a Don.
Want to take out Beefy187 tonight?
A.
Yes he did. Beefy's survival there looked a lot like the 'luck' survivals in Capo 2. From what I've heard, Seamus has recycled at least some of the abilities from Capo 2, so I see no reason why that one wouldn't have been one of them.
He was wearing a fedora.
But you're avoiding the issue here. shlin or Beefy is scum; statistically, chances that Beefy is scum are higher; why are you trying to find excuses for Beefy?
A.
No, shlin, Beefy, or YOU are scum. See the problem?
There's something about this entire conversation that's making my mafo-sense tingle.
Vote: Andres
08-15-2009, 23:24
DisgruntledGoat
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
hmmm...
I have to agree the that tyring to make beefy out to be the scum, the contacts with Myddraal and his death all start looking pretty bad. At this point I am pretty weary of taking anything ATPG wants to push through as a viable option. So
Vote: Andres
08-15-2009, 23:31
Ironside
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Just something that crossed my mind:
At the night pever died, me, shlin28 and Beefy187 sent in the protection orders.
That's 3 and it should've been enough. I didn't retract my orders, so either shlin28 or Beefy187 did.
shlin28 came up "innocent" upon investigation by Myrddraal.
That means there are two possibilities:
a) shlin28 is indeed innocent and Beefy187 is scum;
b) shlin28 is a Don.
EDIT: also, Beefy187 survived an attack on N1; the write-up also mentions that he was wearing a fedora.
Unvote; Vote: Beefy187
There's only one tiny, tiny bit of that problem with that resoning. We did NOT see you run around protecting pever that night either, as we should (anybody remember me quoting Seamus on this matter? :juggle2:) , even if both your partners failed to show up... This was a vigilante hit as well, so no reason for an exception from that rule.
So we have 3 protectors, where none did thier job. So we have:
a) Beefy187 is scum. (not seen any results on him, may have missed it)
b) shlin28 is a Don. (innocent according to Myrddraal)
c) Andres is a Don. (innocent according to Myrddraal)
Can anybody else confirm that Andres posted Myrddraal's results? Just for us outside that contact loop.
While I do suspect that someone in there have a special role (or were planning for the protection to fail), it should be the most corrupt protection group ever, should the guess be correct.
Vote:discovery1
While I do find it odd that his role is known, the fed might've been lucky. And we don't have any good optional candidates atm. ATPG is probably mafia or special role, I'll think it's a role, so it can be useful to determine his side before we'll do anything about him.
08-15-2009, 23:33
Leet Eriksson
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
I was going to abstain from voting, but that evidence against andres is pretty damning.
Vote: Andres
08-15-2009, 23:39
GeneralHankerchief
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Disco can't die.
08-16-2009, 00:00
Centurion1
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
disco cant die
That is a pretty interesting statement coming from a dead man.
Oh and FOS: Andres. tincow brought a lot of evidence to the table.
08-16-2009, 00:01
Double A
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
:inquisitive:
08-16-2009, 00:05
Chaotix
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
Disco can't die.
As in, "shouldn't" die, or literally is immune to dying?
I find the first explanation curious, and the second rather improbable.
I still think ATPG should be lynched. I usually don't go after him in the early game like others, but something about him seems very scummy to me this time, particularly the somewhat-indignant defense.
08-16-2009, 00:11
Joe Monks
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
I was actually going to vote disco. I can believe that he is a criminal - dont know how many wise guys there are, and in the absence of a definite suspect it would actually be a good thing to get rid of someone that can be recruited by the mafia.
However i do not believe as yet that anyone can know for sure that he is a luca - which brings me to pizza guy.
The thing is I don't trust this information coming from pizza guy at the moment at all. And if investigations
that people have going on him come up tomorrow night make him anti town he has to go down in flames.
BUT tincow holy :daisy: man. You very well may have uncovered a don.
I will vote andres if we cant confirm one question I have.
Did Myrdraal reveal to anyone else??
Joe
[Language please - GH]
EDIT: SORRY ;p edit 2: DAISY'S OWN
08-16-2009, 00:11
Kagemusha
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Good find Tincow! I think it is about time for Andres,Shlin and Beefy to open their mouths and start talking if we have found a Don its little more then a minor FOS.Also Myrddraal should also tell what he can while he is dead. More there is talk more there is chance that the scum will get caught.
Unvote
Vote: Andres
08-16-2009, 00:19
Reenk Roink
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Andres contacted me earlier today...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Oh, allmighty director.
My detective contact, Myrddraal, died tonight.
I'm a bit jobless at the moment, seeing that others didn't want to work with me to kill a suspect last night (wanted to take out AVSM or Khazaar).
Since Capo should be fun and not starting to become boring, I ask you if there is something a lowly townie as myself could do for you.
Andres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I didn't kill pever; me, shlin28 and Beefy187 sent in their orders. That's 3 and it should've been enough. Either shlin28 or Beefy187 retracted his orders.
shlin28 came up "innocent" upon investigation by Myrddraal. That means a) shlin28 is indeed innocent and Beefy is scum; b) shlin28 is a Don. Statistically, there's more chance that Beefy is scum. Are you 100 % sure about Beefy187?
I also have to ask this: are you scum, Reenk Roink?
A.
I'm not really feeling an Andres lynch over disco or Atpg though. I would just put him on the list (he's on the list - actually add more to his rap sheet).
08-16-2009, 00:28
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
How many people did Andres contact?
He sent me this message:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Ok, as you already know, Myrddraal was my detective contact.
Since my primary source of information has dried out, I'm a bit jobless for night actions (Moros and LittleGrizzly didn't want to cooperate for killing Khazaar or AVSM, they only wanted to do protections, don't know what to make of that).
I'm just a townie at the moment; can I be of use by joining a protection group or a vig squad next night?
A.
What time did you fellows receive your message? I'm aware of Andres' innocent result, because apparently Andres was investigated by both Myrddraal and my trusted source. However, if he told Tincow in private that protection groups
Quote:
As a townie, just doing protections at night won't do it. We need to take out scum by ourselves, because we simply don't have enough lynches; as long as you're not going further than Wiseguy, you're still on towns' side; we just need to avoid to become Made.
Why is he volunteering for them?
I'd be inclined to believe the detective result on Andres, but this bears further explanation. I can't have someone in pt groups working for me who believes they are a waste of time.
08-16-2009, 00:41
ULC
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
I'm going to agree with Reenk on this one - better to remove disco for now, or ATPG. If Andres is a Don, I'd almost guarantee he will die tonight, not sure a family would pass up a chance to kill him or shlin, whereas if we lynch disco, we open up another Don who can be removed.
I'm going to agree with Reenk on this one - better to remove disco for now, or ATPG. If Andres is a Don, I'd almost guarantee he will die tonight, not sure a family would pass up a chance to kill him or shlin, whereas if we lynch disco, we open up another Don who can be removed.
Thats wrong best way to kill a don is lynch him. Disco can be vigged whereas to get to andres at night one would have to kill his luca first .
Joe
08-16-2009, 00:49
Leet Eriksson
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by YLC
I'm going to agree with Reenk on this one - better to remove disco for now, or ATPG. If Andres is a Don, I'd almost guarantee he will die tonight, not sure a family would pass up a chance to kill him or shlin, whereas if we lynch disco, we open up another Don who can be removed.
You do realise that a don wouldn't leave his luca to do something that would leave him wide open like this would you now?
08-16-2009, 00:50
Joe Monks
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Actually I might miss deadline so VOTE:ANDRES
Joe
08-16-2009, 00:56
ULC
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Monks
Thats wrong best way to kill a don is lynch him. Disco can be vigged whereas to get to andres at night one would have to kill his luca first .
Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leet Eriksson
You do realise that a don wouldn't leave his luca to do something that would leave him wide open like this would you now?
It sounds like good reasoning to me - your assuming the other family's or vig's won't take advantage of the situation. Second, I'm a bit tired - going to bed and waking up later.
08-16-2009, 00:56
Caius
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
How many people did Andres contact?
I got the PM through RR.
08-16-2009, 01:24
woad&fangs
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
vote: beefy187
I think he is scum but I don't have any real evidence to support it. Mostly, I don't feel like throwing another vote on the Disco bandwagon and I object to abstain votes.
08-16-2009, 01:35
Beefy187
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by woad&fangs
vote: beefy187
I think he is scum but I don't have any real evidence to support it. Mostly, I don't feel like throwing another vote on the Disco bandwagon and I object to abstain votes.
Heres the evidence against me.
-Survived a night kill (I don't know why)
-Wearing a fedora (To frame me?)
- Failing several night protection (First one was because of inactivity of other players, second one I don't know why it failed)
The failed protection may have been my fault but not intentionally but i'm trying to find out why that happened.
I think all three of us (Shlin, Andres and me) is innocent.
08-16-2009, 01:50
atheotes
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Nobody saved either. If you had a group of three 'protecting' each, it seems only one out of six people showed up;
For Double A;
Only one person acted to defend Double A. And Double A still would have died if not for the extraordinary luck he had - both of the shooters' guns jamming at the same time.
As for Beskar, nobody showed up to save him. He survived because the third shooter simply didn't show up.
That means five (5) of your 'volunteers' did not show up.
So I think I'm gonna vote:Askthepizzaguy.
Why don't you let us know who those 'defenders' are?
CR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
I think I'll wait for the night results to come back before I automatically accept your interpretation of the writeup, though it does seem to support your argument. If, at that time, the results do come back saying people weren't doing their jobs, I'll gladly give you their names.
I believe all the night results are out... Do you have an update on this ATPG?
08-16-2009, 02:00
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
I believe all the night results are out... Do you have an update on this ATPG?
I have the results from the Double A protection, and that was: utter failure. There was at least one person who did not send in their order, possibly two. I did mention in an earlier post that a full investigation of each member is being conducted, tonight if possible. I have a top suspect but I don't want to slander anyone's name publicly unless I hear their side of the story.
If pressed, I'll give names, but I'd prefer to deal with it privately, if that's all right.
08-16-2009, 02:05
Double A
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
I feel so safe.
08-16-2009, 02:06
Askthepizzaguy
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
They won't be in protection groups of 3 again, and they won't be on you, Double A.
08-16-2009, 02:16
Double A
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Maybe they all did send their orders in.
08-16-2009, 02:51
Twilightblade
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Vote:abstain
I've had a thought, what if there are unlucky townies and if they participate in protection or kill groups the group fails?
It kinda makes sense seeing as there are lucky townies who survive attacks.
08-16-2009, 02:59
Double A
Re: Capo di Tutti Capi III (IN PLAY)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilightblade
Vote:abstain
I've had a thought, what if there are unlucky townies and if they participate in protection or kill groups the group fails?
It kinda makes sense seeing as there are lucky townies who survive attacks.
Was that in the last Capo?
And who would really participate in them unless it was mandatory or unwritten?
