Occupy Wall Street

Hee hee hee;

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Even in Zuccotti Park, greed is good.
Occupy Wall Street’s Finance Committee has nearly $500,000 in the bank, and donations continue to pour in -- but its reluctance to share the wealth with other protestErs is fraying tempers.
Some drummers -- incensed they got no money to replace or safeguard their drums after a midnight vandal destroyed their instruments Wednesday -- are threatening to splinter off.
“F--k Finance. I hope Mayor Bloomberg gets an injunction and demands to see the movement’s books. We need to know how much money we really have and where it’s going,” said a frustrated Bryan Smith, 45, who joined OWS in Lower Manhattan nearly three weeks ago from Los Angeles, where he works in TV production.

Smith is a member of the Comfort Working Group -- one of about 30 small collectives that have sprung up within OWS. The Comfort group is charged with finding out what basic necessities campers need, like thermal underwear, and then raising money by soliciting donations on the street.
“The other day, I took in $2,000. I kept $650 for my group, and gave the rest to Finance. Then I went to them with a request -- so many people need things, and they should not be going without basic comfort items -- and I was told to fill out paperwork. Paperwork! Are they the government now?” Smith fumed, even as he cajoled the passing crowd for more cash.

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Lemur - your OWS - Tea Party comparison sheet has a bias in "slogans" and "sings" By taking some of the worst possible choices from the tea party and some of the best choices for the OWS. Still amusing, though not as much as the pictorial comparison (though they should point out that a big military is big government to the tea partiers).

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Have the protests gotten a little unruly? Possibly, but if you watch this video you will see a good deal of NYC police swinging billy clubs, and OWS folks not fighting back. Most, it seems, crowded the police not to hurt them, but to get a better line of sight for them to document the melee, including one guy with an iPad. (Darn you OWS, with your hypocritical fixation on modern conveniences!)

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The OWS folks are actually marching in a big city, whereas the tea partiers don't. That's the essential difference.

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This would highlight the fact that law enforcement is demonstrably good at bullying peaceful protestors, but not so hot when facing anything like equal force.

I would hate to think this is the case.

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I would love if that were the case (that cops aren't so hot facing equal force). OWS needs to start open carrying, though in the constitutional wasteland that is NYC it isn't possible. We need more equal force.

CR

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Did you see the picture of the Jesus attacking the cop? I can't find it now but it was pretty funny.

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Here you go. https://i802.photobucket.com/albums/...cilXIX/OWS.gif

Meanwhile, in the Occupy Sydney shoot-off:

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Defiant Occupy Sydney activists say their movement will only get stronger after a dawn police raid ended their week-long protest in Sydney's CBD.

Police were accused of using excessive force in the 5am (AEDT) raid on Sunday in which police, including officers from the riot squad, cleared Martin Place of more than 100 protesters.

Forty people were arrested, with activists claiming they were manhandled off the site with little warning from police.

The group had been at Martin Place for over eight days as part of a global campaign against corporate greed.

"At 5am ... Sydney police joined Melbourne police in stamping out protests that are peacefully occurring in 1600 cities around the world," Occupy Sydney spokesman Tim Davis Frank told reporters in Sydney.

"This movement will only get stronger because of these illegitimate actions attempting to silence us."

Another Occupy Sydney spokesman, Mark Goudkamp, said he saw police throwing punches and protesters held on the ground with bloody noses, while his own wrist was held painfully behind his back.

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And here are scenes of police using excessive force in Melbourne:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrRZBVqioeU

There's no excessive force in that video. And LOL at the guy who says they "held his wrist painfully behind his back" :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

There's no excessive force in that video. And LOL at the guy who says they "held his wrist painfully behind his back" :laugh4:

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Have you ever had your wrist held behind your back in a martial arts (or what have you) grip? It's not just having a wrist held behind your back like a handcuff, it's forcing a person's body to comply through pain.

You notice how often, whenever US police are arresting someone, even non-resisting, they'll get them on the ground and put their knee on their neck? You don't think that, which is a pretty standard tactic, isn't painful?

The NYPD managed to arrest people a lot more peacefully off that bridge.

CR

Yes, you force them to hold their hand behind their back by making it painful for them to pull it away...it seems like the standard method that they are trained to do right? Because you can't tell how the person is going to react.

And no, the brooklyn bridge stuff is about the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...YVMwg8k#t=146s


Basically, these people nigh on deliberately get arrested and struggle for all their worth and act it up because in their little world being arrested by the police is proof that they are right.

@Sasaki: The implied threat is a bit more severe than “I'm going to hold you in a rather uncomfortable position for as long as you don't cooperate”.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

When democratic style governments work it is because the people are smart enough and educated enough to support the right things and elect the right people. The attitude people have towards protesting trashes that. It's people yelling simplistic ideas surrounded by a crowd that gives them assurance that their beliefs are good.

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You could read that argument to mean that all protests are farcical and counter-productive. I get that you disapprove of the OWS crowd (and with their hippie ways, that's an easy thing to do). I would be curious to hear what sorts of protests would meet with your approval. Certainly, the civil rights marches of the 1960s were almost as confused and multi-pronged as the Tea Party and OWS protests have been. People forget, since we canonized MLK Jr., that those protests were met with the same sort of dismissal and disbelief that today's protests receive.

(And no, I'm not saying that the Tea Party or OWS are in any moral sense the equivalent of the Civil Rights movement. Just saying that the arguments against them are rather similar in tone and content.)

Maybe the answer is that protestors who achieve results are exempt in hindsight? Like the old rhyme goes, "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

In other words, you're only a fractured, silly group of commie losers if you fail to achieve results. Or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

You could read that argument to mean that all protests are farcical and counter-productive. I get that you disapprove of the OWS crowd (and with their hippie ways, that's an easy thing to do). I would be curious to hear what sorts of protests would meet with your approval. Certainly, the civil rights marches of the 1960s were almost as confused and multi-pronged as the Tea Party and OWS protests have been. People forget, since we canonized MLK Jr., that those protests were met with the same sort of dismissal and disbelief that today's protests receive.

(And no, I'm not saying that the Tea Party or OWS are in any moral sense the equivalent of the Civil Rights movement. Just saying that the arguments against them are rather similar in tone and content.)

Maybe the answer is that protestors who achieve results are exempt in hindsight? Like the old rhyme goes, "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason."

In other words, you're only a fractured, silly group of commie losers if you fail to achieve results. Or something like that.

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Where is this movements MLK?

I would bet that the civil rights movement did a lot of dumb things (I remember some hazy details about it). But I don't know the history of it. So I can't say what the arguments against it were. Racist, I imagine. I agree that there's no moral equivalence and there's bunches of differences, so :shrug:

I suppose someone could approve of a protest on utilitarian grounds while still thinking poorly of the participants. But that's kind of cold.

I think I had some ramblings about the proper use of protesting earlier.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

what picture are you talking about?

and btw.....Nobody ***** with the Jesus!

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I really wish I could. I tried to upload it to FB from my phone but wasn't successful. It's this long haired hippy-guy with a beard attempting to get a piggy-back ride from a short, pudgy cop while another short pudgy cop freaks out.

Oops.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Have you ever had your wrist held behind your back in a martial arts (or what have you) grip? It's not just having a wrist held behind your back like a handcuff, it's forcing a person's body to comply through pain.

You notice how often, whenever US police are arresting someone, even non-resisting, they'll get them on the ground and put their knee on their neck? You don't think that, which is a pretty standard tactic, isn't painful?

The NYPD managed to arrest people a lot more peacefully off that bridge.

CR

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Rabbit: Pain compliance is how policing has worked for a while. Get a grip man.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Yes, you force them to hold their hand behind their back by making it painful for them to pull it away...it seems like the standard method that they are trained to do right? Because you can't tell how the person is going to react.

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They make it painful to be in that position, not to pull away.

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Rabbit: Pain compliance is how policing has worked for a while. Get a grip man.

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:inquisitive:

I don't think it's necessary against people who aren't resisting.

Edit: Police in New York state defy mayor and governor pressure to make arrests; http://www.timesunion.com/local/arti...#ixzz1biu6XD00

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Have you ever had your wrist held behind your back in a martial arts (or what have you) grip? It's not just having a wrist held behind your back like a handcuff, it's forcing a person's body to comply through pain.

You notice how often, whenever US police are arresting someone, even non-resisting, they'll get them on the ground and put their knee on their neck? You don't think that, which is a pretty standard tactic, isn't painful?

The NYPD managed to arrest people a lot more peacefully off that bridge.

CR

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The police are corrupt bastards, aren't they?

damn those police and restraining individuals with arm holds. evil sons of guns they are.

Ken Jennings, one of the 99%;
(linked due to huge resolution)
https://i.imgur.com/iRgy2.jpg

Also, I found this highly amusing - the OWS folks are having to deal with homeless folks and they don't want to;

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The Occupy Wall Street volunteer kitchen staff launched a “counter” revolution yesterday -- because they’re angry about working 18-hour days to provide food for “professional homeless” people and ex-cons masquerading as protesters.
For three days beginning tomorrow, the cooks will serve only brown rice and other spartan grub instead of the usual menu of organic chicken and vegetables, spaghetti bolognese, and roasted beet and sheep’s-milk-cheese salad.
They will also provide directions to local soup kitchens for the vagrants, criminals and other freeloaders who have been descending on Zuccotti Park in increasing numbers every day.

To show they mean business, the kitchen staff refused to serve any food for two hours yesterday in order to meet with organizers to air their grievances, sources said.
As the kitchen workers met with the “General Assembly’’ last night, about 300 demonstrators stormed from the park to Reade Street and Broadway, where they violently clashed with cops.

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Some protesters threatened that the high-end meals could be cut off completely if the vagrants and criminals don’t disperse.
Unhappiness with their unwelcome guests was apparent throughout the day.
“We need to limit the amount of food we’re putting out” to curb the influx of derelicts, said Rafael Moreno, a kitchen volunteer.
A security volunteer added that the cooks felt “overworked and underappreciated.”
Many of those being fed “are professional homeless people. They know what they’re doing,” said the guard at the food-storage area.
Today, a limited menu of sandwiches, chips and some hot food will be doled out -- so legitimate protesters will have a day to make arrangements for more upscale weekend meals.
Protesters got their first taste of the revolt within the revolt yesterday when the kitchen staff served only peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chips after their staff meeting.
Organizers took other steps to police the squatters, who they said were lured in from other parks with the promise of free meals.

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So they go to wall street and protest for even more government handouts (among other things), but they don't like giving handouts themselves.
:dizzy2:

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

So they go to wall street and protest for even more government handouts (among other things), but they don't like giving handouts themselves.
CR

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Because it's not the whole point of OWS is that the citizens were milked for all their money and they don't want to have the tab put on them. A problem they view as the result of an economic collapse due ot greedy bankers should be on their backs or they are hypocrites? rollie eyes indeed.

the snow is bad up here i hope they freeze while the 1% has a nice brandy by their fireplace.

I like how Micheal Fat POS Moore shows up haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbHCfJ-L8WQ

Menial tasks would become automated so that work would now be a choice and people could spend their days day dreaming? I think these idiots have spent waaay too much time day dreaming! What sort of fantasy are they living in?
So I guess this truly is all about a bunch of worthless, lazy liberals who don't want to pull their own weight. Surprise, surprise. (meanwhile they turn homeless people away from their kitchens)

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Meanwhile, in the Occupy Sydney shoot-off:


And here are scenes of police using excessive force in Melbourne:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrRZBVqioeU

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Excessive force? They are trying to arrest them and they are resisting. Resisting arrest is a crime you know. You have no choice in that situation but to use force to arrest them. Those police were very professional about everything. Those protesters were just making the biggest scene they could so people around the world who did not know better would see it and think "Oh noes! Tos evil polize!"
Did you see the woman acting like she was being raped? All they are doing is trying to make the police look bad.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Have you ever had your wrist held behind your back in a martial arts (or what have you) grip? It's not just having a wrist held behind your back like a handcuff, it's forcing a person's body to comply through pain.

You notice how often, whenever US police are arresting someone, even non-resisting, they'll get them on the ground and put their knee on their neck? You don't think that, which is a pretty standard tactic, isn't painful?

The NYPD managed to arrest people a lot more peacefully off that bridge.

CR

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lmao Crazed Rabbit, I have seen bouncers use compliance techniques gently on people and then have the person spin around and knock them in the face. These are people who are already physically resisting. Free speech is within the law, these people are committing a crime by trashing private property after they have been continuously told to leave. They are physically resisting officers! You think an officer should risk his safety to make their arrest more comfortable? Yes, a compliance technique involves pain, but it is not for the purpose of inflicting pain, it is for the purpose of the officer's safety. If you don't like it, don't be a scumbag and resist arrest.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

@Sasaki: The implied threat is a bit more severe than “I'm going to hold you in a rather uncomfortable position for as long as you don't cooperate”.

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What then is the purpose Tellos? Pray tell.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

They make it painful to be in that position, not to pull away.



:inquisitive:

I don't think it's necessary against people who aren't resisting.

Edit: Police in New York state defy mayor and governor pressure to make arrests; http://www.timesunion.com/local/arti...#ixzz1biu6XD00

CR

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They are resisting. That is why they were being arrested. They were being dragged away kicking and screaming! And even if someone seems calm, you cannot tell what they will do when you go to put the cuffs on. Better safe than sorry. I am sure a few seconds of avoidable (as in, hey, simply not breaking the law) discomfort is worth it to potentially save someone's life.

The problem with your whole argument Vuk is that the government should not be able to use force based on the reasoning that someone may resist and present a danger in the future.

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these people are committing a crime by trashing private property after they have been continuously told to leave.

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You don't know what you're talking about.

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They are resisting. That is why they were being arrested.

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So...why were they being arrested in the first place?

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Because it's not the whole point of OWS is that the citizens were milked for all their money and they don't want to have the tab put on them. A problem they view as the result of an economic collapse due ot greedy bankers should be on their backs or they are hypocrites? rollie eyes indeed.

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I got the impression many of them wanted more government handouts for the poor/middle class/students/whichever demographic they belonged to. I guess that's part of the whole movement's problems; what the heck are they protesting for?

In more serious news, I've been poking fun at the NYC OWS folks, but this seems seriously wrong;

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Wall Street protesters in Zuccotti Park battened down the hatches yesterday as the early October snow turned their tents into igloos, but the close quarters also made easy pickings for one predator.
A sex fiend barged into a woman’s tent and sexually assaulted her at around 6 a.m., said protesters, who chased him from the park.
“Pervert! Pervert! Get the :daisy: out!” said vigilante Occupiers, who never bothered to call the cops.
“They were shining flashlights in his face and yelling at him to leave,” said a woman who called herself Leslie, but refused to give her real name.
She said that weeks earlier another woman was raped.
“We don’t tell anyone,” she said. “We handle it internally. I said too much already.”

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If you're not going to call the cops at least give him a thrashing he won't forget.

Also, Arizona Neo-Nazis (google "JT Ready") at the Phoenix OWS with AR-15s to support ... the right to free speech, they say, of the OWS folks;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkM7cdMgcEc&feature=player_embedded

CR

"They are resisitng. That's why they are being arrested" may be one of the funniest things I've read all week

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

"They are resisitng. That's why they are being arrested" may be one of the funniest things I've read all week

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Come on Dump, I am all loaded up on meds. You know what I mean was they were resisting the order to peacefully vacate, and that is why they were being arrested.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

The problem with your whole argument Vuk is that the government should not be able to use force based on the reasoning that someone may resist and present a danger in the future.

Really? So when SWAT comes into a house where they suspect there may be armed hostiles, they cannot break in the door and deploy a flash grenade in case there is resistance? Instead they should be made to risk their lives without taking any precautions?

You don't know what you're talking about.

So when they camp out on someone else's property and leave it a mess (as that video showed), that is not trashing someone's property?

So...why were they being arrested in the first place?

Explained in previous post.

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As far as the OWS rapist, they certainly should be calling the police and protect those women instead of keeping it quiet to protect their message at the expense of those individuals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e84L-Xsrxmg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v​=gsUKObvjIFs

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Originally Posted by Vuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e84L-Xsrxmg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v​=gsUKObvjIFs

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That guy is the king of strawmen and stretching the truth. Not surprised you listen to him Vuk.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

That guy is the king of strawmen and stretching the truth. Not surprised you listen to him Vuk.

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lol, Crowder da man!
When I first saw his videos I could not believe that I found someone who thinks like me and has beliefs like me actually on TV! I don't agree with him on everything, and you need to keep in mind that he is an entertainer, but overall he is awesome. I am not surprised that you don't like him acin. ~;)

And so it turns out ACORN is behind a lot of this, under a clever new name. And paying "protesters" to be community organizers and grassroots protest leaders. Funny all these other blokes are missing work or not looking for work, making a sacrifice, yet the protest "leaders" are getting paid

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“They reminded us that we can get fired, sued, arrested for talking to the press,” the source [within the renamed ACORN group] said. “Then they went through the article point-by-point and said that the allegation that we pay people to protest isn’t true.”
“‘That’s the story that we’re sticking to,’” Westin said, according to the source.
The source said staffers at the meeting contested Westin’s denial:
“It was pretty funny. Jonathan told staff they don’t pay for protesters, but the people in the meeting who work there objected and said, ‘Wait, you pay us to go to the protests every day?’ Then Jonathan said ‘No, but that’s your job,’ and staffers were like, ‘Yeah, our job is to protest,’ and Westin said, ‘No your job is to fight for economic and social justice. We just send you to protest.’
“Staff said, ‘Yes, you pay us to carry signs.’ Then Jonathan says, ‘That’s your job.’ It went on like that back and forth for a while.”
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“And all the supplies—everything around the office that said ‘ACORN’ -- is now all in storage until this blows over,” the source said. “People literally have to cover up the cameras on the back of their cellphones in the office.”
“Now there’s no texting in the office, no phone calls in the office. They tell us to take our phone calls out into the waiting room where there’s an intercom, and then they turn on the intercom to hear our conversations. They’re installing new cameras and speakers around the building so they can hear everything.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/03...#ixzz1ciE91ssr

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:laugh4:

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Really? So when SWAT comes into a house where they suspect there may be armed hostiles, they cannot break in the door and deploy a flash grenade in case there is resistance? Instead they should be made to risk their lives without taking any precautions?

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That's what's wrong with a lot of policing nowadays - officers go to extreme measures to protect their own safety. Breaking down doors and THROWING GRENADES INTO HOMES that the police have no real clue where people are located inside, where kids are sleeping, or what's going on IS WRONG. Yeah, it can be a dangerous job, but that doesn't mean (or shouldn't mean, at least) that cops can violate people's rights to make it easier for themselves.

CR

This guy has an interesting comment:

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2011/...ng-poorer.html

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The Rich Get Poorer
Here is a fact that you might not have heard from the Occupy Wall Street crowd: The incomes at the top of the income distribution have fallen substantially over the past few years.

According to the most recent IRS data, between 2007 and 2009, the 99th percentile income (AGI, not inflation-adjusted) fell from $410,096 to $343,927. The 99.9th percentile income fell from $2,155,365 to $1,432,890. During the same period, median income fell from $32,879 to $32,396.

These recent numbers illustrate the broader phenomenon, discussed in this paper, that high-income households have riskier-than-average incomes.

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And some students are walking out on his class to show solidarity with the occupy people:

http://www.businessinsider.com/harva...vement-2011-11

:laugh4:



Also, it seems like the protests in oakland turned violent, predictably. Of course these idiot reporters stumble over themselves to say that "the occupy protests don't support the actions of this fringe group". Of course they support it. They don't agree with it but the literally support it by providing a cover, nothing could be more obvious.

I love how some folks will boycott people who state facts not to their liking.

Also -

Income inequality between people in the US is shrinking:
https://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7472/1112011b1.jpg

EDIT - I almost forgot - The Nation documents the plight of the moronic:

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A few years ago, Joe Therrien, a graduate of the NYC Teaching Fellows program, was working as a full-time drama teacher at a public elementary school in New York City. Frustrated by huge class sizes, sparse resources and a disorganized bureaucracy, he set off to the University of Connecticut to get an MFA in his passion—puppetry. Three years and $35,000 in student loans later, he emerged with degree in hand, and because puppeteers aren’t exactly in high demand, he went looking for work at his old school. The intervening years had been brutal to the city’s school budgets—down about 14 percent on average since 2007. A virtual hiring freeze has been in place since 2009 in most subject areas, arts included, and spending on art supplies in elementary schools crashed by 73 percent between 2006 and 2009. So even though Joe’s old principal was excited to have him back, she just couldn’t afford to hire a new full-time teacher. Instead, he’s working at his old school as a full-time “substitute”; he writes his own curriculum, holds regular classes and does everything a normal teacher does. “But sub pay is about 50 percent of a full-time salaried position,” he says, “so I’m working for half as much as I did four years ago, before grad school, and I don’t have health insurance…. It’s the best-paying job I could find.”

Like a lot of the young protesters who have flocked to Occupy Wall Street, Joe had thought that hard work and education would bring, if not class mobility, at least a measure of security (indeed, a master’s degree can boost a New York City teacher’s salary by $10,000 or more).

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Well guess what, Joe, you moron, maybe you shouldn't get $35k in loans for a degree in freaking puppetry. Maybe just getting education and a degree isn't enough, if neither has value in the real world because no one cares to pay that much for puppetry. Maybe you should have thought about that before spending all that money and time. You moron.

CR