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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by Maksimus
Anyway's - I think you saw my point... :whip:
Please, don't whip me :laugh4:
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And, how many ortodox population there is in Russia - as far as I know from the The Russian Ortodox Church sources it is over or about 80% (I would say more) and most of population is in European part of Russia (90%) :shrug:
good question would be: what is to be an average ortodox in Russia? I don't think there are many true christians here. I suppose absolute majority are christened agnostics (just like me) and are going to christen their children in future. But this stuff is more due to the honouring the tradition than due to true faith.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by MiniMe
... all I'm saying is that patriotism is sometimes linked with chauvinism and sometimes is not... on topic: why is it that nobody of Alexandros admirers never mentions that Megas Alexandros success was direct consequence of his father policy, I wonder.
-patriotism = linked with valiantly defending one's country in times of need and thus linked with war/defense. chauvinism = having the same feelings like patriotism but in peace time. ppl tend to get the patriotic reflex in war to create strong ties between them. chauvinism is doing the same with the absence of war. its stupid (patriotism can still be helpful in times of need) since it exagerrates - in times of peace - the superiority of the idiot boasting it routing (for example republican rednecks) and are bend on seeking conflict rather than avoiding it.
nationalism is something totally different, though patriotism and chauvinism are derrived from it. but their not the same.
- it's true alexander's conquest would have been impossible without the military philip created. but politically he had to start from scratch, first of all securing his power over greece again (which defected from the alliance when philip was murdered). so politically he had to basically start from scratch and without the impressive army of philip he wouldn't be the famous conqueror we now know.
BUT
do remind this: if their had been anyone as philip's successor, the world would have been a different place. only alexander conquered the world cause that was his dream, his goal. philip wouldn't have conquered the persian empire. in fact nobody would have. what did greeks have to look for on the banks of the indus??? or on the oxus -river??? nothing. but alexander did. he was looking for the end of the world... which in my opinion is a pretty crazy idea, typical for his grotesque personality. so the statement that philip was vital for alexander's conquest is only viable if your referring to the set of tools he left his son, basically being the army. only alexander though, was capable of putting it to such use as he did... truly a magnificent person... oopps, am i admiring alexander again :laugh4:
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by MiniMe
...on topic: why is it that nobody of Alexandros admirers never mentions that Megas Alexandros success was direct consequence of his father policy, I wonder...
Is there a tendency to magnify the genius at the expense of all around him? makes the story easier to tell. "...and then Big Al blew a puff of air in Darius Pussypants face, and knocked him halfway across Asia...".
There's a nice short history of Macedonia (by Malcolm Errington IIRC) that puts Alexander's acheivements into context. He praises Phillips solid sensible goundwork, and portrays Alexander as an insane risk taker.
One very good point was the resources taken from Macedonia to conquer the east left the homeland vulnerable for a generation. In fact Macedonia as a polity was diminished after the rise of the Diadochi, losing much of Thrace, scrabbling for control of Hellas, and barely able to fend off the Keltoi and other invaders. It was not until the 2nd Punic war that Macedonia was again punching anywhere near the class Phillip raised them too.
Errington's lovely alternate history excursis "what if Phillip had survived to old age and passed his throne peacefully to a sane heir" (which rarely happened in Macedonia of course) concludes that Macedonia could have consolidated a Hellenized south balkan state far more potent than the dimished kingdom the Romans beat. I reckon this is a crock: there were endless examples of polities rising for a generation or two under competent leadership, only to slump back into mediocrity. Armenia, Lydia, Pontus, Athens and Sparta spring to mind : regional powers with stable administrations are rare: maybe Syracuse, Rome and Carthage? Even Rome's career path seems to have been expand or die.
I reckon Phillip made the war machine. The tradition of decisive cav he inherited, but he assembled the experienced generals, adapted the effective pike, integrated the light troops and developed multiple-mission capable elites.
Of course Alexander added a note of personal courage and some battlefield genius, and ran an extraordinary campaign with it. However Alexander's acheivements weren't built to last as long as his fame.
True his conquests held together for perhaps a generation (at least on paper) and then significant chunks survived longer, but that was more a function of pre-existing political templates (ie the persian Satrapies), a suitable cultural medium (Attic Greek) and the effectiveness of the macedonian military system (based on Phillips model, adapted by the Diadochi as much as Alexander himself). Alexander modelled the kind of cultural synthesis the Seleukids used but the Ptolemy's (Kleopatra aside) were Hellenis supremicists in the extreme, and they outlasted all other principal diadochi.
Alexander was the lightning bolt, but the fire was Greek and the kindling was gathered by Phillip.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Cyclops...what a 'mate' you must be,calling your 'friends' FYROMIANS and mocking them...youd get your ass beat if you tried that around myself and my mates...including my GREEK mates who would stomp your ass.
You all write that we(MACEDONIANS) have no connection to that land or people but our genetics would say otherwise.....even if i accept the stance of Greeks...my people have been living on that land for at least 1400 years...the majority of the Greeks who live in Macedonia today are decendants of PONTIAN SETTLERS...GRCI,MOZE DA GI LAZETE OVIJA ANGLEZI AMA NEMOZETE DA NE LAZETE NAS.
GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES.
GREECE IS THE ONLY NATION IN EUROPE THAT CLAIMS TO BE ETHNICALLY PURE....CHECK THE CIA FACTBOOK....what a joke....you can all get on your knees and worship the myth that is Hellas....not us though.
PS:To those of you who created EB,ive gotten plenty of hours of enjoyment from it and for that id like to thank you.I apologize for the hostile tone in my post,but i am sick and tired of reading this bullshit from arm chair historians.
I wont be posting again so you can all go on and call me a FYROMIAN or a PAN SLAVIST...which is pretty fucked since it was SLAVS(Serbs and Bulgars) who tried to supress(along with the Greeks) a Macedonian identity....you can call myself and the Macedonian people those names on a forum,but i know for a fact that in person,the nervous smiles that cross your lips will not allow your tongue to utter any word but MACEDONIAN...MATER VI EBEM
LATER.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/gr.html
http://www.westminster.ac.uk/mad/pdf...tzis_et_al.pdf
https://i198.photobucket.com/albums/...ments-1926.jpg
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by Astibus
You all write that we(MACEDONIANS) have no connection to that land or people but our genetics would say otherwise.....even if i accept the stance of Greeks...my people have been living on that land for at least 1400 years...
prove it mate...
read me off your line; from lad, to dad, to grand-dad and beyond?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Fine,i said i wouldnt post but since you need proof.....
However, some southern Slavic populations such as Serbians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, and Bosnians are clearly separated from the tight DNA cluster of the rest of Slavic populations. According to the authors this phenomenon is explained by "...contribution to the Y chromosomes of peoples who settled in the Balkan region before the Slavic expansion to the genetic heritage of Southern Slavs..."[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples
AND THIS IS FROM WIKIPEDIA....not exactly a source of Macedonian propaganda.....IS THAT ENOUGH PROOF FOR YOU.....go on living in your fantasy....now you prove to me that GREECE IS ETHNICALLY HOMOGENOUS.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by Astibus
Fine,i need proof.....
ETHNICALLY HOMOGENOUS.
I think you misunderstand.
I meant you personally...
not the ETHNICA HOMOGENOUM?
A forest is only as full as the sum of its trees?
And...
besides, how do we know you're not some girl from ipanema???
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Me,personally?That is how i self identify and for you that should be good enough....comprende?I dont question Greeks when they tell me thats what they are although many of them are descended from Arvanites,Vlachs,Slavs,Turks etc....self determination is a basic right that all should respect.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by Astibus
Me,personally?That is how i self identify and for you that should be good enough....comprende?
I must say...
sounds good to me, but thats a little light on the proof side?
I am, what I am...
cause I say I am!!!
I think we're getting the picture?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
How can i give you proof?I dont have family records stretching back 200 years let alone 1500.I know where i come from,i know where my families allegiances were,i know for what and why my ancestors risked their lives.For myself...that is all the proof i need.....maybe you need a piece of paper to tell you what you are....i dont need that.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by Astibus
How can i give you proof?I dont have family records stretching back 200 years let alone 1500.I know where i come from,i know where my families allegiances were,i know for what and why my ancestors risked their lives.For myself...that is all the proof i need.
Not even two hundred years?
Then by way of your families line, how do you know what you say to be true? How do you and your own family fit into the bigger historical picture?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by cmacq
Not even two hundred years?
Then by way of your families line, how do you know what you say to be true?
We didnt just appear out of thin air pal...if my ancestors felt like they were Bulgars,Serbs or Greeks they wouldve fought for them,NOT FOR MACEDONIA....like i said,that is all the proof i need.
By the way....who are you that i have to prove myself to you?
"If Greece exists today as a homogeneous ethnos, she owes this to [the Asia Minor Catastrophe]. If the hundreds of thousands of refugees had not come to Greece, Greek Macedonia would not exist today. The refugees created the national homogeneity of our country. (Antonios Kandiotis, Metrpolite of Florina, page 141, Anastasia Karakasidou, Fields of Wheat, Hills of Blood).
Im done....ajde prijatno:)
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Not to me. I tried only to help you authenticate your assertions, yet you only prove you are disinclined to do so.
Still,
in the end...
an interesting,
though not an original,
method of debate.
In fact, I think I hear the beep, beep, beep of a garbage truck backing up behind me?
Please be gentle?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by Astibus
Cyclops...what a 'mate' you must be,calling your 'friends' FYROMIANS and mocking them......
Yeah, its that Australian humour. :2thumbsup:
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Originally Posted by Astibus
youd get your ass beat if you tried that around myself and my mates...including my GREEK mates who would stomp your ass...
[checks astibus' coffee for caffeine content]
Now I'm certain you mean "in a game of EB" becuase you wouldn't be so stupid and crass to threaten someone you don't even know on a computer games thread.
If by "my GREEK mates" you mean your hoplites and theurophoroi, then maybe yes. Or maybe I'd flank you with my Irish hammers.:smash:
Either way, lighten up.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
gas on fire...
nice touch.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Cyclops
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Yeah, its that Australian humour.
I didnt know insulting people was considered humour.....with friends like you...who needs enemies.
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Now I'm certain you mean "in a game of EB" becuase you wouldn't be so stupid and crass to threaten someone you don't even know on a computer games thread.
Im not threatening you,im telling you what would happen.
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If by "my GREEK mates" you mean your hoplites and theurophoroi, then maybe yes. Or maybe I'd flank you with my Irish hammers.
Your Irish hammers will have to get passed my Agrianes first:)
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Either way, lighten up.
Sorry man,i know this whole argument may seem ridiculous to outsiders but when the very existence of your people and nation are called into question and or denied tell me how you will react.
cmacq
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Not to me. I tried only to help you authenticate your assertions, yet you only prove you are disinclined to do so.
Still,
in the end...
an interesting,
though not an original,
method of debate.
In fact, I think I hear the beep, beep, beep of a garbage truck backing up behind me?
Please be gentle?
You think everything ive written is garbarge?Fine,but at least be consistent and tell that to every person in the Balkans who claim to be one thing or another.
Hellene
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Sorry to tell you this but every night you go to bed tell yourself: "Im a Bulgarian Kiptchak..."
You are a bulgarian from the river Volga its too sad that Basil II's work was incomplete too sad indeed...
Since youre into tellling others what they are,maybe ill take a stab at it and tell you what you are?Nah,im not that arrogant.
https://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?...3419482jg5.jpg
https://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?...2087326sj8.jpg
https://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?...4123485ci7.jpg
https://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?...8396164xx9.jpg
https://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?...1626942wn5.jpg
https://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?...3448695ms4.jpg
https://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?...1604638mr8.jpg
https://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?...0149612fy4.jpg
https://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10dj7.jpg
https://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11by5.jpg
https://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12ad5.jpg
https://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13bt2.jpg
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by hellenes
Sorry to tell you this but every night you go to bed tell yourself: "Im a Bulgarian Kiptchak..."
You are a bulgarian from the river Volga its too sad that Basil II's work was incomplete too sad indeed...
That is not very nice! Nobody here praised the Pontic Greek Genocide! You should mind your manners!
And he did not say that you are an ortodox Turk (which is an insult I wont claim!) and that todays Greece has very little or almost no ethnic relation to the 'Times of Athens' for example (as you did for his country) !
He just expressed his feelings that Alexander is a part of FYRM historic pride too - there is nothing wrong with that! Many celts fought for Alexander and considered him as their king so they too can claim some pride on behalf of Alexander - it just depends on the way you look at things!:san_angry:
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
ADMIN !
Close this thread !
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Originally Posted by Astibus
...I didnt know insulting people was considered humour.....with friends like you...who needs enemies...
Yep, I agree, who needs enemies? As for insults, they should only hurt if they are true.
I have ancestors who were Jews, Irish (Green, Orange, White, all colours), English, American, Portuguese. My family has married Japanese, Palestinian, Mauritius, in fact half the united nations.
I'd be proud if I had a relative from Skopje, or Pella, or Istanbul: I probably do but I can't prove it.
If I got thin skinned and wanted to fight everyone who talked about "this race" or "that religion" or "the other nationality" I'd be at war with myself.
I don't have time to fight every one that wants to kill my family for being Islamic, Jewish, Catholic, Presbyterian, Buddhist or Athiest (Church of Ireland). I could get upset about Hiroshima, Pearl Harbour, the Armenian genocide, Gallipoli, the 4th Crusade but then I'd have really bad digestion.
I consider all sides my family and it upsets me when they fight.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Maksimus....FALA.
Cyclops...
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As for insults, they should only hurt if they are true.
Calling Macedonia FYROM IS AN INSULT.Calling the people FYROMIANS is an insult....it goes against everything the UN is supposed to stand for....i dont refer to Greece as the Former Ottoman Province Of Morea,.It is true that we were once a part of Yugoslavia,but that nation is gone,Croatia isnt FYROC,Serbia isnt FYROS,Bosnia isnt FYROB etc...If the Greeks had a problem with Macedonia they shouldve brought the issue up when it was a part of Yugoslavia,only when the nation was weak and defenseless did they pounce.
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I have ancestors who were Jews, Irish (Green, Orange, White, all colours), English, American, Portuguese. My family has married Japanese, Palestinian, Mauritius, in fact half the united nations.
I have never denied the fact that Macedonia is a multicultural region,i know that it(like every nation in the Balkans and the world for that matter) is a mixture of many peoples and cultures.Im not here to promote a chauvinistic Macedonian agenda...no jingoism from me....im simply here to say that we have the right to self determination like all peoples...and if our claims are baseless then so are everyone elses.
Hellene...
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No matter how much support you get from Soros and his kin, no matter how much money the Zionists push behind you...
YOU WILL NEVER SEE THE AEGEAN. KIPCHAKS.
TAKE A LOOK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE:)))ITS THE ZIONISTS:)))LE LE....ti da ne si drogiran?You forgot to throw Tito in the mix.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Hellene...
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Its so pathetic how you Kipchaks sing songs how you gonna "liberate" "Egeiska Matsedonja"
We call it MAKEDONIJA....not MATSEDONJA.
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Did you see any sea on the Volga plains? Nope? Thats may be why you want to get into the Aegean so much...
The Volga empties into the Caspian Sea...if your theory is correct,we wouldve settled there and not taken our 'Kipchak' asses into the Balkans.:)
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And your money with Thessalonikian white tower on it? Are you still dreaming?
Nope,im wide awake....and that money was never printed.How about yourself?Still dreaming of the 'Megale" idea?
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And your sad little game with name changing and history forgery..."Alexandar"? "Matsedonje"? "Solun"
Name changing?Tell me who changed names?
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm
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And lastly: Are you getting in NATO? No? EU? No? Still starving?
Damn man,youre hilarious,i hope you have a happy and full life without having anyone kick you while youre down.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
I considered closing this one as soon as it was started.
I wasn't following this thread, but due to it being reported I'm going to close it. Skimming over the last few posts it seems a good idea.
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Re: Alexander-an Albanian?
Further, it's good evidence that any threads such as this should be closed as soon as they are started up. They all end this way.
