UK English Grammar vs. US English Grammar

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Actually, I'd be more inclined to say:

"Excuse me, could I see the bill please?

You're example provokes the "sod off" response for obvious reasons.

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You see, this is what *I* hate. :wall:

Drat!

This thread has run on for four pages before I saw it!:laugh4:


Anyway, who ever said that the British is correct because it is English , (if they did) is so full of it!

Yes, all my spelling depends on Microsoft, but you may want to research the language before making blanket statements everyone.

The oldest spoken English comes from districts in Dublin.

Spelling wasn’t fixed in the language until Noah Webster started spelling reforms....he was one anal-retentive old cuss, but American. The English got around to fixed spelling some time later.


You can’t just say that A) is wrong and B) is right but American English is older in origin than the standard British English.:smash:


:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

You see, this is what *I* hate. :wall:

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Its a disaster.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

The oldest spoken English comes from districts in Dublin.

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Wait, what?

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Originally Posted by Viking

Its a disaster.

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I'm guessing that was intentional. :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Drat!You can’t just say that A) is wrong and B) is right but American English is older in origin than the standard British English.:smash:


:laugh4:

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Ah, so thats why Hollywood always casts Americans who can't fake a British Accent, for roles meant to be played by 17th Century Englishmen/women. It's more authentic. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Drat!

This thread has run on for four pages before I saw it!:laugh4:


Anyway, who ever said that the British is correct because it is English , (if they did) is so full of it!

Yes, all my spelling depends on Microsoft, but you may want to research the language before making blanket statements everyone.

The oldest spoken English comes from districts in Dublin.

Spelling wasn’t fixed in the language until Noah Webster started spelling reforms....he was one anal-retentive old cuss, but American. The English got around to fixed spelling some time later.


You can’t just say that A) is wrong and B) is right but American English is older in origin than the standard British English.:smash:


:laugh4:

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First comprehensive dictionary in English was Samuel Johnson (1755), that's where our spellings originate, and it's the starting point for the OED.

Webster didn't have decisive impact, did he?

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Spelling wasn’t fixed in the language until Noah Webster started spelling reforms....he was one anal-retentive old cuss, but American. The English got around to fixed spelling some time later.

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Nah, it isn't fixed, full of errors. Shavian is closer to being actually fixed English, though Esperanto is closer to a fixed language.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

First comprehensive dictionary in English was Samuel Johnson (1755), that's where our spellings originate, and it's the starting point for the OED.

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Wasn't that destroyed in a fire though? Or am I confusing that with another book?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Wasn't that destroyed in a fire though? Or am I confusing that with another book?

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No no, Blackadder's play was destroyed in the fire.He thought he destroyed the dictionary.

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

Ah, so thats why Hollywood always casts Americans who can't fake a British Accent, for roles meant to be played by 17th Century Englishmen/women. It's more authentic. :laugh4:

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I am sure it is only accidental, but yes it is more of the sound of the age.

Most Elizabethan speakers would have sounded like Dubliners to our ears.

North American speakers reflect the vowel sounds of the 17th and 18th century.

The change occurred in England, not abroad.

The Australians reflect the changed sounds at the time of there settlement and the further change can hear in the further changes of the New Zealanders who were settled later.

Spelling is more arbitrary and reflects the vowel sounds of the person who decided that what thy wrote was correct.

Think of how the spelling would have changed if the first dictionary were published in Cork or Glasgow.

What we think of as standard English (BBC English) didn’t come about until the mid 1820s. Prior to that the standard form would have sounded more like a North American speaker.

I have to agree with much of what Fisher King has said.

"American" English does have some structures and cadences that are older in form that "British" or English" English.

That doesn't make it better or worse, just interestingly different. Then again, I speak with a "northern" accent as far as many of my colleagues are concerned (southern wendies that many of them are, of course :clown:). Is that better or worse, or just different? Does it matter? Well, no.

Changes in British/English English are the result of having an overseas empire, as much as anything else. You only have to look at the number of borrowed (or stolen) words in English to realise how much the language was changed by the Imperial experience.

But the thing that really buggered up demotic English, IMO, in its homeland was "Received Pronunciation", the kind of strangulated waffle that was became good BBC announcer English and the way to be an "ack-tor" at one point. I'm of the opinion that this form can be traced back to social snobbery in Victorian England. This meant that local accents and dialects were abandoned by the middle and aspirant classes in droves: the result was a change in pronunciations that we're still going through.

Aye it's a good point about how the Empire affected spoken English. There are a lot of words in British English that have their roots in Urdu/Hindi.

Blighty. Decca. Chivvy. Bungalow. All words purloined from the sub-continent. As the septics decided to leave the Empire at just about the point that India was being invited to join, there's no surprise that the language diverged.

As a northern speaker myself I have to say bath is correct, Not barth.

(southern wendies lmfao :laugh4:)

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

As a northern speaker myself I have to say bath is correct, Not barth.

(southern wendies lmfao :laugh4:)

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Gah! Something else I hate: :wall:

Wash my arse is OK.

Warsh my arse isn't!

I'm going to have a baaarth.
Going to baaathe.

How we say it. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants

But the thing that really buggered up demotic English, IMO, in its homeland was "Received Pronunciation", the kind of strangulated waffle that was became good BBC announcer English and the way to be an "ack-tor" at one point. I'm of the opinion that this form can be traced back to social snobbery in Victorian England. This meant that local accents and dialects were abandoned by the middle and aspirant classes in droves: the result was a change in pronunciations that we're still going through.

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Exactly!

It is the only know language change that cam from the upper classes down. The stretched hollow vowels and the dropping of the “R” sound in the middle of words.:smash:

We also owe the North of England a great linguistic debt. They gave us our “S” plurals. Had it been left to the south we would have a system like the Germans, which is no system at all that I can detect. You just memorize the plural. They must have 40 ways to do it.

:laugh4:

Received Pronunciation aka, the Queen's English.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Most Elizabethan speakers would have sounded like Dubliners to our ears.

North American speakers reflect the vowel sounds of the 17th and 18th century.

The change occurred in England, not abroad.

The Australians reflect the changed sounds at the time of there settlement and the further change can hear in the further changes of the New Zealanders who were settled later.

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I've heard it argued that there's a general trend toward more conservative language in colonies compared to home countries. A possible explanation is that the colonists, leaving so much behind and facing so much change, look for things they can hold on to, and that language can fill that role. In the home country, without such worry and clinging, language change proceeds more naturally.

Ajax

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

That's because it's nothing but Ital's. Going into a restaurant in Jersey is like walking into a buzzsaw. Loud, confusing, and lots of guys who shop at the big n tall.

The correct thing to do is this:

Sir, May I have the check?

Yes sir, I'll bring that right out to you

Thank you

You're welcome.

No yelling and no demanding. You yankees are always in a hurry.

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You rednecks always have to make things so complicated. :dizzy2: Why say all that when you can just stick your finger in the air, Exclaim, "Check Please!" Recieve the check, then say "Thanks" and Thats it?:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

An entire conversation, in English, without any occurrence of that most essential of British words: 'please'.


:wall:


See, this is what I meant in the 'you uncivili(z/s)ed brute' thread. It is not so much the words or the spelling, but the use of language that is the most telling difference between American or British English.

Strike's conversation just screams 'America'. Here's the same conversation in Britain:
'Excuse me, could we have the cheque please?'
'Sod off, mate'
'Oh pardon me. Ever so sorry to disturb you'
'Can't you see I'm busy, you *anagram of Newark*?'

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You may have noticed that the much shorter NJ way of doing it actually does include "please".

That's why it works so well. Polite and Assertive, as well as short and to the point. :smash:

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Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

You rednecks always have to make things so complicated. :dizzy2: Why say all that when you can just stick your finger in the air, Exclaim, "Check Please!" Recieve the check, then say "Thanks" and Thats it?:inquisitive:

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Rednecks? I'm sorry we have class and manners. I'm sorry we're not in a rush to do everything, slow down you'll live longer.

You yankees are just like Europeans. You're fast paced and you talk funny.

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I'm sorry we have class and manners.

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Apology Accepted. We were really getting tired of you being so stuck up, ya know.


:laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4:

So SFTS is a Southern Gentleman? The height of Texan Culture?The zenith of American sophistication?

Wellll, I guess those would all mean something if that excellent quote by Jacques Chirac that Louis has in his sig wasn't true :beam:

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Rednecks? I'm sorry we have class and manners. I'm sorry we're not in a rush to do everything, slow down you'll live longer.

You yankees are just like Europeans. You're fast paced and you talk funny.

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I take it you can actually satisfy honour with a sabre or rapier, then?

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I take it you can actually satisfy honour with a sabre or rapier, then?

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A gentleman knows that pistols are just as permitted, and in such a case, I for one would not be keen to face a Texan on the field of honour.

My lily liver however, would be saved because the fellow would still be searching for the field of honor at the appointed hour... :wink:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

A gentleman knows that pistols are just as permitted, and in such a case, I for one would not be keen to face a Texan on the field of honour.

My lily liver however, would be saved because the fellow would still be searching for the field of honor at the appointed hour... :wink:

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A Texan's only weapon of honour is of course, his fists. And they duel to the death.

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

A Texan's only weapon of honour is of course, his fists.

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Nonsense, sirrah. A gentlemen does not duel with fisticuffs and Texans are gentlemen. Boxing is a sport.

Those Mexican fellows at the Alamo were met with lead and cold steel. Maybe a barbeque grating or two, historians appear to be unclear on the latter.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

A gentleman knows that pistols are just as permitted, and in such a case, I for one would not be keen to face a Texan on the field of honour.

My lily liver however, would be saved because the fellow would still be searching for the field of honor at the appointed hour... :wink:

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My assumption was that, being Texan, he was proficient with with firearms, Sir.

Eh I'm not a Southern Gentleman. They tend to drink fruity cocktails and like boys. Not to mention I'm from Texas not the south

I'm more of a cowboy.

Why need Brittish and American English, when we have OrgSpeak.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...43#post2221243