Representative Democracy [Concluded]

[Montmorency]

smh is an acronym that has become popular just recently

smhZack

it means "smoke mad herb"

[Zack]

vote me already you goddamn coward

don't make ultimatums you won't follow through on

[Winston Hughes]

I'm going to put myself forward for rep today, on the grounds that I will be around at eod to make sure Cass gets the final decision once again (and I promise to do this even if it means putting myself in the firing line).

Vote: Winston

This does not mean, however, that I won't be putting forth my own arguments. I'll be around on-and-off over the next 24 hours if anyone wishes to interact, but I'm mostly going to be reading and thinking, with a view to setting out some cases in the latter half of the day.

[Renata]

vote: Zack

Stop kicking the puppy.

And do something.

vote:Dp101

[Zack]

bite me renata

[Zack]

i had the most posts on d1 and i was completely ignored

so bite me

[Renata]

:(

I didn't ignore you but I did change my mind on Jabbz.

[Jabbz]

You are avoiding answering the real question here, which is why should we trust anything you say from this point on. Whether or not it makes it more likely you are mafia doesn't matter if I can't trust what you write to be true.

[Zack]

there are 3 people in this game who matter and i'm not one of them

you can call me a butthurt loser but i don't care

i'm not going to feel bad about anything

my thoughts are mostly unchanged from d1 so look there if you want to pretend to care what i have to say

[Renata]

there are 3 people in this game who matter and i'm not one of them

you can call me a butthurt loser but i don't care

i'm not going to feel bad about anything

my thoughts are mostly unchanged from d1 so look there if you want to pretend to care what i have to say

This doesn't seem like you.

[Zack]

This doesn't seem like you.

that means a lot to someone i haven't talked to in 5 years? lol

[Montmorency]

You are avoiding answering the real question here, which is why should we trust anything you say from this point on. Whether or not it makes it more likely you are mafia doesn't matter if I can't trust what you write to be true.

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

[Renata]

I mean, even if you're unhappy you're the only one reading Jabbz as scum, so what? Or the representative system, so what? You would't have gotten Jabbz lynched yesterday in a regular format anyway, and there's other scum in the sea. You really think town can win this with only three people playing? I know you don't, so what's going on?

Tell me your other reads, because I've forgotten and don't intend to do any actual work until tomorrow when I'm not entertaining a sick kid half the time.

[Montmorency]

that means a lot to someone i haven't talked to in 5 years? lol

Personality meld. Don't deny it.

[Renata]

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

Is there a reason you're not voting Cuthilius?

[Montmorency]

Is there a reason you're not voting Cuthilius?

Is there a reason I should be? I'm down with the lynch. Until someone else advances a topic I'm down to peevishness and com-posting.

[Zack]

You really think town can win this with only three people playing?

worked pretty well in pirate ship 2

[Jabbz]

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

Anyone else able to corroborate this? Not that I don't trust you Mont, just don't know you.
@Zack The idea that only three people matter here is absurd. I'm pretty sure no town makes their voting decision in a vacuum, or based only on their own reads. The only way your contributions wouldn't matter would be if you are town trying to spread the suspicion evenly in order to confuse things. Since I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated.

[Cuthillius]

voting the next person to use punctuation, doesn't help catching scum

fine by me

it is kinda passe

[Cuthillius]

vote: Zack

Stop kicking the puppy.

And do something.

vote:Dp101

i like you

[Renata]

Is there a reason I should be? I'm down with the lynch. Until someone else advances a topic I'm down to peevishness and com-posting.

Not voting Visor anymore, certain Visor/Cuth is one wolf, one villager, etc.

[Cuthillius]

By the by, Visor has come out elsewhere in favor of vanillas drawing kills. Plus, he like screwing around. Adds up.

It could of course be a straight WIFOM on his part but it's not a sure shot anymore.

introduce me to someone who isn't in favor of vanillas drawing kills

[Zack]

Anyone else able to corroborate this? Not that I don't trust you Mont, just don't know you.
@Zack The idea that only three people matter here is absurd. I'm pretty sure no town makes their voting decision in a vacuum, or based only on their own reads. The only way your contributions wouldn't matter would be if you are town trying to spread the suspicion evenly in order to confuse things. Since I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated.

really shocked you think this makes me look bad

SHOCKED

[Renata]

i like you

Oh god.

[Montmorency]

introduce me to someone who isn't in favor of vanillas drawing kills

*raises hand*

Not the same thing as 'vanillas being killed', mind you. Most people are generally against false role-claims.

But I didn't have this scruple before, I could abandon it again.

[Montmorency]

Not voting Visor anymore, certain Visor/Cuth is one wolf, one villager, etc.

Put me on record. Keep it on record. I will not deny or obscure it. However, I probably only officially lodge the vote if it looks like changing it is a real possibility, or for the ultimate daily requirement.

[Jabbz]

really shocked you think this makes me look bad

SHOCKED

Guilty conscience much mate?

I wasn't implying, insinuating, or making the argument that your actions made you look bad. Please not the "I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated."

I get that you have an issue with me bud, that's honestly fine. Until you can find a good argument as to why I should be lynched however, you could engage in the game and actively help, or I suppose you could act petulant and oppressed, then eat a lynch instead of letting us lynch scum. There are always multiple options.

[Zack]

Guilty conscience much mate?

I wasn't implying, insinuating, or making the argument that your actions made you look bad. Please not the "I'm not reading this as you are saying you're scum, your help would be appreciated."

I get that you have an issue with me bud, that's honestly fine. Until you can find a good argument as to why I should be lynched however, you could engage in the game and actively help, or I suppose you could act petulant and oppressed, then eat a lynch instead of letting us lynch scum. There are always multiple options.

I thought I was a wolf, but you're talking like you know I'm townie now.

[Monstrdude]

From yesterday's events we have hard-cleared Renata, Cass, DP101, and (nearly-so) atheotes. They are inarguably the towniest players now.

Let's talk about the Choxorn affair in its sequence:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Early game vote for Zack.



Later entry, with town reads on Renata, Cuth, and GH, expressing agreement with Zack on subject of role claims.



Final post for the time, a comment on Jabbz' posting.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Renata makes her negative assessment of Choxorn's entry (835).

Immediately after, Visor joins in condemning the Choxorn post.



A few minutes later, he posts a comprehensive reads/leans list, marking Renata as lock town for her drawing attention to Choxorn, and making his own read on Choxorn as "wolfy". He puts Choxorn as lynch candidate above only Cuthilius and El Barto. One of his reads is a frivolous comment on Riedquat.



Then Visor makes an addendum to his reads post, for little value. With Riedquat having only one post at the time, there was no point in speaking like this of him, giving leans. "Possibly town" on a hunch???

"Need a few flips" to feel comfortable with reads is unimpressive in itself, all the more so when he had no problem with discomfort throughout the day or immediately prior to this post.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes remarks that Renata is trending up for her Choxorn case.

Winston finds Renata's flow towny. Winston responds to one of Choxorn's posts with a complaint.



Jabbz responds to Choxorn's lament on textwalls, sticking to his disappointment with Zack.



Cass' notes on Choxorn's main post~.



Monstrbro thinks Renata is town.



Monstrbro comments on Cuth-Chox. Choxorn evaluated overall as barely villagery.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Atheotes votes Choxorn.

Sooh's attack on atheotes gets well underway. This casts a small shadow over her. Renata, Zack, and others defend atheotes. Cuthilius is willing to vote Renata for rep over DP101 as more reliable or robust (999).

Cuthilius finds Renata's reads on Monstrbro towny (991).

Schema sees Renata trending up and acknowledges Choxorn's posts, asks for meta on him.



Schema takes full scum lean on Visor.



Cuth speculates on how scumChox votes. Switches back to voting Sooh shortly after.



DP comes in to put himself up for the Rep position and votes Choxorn (1025)

Sooh finally votes atheotes after this, looks to win the position of District Rep (1047).

Schema likes Sooh and doesn't like Atheotes.



Schema votes Renata for rep (1123).

On page 39, Bsmith changes rep vote to Visor ("to test double vote") and Sooh changes rep vote to Zack.

Atheotes petitions Cass on the lynch.



Sooh hardclaims Watcher (1170).

Chox substantively closes the day by showing up EOD to vote Al Sipsclar, who a bit earlier appeared to make ritual-vote on BSmith and said little else (1175).

All of this looks clearing for DP, Cass, and Renata, and overwhelming in favor of Atheotes on top of previous behavior. But rather than assessing others in relation to them, right now the focus is on how Visor relates to it.


Visor's tone changes notably in his final activity of the day, which comes right after Renata opens the case on Choxorn. His claimed double-vote never manifests. Strikingly, he makes numerous pleas toward prospective Reps to vote Cuth with him. This is striking because even one (of the two other) reps voting with Visor would conceal any double vote effect should it exist, since 2-1 is indistinguishable on our part from 3-1: the result is the same. His calls for consolidation were just meant to erect a front that would give him a pass from putting up.


I'd also like to broach what I was hinting at earlier respecting the claim. Look here at Visor's comment just prior to Chox events that



This is in other words a statement that he would not use his power on D2, toward the end of avoiding a burnout. I think his statement reflects the broader mechanical truth that Pizza would never grant a player, town or Mafia, an unlimited double vote. It could conceivably be more than a one-shot, but at best it would have an alternate-day effect. Visor was laying ground to avert consequences from future inconsistencies, without admitting details of the power. Since Visor went inactive before EOD, and DP had not voted Choxorn yet, and District 1 was still up in the air between Renata, Cuth, and DP, there is no argument that Visor is cleared by virtue of not taking action to save Choxorn, who anyway was killed by tiebreaker ability.
One of Cuth or Visor must be scum, opposite alignment. Who Cuth is in turn sheds light on Sooh, since Cuth was one of the few to carry a renewed push against Sooh late in the day. There is also a technical scenario in which Visor and Cuth were furiously bussing, and Visor never planned to apply special powers to lynch him. However, most players do not like the strategy of intense bussing from D1, and regardless it does not lessen the need to lynch Visor.

EDIT: Sooh is town, as we now know. Pending...

This dude is always a villager

[Monstrdude]

'not use my power'

I don't have a power, I lied to get elected.

You'd all find some excuse not to vote me in so I forced yo her hand to do so.

Well done cass.

Monty/cuth look awful. Cuth progression on schema is literally bizarre, will show in a few hours.

I disagree 100% tho