Europe's demographic crisis

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

There is a battle going on now between us and radical Muslims who would change the world to resemble the middle east. Now if you see nothing wrong with that and believe that their society is just as good as ours and dont mind it replacing ours then what can I say?

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And how exactly do you think that they are going to do this? At the moment they can kill people. They can't all force us to convert to their twisted version is Islam. So terrorists can't 'replace our society'.

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Actually I even agree to some extent with that statement (surprise, surprise ). While I do not buy into the fear that "Western Christian culture" will be destroyed by immigrants, we certainly should take care that immigrants show more willingness to integrate into the society they physically became part of (however, I also think that the society they come into should also show the willingness to integrate them).
I love and enjoy cultural diversity - but cultural diversity should mean that we have various cultures that live together and share their distinctive features (without completely giving up to many) - it should never lead to the development of ghettos and various cultures living in parallel worlds with limited contact, forming sub-societies within a country.
That would indedd be a threat to a democratic society.

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I know when I came to America and wanted to be a citizen I had to know more US history and civics than most US kids know.I was really impressed.

Is it the same way in Germany and the rest of Europe? If i remember right, i saw on german tv there was a small contraversy over that kind of thing, but I may be wrong.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

I know when I came to America and wanted to be a citizen I had to know more US history and civics than most US kids know.I was really impressed.

Is it the same way in Germany and the rest of Europe? If i remember right, i saw on german tv there was a small contraversy over that kind of thing, but I may be wrong.

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To my knowledge this is not the case in Germany - but to some extent such a thing might actually be a good idea, especially learning the language should be mandatory as it is not only the key to successful integration but also an indicator of how willing a person is to integrate (and learning a language does not mean that you are going to give up your own culture).

There has indeed been some controversy in Germany and our conservative oarty, the CDU/CSU invented the term "Leitkultur" to which immigrants should adhere - I do not want to insinuate any motives here, but IMO (and a lot of other people's opinion as well) this term was a very poor choice, as it somehow has a very old-fashioned touch that might evoke some negative connotations (i.e. it provokes associations with a certain period in our history ~;) ) - and as always, a poor choice of words distracts from the actual, and necessary, discussion (typical for Germany).

I do think that learning a language that the country you live in is very important. It is difficult to get a good job when you can't speak the same language that everyone else does, it's just common sense. It is fine if they continue to speak and teach their children their language, but it's just logical to speak the same langauge as everyone else wherever you are living.

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

I do think that learning a language that the country you live in is very important. It is difficult to get a good job when you can't speak the same language that everyone else does, it's just common sense. It is fine if they continue to speak and teach their children their language, but it's just logical to speak the same langauge as everyone else wherever you are living.

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I would definitely agree with you on that point. Learning the country's language is vital for integration.

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Originally Posted by bmolsson

Just for the record;

Indonesians don't need any help with sex or reproduction.... ~D

bmolsson is a Swede and will always be one. Even though he have adapted to the Indonesian passion for sex and reproduction...... ~;)

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I thought you were an Indonesian muslim with multiple wives. Which is it?

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Originally Posted by Marcellus

I would definitely agree with you on that point. Learning the country's language is vital for integration.

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Forcing people to learn English is racist. Just ask La Rasa!

Este es una pais hispanico, y ustedes, los gringos, necesitan aprender este!!!

One question I've always had for La Rasa, and other "USA is a Latino country" groups... isn't it equally racist for them to not make their website and literature available in Russian, Chinese and Arabic, let alone English...

Redleg Looks like someone is atrolling -
Does it ?
Oh my someone needs to drink some ale
Wrong country , you cannot get decent Ale in this country , but I will be drinking Ale next month , until then I shall stick to the Porter ~:cheers:

Ohh a holocaust reference. That must have taken a lot of thought for you to come up with.
Is it a holocaust reference Panzer , or is it a comparison of what you are proposing by denying citizens of a country their rights based solely on their personal religion ?

Because you misunderstand me. Its not the biological but the ethics of western civilization Im worried about losing. There is a battle going on now between us and radical Muslims who would change the world to resemble the middle east.
Then what is the relevance of declining birth rates Gawain ?
Or for that matter what is the relevance of any of the points (most of which are entirely spurious especially the sewage system and emptying landscape) in the article to radical Muslims ?

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Originally posted in Spanish
Este es una pais hispanico, y ustedes, los gringos, necesitan aprender este!!!

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Yeah! My pitiful 3 years of very lax high-school Spanish have paid off! I vaguely understand! W00t!

Ahem. Don, you are right as ever. Not that it'll change much. ~:handball:

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

=Gawain of Orkeny]And when the last couple has the last kid then what?
What is this the high school debating club? We both know that's neve gonna hapen.

He didnt say it effected all of Germany .
Well then that's called *cherry-picking*. Anyone with half a brain can just pick 2 or more towns(not cities) and say they have sewage problems in any country of the world.


Obviously your not a christian.
So what? Only are allowed to have family values?


And it also has nothing to do with being a christian however I would maintain that being a christain does indeed effect how you treat your wife. Muslims treat their very differently just in case you hadnt noticed.
I'm not talking about other religions. To me they are all equally worthless. In Europe white europeans are not converting to Islam, so even that point is void. Seeing as most prefer atheism, there's nothing there that allows for debauchery that hasn't already existed when everyone was Christian.


Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Isn't that the way we have always lived? Seriously. Has there ever been theocracy in the US, because that's the only way what you just described could have been prevented.



Wait until you have one. I grew up with 6 brothers and I wouldnt want any of them not to have been born even though I would have had much more monetary things as a kid and a much bigger inheritance now.
I'm miserable enough with one brother, any more and I would be suicidal. To think of all the money that could have been spent on me instead of him is mind-boggling.

The article is stupid. Period. :book:

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Gawain; Rebuttle?...

Or do I admit that I am right?

Being in Florida, there is always a problem with Mexican Immigrants (aliens cought)
There are Mexicans who are legal. It's the illegal ones I'm worried about.
They come to this country, speaking Spanish, and work in the fields all day, then go home with an american dollar in their pockets.
Well, the problem is that they don't become citizens, so they don't speak English , and if they get in trouble, they can't speak for themselves, they also exploit the system by sending their children to schools, and have the tax payers of America send their child through.
So support bill 997, now in the House of Representatives :D

Anyway, the illegal immigrants also have a effect of the votes. They can waltz up to a voting booth in Texas, say "I'm American Citizen" vote for the guy who gives you rights that your not entitled to, such as driving permits, etc. The voting authorities can't do anything about it, and the politicians are exploiting a demographic.

Thats also why I support the volunteers along the Mexican Arizona/New Mexico/ Texas/ California border. If you want to become Americans, ask. Otherwise, go to your leader, tell them to "go to hell", and form your own demographic to influence the vote. Then form your nation into a land of milk and honey, and be content.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Forcing people to learn English is racist.

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I'm not forcing everyone in the world to speak English, I'm simply saying that if you are going to live in a country, then you should at least have basic communication skills sufficient to integrate into the society in a reasonable way. And I'm not saying that you have to know English before you enter the country, just that you should make an effort to learn it at some point.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

and work in the fields all day

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contributing to your economy, and presumably paying taxes (if they are not, then you really should be prosecuting them)

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

They can waltz up to a voting booth in Texas, say "I'm American Citizen"

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Do you not actually check whether someone is registered to vote before letting them? Becuase if you don't, then you really should.

In Texas, I believe it is against the law to ask if someone is an American citizen. (I may be wrong)
Aliens and outsourcing seem to be the economic problems of America.
Aliens, Indians, and Chinese all work for less. Thus the buisnesses decide to employ them.

Aliens will work for squat, to be a bathroom cleaner, janitor, etc. while the rest of America will work for a certain wage, unions, etc. The influx in southern california (Los Angeles) has created a large group of Mexicans who join gangs (maybe a sterotype) and then they can stay in America, and the police can do little to stop you.
Maybe the Mexicans can be depoted to France, and work for squat, and add to the population!

I'll probably be called racist for "hating mexicans" or being "anti-mexican"
Hey, your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

In Texas, I believe it is against the law to ask if someone is an American citizen. (I may be wrong)

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You're not allowed to ask them if they are a US citizen? It sounds a bit stupid, IMO.

There Texans! All they care about is
a)cattle
B)ranch
c)BBQ
d)hot chicks
e)good old America
Which is what many believe in as well.
Anyway, a election monitor, or whatever at a polling place cannot ask anyone if they are a United States citizen.

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Gawain; Rebuttle?...

Or do I admit that I am right?...

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Sorry unlike you I have to go to work to feed my face and pay the rent.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
=Gawain of Orkeny]And when the last couple has the last kid then what?
What is this the high school debating club? We both know that's neve gonna hapen.

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I dont. Hey how many Romans do you know? Once your population drops below a certain level you will dissapear.

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He didnt say it effected all of Germany .
Well then that's called *cherry-picking*. Anyone with half a brain can just pick 2 or more towns(not cities) and say they have sewage problems in any country of the world.

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Because of immigration? Go ahead give me a few.

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Obviously your not a christian.
So what? Only are allowed to have family values?

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Well from judging your posts here I must say yours seem to be sadly lacking but thats not Im talking about. My point is you have no understanding of what makes christains tick.

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Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Isn't that the way we have always lived? Seriously. Has there ever been theocracy in the US, because that's the only way what you just described could have been prevented.

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Well thats not how it was when I grew up and thats certainly not what christains are taught. There has never nor will there ever be a theocracy here yet what you say will never happen used to be the norm.

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I'm miserable enough with one brother, any more and I would be suicidal. To think of all the money that could have been spent on me instead of him is mind-boggling.

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The only thing I can deduce from this is that basicly your just a miserable person ~D

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Then what is the relevance of declining birth rates Gawain ?

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It means were dissappearing. There is a good chance our way of life could dissappear as well. Geez if we were spotted owls you would be all worried about how to save us.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

In Texas, I believe it is against the law to ask if someone is an American citizen. (I may be wrong)

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You are wrong.

COuld you explain, and inform the general public.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

COuld you explain, and inform the general public.

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Well first you will have to address what exactly you were refering to about asking for citizenship.

I work in Texas and as part of my job - I interview people, and on the application it states are you a citizen of the United States, if not do you have a legal right to work in the country?

Then when you get a driver license - last time I did anyway - you had to provide a social security number for the driver license. Which while not a direct way to ask and not fool-proof - because there are fraudlent SSN out there - it is an indirect way to ask someone their citizenship. Motor Voter is activitly pursued in Texas - and yes any legal immigrant can get a diver license and sometimes if the clerk is not paying attention they get a voter registration card also.

And finally when I went to vote - you must show your voter registration card - or if it is not in your procession - you must show a valid photo identification.

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Originally Posted by Gawain

I dont. Hey how many Romans do you know? Once your population drops below a certain level you will dissapear.

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You can't just use any examples to prove anything. Modern Japan is nothing like the Late Roman Empire. Japan has no immigration, there's never gonna be another group of people taking over so eventually when their population drops enough, they will beomc poor and start rasing it again.

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Originally Posted by Gawain

Well thats not how it was when I grew up and thats certainly not what christains are taught.

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I was raised Christian, but I have grown to hate the whole concept in the last year, and I have become Atheist. It may have been all the radical philosophy I've been readin the past year or it may just have been my personal enlightenment(or a compbination), but I feel great and liberated nontheless.

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Originally Posted by Gawain

It means were dissappearing. There is a good chance our way of life could dissappear as well. Geez if we were spotted owls you would be all worried about how to save us.

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Umm the article is still wrong. I guess you could believe everything some random person, in this case an ex-con is telling you about the world, but I'm 18 and even I know it's waaay more complicated then anyone can deduce with a bunch of "cherry-picking" examples and poor knowledge of countries economics and cultural identities.

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You can't just use any examples to prove anything. Modern Japan is nothing like the Late Roman Empire. Japan has no immigration, there's never gonna be another group of people taking over so eventually when their population drops enough, they will beomc poor and start rasing it again.

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If every couple only has 1 child there is no way you can survive. Eventually you will have the last man and woman if your lucky because as soon as you run out of 1 gender its over. Sooner or later your going to have to raise the birth rate.

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I was raised Christian, but I have grown to hate the whole concept in the last year, and I have become Atheist.

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Why. I hate to say it but in that case your giving atheists a bad name. Most here seem to have the same values as the religious peeps here for the most part. But you seem very self centered and callous. Certainly its good to face reality but Im afraid you look at the darkside too much young grasshopper. The darkside is strong.

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Umm the article is still wrong. I guess you could believe everything some random person, in this case an ex-con is telling you about the world, but I'm 18 and even I know it's waaay more complicated then anyone can deduce with a bunch of "cherry-picking" examples and poor knowledge of countries economics and cultural identities.

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No its correct. You can deny were a dissappearing breed all you like. The facts speak differently.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

If every couple only has 1 child there is no way you can survive. Eventually you will have the last man and woman if your lucky because as soon as you run out of 1 gender its over. Sooner or later your going to have to raise the birth rate.

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Umm that makes no sense to me. Could you give me reason why they would NOT eventually raise their birth rate again?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Why. I hate to say it but in that case your giving atheists a bad name. Most here seem to have the same values as the religious peeps here for the most part.

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LMAO! Then they are not really atheists. Atheism means belief in nothing to do with religion. I'm nihilist to boot, don't expect to agree with me on anything in this manner, I probably won't even consider is valid.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

But you seem very self centered and callous.

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Precisely. My nihilistic nature doesn't allow me to think about others in a way that doesn't affect me. I am confortable with it though, more then Christianity to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Certainly its good to face reality but Im afraid you look at the darkside too much young grasshopper. The darkside is strong.

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I don't believe in Star Wars. ~D
I don't believe in evil either.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

No its correct. You can deny were a dissappearing breed all you like. The facts speak differently.

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I don't deny that we are dissapearing(the white race). I am making an argument as to why the article you posted is wrong in it's evidence, to support the viewpoint you (and I) want to project.

Just to clarify: I agree that the white race in crtain continents or parts of continents will eclipse because we have lower birth rates then other nationalities from poorer nations. But it is because they have a low standard of living that their birth rates are high. This is my opinion which I believe to be absolutely correct.

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Umm that makes no sense to me. Could you give me reason why they would NOT eventually raise their birth rate again?

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It was you who claimed that they wouldnt go extinct if they only allowed one child per couple not me.

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LMAO! Then they are not really atheists.

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Really. How do you know?

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theism means belief in nothing to do with religion.

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No it dosent.

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It means were dissappearing.
And what the hell has that got to do with radical Islam ?
What is it you are on about ? Are you trying to link birth rates to the war on terror now ?
so what is your topic about the preservation of the "white race" whatever you think that is , or radical Islam taking over the world .
Or is everything connected to fundamentalists in your mind .

As for your reply to Byzantines thing about the "sewage problem" in Germany....Because of immigration? .....rubbish , that is just another example of spurious points in the original article , it has nothing to do with immigration , it is (specific to Germany) connected to re-unification , and general rural decline as evident in any modern country . It is internal migration due to changes in work practices .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

As for your reply to Byzantines thing about the "sewage problem" in Germany....Because of immigration? .....rubbish , that is just another example of spurious points in the original article , it has nothing to do with immigration , it is (specific to Germany) connected to re-unification , and general rural decline as evident in any modern country . It is internal migration due to changes in work practices .

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No, I think Gawain's point was that immigrants don't flush the toilet. foreign heithens. ~;)

Nice work Gawain, you've convinced me. ~D

No, I think Gawain's point was that immigrants don't flush the toilet. foreign heithens.
Well since sewage systems don't really develop problems with under capacity , only over capacity , unless of course they are faulty in the first place , it just shows that the author is ....ummmm... full of excrement ~;)

I dont give two craps about the author or the validity of hes sewage claims. Is that the best arguement you can come up with?

I dont give two craps about the author or the validity of hes sewage claims.

Really ? Then why did you bother posting the authors article in the first place ?

And if you don't care about the validity of his claims then can you explain this.....

Ive been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.

So you have been warning about something , use an article to support your views , then say you don't give a damn about the author or the validity of his claims that you have used to support your views.

Howling at the moon indeed ~D ~D ~D

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Really ? Then why did you bother posting the authors article in the first place ?

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How many times do I have to explain that I post articles to start debates. I dont agree with everything everyone says in these postsa.

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And if you don't care about the validity of his claims then can you explain this.....

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I never said I dont care about the validity of his claims I said I dont care about his claims on the sewage matter.

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So you have been warning about something , use an article to support your views , then say you don't give a damn about the author or the validity of his claims that you have used to support your views.

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Read the above. I havent been warning that immigration is causing sewage problems in Europe but that the indigenous population is declining.

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Howling at the moon indeed

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Indeed and your proving my point for me. ~D

I never said I dont care about the validity of his claims I said I dont care about his claims on the sewage matter.
Then why don't you post your own views in a clear manner instead of posting dubious claims by an ex-con ?

the indigenous population is declining.
So what ? whats new ? populations change , birth rates fluctuate .