Hitting Women

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Maybe it does work, I just wonder at the mindset of people who hit children, I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

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What's wrong with a good slap around the ears, never gotten one I didn't deserve.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Confession: I was with a woman when I was younger (this would be around the time of the Civil War), when she slapped me. Hard. I was completely surprised. I looked at her and asked, "What the **** was that about?"

She giggled and slapped me again. Hard. When she saw the look of shock and confusion on my face, she broke into full-out laughter.

Enough. I said, "Look, if you do that again I will hit you back."

She slapped my face again, just as hard as before. So I punched her in the gut.

She doubled over and began weeping, demanding to know what I had hit her. "Because you were ******* hitting me!" I said.

I probably should have just left, but it was in my own apartment, so I'm not sure where I would have gone.

There, now you know what a bad person the lemur is.

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Same thing happened to me in high-school. I was speaking with friends and 3 girls (one of them being a good friend) came and started to slap me while laugghing. When hit for the 3rd time, I slapt one of them so hard she fell on her back.
Once again, total confusion : "WHY OH WHY DID YOU DO THAT?" "Because you did it first."

Honestly, nowadays, I would just hit back after the first slapping (if it's not a friendly/sexual kind of slapping). Women shouldn't have less rights than men, but they don't have an inherent right to slap
men either.

Edit: Slapping children is the best way to ensure a correct education. I'm constantly amazed by the sad state of personnal education in anglo-saxon countries (ie. US, Canada, England). People are not allowed to slap or hit kids, and their children all end up as a bunch of spoiled, useless and unskilled idiots. Among the hundreds of Canadians and Americans I met, probably not even 5% of them could cook something decent or clean an appartement.
I would have spanked my roommates' ass and slaped their face to the moon only to teach them how to clean a living room or a wahsroom.
Edit2: In regard to that, french youth is not much better. I blame the whole "you should neither spank your kids nor give them homework" crap that parents are constantly being brainwashed with.
End of my out of topic rant.

Slapping women? Punching her in the stomach? In revenge? Gah! Cave-dwelling troglodytes! :no:

Me, I am far too refined for such brute reactions.
Instead, I always make sure to wear a sturdy leather belt. With the beltbuckle always on the left. That way, with just a single hand I can undo my belt and in one fell swoop strike her down with it before she has even finished her sentence. (right-handed)

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

Edit: Slapping children is the best way to ensure a correct education. I'm constantly amazed by the sad state of personnal education in anglo-saxon countries (ie. US, Canada, England). People are not allowed to slap or hit kids, and their children all end up as a bunch of spoiled, useless and unskilled idiots. Among the hundreds of Canadians and Americans I met, probably not even 5% of them could cook something decent or clean an appartement.
I would have spanked my roommates' ass and slaped their face to the moon only to teach them how to clean a living room or a wahsroom.
Edit2: In regard to that, french youth is not much better. I blame the whole "you should neither spank your kids nor give them homework" crap that parents are constantly being brainwashed with.
End of my out of topic rant.

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very much agreed with you and frag.

i was smacked and occasionally belted, and it never did me any harm.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

very much agreed with you and frag.

i was smacked and occasionally belted, and it never did me any harm.

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I wasn't and I turned out fine.

good for you, so you won't be calling for a ban on smacking then?

after all, if its equally successful then you'd consider it rude to interfere with how families choose to discipline their children.........

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Originally Posted by CountArach

I wasn't and I turned out fine.

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Sure, but I kinda tested my luck. Didn't get me anything. My dad was great, and occasionally somewhat displeased, I'd would have kicked me.

I believe currently in the UK parents can hit children as long as they don't cause bruising. Assuming that this is for discipline, I think that the amount of pain and social embarassment to the child that an open handed smack to the backside can cause should be more than adequate.

In most cases as long as the rules are fair, well understood and enforced there is often no need to have the punishment as the knowledge that it is there is enough. Most children can behave in these situations. My young cousins changed overnight when away from their mother to their aunt (my mother). Suddenly rules were inforced and bad behaviour resulted in punishment. They wern't stupid, and so quickly found that behaving well resulted in praise and time to do what they wanted.

~:smoking:

I don't think there should be a ban on smacking, I don't even think its that bad, when I was younger I would have rather got smacked than my Game Boy (Pokemon!) or whatever taken away.

What I'm saying is, now I'm older, I can't imagine hitting a child.

I remember when my sisters and I were kids and used to fight. Smacking us might stop the current bickering and "3 Stooges Act", but it wouldn't take too long before we started up again.

The most effective punishment ever was devised by our mother. She used to make us sit together, each on their own chair in a corner, and hold hands for an hour. We used to sit as far apart as possible, just so our hands touched, but get caught not holding hands before the time was up extended our stay in the corner an extra 15 minutes. It didn't take long for the threat of that particular punishment to modify our behavior.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I believe currently in the UK parents can hit children as long as they don't cause bruising. Assuming that this is for discipline, I think that the amount of pain and social embarassment to the child that an open handed smack to the backside can cause should be more than adequate.

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the laws in the UK seem okay to me, there was a fuss when they were announced, but in reality, parents rarely hit children hard enough to 'seriously' hurt them. As with all things, its about moderation.

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

Slapping children is the best way to ensure a correct education. I'm constantly amazed by the sad state of personnal education in anglo-saxon countries (ie. US, Canada, England). People are not allowed to slap or hit kids, and their children all end up as a bunch of spoiled, useless and unskilled idiots. Among the hundreds of Canadians and Americans I met, probably not even 5% of them could cook something decent or clean an appartement.

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I wasn't slapped as a child, and can cook and clean well enough. Theres much more to parenting than enforcing discipline... like showing children how to cook and clean.

:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

That's not what I'm saying, but generally speaking when you have your average female and male without black belts, then

In a Public Policy class (yeah i had to take that stupid subject to fill up credits), the tutor for my group was a diehard feminist. And when some of the guys were discussing this matter, making the same points as most here, the teacher was appalled at what they were saying. Without going into fantastical scenarious as if your girlfriend is Uma Thurman coming at you with her Kill Bill samurai sword, generally speaking you should have no reason to hit a woman. The vast majority of cases of men hitting women will be drunken men beating their wives. I know there are actually cases of domestic violence when the opposite happens, in which case the man should defend himself. Obviously, if you are in serious danger you defend yourself, even if it means taking out the enemy. But in average day to day life for relatively sane couples, just don't hit women.

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So hitting a man without being afraid of your life is fine or are you saying that there is absolutely no difference anyway in which case this whole "you do not hit a woman" thing would be completely superfluous anyway...

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

Maybe it does work, I just wonder at the mindset of people who hit children, I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

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Isn't there some part in the bible that says he who loves his children will beat them or something to that effect? A slap on the cheek won't damage a child unless it's a really brutal slap which is not what I'm talking about. The child will subcobnsciously associate certain things with pain and not do them anymore, similar to how it learns that touching a hot oven is painful and should not be done.
If you think I was beating my sister around until she turned blue and purple, please think again.
I was slapped as well and I turned out fine, my parents never needed a super nanny for me, old argument but still valid.

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

I wasn't slapped as a child, and can cook and clean well enough. Theres much more to parenting than enforcing discipline... like showing children how to cook and clean.

:2thumbsup:

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I think every child is different and there is no standard procedure that works with every child, the cooking and cleaning come somewhat naturally to me and although the cooking could be debated, it's good enough for myself. ~D

In that sense I might add to the abocve that I only ever slapped my sister after she kept harassing me after repeated warnings, she had a phase where she did that, sometimes for hours, when she was bored, now that she is older and more reasonable, it's superfluous and we get along fine as I said, I'm sure there are children who are nicer "per default", as for myself, I had to learn this hitting after prior warning thing from my parents (who also slapped me, cruel evil people as they were ~:rolleyes:), for a long time before that in primary school, I would often start fights with people who provocated me and it would always turn out ugly(the other guy was a wuss and ran crying to my teacher...), the whole warning thing worked wonders after a while I must say. ~D
I think there was also a girl who got into the fights sometimes and it was all pretty even, sounds like I had a rough time at primary school but in general it was all a lot nicer than the mental cruelties I was subjected to at high school, where beating was mostly a taboo...

Does spanking qualify as hitting?

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Originally Posted by Husar

...Isn't there some part in the bible that says he who loves his children will beat them or something to that effect? A slap on the cheek won't damage a child unless it's a really brutal slap which is not what I'm talking about. The child will subcobnsciously associate certain things with pain and not do them anymore, similar to how it learns that touching a hot oven is painful and should not be done....

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by King James Bible

Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

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It doesn't appear outside of Proverbs, save for one verse referring to enduring harship for the faith as sons endure discipline from fathers (Heb 12:6-7).

This is really just me going with my gut. As I said hitting children may be do the trick, I just can't imagine doing it myself. Solomon can beat his children, but if Jesus had any I don't think he would. You can still discipline children without physically hitting them.

Anyway, I have somehow managed to derail another thread and get people quoting Bible passages without bringing it up first, so now I shall leave. Fare ye well!

The Naughty Step.

Or the worse abuse of all, ignoring your children.

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

This is really just me going with my gut. As I said hitting children may be do the trick, I just can't imagine doing it myself. Solomon can beat his children, but if Jesus had any I don't think he would. You can still discipline children without physically hitting them.

Anyway, I have somehow managed to derail another thread and get people quoting Bible passages without bringing it up first, so now I shall leave. Fare ye well!

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Rhy, are you maybe saying that Jesus wouldn't agree with everything written in the Bible?:beam:

Anyway, I would spank my kids in very extreme cases, there are instances where I might cane them (never the belt), but if it got to that point I would consider I had really failed as a parent.

FYI, I never did anything to get either the cane or the belt from my father, my mother used the Wooden Spoon once or twice, I think that was it.

wait wait... don't you passionately kiss the woman after she slaps you?

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

good for you, so you won't be calling for a ban on smacking then?

after all, if its equally successful then you'd consider it rude to interfere with how families choose to discipline their children.........

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Wait.. what? That's got to be the worst argument ever...

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Originally Posted by Big_John

wait wait... don't you passionately kiss the woman after she slaps you?

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Yes, but there's a chance that she will bite your tongue off...

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Does spanking qualify as hitting?

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I'm assuming not if she enjoys it, telling whether she does or not is a whole other kettle of fish.

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

I wasn't slapped as a child, and can cook and clean well enough. Theres much more to parenting than enforcing discipline... like showing children how to cook and clean.

:2thumbsup:

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Oh yeah. Slapping isn't always necessary. Different kids have different personalities. Different parents have different ways to educate their children, and some of those don't involve any spanking.

What I'm trying to say is that there's a general 'the kid is the king' ideology developing througout the world (it does not only hit Europe or North America, but also China, Mexico, etc.), according to which a child should live and behave as he wants because opposing or disagreeing with him would hurt his personality/growth/whatever other crap.

I was by all standards a monster when I was a kid. My mum smacked me good a whole lot of times, and I'm glad she did it. Some of my friends weren't spanked and turned out good too. That's fine by me, I'm not advocating the constant use of violence to educate children. I'm just saying that children are not kings of the hill, and that the current education most kids are given is only producing a heap lot of lazy, vulgar and useless idiots who show no respect whatsoever for anything.

One of my mum's friend adopted two kids from Tahiti twelve years ago. Both kids (a boy and a girl) were at first quite nice, a bit shy and what not. As said friend was an adept of the "You shall not oppose your kids" way, both turned into huge useless assholes. The boy is stealing his stepmother's car and driving it without licence and dealing marijuana, while the girl, who goes on her 17, already had an abortion, about 20 boyfriends, and got fired from all her past schools and jobs because nobody could stand her.
At that point they're pretty much lost and will be a burden for society for the rest of their sad little life.

Edit: Just in case, I'm not a totalitarian thinking all kids should be turned into brainless robots. I'd like everyone to be an enlightened humanist, not a uneducated, useless punk.

The only argument that I can think of against smacking your kid occasionally is that it requires moderation and judgement. There'll always be moronic or emotionally unstable parents who can't see that there's a world of difference between spanking and beating the crap out of someone. Some will do the latter and still believe that they're doing it for the good of the kid.

So I wouldn't recommend it or do it myself, but saying that all spanking equals child abuse is :daisy:

On another note, could we scrap the outdated "Women are flowers, men are pigs" cliché ?

Courtesy and gallantry are fine, bit if a woman deserves a beating, there's no reason she shouldn't get it.
Courtly love is hopefully gone. If you think hitting a woman unbelievable, I can't see how you'd advocate hitting a man. Both are equaly wrong, period. Either you allow it for both sexes or you accept it for both.

1. to hit a child is sometimes the best thing.
2. some people hit their childs when it is not right.

How do you solve this?

You make a law about hitting your child.

If it goes to court you are bound to have done something wrong.

My father hit me once.. Even I realised I was out of control. Did it go to court, no!

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

On another note, could we scrap the outdated "Women are flowers, men are pigs" cliché ?

Courtesy and gallantry are fine, bit if a woman deserves a beating, there's no reason she shouldn't get it.
Courtly love is hopefully gone. If you think hitting a woman unbelievable, I can't see how you'd advocate hitting a man. Both are equaly wrong, period. Either you allow it for both sexes or you accept it for both.

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There's nothing wrong with the narrative of Courtly Love, it improves the behaviour of both sexes, which is why it was invented.

Also, the fact is that a woman is, all else being equal, going to be weaker than you by default, her bones more delicate, her face-bones in particular more fragile, her shoulders narrower, reflexes slower and muscles not only less in terms of size but also endurance. Men are stone-cold killing machines. Women only fight like that if you threaten their children.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

There's nothing wrong with the narrative of Courtly Love, it improves the behaviour of both sexes, which is why it was invented.

Also, the fact is that a woman is, all else being equal, going to be weaker than you by default, her bones more delicate, her face-bones in particular more fragile, her shoulders narrower, reflexes slower and muscles not only less in terms of size but also endurance. Men are stone-cold killing machines. Women only fight like that if you threaten their children.

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Exactly, that's why women should never hit a man first because they know once he retaliates by hitting them on the nose, their face will fall apart...