Conseil du Royaume

"I will also second Edict 1.11 .

In addition I believe ze issue wiz ze Dauphin's Amendment 1.2 is zat it "allows" any noble to declare war on be'alf of ze entire realm, therefore it is not purely ze power of ze King.

Zat, is by definition a delusion of power.

Zat is why if ze amendment is changed to reference everyzing BUT declarations of war, it would not cause zis delusion."

The last sentence is said with some hesitancy and immediately the young Duke checks some notes, finally he nods to himself that he has the details correct.

At this time a impressively beautiful page saunters into the Chamber and hands Alain note. He reads it carefully, then looking back at the messenger he double takes in awe at the stunning face before him. Motioning with a slow finger to come closer, he suddenly grabs the page and proceeds to plant an enormously loud long kiss.

The page blushes furiously nearly running from the chamber, but not quick enough to avoid a hard slap on a very firm round rump.

"It is good to be ze Duke sometimes!!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YLC

"Although I take no issue with the idea of what you are proposing Thierry de Rochefort, I would take issue with the fact that it allows a single nobleman, escorted by his bodyguards, to be followed by a series of some such bodyguards, who then assemble upon the siege of a Castle or City, and proceed to declare war and capture the settlement or die trying."

"What you propose is a loophole that can be exploited, and that is, both in spirit and in will, against the wishes of our King."

---

So, you would, for instance, take issue if me and my Duke would travel from Rennes to Paris together?

That's absurd!

Hugues nods at de Rochefort.

I'm afraid even the passage of a small amount of men through their lands may endanger the truce. The English are a touchy lot. (OOC: Even a bodyguard unit can cause a relations drop by crossing the border without military access.)

If needed the Seneschal could ask the English for permission to cross their territory, but I'm not sure how popular that would be with the King, the Conseil or in London.

Oh great.

So, how are the noblemen of House Bretagne supposed to go back home after this Conseil has ended?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andres

Oh great.

So, how are the noblemen of House Bretagne supposed to go back home after this Conseil has ended?

---

Gaetan raises an eyebrow in confusion.

"Thierry de Rochefort, I must ask - how did they get here in the first place? How did you? Did God himself take you from Rennes and drop you upon Paris safely? No, I think not, and what you propose does more harm then good."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YLC

Gaetan raises an eyebrow in confusion.

"Thierry de Rochefort, I must ask - how did they get here in the first place? How did you? Did God himself take you from Rennes and drop you upon Paris safely? No, I think not, and what you propose does more harm then good."

---

We got here by travelling. You know, you mount a horse and ride towards your destination.

The Edict 1.11, as interpreted by some nitpickers like Duke Hugues here, would forbid Duke de Rohan and his vassals to travel back to Rennes.

Hugues shakes his head.

I was thinking of proposing an Edict to build an adequate fleet to keep Bretagne connected to the rest of the Kingdom, but our only port is in Acquitaine.

The lack of any port facilities on the Atlantic is alarming. I hope either building a port or taking a city with one will be a priority for the Seneschal and the Dukes. I'm a bit landlocked at the moment myself so. . .

Though the King's drive on Bruges may resolve this eventually.

Worst comes to worst we could try to sneak a fleet around Spain.

OOC: Generally speaking in the PBMs, characters can usually make it to the Senate/Diet/Magnaura/Conseil meetings in person. The Edict only covers in game travel.

From my understanding Sieur de Rochefort, you are here under a laissez-passer from my cousin Guillaume which allows you and your retinue to come before this assembly and return peacefully to your fief (OOC : My IC explanation to what OK mentioned hereabove...:juggle2:)

I see no reason for my cousin to refuse another such laissez-passer should you require it, while we remain under a state of truce. But I do not think he would take kindly to you and your men marching under arms through what he thinks of as his territory. I know him to be a bit "territorial" and I think all our efforts would be for nothing if scores of French nobles went gallivanting through his lands.

So I will not change a word to my proposed Edict. If you want to be able to cross from Bretagne to any other point of France under arms, you should maybe ask our soon-to-be-appointed Seneschal to try and negociate a military access from my cousin.

As to the scribes' concerns, Hugues, I meant to have my son modify his Amendment not his Edict.

With all due respect, mon Roi, but your Edict doesn't make that distinction.

If we want to go from Paris to Rennes, then there's no other choice then to pass English lands. Your Edict forbids that, so doing so would be a violation of the Edict, as it is worded now.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: I know that OOC there's no problem to come to the Conseil in person, but it makes no sense IC, so Thierry will probably keep hammering on this. If the Edict passes, then I'll ask Zim to put my avatar in Paris as starting position. For RP'ing purposes, it just seems wrong to me to be able to "fly" to Paris every 10 years without it being considered a breach of the law IC :shrug:

You're welcome to remain in Paris, de Rochefort, if you fear the treachery of my cousin. I could have use of you in taking Bruges.

From there, you would be able to take ship to go back to Bretagne and hence, follow the letter of the law.

I will nevertheless change a few words to my Edict to make provisions for such situations as those you have pointed out.

Edict 1.11: No armies under French command (OOC : under the command of an ingame avatar or an ingame avatar) shall cross the borders into Norman (English) lands for the duration of the King's truce, which is to be ended only by direct declaration from the King. The Seneschal shall be required to immediately disband the armies of any general who violates this Edict.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: I do not see the problem, Andres. In either KotR or LotR, we had avatars crossinig lines upon lines of enemy provinces to be present in the Diet or Magnaura and this wothout causing the slightest concern, even though some were even under siege. But I can understand the dichotomy it creates but I've chosen to work around it.

Hugues rubs the bridge of his nose.

Well, perhaps what we need is a really tremendous catapult. Something that could fling Chevalier de Rochefort a great distance. . .for the purpose of transporting him over English lands of course.

Your Majesty, the Order will ride on Bruges in support of your attack. Some of us are mustering in Reims, but are in easy reach of Bruges. Whoever we elect as Captain will coordinate with you in the offensive.

[OOC: Tristan and the Order Captain should coordinate over attacking Bruges - simplest if the Order Captain just let's Tristan move our company, but could be done in other ways that they can work out IC or OOC.]

Thierry bows towards the King.

Thank you for addressing my concerns, mylord.

If my Duke allows it, I'd be honored to help you with capturing Bruges, be it to watch and learn under your command or as the commanding officer of your army; whatever suits you best.

Thierry then turns his head towards Duke de Champagne, a calm expression on his face and his eyes cold as ice.

Funny, Duke de Champagne, really funny.

Maybe one day I will give you the honor of being the first test subject of such a device. I'll try to make sure your body doesn't get reduced into a bloody pulp.

Hugues laughs.

I thought smashing tankards over the heads of unsuspecting men was more your style Chevalier.

Thierry smiles at de Champagne.

Only idiots don't watch their backs, Duke de Champagne.

Turning to Hugues.

"I told you before Duc de Champagne.

He bites, so apologies in advance."

In response to his sovereign's words, Gaspards rises to speak.

"Mon Roi, forgive mon lack of deference. It is a sore point with me to pay for lands which should be ours by right. It shall be a pleasure charging into the thick of a melee in your name. When the time comes, you will not find me lacking against le Anglais!"

I second Edict 1.11 also.
The kings word is law.

Gaetan's eye's narrow at Thierry's words.

"Only fools do not watch their tongues, de Rochefort"

Thierry stares back at Gaethan.

You should watch yours closely Gaethan, if you don't want to find it on your plate for diner.

Thierry looks at the King and then stares back at Gaethan.

But maybe we should continue our discussion about extravagant gastronomy another time.

Prince Louis bows his head before the King's advice and issues his amendment so changed:

Amendment 1.2 The nation of France does not acknowledge the authority or existence of heathen nations. As such no diplomatic agreements of any kind are permitted with Muslim factions, and nobles shall have the right to petition the King for a declaration of war at any provocation from the heathens, most especially including the tresspass of agents or armies onto French soil.

I also second edict 1.11 (As altered).

I see that the matter of de Neufville's nonsesnse has been resolved to the King's evident satisfaction, and so I withdraw my complaint. Be warned though (The Prince pauses to glare at Gaspard and Beretin as his voices hardens) that further abridgements of propriety will not be met so lightly for my part. We are not a sty full of squabbling pigs but a noble body, and it is our obligation to observe the natural chain of authority. History is littered with states which failed due to rebelliousness and a lack of respect for authority. The Frankish people do not deserve to be allowed to fall into such vile ignominy.

I will not allow it! No matter the cost.

As soon as he returns to his seat the Prince's face clears of anger, however, and on seeing Duke de Rohan's thwacking of the page's bottom he gives the man an appreciative nod.

:egypt:

I second Amendment 1.2

Smiling cheekily at the Dauphin, Alain mouths the words:

"All my page boy's are actually wenches."

Quickly straightening his face and standing.

"I second Amendment 1.2!!"

Sitting back down he slaps Medoc on the nose for no apparent reason, the great hound simply ignores his master and stares at the rump of the departing pageboy, his tongue hanging a little further out of his mouth than normal.

A man stands up from the benches at the sides

I second Amendment 1.2, he shouts and then promptly sits down again.

Though it is not neccessary, I will also second Amendment 1.2

Philippe gives a brief nod to his son, full of respect.

Your majesty, though I agree with the principle of Edict 1.11, it seems to me that under it's present wording nobles would be forbidden from crossing into Norman lands, even if the Seneschal were to obtain permission from William the Bastard. Is that your will, my King?

Why, Duke Raymond but you are right !!! Though I'm not sure Guillaume would grant us passage through his lands, I can certainly provide for such a situation in the law.

What I do not want, as I've made already clear, is to see French nobles use this as a means to provoke the English and lead us in a war we cannot afford to lead at this point.

But, your point is a valid one, Raymond.

Hence, I propose the following :

Addendum to Edict 1.11 : Said edict will be suspended if the Seneschal successfully negociates military access or an alliance with England , and while that agreement lasts.

An ink stained scribe groggily comes into the Conseil and distrubutes the revised list of Legislation.

*Edict 1.1: No recruitment of any kind will be allowed in towns or castles that do not have at least a small church or chapel and either farms (OOC : lvl 1) or a grain exchange. However, if a foreign nation (OOC: "Rebels" do not qualify as "foreign nation")would declare war or would commit an act of war against the Royaume of France, the current Edict will become null and void and there will be no restrictions on recruitment until all wars with foreign nations are ended.
  Proposed: King Philippe
  Seconded: Prince Louis, Simon de Montpierre

*Edict 1.2: Brigandry is is not to be tolerated, and as such all rebel settlements bordering the nation of France are to be brought under her rule.
  Proposed: Prince Louis
  Seconded: Christophe de Perronne, King Philippe

*Edict 1.3: The Seneshal will recruit three clergymen to spread the faith in our regions and reduce the Heretics that plague our country.
  Proposed: Simon de Montpierre
  Seconded: Alexandre Le Sueur, Raynaud de Xaintrailles

Edict 1.4: Mercenary crossbowmen and spearmen will be recruited Immediately to aid Thomas de Saint-Amand in capturing Metz.
  Proposed: Bertin de Montsault
  Seconded:

*Edict 1.5: The Seneschal is instructed to begin assembling generals and men necessary for a Crusade with a target of Cordoba (This is a declaration of war against the Moors). By the end of his term, the Crusade is to have officially set out for its target. The Seneschal is to work toward granting the Pope’s approval for this Holy mission, but the Crusade will begin with or without his blessing. The King is to endeavor to evenly distribute captured Moorish settlements among the Houses.
  Proposed: Raynaud de Xaintrailles
  Seconded: Prince Louis, Thierry de Rochefort

Edict 1.6: Should an army be sent to bring the Comte de Flandres back into the Regnum Francorum, it must be lead by a Burgundian.
  Proposed: Gaspard de Neufville
  Seconded:

*Edict 1.7: At least one diplomat will be recruited and sent to Spain and Portugal to negociate an alliance and military access.
  Proposed: King Philippe
  Seconded: Raymond de Provence, Simon de Montpierre

Edict 1.8: The Kingdom of France shall immediately secure an alliance with the Kingdom of Scotland. A diplomat shall be hired immediately to secure this alliance. The diplomat shall remained in [adjacent] the Scottish capital for perpetuity.
*Edict 1.8.1: The Kingdom of France shall immediately secure an alliance with the Kingdom of Scotland. A diplomat shall be hired immediately to secure this alliance. The diplomat will remain, at most, one season's ride away from the Scottish capital.
  Proposed: Gontran de Linars
  Seconded: Raynaud de Xaintrailles, Christophe Perronne

Edict 1.9: No land may be purchased off the English for the duration of this Seneschal's term.
  Proposed: Gaspard de Neufville
  Seconded:

*Edict 1.10: The Seneschal will strive to buy Angers from the English during his term and at the earliest opportunity. The Princess Constance may be sent to parlay with the English but no later than three seasons (OOC 3 turns) when she will make her way to Rome. If no accord has been reached then, a diplomat will be recruited for that purpose. This edict will take precedence over Edicts 1.7 and 1.8. Once Angers is bought, the diplomat will either be sent south or north according to Edicts 1.7 or 1.8.
  Proposed: King Philippe
  Seconded: Hugues de Champagne, Prince Louis

Edict 1.11: No armies under French command (OOC : under the command of an ingame avatar) shall cross the borders into Norman (English) lands for the duration of the King's truce, which is to be ended only by direct declaration from the King. The Seneschal shall be required to immediately disband the armies of any general who violates this Edict.
Edict 1.11.1: No armies under French command (OOC : under the command of an ingame avatar or an ingame avatar) shall cross the borders into Norman (English) lands for the duration of the King's truce, which is to be ended only by direct declaration from the King. The Seneschal shall be required to immediately disband the armies of any general who violates this Edict.
*Edict 1.11.2: No armies under French command (OOC : under the command of an ingame avatar or an ingame avatar) shall cross the borders into Norman (English) lands for the duration of the King's truce, which is to be ended only by direct declaration from the King. The Seneschal shall be required to immediately disband the armies of any general who violates this Edict. Said edict will be suspended if the Seneschal successfully negociates military access or an alliance with England , and while that agreement lasts.
  Proposed: King Philippe
  Seconded: Hugues de Champagne, Alain de Rohan

*Amendment 1.1: The maximum number of priests available at any time will have to be recruited by the appointed Seneschal at the time, provided enough funds are available. That recruitment shall be done prior to any other recruitment. This amendment can be temporarily suspended if all French settlements (home territory or conquests) are above 90% Catholic.
  Proposed: King Philippe
  Seconded: Raymond de Provence, Hermant Mauvoisin

Amendment 1.2: The nation of France does not acknowledge the authority or existence of heathen nations. As such no diplomatic agreements of any kind are permitted with Muslim factions, and no official declaration of war is necessary before attacking a Muslim faction's armies, fleets, or cities.
*Amendment 1.2.1: The nation of France does not acknowledge the authority or existence of heathen nations. As such no diplomatic agreements of any kind are permitted with Muslim factions, and nobles shall have the right to petition the King for a declaration of war at any provocation from the heathens, most especially including the tresspass of agents or armies onto French soil.
  Proposed: Prince Louis
  Seconded: Raynaud de Xaintrailles, Christophe Perrone

The King makes his entry into the Conseil chambers.

"Sa majesté le Roi !!" cries the Herald.

Salutation, mes seigneurs

I wish to congratulate Duc Alain de Rohan for his election to the position of Senechal.

I'm sure the Kingdom will be well led in the seasons to come under such a guidance.

I hope Duc Raymond is not too disappointed. This election was not a judgment on his abilities but simply a statement of the collective will of the majority of your peers.

Lastly, I wish to you all the best of luck in the endeavours of the next few years, which I think will see our swords get bloodied.

I'm glad that most of our proposed legislation has been adopted.

As to the Crusade proposal, though it failed, I'm sure it was only because it has been proposed too early.

Let's discuss the matter with Sa Sainteté and bring him to support us in this.