Israel: Murdering scientists?

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

That looks somewhat flawed. Looking at one of the category scores, II Functioning of government, a country becomes more democratic if people "feel like" they're a democracy. The questions also appear to be either somewhat subjective or really technical. I think it could be much better if factors such as stability and well defined social conditions were added in.

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a bit like a political stability index:
http://www.pwc.com/extweb/service.ns...571d8005f0b12#
medium = israel
medium/low =
low = iran

or Eurasia Groups political risk index:
http://www.eurasiagroup.net/download...0Index%20(GPRI)

or a bit like the human development index?

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

israel = 24
iran = 84

regardless, anyone got a better democratic index..............................................................?

While Ahmedinejad hates Israel I think it's very implausible that he'd ever make the trade of destroying Israel for having Teheran reduced to ash in a heartbeat, and with the USA bombing the rest of Iran in oblivion afterwards. Being reactionary is not the same thing as being a suicidal fanatic. If Israel is unsure they can still enlarge their arsenal to the point where they can saturate Iran, that ought to do it.

Killing civilians is just a vile act befitting a rogue state, not a country claiming to be a modern democracy.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

a bit like a political stability index:
http://www.pwc.com/extweb/service.ns...571d8005f0b12#

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Something like that, but that has far more to do with economic status.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

While Ahmedinejad hates Israel I think it's very implausible that he'd ever make the trade of destroying Israel for having Teheran reduced to ash in a heartbeat, and with the USA bombing the rest of Iran in oblivion afterwards. Being reactionary is not the same thing as being a suicidal fanatic. If Israel is unsure they can still enlarge their arsenal to the point where they can saturate Iran, that ought to do it.

Killing civilians is just a vile act befitting a rogue state, not a country claiming to be a modern democracy.

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israel has a duty to its citizens to protect them from existential threats.

a tin-pot nut-case sat atop an unstable repressive regime with ballistic missiles and a nuclear weapons program is an existential threat.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

While Ahmedinejad hates Israel I think it's very implausible that he'd ever make the trade of destroying Israel for having Teheran reduced to ash in a heartbeat, and with the USA bombing the rest of Iran in oblivion afterwards. Being reactionary is not the same thing as being a suicidal fanatic. If Israel is unsure they can still enlarge their arsenal to the point where they can saturate Iran, that ought to do it.

Killing civilians is just a vile act befitting a rogue state, not a country claiming to be a modern democracy.

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idk if id classify them as civilians. i wouldnt classify the people working on the manhattan project as civilians. while they actually are by definition, they are working for the governemnt to acheive a military purpose.
we bombed the ball-bearing facilities where "civilians" were working on ball-bearings for panzers.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Completely. It was vital to Pres. Clinton to characterize the action as "terrorism" so that it could be pursued/addressed as a criminal action by individuals and not as an act of war. I disagree completely with that attitude. Regrettably, it only takes one side to "declare" a war. Refusing to deal with military aggression as such is inaccurate at best.

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Agreed

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I never said I wouldn't have a problem with it. I said it wasn't terrorism. I actually dislike a lot of the stuff that gets done. I'm an old-fashioned enough type to wish they'd declare war and deal with it on the up-and-up, though I am well aware that it won't happen. Nobody declares war anymore, they just shoot and spin it in the media after shooting.

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These kind of things have been going on forever though. All out war isn't always your best option. I would argue that killing scientists is an act of terrorism. I would be scared if tommorow I found my chem professor killed by Costa Ricans

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All too often. I prefer Locke's approach to the Social Contract, though anyone who dismisses Hobbes outright is missing the boat.

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The one who sees thing from afar can always afford to be an idealist.

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Originally Posted by lenin96

So it was necessary for all of those thousands of inoccent people had to die (:skull:) for America?

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The necessity of Hiroshima has been debated in the Monastery.

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Under Bush America seemed like a fudamentalist regime, and I would certainly not trust the one of the biggest inoccent killers in the world to have nuclear weopns.

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I think Lenin has killed more than Bush. And a fundamentalist regime?

:laugh4:

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And I assume America doesn't have a big difference between the upper and lower class.

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Which is an irrelevant statement whether it is true or not.

EDIT:

There are are two beautiful equations we must consider:

Iran = Not A Democracy
America = A Democracy

There are are two beautiful equations we must consider:

Iran = Not A Democracy
America = A Democracy

If only it were so simple, its not an on off switch. Iran has a partail democracy and whilst not great its a damn sight better than anything we installed in the region

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

If only it were so simple, its not an on off switch. Iran has a partail democracy and whilst not great its a damn sight better than anything we installed in the region

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Refer to Furunculus' post. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Refer to Furunculus' post. :bow:

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Circular arguments leading back to the causes do not provide any new type of insight.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Circular arguments leading back to the causes do not provide any new type of insight.

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It isn't a circular argument. I'm referring to his post containing the comparison of democracies - America is one, Iran is not. End.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Refer to Furunculus' post. :bow:

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Refer to Crossloper's post. :bow:

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Circular arguments leading back to the causes do not provide any new type of insight.

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Refer to Crossloper's post. :bow:

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individuals that blindly ignore evidence that does not suit their argument rarely add anything of worth to a debate.

Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
"I don't trust your country with the power it has, especially as it has the track record of being the most violent nation on the planet."

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

which is my country?

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i repeat; which is my country?

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

The necessity of Hiroshima has been debated in the Monastery.

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In this thread someone mentioned the killing of thousands, do I say nothing for over 170 000 people dead?

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

I think Lenin has killed more than Bush. And a fundamentalist regime?

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America has mudered hundreds and thousands of inoccent people, I have a better reason for dropping bombs on America than America had for Japan. Although I wouldn't drop nuclear weopons on America because I wouldn't kill so many millions of inoccent people, although I wouldn't be suprised if america would do that to other people.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Which is an irrelevant statement whether it is true or not.

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So all of those poor people are irrelavent? They're nothing? They deserve nothing?

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

There are are two beautiful equations we must consider:

Iran = Not A Democracy
America = A Democracy

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As a person who supports the U.S.S.R and Authoritarian-Socialism do you think I care about Democracy?

you really think that bush was worse than lenin or stalin?
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

wow

you really think that bush was worse than lenin or stalin?

In terms of political ability or intelligence ... ~;)

Though of course in terms of badness Stalin was far worse... i now less of Lenin...

well, Lenin96 was saying that bush was badder than lenin or stalin.
from what i know of lenin he purged russia of royalists, and stalin, everyone knows he murdered millions...

Yeah i now, was just the perfect oppurtunity for a cheap shot at Bush, don't get many now he's out of office....

ignore

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Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Though of course in terms of badness Stalin was far worse... i now less of Lenin...

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Very smart, very cynical

Errm, TBH i just thought i was being honest, Stalin is far worse than Bush and IDK much about Lenin, though i imagine bush would come off nicely compared to most leaders from around that time... no real hidden point i was trying to score... though i would never object to very smart as a description of myself...

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Originally Posted by lenin96

In this thread someone mentioned the killing of thousands, do I say nothing for over 170 000 people dead?



America has mudered hundreds and thousands of inoccent people, I have a better reason for dropping bombs on America than America had for Japan. Although I wouldn't drop nuclear weopons on America because I wouldn't kill so many millions of inoccent people, although I wouldn't be suprised if america would do that to other people.



So all of those poor people are irrelavent? They're nothing? They deserve nothing?



As a person who supports the U.S.S.R and Authoritarian-Socialism do you think I care about Democracy?

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God you're cute.

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

individuals that blindly ignore evidence that does not suit their argument rarely add anything of worth to a debate.

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The argument was not whether or not Iran is a democracy. Others here tried to make it so.

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Originally Posted by hooahguy

you really think that bush was worse than lenin or stalin?

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If you read my post you would see that I meant Lenin not Stalin.

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Originally Posted by lenin96

In this thread someone mentioned the killing of thousands, do I say nothing for over 170 000 people dead?

America has mudered hundreds and thousands of inoccent people, I have a better reason for dropping bombs on America than America had for Japan. Although I wouldn't drop nuclear weopons on America because I wouldn't kill so many millions of inoccent people, although I wouldn't be suprised if america would do that to other people.

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See SFTS's post... :dizzy2:

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So all of those poor people are irrelavent? They're nothing? They deserve nothing?

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It is completely irrelevant to the argument, and would require a new thread.

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As a person who supports the U.S.S.R and Authoritarian-Socialism do you think I care about Democracy?

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From this post I can see you have no idea what living under that sort of regime is like. In a few years and with a bit of research, I hope that you will figure it out. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

From this post I can see you have no idea what living under that sort of regime is like. In a few years and with a bit of research, I hope that you will figure it out.

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I would live under an authoritarian government (one that supports my ideology) because I should, not because I would like it or it would be nice.

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Originally Posted by lenin96

I would live under an authoritarian government (one that supports my ideology) because I should, not because I would like it or it would be nice.

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errr what? I cant be the only one that doesnt understand the reasoning behind this.

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Originally Posted by lenin96

I would live under an authoritarian government (one that supports my ideology) because I should, not because I would like it or it would be nice.

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:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by lenin96

I would live under an authoritarian government (one that supports my ideology) because I should, not because I would like it or it would be nice.

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when you try it, and a friend of the family is dumped on their family doorstep in a tabacco sack you may think differently.

what would really get you is the callous statement from the delivery 'agent' that if your children want an education you won't make a fuss about the event.