Capo di Tutti Capi III [Concluded]

maybe i am not understanding it correctly... i see that the one person protecting you was good enough to eliminate the threat of a couple of the gunmen... i will rethink after i wake up... anyways my vote is not going to affect you... :Bow:

I remember when Tin Cow slayed some one in Swords of the Moon in a duel then Tin Cow got killed because he beat him. Poor guy, I was the only person who stood up for Tin Cow.

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

Your really expect town, to look at that and say it had to do with a GUN MALFUNCTION??:laugh4:

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That's how it was in capo II.

If I recall correctly....didn't Sasaki kill him? with a last ditch telling both guys in the duel (Ninja Master and Veteran Samurai) to kill themselves??:inquisitive:

Unvote Vote: Andres

Vote: AVSM

Anyone who says they have a source saying discovery is scum should first consider the possibility that it is the same person saying these things to all of you. Pizza, you have been very vocal as a proud defender of the town, a role you take on in every single mafia game I've ever played with you, so that means nothing to me in terms of determining whether you are pro town or scum. Anyone using that as a means to place innocence or guilt on you, either hasn't played with you before or might possibly have an agenda. A well connected guy such as yourself must have more then one friend with investigatory powers. Why not have this "source" investigated as well to prove or disprove reliability? There are many that are voting for him based purely on hearsay. If he is lynched and turns up town, you can all blame the source as the reason for this folly. However, if he is indeed mafia, it could be quite telling as to where your allegiance lays. Mediocre risk, very high reward.

This pizza guy mystery could be solved with a joint, cooperative effort by townies and scum. Even if he is scum, rival mafia will still stand to gain by having him checked out. If all players with investigatory powers all focus on potential targets together as one cohesive unit, we will have a much higher chance of winning this game. We need to organize an anonymous brigade of investigators who spy on townie targets of interest. I say we decide this round if such a move is worthy, and if so, who should be targeted first. There's no harm in discussion and I'm very interested to hear what the rest of you think of my idea.

Vote:Abstain

I dunno, kinda doubt that I do will change anyway, and the odds of me being up in time for the deadline are slim. Andres I guess. a Don is always a good choice.

Vote: Andres

Unvote, Vote: Andres

Hmm... a potential Luca or a Don...

Vote: Andres

All that I had to say is in the thread.

Yes, I sincerely believe that killing potential threats with vig squads is more useful than protecting random targets, because we simply don't have enough lynches to take out all scum and wannabe scum.

Think of that what you want.

I'm just a simple townie, no more, no less.

FoS : Xehh II and AggonyDuck

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Originally Posted by Andres

All that I had to say is in the thread.

Yes, I sincerely believe that killing potential threats with vig squads is more useful than protecting random targets, because we simply don't have enough lynches to take out all scum and wannabe scum.

I'm just a simple townie, no more, no less.

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I think Andres is the only pro-town player in the game.

In CAPO II we had more known mafia players - openly bragging about it too - than lynches and kills. Very frustrating.

After the game ended, I started counting how many players played as mafia. It turned out that the town was already outnumbered from Day 2. Incredible. It turned mafia game mechanics on its head.
So if you want to win as town, you'll have to do some kills. As Andres is doing. The town needs to keep the initiative, show that it is the winning side. Supress groups with designs.

Half the players will be opportunists, playing for whichever side promises the best chance of a win. They'll play for the town a bit, get a kill or two in, and then when the end-game comes, they'll decide their course, go for a power grab if possible, join a family, or return to the town if that looks like winning.

The downside of vigilante kills - and the beauty of this game - is that you breed what you are trying to supress: wiseguys and townies with blood on their hands and designs of their own. Simultaneously, the game leaves you no other option.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

I think Andres is the only pro-town player in the game.

In CAPO II we had more known mafia players - openly bragging about it too - than lynches and kills. Very frustrating.

After the game ended, I started counting how many players played as mafia. It turned out that the town was already outnumbered from Day 2. Incredible. It turned mafia game mechanics on its head.
So if you want to win as town, you'll have to do some kills. As Andres is doing. The town needs to keep the initiative, show that it is the winning side. Supress groups with designs.

Half the players will be opportunists, playing for whichever side promises the best chance of a win. They'll play for the town a bit, get a kill or two in, and then when the end-game comes, they'll decide their course, go for a power grab if possible, join a family, or return to the town if that looks like winning.

The downside of vigilante kills - and the beauty of this game - is that you breed what you are trying to supress: wiseguys and townies with blood on their hands and designs of their own. Simultaneously, the game leaves you no other option.

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Louis with all due respect but you are not even playing this game so what do you really know?

Vote: discovery1

Vote: Andres

Thanks for the heads-up, Louis.

Taking what limited info I think we have, I've attempted to create a model of what the current status of Fatlington could be. This is more or less a wild guess (emphasis on the wild guess) but it's an estimate. Any of you out there have some info to correct my estimate? I don't want to be speaking out of my :balloon2:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Assuming 76 players, 5 families, starting with 3 members each, assuming that they might have expanded to 5 members each by now, (aggressive estimate, I know you guys have uber skillz) and assuming that the unaffiliated wiseguys haven't been doing successful kills (not many so far), taking into account the known dead townies so far, expected dead townies (aggressive estimate favoring the mafia's side), and potentially dead scums and commies (from my perspective).... yadda yadda, fine print, etc.... probably off by a mile.... here we go:

estimated 5 Barzinis
estimated 5 Corleones
estimated 5 Cunios
estimated 4 Stracchis?
estimated 5 tataglias

estimated 5 dead loyal townies
estimated 2 dead mafia (1 made, 1 wise, probably)
estimated 2 dead commies

estimated 43 living town/bulk (group of townies, unaffiliated wise, serial killers, extra roles)
estimated 24 living committed gangsters (main families)

Or greater than 1 in 3 players in the game are committed gangsters. One suspected protown role dead. (Myrddraal maybe)

The unaffiliated wiseguys did not gain too many successful kills yet, by my estimate. This may have something to do with the massive amount of err..... protection groups. And hopefully discovery1 is indeed a Luca, that could really do some damage and tie things up between dead townies so far and dead scum and commies.

But even with estimates giving each family 2 successful recruits out of 3 nights, which I feel is rather generous, and assuming all the dead ones I can't account for are townies, which is rather generous, things still look cheerful for the town in Fatlington according to my estimate.

But at the end of the day, pizzaguy still knows nussing, and many scumbags out there snickering right now at him. Laugh it up while you still alive. You die maybe later. :mellow:

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Originally Posted by Seamus

Double A was heading for his car when the attack came. A quartet of Tommy gunners opened up from behind him and from across the street when he was only 30 feet or so from his car. Just as the gunmen behind him opened up, the thick door of a cab was opened immediately behind him, absorbing the shots that would have hammered into his back.

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Protector #1 opened the cab door.

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Originally Posted by Seamus

As he reached the side of his car, both of the Tommy gunners chasing him from behind made it around the outstretched – and obviously armored -- door of the now empty cab. Both of them were tackled by a masked figure hurtling out of the alleyway between two of the buildings, knocking their guns under the cab.

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Protector #2 tackled two of the gunmen.

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Originally Posted by Seamus

It was not enough. The remaining pair of Tommy gunners, unmolested, managed to get around the front and back of Double A’s armored car just before he could get the special lock open.

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Because protector #3 failed to show up.

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Originally Posted by Seamus

Both yanked on their triggers almost in unison to release a hail of…nothing. Both bolts had jammed at exactly the same instant – defying all the odds in the book.

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Ultimately, Double A survived because of luck, as sometimes happens in CDTC games.

I see nothing indicating protection by a doctor or Luca. Just a protection group which failed because it was missing a member.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

After the game ended, I started counting how many players played as mafia. It turned out that the town was already outnumbered from Day 2. Incredible. It turned mafia game mechanics on its head.
So if you want to win as town, you'll have to do some kills. As Andres is doing. The town needs to keep the initiative, show that it is the winning side. Supress groups with designs.

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I took the lead on organizing numerous vig kill groups in Capo 2, so I think I have some perspective on this. Vig kills are useful when you actually know your target is a mafioso. In Capo 2, we had a list of many confirmed mafioso that was obtained by guilty detective results and information gained from infiltrators. Here, the only 'guilty' results we have are on people are a vig kill that went through only because Andres' protection group failed, and ATPG. Under the circumstances, vig kills are very likely to result in the death of townies AND will move townies and wiseguys closer to joining mafia families.

Vig kills are acceptable when there are KNOWN mafioso that outnumber our ability to lynch them. Beyond that, it is just throwing townies and wiseguys into the open arms of the mafia. Do I need to remind you that last game the winning Don started the game as a townie?

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Louis with all due respect but you are not even playing this game so what do you really know?

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Gah! If I were playing you'd already have a long list of mafiosi to kill and

Sorry, don't mean to intrude upon the game or make any definitive statements of who's scum or not. I really don't have time to play, but am quite curious. So I'm just skimming the thread here and there, trying to see how this one's playing out. The 'vig kill or not' debate reminded me of the last Capo, so I shared some thoughts I had about that one.

ATPG counts 43 town vs 24 mafia in the game as of yet. I have no idea, I'll asume it is a good estimate. A lot of townies end up never being all that active, whereas mafia are. And others will go mafia. Both reduce the number of useful townies. So numbers may not be as overwhelmingly in favour of the town as one might expect in a mafia game. There may not be more than fifty truly active players left, with in fact a slight majority with mafia affiliation or aspiration.

About the wisdom of vigliante kills, and the when, where, why and by whom - TinCow is the experienced expert indeed.

Vote : Louise, i just don't like external pundits. ~;)

On a more serious note: I still find it hard to make a really informed decision. There are obviously a lot of accusations floating around some more, some less convincing to me.
What it comes down to is, that I will keep trusting pizza's information for now. So Vote:Disco.

@Kommodus:
That's how I understood the write-up as well.

@Skooma Addict:
I second your motion to try to organize the pro-town movement to some degree more openly.

Crap. Deadline

vote: Andres

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

A lot of townies end up never being all that active, whereas mafia are.

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This is what harms the town the most. Townies who go totally inactive and then get WOG'ed are what ultimately tips the game in the mafia's favor. I'm especially disappointed in those with zero posts who are actually well known mafia players here. We were bound to get a few newcomers dead on arrival, but I was looking forward to playing with certain players who are suspiciously silent.

takes out the pizza prod and prods:

Cowhead418
Dutch guy
TruePraetorian
Nole4694

And Greyblades, this post doesn't cut the mozzarella with me. You can do better, I know you're busy with your game, but CDF can replace you if you need to drop out.

FOS: Greyblades, Cowhead418 Because I know you were both active since the game began, you have your roles, you haven't contributed. And Dutch_guy.... you were active just recently elsewhere. I thought you were looking forward to this game? I am aware of a lot of pro-town roles, so I don't buy that these players dodging the thread as anything but scummy behavior. And if you are a pro-town role, and you don't like this unwanted attention, it's your own fault, you should have contributed more. Play the game, don't avoid it. :2thumbsup: Please. :bow:

*mutters* WOGbait townies or scums. Either way, pizzaguy is not happy with you. :smg:

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

Protector #1 opened the cab door.
Protector #2 tackled two of the gunmen.
Because protector #3 failed to show up.
Ultimately, Double A survived because of luck, as sometimes happens in CDTC games.

I see nothing indicating protection by a doctor or Luca. Just a protection group which failed because it was missing a member.

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hmm... i believe that if only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. I am confused... but no one else seems to think it matters...so i will let it go for now.

unvote, Vote: Andres

Ugh, deadline vote: abstain I need to catch up

Anyone have an accurate tally?

Funny you should ask.

Discovery1: 18 (Kommodus, Sasaki Kojiro, beskar, YLC, Askthepizzaguy, Double A, Psychonaut, Johnhughthom, slashandburn, Jolt, LittleGrizzly, SSNeoperestroika, Caius, spL1tp3r50naL1ty, Ironside, Beefy187, Diana Abnoba, Joooray)

Andres: 12 (Tincow, DisgruntledGoat, Leet Eriksson, Kagemusha, Joe Monks, Xehh II, discovery1, AggonyDuck, shlin28, Centurion1, Kukrikhan, atheotes)

Askthepizzaguy: 4 (Shinseikhaan, Crazed Rabbit, Chaotix, Rhyfelwyr)

Double A: 2 (Scottishranger, gibsonsg91921)

beefy187: 2 (Andres, woad&fangs)

AVSM: 1 (ACIN)

Abstain: Tratorix, Skooma Addict , Moros, twilightblade, Proletariat

i say lynch them both... andres is scum!

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Originally Posted by atheotes

hmm... i believe that if only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. I am confused... but no one else seems to think it matters...so i will let it go for now.

unvote, Vote: Andres

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As far as I understood it there were certain special conditions for characters in past capo games. So for example a person being lucky and by this being able to survive an attack. That might be something that kicked in in this situation. :shrug:

I hope for a tie. So Reenk can bring out the humiliation. :laugh4:

Unvote: Disco; Vote: Andres