Representative Democracy [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

Right at the end just like I said when I questioned him

Prove that me questioning him isn't reversing myself

Oh you can't that's right, because you're too busy stuck in your own biased perspective

Monstrman 2 Renata 0

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:) You're fun.

I'll check up on it when I'm ready to do work.

Anyway I was in the middle of isoing GH so I'm gonna keep doing that

Have fun with endless posts by Monstrbro everybody else

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Originally Posted by Renata

:) You're fun.

I'll check up on it when I'm ready to do work.

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I am nothing if not a monstrman

<3

If GH if scum he's done a really good job of not really connecting himself to choxorn in a damning way

Doesn't seem like he's added much to the thread

Overall I lean wolf still, but there was ONE villagery post he had. I hope the one posters make more meaningful posts today

And now I wait until more people show up

Glgl glgl

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.



So you have cop views on all these players do you? I assume otherwise how could you be hard clearing them? Just because they voted scum? Ever heard of bussing?

Unless there are confirmed results that clear someone noone is lock clear. They might be consensus town. they might seem super town but they are not CLEARED.

I dont trust you. I think your scum. And if i can get you lynched and then you do flip scum im going hunting in the people you just hard cleared cause theres almost bound to be 1 scum in there.



Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...

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So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

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Originally Posted by dicetosser1

So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

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Because at the end of the day cuth would have been lynched if it was true

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Originally Posted by dicetosser1

So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

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it was a 3-way tie, which would have been impossible if visor was a doublevoter

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Originally Posted by Zack

it was a 3-way tie, which would have been impossible if visor was a doublevoter

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^^ sup zack

Zack what do you think of montmorency?

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Originally Posted by dicetosser1

So any chance of you ever getting out of this tunnel?

Also the Red. We have now been told that visor is in fact not a DV by visor. Id like to know how YOU knew here BEFORE he said he lied, that his DV wasnt used.

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I'm not going to respond to your (bad) comment, but I will respond to this:

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Unless there are confirmed results that clear someone noone is lock clear. They might be consensus town. they might seem super town but they are not CLEARED.

I dont trust you. I think your scum. And if i can get you lynched and then you do flip scum im going hunting in the people you just hard cleared cause theres almost bound to be 1 scum in there.

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The only thing that genuinely hard-clears is a result from the host. Short of that, those people are CLEAR. You do not get clearer than this while living. Come off it.

@dicetosser1

What's your read of Schema?

@Schema what do you think of Winston?

@Renata

Can you remind me why you're clearing Winston?

I mean, if I'm wrong in my suspicion of him I want to know why

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.

Let's talk about the Choxorn affair in its sequence:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Early game vote for Zack.



Later entry, with town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH, expressing agreement with Zack on subject of role claims.



Final post for the time, a comment on Jabbz' posting.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Renata makes her negative assessment of Choxorn's entry (835).

Immediately after, Visor joins in condemning the Choxorn post.



A few minutes later, he posts a comprehensive reads/leans list, marking Renata as lock town for her drawing attention to Choxorn, and making his own read on Choxorn as "wolfy". He puts Choxorn as lynch candidate above only Cuthilius and El Barto. One of his reads is a frivolous comment on Riedquat.



Then Visor makes an addendum to his reads post, for little value. With Riedquat having only one post at the time, there was no point in speaking like this of him, giving leans. "Possibly town" on a hunch???

"Need a few flips" to feel comfortable with reads is unimpressive in itself, all the more so when he had no problem with discomfort throughout the day or immediately prior to this post.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes remarks that Renata is trending up for her Choxorn case.

Winston finds Renata's flow towny. Winston responds to one of Choxorn's posts with a complaint.



Jabbz responds to Choxorn's lament on textwalls, sticking to his disappointment with Zack.



Cass' notes on Choxorn's main post~.



Monstrbro thinks Renata is town.



Monstrbro comments on Cuth-Chox. Choxorn evaluated overall as barely villagery.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes votes Choxorn.

Sooh's attack on atheotes gets well underway. This casts a small shadow over her. Renata, Zack, and others defend atheotes. Cuthilius is willing to vote Renata for rep over DP101 as more reliable or robust (999).

Cuthilius finds Renata's reads on Monstrbro towny (991).

Schema sees Renata trending up and acknowledges Choxorn's posts, asks for meta on him.



Schema takes full scum lean on Visor.



Cuth speculates on how scumChox votes. Switches back to voting Sooh shortly after.



DP comes in to put himself up for the Rep position and votes Choxorn (1025)

Sooh finally votes atheotes after this, looks to win the position of District Rep (1047).

Schema likes Sooh and doesn't like Atheotes.



Schema votes Renata for rep (1123).

On page 39, Bsmith changes rep vote to Visor ("to test double vote") and Sooh changes rep vote to Zack.

Atheotes petitions Cass on the lynch.



Sooh hardclaims Watcher (1170).

Chox substantively closes the day by showing up EOD to vote Al Sipsclar, who a bit earlier appeared to make ritual-vote on BSmith and said little else (1175).

All of this looks clearing for DP, Cass, and Renata, and overwhelming in favor of Atheotes on top of previous behavior. But rather than assessing others in relation to them, right now the focus is on how Visor relates to it.


Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Feel bad about Sooh taking the hit and from what it looks like not having a good experience with this game, but in terms of the outcome that's a trade I'm pretty happy with.

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THIS i dont like. the first bit feels fake. The last bit has me thinking that its true. For scum.

sorry i dont know why that big quote was still there

What?

The last 700-odd posts before last Day ended I didn't read. So vote: El Barto, pre-emptively, and I'll attempt to read the 150-odd posts from today.

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

Because at the end of the day cuth would have been lynched if it was true

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Originally Posted by Zack

it was a 3-way tie, which would have been impossible if visor was a doublevoter

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Are either of you named montmorency? No? Then how about you let people answer for themselves in future.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

I'm not going to respond to your (bad) comment, but I will respond to this:



The only thing that genuinely hard-clears is a result from the host. Short of that, those people are CLEAR. You do not get clearer than this while living. Come off it.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Why shouldn't hard-cleared DP stay as Rep, Schema?

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See this quote just above? thats the SECOND time your pushing for them to be HARD CLEARED. Your pushing it hard. So dont give me that come off it bs. Im pages behind how many more times am i going to find you pushing this as i catch up?

Also they are NOT clear any of them could have been bussing a partner for cred or have you never heard of that being done? They may be MORE LIKELY to be town but that is not CLEAR. get it?

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Originally Posted by El Barto

The last 700-odd posts before last Day ended I didn't read. So vote: El Barto, pre-emptively, and I'll attempt to read the 150-odd posts from today.

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A lot of them were me

Hello friend, I await your reads because clearing or condemning your slot is of utmost importance!*

*

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA

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Originally Posted by dicetosser1

Are either of you named montmorency? No? Then how about you let people answer for themselves in future.








See this quote just above? thats the SECOND time your pushing for them to be HARD CLEARED. Your pushing it hard. So dont give me that come off it bs. Im pages behind how many more times am i going to find you pushing this as i catch up?

Also they are NOT clear any of them could have been bussing a partner for cred or have you never heard of that being done? They may be MORE LIKELY to be town but that is not CLEAR. get it?

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String dicetosser1;
dicetosser1 = "villager";

I'd have coded it better but I'm lazy

Dice town, Monty lean town, Zack lean mafia.

OK, I'm quoting six because that odd feature where you are sent to the compose message page whenever you enqueue your sixth post has kicked in again.

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Originally Posted by Renata

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Originally Posted by Zack

there are 3 people in this game who matter and i'm not one of them

you can call me a butthurt loser but i don't care

i'm not going to feel bad about anything

my thoughts are mostly unchanged from d1 so look there if you want to pretend to care what i have to say

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This doesn't seem like you.

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tl;dr he's butthurt that he lost choxorn, the love of his life and habitual co-host of his?

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Originally Posted by Renata

You really think town can win this with only three people playing?

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Eventually the mafia can kill one of those people, so we'd better avoid that, hadn't we? :)

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Originally Posted by Cuthillius

introduce me to someone who isn't in favor of vanillas drawing kills

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

*raises hand*

Not the same thing as 'vanillas being killed', mind you. Most people are generally against false role-claims.

But I didn't have this scruple before, I could abandon it again. :shrug:

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Actually, yes, I was going to refer you to my post-game discussion with Visor in the last game, but someone quoted it already.

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

I kinda think El Barto is a villager? I'm not sure I have the stones to make that read confidently but his post about me when he said he wasn't sure about what it was that I did that pinged him pseudo pocketed me

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If I were pocketing you I'd be trying to win you over to my side. I was saying that you struck me as scummy, man.

btw yes most of what I read is you and one or two other people with undistinguishable avatars posting at each other and refusing to consolidate. That puts me off.

@Monstr

What are you like as scum?

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Originally Posted by Winston Hughes

@Monstr

What are you like as scum?

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Quiet and solemn probably

Sometimes really angry

It can mirror my town game but ultimately as town I'm just so much more... open?

It's hard to judge your own scum game

I think Cass described it best when she said hard to motivate

I just don't like being scum

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Originally Posted by El Barto

OK, I'm quoting six because that odd feature where you are sent to the compose message page whenever you enqueue your sixth post has kicked in again.

tl;dr he's butthurt that he lost choxorn, the love of his life and habitual co-host of his?

Eventually the mafia can kill one of those people, so we'd better avoid that, hadn't we? :)


Actually, yes, I was going to refer you to my post-game discussion with Visor in the last game, but someone quoted it already.

If I were pocketing you I'd be trying to win you over to my side. I was saying that you struck me as scummy, man.

btw yes most of what I read is you and one or two other people with undistinguishable avatars posting at each other and refusing to consolidate. That puts me off.

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Villagers can pocket people too

I mean, is hard clearing a villager not just being in their pocket

Their villager pocket sure, but the idea is the same

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Okay yes technically pocketing is a scum term but I don't care I do what I want

Hm. I'm reminded of what you said about yourself when I asked Renata about how you play as scum in that you couldn't be quite as carefree

Bleh I still want to hear Renata answer my question anyway

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Originally Posted by Monstrbro

Hm. I'm reminded of what you said about yourself when I asked Renata about how you play as scum in that you couldn't be quite as carefree

Bleh I still want to hear Renata answer my question anyway

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This was @Winston btw