Why Hate America??

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

BigTex: it's obvious that Bush and his other Republican cronies want to get their hands on Iraqi oil. Keeps them rich and denies China Iraqi oil, all while getting more reserves in case Russia decides to bump up the price of oil with their huge reserves.

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There are neo-cons who would like to do this -- not the line their pockets thing, greed is a cross-party problem, but the screw China aspect. What will happen, however, is that China will buy the oil anyway by outbidding us and the drive up the world price (and probably laugh at us and class us as truly stupid because we DIDN'T do what you suggest in your post).

Are we really stupid (naive? altruistic?) enough to go to war to oust a dictator and then NOT take dominating control of our latest conquest? Yes.

After reading this thread I have came to the realisation that Americans are very much like the French. :inquisitive:

Not offended or honored, just curious; Why is that?

why should I care what everyone else in the world thinks about me as an American. I love my home, my family, and my country and everyone else can be damned. If they (people of other nations) respect me for who I am, I'll respect them for who they are. This nationalistic BS bothers me a lot.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

After reading this thread I have came to the realisation that Americans are very much like the French. :inquisitive:

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They do don't they.

Any ideas on what country that will start to play freedom fotball at some point during this century? :juggle2:

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

No should judge people on there leaders although it is clear here many people are. This thread is actually quite pointless and gets us nowhere it just brings up prejduces and stereotypes. So I say we burn it. http://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gifhttp://humferier.free.fr/sav/flamethrower.gif

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You're right, no one should judge the people for their leaders deeds, but one should judge the country and a majority of the people whom voted for the leader.

Lets leave all the prejudices, all the long gone past, all the "owes" and whatnots away and then tell me that america hasn't messed up the world more than any other country in the world in the last few years.

I'm from germany, as some might know, and we had a case when president Bush came over for a visit here, where a woman wrote some anti Bush slogan on a piece of paper and published it by leaning it on the window. She then went away, since she had vacation or some such. Shortly before Bush's visit (if I remember correctly) police broke into that womans home, kicked in the door I think, and removed the piece of paper.

I myself, am pretty sure that this was done on pressure of the U.S. somehow. And even if it was not, it's a sign of the americanization of Germany, which I find rather sad since I like Germany as German and not American.

Now I wouldn't call myself nationalistic, even though I really like Germany, for it's history that is. (Don't call me a nazi either, since I'm not refering to that timespan)

To come to the point, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, diplomatic insults (Old Europe anyone? Or "axis of evil"?), the practically inevitable aboutbringing (that right?) of a war with Iran and despite that, the re-election of Bush, somehow turns me off of being pro-american.

Some might say "of course we messed up more than any other country, hey, since we're the economically and militarily biggest country and we're totally on spotlight and such!", but that's wrong to say. You can't force a war without permission of the UN and then theoretically lose the war and let more people die every day and not say that it's fubar. It's more than just a major screw-up, since you made the "terrorist-issue" even worse with Iraq.

Oh, and if we could travel in time, like someone stated in this thread (don't remember if it was one of GC's funny posts once more), why don't we travel as far as before the colonization of America?

Another thing: I heard that the children in your schools have to sing the national anthem, every day before school begins...is that true? If so, don't tell me you're not overly nationalistic. Pah...

I'm not hating America, that's a far too strong word, neither do I hate or dislike all Americans. I just say, the U.S. as a country has ****** up in my eyes.

"Why hate America?"

You know, my younger brother has this catchy phrase he uses to communicate his negative opinion about people... "Do you want the polite answer, or the honest one ?"

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Originally Posted by Watchman

"Why hate America?"

You know, my younger brother has this catchy phrase he uses to communicate his negative opinion about people... "Do you want the polite answer, or the honest one ?"

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Ever been there? Very pleasant country. European bashers are just repeating the stuff american america-bashers are feeding them. Of course these guys have no agenda whatsoever, don't want to be in power no sir, they are such ideoligists :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Arcanum

Another thing: I heard that the children in your schools have to sing the national anthem, every day before school begins...is that true? If so, don't tell me you're not overly nationalistic. Pah...

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Yes, they do. And if they don't, they risk being singled out by peers. The same is true for baseball games and the national anthem.

This kind of nationalism seems normal for Americans. But it makes me cringe when I think of the other societies that have practiced this much nationalism and flag-waving. It puts us in bad company, indeed.

[added in an edit]When my ESL students arrive here, one of the first things they notice is all the national flags over over the buildings, people's homes, and their cars. They think it's pretty strange.

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Originally Posted by ghost908

Is that legal in the UAE? I'm just curious, that's all.

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Yes, now that you asked, is it illegal in the US?

I hate it because I can't find decent bacon here.~:mecry:

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Do you want the polite answer, or the honest one ?"

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Well come on, then. Let's have it.

Interesting question, Why hate America? or more to the pointe, the USA. There are actually several reasons but it think the most significant is that the US is and has been prosperous and anyone that is prosperous gains the animosity of those that are not. Combine that with the fact that when people are prosperous they tend to grow an inflated sense of personal worth and in the US’s case an inflated sense of national worth. Which is not surprising since IMO the US is the greatest country there is but most Americans could use an extra spoonful of modesty in their coffee every morning.

Another reason some hate us is that we do interfere in the business of others... a lot. but IMO not unjustly in most cases. From a governmental standpoint and more so from an industrial standpoint we have our fingers into nearly every country there is and it makes perfect sense that if we have a stake in something that we are able to use our influence to sway decisions in our favor, everyone does this, the US is no different. The issue i have with our interaction with other countries is that it is usually done without serious commitment or follow thru, and it is often done by corporations and they are hardly the best ambassadors for the US.:furious:

And still another reason some hate us is because they are ignorant. I don't mean that they are stupid but they just don't get what is going on and are easily swayed by their selfish leaders. An example: Bush visits India and thousands protest against him and the US with signs (that were probably bought with money from their US company owned callcenter jobs) that read hateful and violent things toward the US. These are the people that i really get frustrated with. Be mad at the US, even hate the US but at least have a good reason and don't wish harmful things on us in a protest then go back to work where you earn money from US companies. or accept aid from US charities, or support from US militaries (I am flipping them the bird right now).

The US government, corporations or even its people shouldent expect other countries to do what we say or be appreciative of us because we give them stuff, it doesent work within the US it is no surprise it doesent work abroad. The US usually offers $$, aid and military support because we are... nice. Far too nice IMO and if we want something in return for our generosity we should start asking for it ahead of time and stop expecting those we help to just “like” us, they never will.

That said, i think the Europeans have been getting poked at a little harder than they should in this thread (not that they cant handle it). It has been my experience that Americans are casually thought of as being loud and somewhat uncultured but there is little “hate” towards us from most (all i know) Europeans. Most i have encountered have had a blast here in the states and vice versa. I think the actual “hate” that the US receives is from the uneducated 2nd and 3rd world countries that have rulers that find it more popular for them to promote the hate of the US. You know the ones we are constantly giving support to and never receiving any real thanks from (unless i have been misreading those protesters signs:laugh2:).

I could go on but my typically short American attention span has me thinking of other things already.:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Tachikaze

Yes, they do. And if they don't, they risk being singled out by peers.

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That isnt true at all. At my last school, it was optional and nobody cared one way or another if you sang it. We don't even sing it at my current high school. Hell, half the teachers take down the American flags in their rooms.

When it comes to international relations the most powerful are always resented by the weaker. It may be simple jealousy but more likely it is a sense of being controlled. A fear of losing independence, of being puppets or vassals either politically or culturally to a force over which you have no influence, a force which can be clumsy and entirely self-serving. At the moment this is the USA. Previously it was the British Empire.

That is an excellent post, Yesdachi.

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Originally Posted by yesdachi

There are actually several reasons but it think the most significant is that the US is and has been prosperous and anyone that is prosperous gains the animosity of those that are not.

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This is true, but only to a certain extent.

America's riches are a source of envy to many. But, Switzerland, Luxemburg, Norway are even richer, and nobody ever bitches about them.

Secondly, many people from rich countries dislike 'America', which can not be ascribed to envy. Some European and Asian countries surpass America in income. Other's like Japan, France, Germany, the UK are only close behind, I don't think their animosity is explained by any envy.
2nd and 3rd world animosity perhaps is.

I think it is America's power and might that is the envy of the world.

Slightly related, America's unbridled capitalism is a source of irritation for many socialist Europeans.

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Combine that with the fact that when people are prosperous they tend to grow an inflated sense of personal worth and in the US’s case an inflated sense of national worth.

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~:confused:

What is this concept of 'inflated sense of national worth' you're talking about? It's so alien to my culture that I couldn't possibly comment on it.

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And still another reason some hate us is because they are ignorant.

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Aye, 'tis so.

On the one hand, there's America, the real America, however pluralistic and ambigious it may be. On the other, there are dozens of concepts of America abroad, most of which are either a parody of America; lack any base in reality whatsoever; or are a mere projection of non-Americans fears on America.
It's America the Great Satan; America, the capitalist pig's paradise; America, the apartheid state where they butcher blacks by the thousands; America, where everybody is obese, ignorant, loud, obnoxious, a-cultured and of a short-attention span.

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It has been my experience that Americans are casually thought of as being loud and somewhat uncultured but there is little “hate” towards us from most (all i know) Europeans.

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'Hate' would be too strong. But don't be too naive either - there is a real element of animosity towards America in Europe.
And don't be naive about the English either, just like the continent, it's full of pricks who hate the yanks.

Having said that, the good news is that with few exceptions* all Europeans I know that have visited the US or have any personal contact with Americans tend to have nothing less than the highest esteem of Americans.

*Those exceptions being leftist academics, whose anti-Americanism is at least based on a dissaproval of American politics, not on any irrational dislike.

As with most things, their are probably nearly as many reasons as there are people who dislike/hate America.

Some mislike the USA because we are the sole superpower. For some, any underdog is better than the top dog.

Some mislike the USA because of our influences/infringements on their culture. McDonalds seeks a profit wherever they are, but are they an export of culture in addition to being a business? Does this constitute a cultural "assault" as well as a culinary one?

Some mislike the USA because of its sanctimony. Few nation-states bother to characterize their actions as anything but a pursuit of national interests. The USA consistently publicizes its actions as being for the greater good of all (even where those actions are perceived by most to be in pursuit of US interests alone). This is viewed as hypocrisy.

Some mislike the USA because the believe it IS special, and that it should, therefore, strive to be better -- but that it falls woefully short of its potential.
Tachi is one of these, I believe, he does not hate the USA so much as he hates it's having fallen short of what he conceives to be its potential.

Some mislike the USA because it is more conservative than any of the other "Western" nations, and they are offended because it is so socially backwards as a result.

Some mislike us because they view us a bunch of overgrown children with little experience of history and too much willingness to employ our power in pursuit of ill-thought or idealistic goals. For them, American policy is usually nothing but a series of tantrums to be ignored.


I love the USA, and though I cannot claim it to be flawless, believe that we have added significantly more that is positive to human history than we have added to the negative column. Feel free to disagree and to tell me so -- freedom of speech being one of our cultural hallmarks.

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Originally Posted by faisal

Yes, now that you asked, is it illegal in the US?

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Aye, an incoherent drug policy is one reason to dislike the states. Pot is a schedule I drug which means that it: has no legitimate medical use; is dangerous to use even with medical supervision; and has a high possibility for abuse. It falls under none of those conditions, let alone all of them. And so, one of the most harmless drugs cannot even be used to help someone go to sleep.:dizzy2: Then you have cocaine as schedule II, with the implication that it can be safely used with medical supervision, whereas marijuana most certainly cannot be.:help:

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

That is an excellent post, Yesdachi.

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Thanks :bow:

BTW - when i used the term prosperous i did not just mean money but also as you indicated power and might as well.

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What is this concept of 'inflated sense of national worth' you're talking about? It's so alien to my culture that I couldn't possibly comment on it.

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By “inflated sense of national worth” i mean an excissive amount of nationalism or many people having so much pride in the US that they cant see that other countries are doing just fine although they are not doing things the same as we are, or in other words... we tend to thinnk a little much of ourselves ~D.

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Originally Posted by yesdachi

By “inflated sense of national worth” i mean an excissive amount of nationalism or many people having so much pride in the US that they cant see that other countries are doing just fine although they are not doing things the same as we are, or in other words... we tend to thinnk a little much of ourselves ~D.

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Louis was prolly using a grain or two of sarcasm there.

Anyway, thanks Yesdachi, Louis and Seamus for butchering a perfectly fine flamefest and turning it into refreshingly insightful discourse. The nerve!

I cannot speak for others ... but I can speak from my own experiences. I have been to the US, I have friends there, people I know and respect.

I do not really hate the United States of America, as much as I fear where they might go. The US alone have enough firepower to send all of Earth back into the stone age, and for that I fear them.

It is nationalism ... the exceptional pride in a nation's and people's achievemnt. Since the US is more of an amalgam of various groups, it built upon the state, not upon the nation as an ethnical group. I suppose one of the reasons the Europeans dislike the Americans is that, the Americans take pride in their cultural and historical achievments, putting them high, Europeans (including me for that matter) tend to dismiss such things as irrelevant. I was born in a town founded as Hellenic colony that became a Roman town, and that continued all the way to the modern age ... I live in a city, where there are buildings over two thousand years old, which, to Americans (and I speak from experience) is an unimaginable amount of time.

I have been in Washington DC and seen and smiled at a house the US goverment protects as a national monument, it is some 200 years old. I go to college in a building built in 1774.

But I have gotten sidetracked ... back to nationalism.

I come from a small country that gained it's independence in war 15 years ago. I was but a kid then, but now, looking back at the things I have seen ... I cannot help but notice the inflated pride in a nation's achievement ... the nationalism that excluded others. It is only now waning, exposed to pressure from the European community, the open borders and free travel, the tourism ... but it is gone only among the top 9% of the population, it still runs strong in those less educated.

That is what I fear. That is the path I fear that the US will take. That is a path that is suitable only for war ... or for starting one. There is no middle ground, there is 'us' and 'them' ... 'we' are better, 'they' are inferior ... it is 'our' duty to bring them culture. Already, the signs are there ... the quest to spread democracy, by force if need be. Already people judge their cultural values, their way of life to be 'better' ... it may very well be, I agree that democracy is the best form of goverment so far, but that is a judgement. Some people might be happy with their goverment. An autocratic regime may not be a bad thing in all cases, it may bring order and development to a nation in strife.

I do not hate the US, I fear it. The following quote will best explain my fear.

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Originally Posted by Albert Einstein

If World War Three is fought with atomic and nuclear weaponry, the fourth will be fought with sticks and stones.

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Originally Posted by Keba

I do not hate the US, I fear it.

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You should be more afraid of a world without the US. Or even a US with its hands tied more than they are already. No other nation has done more for the protection of freedom and protecting those who cannot protect themselves than any other in recent history (or maybe ever). Sure we promote democracy and fight hard for those who desire it but the US also leaves dictatorships and all other sorts of governments alone as long as they do not interfere with our interests or commit horrible crimes against innocents. The US is not perfect and it is definitely full of internal strife over our future but without the US or some other major power for good the world would be overrun by the selfish and uncaring. The countries you should be concerned about are the ones with power but are unwilling to use it even thou atrocities are going on all around them.:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Louis was prolly using a grain or two of sarcasm there.

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I figured but its better to be safe than misunderstood!?

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Originally Posted by faisal

Yes, now that you asked, is it illegal in the US?

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Yup, 100% illegal.

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Originally Posted by ghost908

Yup, 100% illegal.

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somebodt sounds pleased :mellow::laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Some mislike the USA because the believe it IS special, and that it should, therefore, strive to be better -- but that it falls woefully short of its potential. Tachi is one of these, I believe, he does not hate the USA so much as he hates it's having fallen short of what he conceives to be its potential.

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You are right.:bow:

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Originally Posted by ghost908

That isnt true at all. At my last school, it was optional and nobody cared one way or another if you sang it. We don't even sing it at my current high school. Hell, half the teachers take down the American flags in their rooms.

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Don't bother with Tachi, he makes up crap like that all the time just to be budy, budy or comrade, comrade with all the American hating lefties on this site. Unfortunately he tries with every fiber in his being to convince those who have no idea what the US is like that its the worst place to live this side of the Sudan.

Yeah, that Pledge of Allegiance stuff is non-sense. Maybe it was that way way back when, but the only pledge we sang had a line about Micheal Jackson where we described him with an insult that rhymed with the word 'flag.' Yeah, I know it sounds stupid now, but that was sophisticated comedy in kindergarten.

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

somebodt sounds pleased :mellow::laugh4:

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Who? Me? Pleased?

No way...:saint:

Gah. In my school the pressure is almost to not say the Pledge. Very few people say it at all - either they don't care or they think they're making a statement. Or tired. School starts too early...