Interficio quod Scrupulosa [Concluded]

For Jupiter's sake I've explained this too many times! :wall:

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Originally Posted by Reenkaficsio

My original post was an evaluation of the situation as Kommodus’ post was suspicious or at least odd, no?

“If you do (kill me), you can be sure that my full powers of deduction will be leveled against you. I'll take out all the stops, and you will certainly not escape. If, on the other hand, you allow me to live for a reasonable amount of time (say, four or five rounds), I may have mercy on you.”

“If you do (lynch me), you'll get no help from me. None. I'll figure out who the rebels are anyway, but I won't say a word, except to laugh at your bumbling attempts when you lynch innocent people. I'll understand if you find me suspicious later in the game and choose to lynch me (after say, four or five rounds). But show a little respect for my intelligence and don't off me with your usual knee-jerk reaction to everyone that tries to be helpful.”

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Let's also look at the possibilities:

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Originally Posted by Reenkaficsio

Now, Kommodus was not killed last round. This can either mean:

1) Kommodus is a rebel, and cannot be killed by rebels.
2) Kommodus is a senator and intimidated the rebels into leaving him alive.
3) Kommodus is a senator and the rebels just didn’t care enough/at all about his post.

Now, if it is either 2 or 3, and Kommodus remains alive for several rounds (he’s already passed his biggest hurdle in round one), then he will be no help to us anyway, as stated by himself personally. He may even be grateful to the rebels and mislead us.

All of this is also discounting the fact that Kommodus may very well be a rebel, and certainly is one of the top suspects if not the main one.

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It is clear that Kommodus is our best lynch!

And another thing, why hasn't anyone responded to this post?

I mean venusdammit! I've addressed all the charges against me, clarified my posts, and called out people who vote for me for not good reason.

Sir Moody, please tell me when voting ends. I'll die if I must, but seriously, I would have been much rather lynched when I deserved it then now! :stare:

Hm...i am thinking in making a good mistake, but

Unvote:Reenk
Vote:Abstain

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

It is clear that Kommodus is our best lynch!

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He's not an option right now.

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And another thing, why hasn't anyone responded to this post?

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I changed my vote back to abstain before you made it.

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I mean venusdammit! I've addressed all the charges against me, clarified my posts, and called out people who vote for me for not good reason.

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See, there's a world of difference between saying I'm not certain and saying there's no good reason. And if you were looking at this objectively, you would see that. Maybe 'lynch Kommodus or else he's a rebel' wasn't the hard and fast rule of your posts, but it is certainly a reasonable take. Again, you're acting out of character. Surely you know you look suspicious. Rather than addressing it (which you did), and leaving it be (which you're not), you're continuing to be provocative and suggesting that anybody that doesn't agree with you 100% isn't employing sound reason. You're making me want to change my vote back. But one thing I've learned in these games is that I've got to learn to quit anger-voting and try to remain as logical as possible. So for now, unless you start acting even more bizarre, I'm leaving the status quo.

I know one thing. Half the Senate not even bothering to abstain doesn't make me like our odds right now... :no:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

I know one thing. Half the Senate not even bothering to abstain doesn't make me like our odds right now... :no:

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What's the WoG rule for this game? I suspect we'll see the grim reaper doing the rebel's work for them before long. :no:

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

What's the WoG rule for this game? I suspect we'll see the grim reaper doing the rebel's work for them before long. :no:

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

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WoG rule?

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Originally Posted by Caius Flaminius

WoG rule?

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WoG = Wrath of God. Bascially, participate or perish. If people don't contribute to the discussion and/or the voting, at a certain point Sir Moody will kill them off automatically, for not participating.

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Originally Posted by Caius Flaminius

WoG rule?

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Wrath of God- mod elimination of inactive participants.

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I think if it is activated, many members will lose

I cannot die for I AM INVINCIBLE!!!!!!

Reenk... I can't help but think that this whole thing could've been avoided if it hadn't been for a tragic misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

1) Kommodus is a rebel, and cannot be killed by rebels.
2) Kommodus is a senator and intimidated the rebels into leaving him alive.
3) Kommodus is a senator and the rebels just didn’t care enough/at all about his post.

Now, if it is either 2 or 3, and Kommodus remains alive for several rounds (he’s already passed his biggest hurdle in round one), then he will be no help to us anyway, as stated by himself personally. He may even be grateful to the rebels and mislead us.

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Now I'm certain it is either 2 or 3 (and very possibly 3 as there is no real reason to think that the rebels were affected by my post). They very well may not have planned to kill me anyway.

However, your implication that I will be no help to the senate is false, for a number of reasons. I wonder if you misunderstood what I said.

I never said I wouldn't help. Originally I simply said "I may have mercy on you (if you don't kill me)." Later I clarified this to mean I would withhold the use of some of my newest and most dangerous tools - but only for a time. Again and again I've explained this; but I wonder if you read my posts?

My originally speech was, as I've said before, an experiment. I thought there were several possible good results that could come of it.

1. The rebels might have been goaded into killing me, proving my innocence.

2. I might've drawn some rebels out into the open, as they would surely be very pleased to see me lynched and withdraw from the game.

3. I might actually survive late into the game, giving myself a chance to cast an accurate vote against the rebels.

An unwanted side effect that did occur, however, was that now everyone's focused on the question of my guilt or innocence, rather than pursuing other avenues. I guess I should've predicted that. If the trend continues, it will do more harm than good to the senate.

Reenk (and Sasaki), I knew that everything I was saying was very suspicious. Do either of you really think I'm that dumb? Regardless, I apologize for the trouble and misunderstandings. Not every experiment is a success...

Meh. At least I gave us all something to talk about during round one. Hopefully some clues have emerged that will be useful later on.

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:guitarist:

Reenk the voting will close at some point after 12 gmt - it depends on when my Lunch break is at work... busy day tomorrow we have a Manager coming down to inspect the monkeys doing the programming (that would be me) so could be anytime between 12pm and 3pm GMT

[QUOTE=Kommodus]
Reenk (and Sasaki), I knew that everything I was saying was very suspicious. Do either of you really think I'm that dumb?[quote]

It's entirely possible.

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Regardless, I apologize for the trouble and misunderstandings. Not every experiment is a success...

Meh. At least I gave us all something to talk about during round one. Hopefully some clues have emerged that will be useful later on.

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The fact that what was presented as a serious statement is now merely an "experiment" suggests that you didn't realize people would think it was suspicious. You're sound surprised, therefore this reaction was not expected so it wouldn't have been "dumb" as mafia.

You sound guilty.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

See, there's a world of difference between saying I'm not certain and saying there's no good reason. And if you were looking at this objectively, you would see that. Maybe 'lynch Kommodus or else he's a rebel' wasn't the hard and fast rule of your posts, but it is certainly a reasonable take. Again, you're acting out of character. Surely you know you look suspicious. Rather than addressing it (which you did), and leaving it be (which you're not), you're continuing to be provocative and suggesting that anybody that doesn't agree with you 100% isn't employing sound reason. You're making me want to change my vote back. But one thing I've learned in these games is that I've got to learn to quit anger-voting and try to remain as logical as possible. So for now, unless you start acting even more bizarre, I'm leaving the status quo.

I know one thing. Half the Senate not even bothering to abstain doesn't make me like our odds right now... :no:

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Don! I am just speechless now! :wall:

I don't know how you could have misinterpreted all my posts like that. You are jumping to very wrong conclusions, and I feel obliged as well as frustrated to respond like this:

On my reasons for lynching Kommodus: :stupido:

I based my position on two things:

1) Kommodus’ odd post.
2) His helpfulness to us.

1 is self explanatory isn’t it? Everyone raised an eyebrow at the post.

2 is based on theoretical outcomes.

There are 4 possibilities with regard to Kommodus’ life:

1) Senators try to kill him and the Rebels leave him.
2) Rebels kill him and the Senators leave him.
3) Senators try to kill him and the Rebels kill him.
4) Senators leave him and the Rebels leave him.

For 1, he definitely will not help us.
For 2 he may help us.
For 3, it will depend on who pisses him off more.
For 4 he will "show mercy" to the rebels (thus not helping us).

Note that Kommodus has survived one round.

My pushing for Kommodus’ execution is a plausible case. I freely admit it can be wrong, but based on what Kommodus said, he was the best lynch for us.

Never did I say that Kommodus was guilty or speak in any absolutes. You are reading this into my posts for whatever reason.

On my insults: :stupido:

For God’s sake Don, I don’t know how you took my posts to be anything but me playing in character and joking around. I clearly am acting like a pompous Roman senator, putting quite a bit of contextual clues in my post.

Your Strike For The South comment was much less obvious of a joke than mine and yet everyone thought it was a joke.

On my acting out of character: :stupido:

First, I think that I have made it clear that I changed character many times. Here is my earlier response to that:

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Originally Posted by Reenkaficsio

I don't know why people make such a big deal about me changing character. I do it so frequently in these games that it should be surprising when I do not change character, Early on, I started as a bad villager, adding people to the List. Then I had a change of heart and made a Fan Club. Then I started just lurking for a bit, and then abstaining, courteously when hosts got mad at lurkers. Then I stopped abstaining cause people got mad at me for abstaining and just voted for people, giving my reasons and explaining a lot, becoming incredibly more active than in any other game. Now I'm becoming a prick again like I started, but I'm trying to save the senate with my attitude. You track the personality changes; they happen when I'm Mafia and when I'm not.

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You say: “In the last 2 games, you started acting very pro-actively. Surprise, surprise, you were mafia in both games. Now here you are doing it again.... what am I supposed to think?”

I reply: Don, in the last two games, I have started off not trying to draw any attention to myself, and being the opposite of what you claim. In Mafia V I was upset that so much attention was drawn to me so early on, and I disappeared for the next three rounds. In Rise of the Mob I stayed quiet until Sigurd Fafnesbane called me out. You are mistaken.

And finally, this:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

...you're continuing to be provocative and suggesting that anybody that doesn't agree with you 100% isn't employing sound reason...

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First, I don’t know why you take my acting like a Roman senator as provocative. Sure, Reenkaficsio is a outspoken blowhard, but I’m just playing along with the theme. The content of my post is the important part, and the content is what has been ignored. Seriously people, look at my arguments, that I have stripped of the Roman theme.

Second, I’m not suggesting anything of the sort.

@ Sir Moody: :bow:

@ Kommodus: All right, thanks for the clarification Kommodus. My case was essentially based on the fact that you sounded very callous and selfish in your post. I saw no reason to let you live as a townie if you would not help us. Now that that part of my case is gone, it rests on your odd posts, which while relevant and suspicious, still cause me to rescind my ultimatum.

Gah... everyone change their vote to No Lynch.

If we can't do that, then just abstain.

Unvote: Reenkius
Vote: No Lynch/Abstain

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Gah... everyone change their vote to No Lynch.

If we can't do that, then just abstain.

Unvote: Reenkius
Vote: No Lynch/Abstain

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Then I won't get to execute anyone. :no:

Been busy, catching up.

Vote: No Lynch

Count of Votes please?

Are we allowed to vote no lynch?

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Then I won't get to execute anyone

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Still 1 vote for Reenk.And 2 for Ituralde.

3 votes for Reenk (Kommodus, Ituralde, and Aggony) 2 for Ituralde (Sasaki and Xiahou)
Same game plan on my part sorry Ituralde...
Vote: Ituralde

We haven't heard at all from Destroyer of Hope, Masy, Peasant Phil, and Dutch_guy. I'm for gridlock until they show their faces. We have not heard much from Kage, Craterus, and Prole. Still the first round technically so not horrible. My 2 cents

Okay, Reenk. My apologies for taking offense where none was intended. I actually didn't get that you were role-playing, as you had a similar rant about how intellectually challenged your detractors were at the end of New Mafia, but you do have a point. I am convinced and will henceforth set about trying to role-play a little myself (I'm sure we could use a wine-addled old veteran that's better equipped to the saddle than the senate floor).

Seriously, I'm actually not really all that suspicious of anybody who's been posting so far anymore. What we've lacked in quantity of contributors we've made up for in quality of contributors. We've had some pretty decent discussions for the first round, when, let's face it, we're all standing around shrugging saying "I dunno, did YOU do it?" :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

...as you had a similar rant about how intellectually challenged your detractors were at the end of New Mafia...

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Just a little more clarification, that "partial intelligence" comment meant that Sigurd only had part of the story of my statement of Csar, nothing insulting his intelligence either.

Anyway, I guess I could break the tie but I would rather every just abstain and not lynch anyone this round. :wink:

As I stated in my last post, I don't think we should penalize Reenk for trying to play in character. If he was mafia wouldn't it make more seance to keep to the background and not draw any suspicions? Ituralde's accusing Kommodous doesnt seem a very good reason either. The rebels know the risk and wouldn't be likely to except the bait. Beside his strategy, which kind of reminds me of Saskii's, has worked well for the town in the past. In conclusion I agree with General H. and Vote: No Lynch

Also @ JimBob why are you always voting for a tie? It would be much better for the town to get two more kills and thus more evidence to find the mafia?

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Also @ JimBob why are you always voting for a tie? It would be much better for the town to get two more kills and thus more evidence to find the mafia?

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Its an idea I had based on something someone said in New Mafia. Basically the first round is a crap shoot, so I say extend it and suck three rounds out of it. Someone might slip, you get more people talking and more ideas floated, more bad ideas shot down before the mafia gets to use them to confuse the town. More information equals more chance of a town win. And the mafia doesn't off someone. That and I wanted to stretch it out and bring some of the lurkers in, I don't like people who don't post(see New Mafia for my main reason). My idea has had some good and bad, we'll have to wait and see.

Hmm, so we have a tie now ? I'm still unsure what to make of Reenks behaviour, and Iturlade is a big unknown.

Tough choices, tough choices...

sorry all No-lynch is not an option - ill allow it in normal votes but in this tie you must vote or abstain - im not sure what i will do in another draw i mite just lynch both so we can keep going - keep that in mind

:sigh:

It pains me, but I just can't keep abstaining, it's against my principles.

Vote:Reenk

Sorry man, if you are just role playing then I'll feel pretty bad about this, but you are the more suspicious of the two :shame:

My fellow senators,

The rebels in our midst have won their first battle. They have manipulated us to kill somebody most of us are reluctant to do. Both Ituralde as Reenk Roink are more the victim of their own voting than of evidence provided against them.
Alas, we still have to chose. As we can't let ourselves be lead by suspicions we have to let ourselves be lead by another criterium. Let usefulness be that criterium in order to minimize the loss we have already led.

vote: Ituralde